The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[B-Lavaunit]

I can't envision a scenario where it would be necessary to hit a child. All that does is teach them that violence is an acceptable answer to wrongdoing. In my opinion, it is much better, the first time something happens, to explain to the child what it is that they have done wrong and why it is wrong. If they do it again, in knowledge of why it is wrong, then enforce consequences, but there is no reason why these have to be violent.

Also, it has been shown that punishment is the least effective means of reinforcing a behavior. Positive reinforcement is much more effective; so it is more effective to praise your children when they do something right than to punish them when they do something wrong, especially if that punishment is physical.

I tend to agree with the positive reinforcement, i really do, but unfortunately in my experience it can be overdone, with kids expecting a treat every time they aren't bad, which is different.

I know everyone is hating on "I was smacked and i am fine" but in all seriousness, for me, it made me respect my parents, not fear them, and as i think i said earlier i was smacked when needed for about 5 years and i have never ever started a fight, and fights i didn't start number in about 4, so i think, in my particular circumstance, the saying does apply.

Finally, as i have been asking others who have entered into this, do you have kid(s)?

 

[B-Lavaunit]

Well I was hit as a child (Still a child I guess though - 16) and it never did me any lasting harm, it just let me know I went TOO FAR, I could still test the boundaries, but if I went over it I would get hit, I still know now that if my mother gives me the death stare I went too far, and it does the same job, but as 8 years old? I wouldn't have even noticed that stare.

this, for sure

 

[sageoftruth]

I should probably stay out of this one, considering my disposition towards kids in general.

 

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

Why do you say that? After repeated warnings to not do something, are you just going to keep letting your kid continue to do whatever it is without consequences? I don't meaning punching your kid in the face, I mean a good spanking or a smack. If you do it once, you may never have to again, assuming your kids get the message.

How is that different from a punch in the face, you're still saying "do what I say or I'll hurt you" and in doing so teaching them that that's ok. In addition you won't just have to do it once, because you'd be showing them that jumping to anger and violence is the solution to any difficult problem so obviously their only going to get worse. It's exactly the same as caving in to your childes demands whenever they throw a tantrum, clearly sending the message that if they get angry people will do what they want. It's the opposite extreme and it's equally bad parenting.

 

[B-Lavaunit]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

Why do you say that? After repeated warnings to not do something, are you just going to keep letting your kid continue to do whatever it is without consequences? I don't meaning punching your kid in the face, I mean a good spanking or a smack. If you do it once, you may never have to again, assuming your kids get the message.

How is that different from a punch in the face, you're still saying "do what I say or I'll hurt you" and in doing so teaching them that that's ok. In addition you won't just have to do it once, because you'd be showing them that jumping to anger and violence is the solution to any difficult problem so obviously their only going to get worse. It's exactly the same as caving in to your childes demands whenever they throw a tantrum, clearly sending the message that if they get angry people will do what they want. It's the opposite extreme and it's equally bad parenting.

Why does there have to be anger involved, it seriously sounds like you are confusing a short smack with a full blown beating, the smack is designed to get their attention when nothing else will, and to show them that it is not ok to do whatever it is they are doing. For me anyway it isn't a rage thing, it is a this is stopping now thing.

But seriously dude, you are coming across as an elitist asshole, and i seriously doubt that you have kids you see regularly

 

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

I wonder if you have kids? I always find that people who are this anti smacking either were abused as a child (which you have the deepest sympathies from me, and i totally understand your position and why you stand for it), or they don't have kids but they have watched super nanny and they "know all there is to know" about parenting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, before you go ahead and call me, my parents, my grandparents and every other parent i know an asshole for giving their kids a sharp smack to stop bad and sometimes dangerous behavior, how many kids do you have?

I love this argument, "I'm a parent so, for self evident reasons that are obvious only to myself, I know everything about everything". I'm sorry but it doesn't fly with me. I don't have any kids and (in the interest of full disclosure)I don't even particularly like kids, and yet even I know that every single interaction you have with your child(verbal, physical or otherwise) is influencing the type of person that they are going to become, and if you respond to what you think is undesirable behavior with violence, you're going to teach them that that's ok. I shouldn't even need to say that's bad parenting, that's just being a bad human being. = /

 

[B-Lavaunit]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

I wonder if you have kids? I always find that people who are this anti smacking either were abused as a child (which you have the deepest sympathies from me, and i totally understand your position and why you stand for it), or they don't have kids but they have watched super nanny and they "know all there is to know" about parenting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, before you go ahead and call me, my parents, my grandparents and every other parent i know an asshole for giving their kids a sharp smack to stop bad and sometimes dangerous behavior, how many kids do you have?

I love this argument, "I'm a parent so, for self evident reasons that are obvious only to myself, I know everything about everything". I'm sorry but it doesn't fly with me. I don't have any kids and (in the interest of full disclosure)I don't even particularly like kids, and yet even I know that every single interaction you have with your child(verbal, physical or otherwise) is influencing the type of person that they are going to become, and if you respond to what you think is undesirable behavior with violence, you're going to teach them that that's ok. I shouldn't even need to say that's bad parenting, that's just being a bad human being. = /

So, by you logic, you should only ever be positive with your child, because any negative interactions could damage them, we all know how those entitled little shits turn out.

As for your "Im a parent etc" point, i think you will find that no parent thinks that, and the main reason anyone even uses that argument or one like it is because they are sick of childless assholes who think they can essentially come into their house and tell them how to do their job as a parent. And to them, it is like you walking into a university lecture and telling the professor that he is teaching wrong.

Ok then, ill accept your argument, if you can tell me how to stop a child from doing something when talking to them wont work, and remember, you cant hit them or touch them in a violent manner, or raise your voice. Remembering that you are dealing with a person who has absolutely no problem with yelling and using all forms of deception against you.

I will finish with this, there is absolutely no way to come out of an altercation with your kid feeling like the bigger person, they wont let you, they best you can hope for is feeling like you achieved something

 

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

Why do you say that? After repeated warnings to not do something, are you just going to keep letting your kid continue to do whatever it is without consequences? I don't meaning punching your kid in the face, I mean a good spanking or a smack. If you do it once, you may never have to again, assuming your kids get the message.

How is that different from a punch in the face, you're still saying "do what I say or I'll hurt you" and in doing so teaching them that that's ok. In addition you won't just have to do it once, because you'd be showing them that jumping to anger and violence is the solution to any difficult problem so obviously their only going to get worse. It's exactly the same as caving in to your childes demands whenever they throw a tantrum, clearly sending the message that if they get angry people will do what they want. It's the opposite extreme and it's equally bad parenting.

Why does there have to be anger involved, it seriously sounds like you are confusing a short smack with a full blown beating, the smack is designed to get their attention when nothing else will, and to show them that it is not ok to do whatever it is they are doing. For me anyway it isn't a rage thing, it is a this is stopping now thing.

But seriously dude, you are coming across as an elitist asshole, and i seriously doubt that you have kids you see regularly

How is a child supposed to know the difference? Also you say it isn't a rage thing and yet I can already see anger creeping into your dialog with me. For a start implying that I've at some point lost custody of children I don't even have.
You cant smack away your problems when you're dealing with adults, so why would you think you can do it when dealing with your kids? And why would you want to teach them that that's how an adult behaves?
Honestly I should show you the back of my hand.

 

[B-Lavaunit]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

Why do you say that? After repeated warnings to not do something, are you just going to keep letting your kid continue to do whatever it is without consequences? I don't meaning punching your kid in the face, I mean a good spanking or a smack. If you do it once, you may never have to again, assuming your kids get the message.

How is that different from a punch in the face, you're still saying "do what I say or I'll hurt you" and in doing so teaching them that that's ok. In addition you won't just have to do it once, because you'd be showing them that jumping to anger and violence is the solution to any difficult problem so obviously their only going to get worse. It's exactly the same as caving in to your childes demands whenever they throw a tantrum, clearly sending the message that if they get angry people will do what they want. It's the opposite extreme and it's equally bad parenting.

Why does there have to be anger involved, it seriously sounds like you are confusing a short smack with a full blown beating, the smack is designed to get their attention when nothing else will, and to show them that it is not ok to do whatever it is they are doing. For me anyway it isn't a rage thing, it is a this is stopping now thing.

But seriously dude, you are coming across as an elitist asshole, and i seriously doubt that you have kids you see regularly

How is a child supposed to know the difference? Also you say it isn't a rage thing and yet I can already see anger creeping into your dialog with me. For a start implying that I've at some point lost custody of children I don't even have.
You cant smack away your problems when you're dealing with adults, so why would you think you can do it when dealing with your kids? And why would you want to teach them that that's how an adult behaves?
Honestly I should show you the back of my hand.

Its not anger, it is frustration, which is possibly the same thing, but i am not angry at you, not even a little, but i am frustrated that you seem to know what not to do, but offer nothing in exchange, it is all well and good to say no that is wrong, but much harder to say, but here is the right way. And i can tell you why, because there is no right way. Yes, there is a wrong way...and perhaps smacking is a step in that direction...and it is a fear that i face with every day, but the main point of my argument was that there are much more wrong ways to raise children, and smacking when used correctly is very effective and in my experience not damaging.

Finally, the kids you dont see thing was not intended to come across in such an asshole manner, i was more suggesting that you either dont have kids or dont have much contact with them, as you have later attested to, so for that i apologise, i should have left that part out, or at least worded it in a way that actually conveyed my meaning.

Also i am assuming that last line was a crack comparing me smacking my child to you smacking me

EDIT: Sorry, i missed the question in your response, because, if you are using smacking as a tool, it should be well explained to the child why you did that, and apologies afterwards. On younger children this works well, once they get to an age where this no longer works, you stop, not go harder

 

[DSK-]

I got walloped when I deserved it, when there was no real alternative. It works when the child knows why it was told off and smacked.

 

[TheKruzdawg]

I remember getting spanked as a kid, although it was always a last resort. If I did something that deserved a spanking, such as stealing stuff from my siblings or talking back, I got it. I got not spanked with anything other than the hand, and it was never more than (forgive the pun) a handful of hits, maybe 3-4. I had been warned each time that I shouldn't do those things and I didn't listen. Never did it ever again. I don't resent my parents for it.

Those times were rare though, and it usually only took a small talk from my dad to get me to shape up. He was disappointed in my behavior, which was usually always worse than being yelled at.

If you set the expectations for your kids high and hold them to it, physical punishment will most likely not be necessary. Over time and as I grew older, my parents found different ways to punish me, such as taking away video games or not giving me $ to do things with my friends.

Overall, it's not the perfect punishment, but I don't think it is the horrible act that most people make it out to be. It is possible to take it too far, but if used under specific circumstances and as a last resort, I don't see a problem with it. I turned out just fine, but I don't plan on using it as the first response to anything.

 

[Kroxile]

I don't think OP has seen the youth today. If they got whipped like I did maybe they'd have some respect.

Its pretty sad that you can't walk down the road without running into kids who aren't even 10 years old yelling obscenities, throwing rocks, and generally being hoodlums all because their parents are too afraid to do something about it.

 

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

I wonder if you have kids? I always find that people who are this anti smacking either were abused as a child (which you have the deepest sympathies from me, and i totally understand your position and why you stand for it), or they don't have kids but they have watched super nanny and they "know all there is to know" about parenting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, before you go ahead and call me, my parents, my grandparents and every other parent i know an asshole for giving their kids a sharp smack to stop bad and sometimes dangerous behavior, how many kids do you have?

I love this argument, "I'm a parent so, for self evident reasons that are obvious only to myself, I know everything about everything". I'm sorry but it doesn't fly with me. I don't have any kids and (in the interest of full disclosure)I don't even particularly like kids, and yet even I know that every single interaction you have with your child(verbal, physical or otherwise) is influencing the type of person that they are going to become, and if you respond to what you think is undesirable behavior with violence, you're going to teach them that that's ok. I shouldn't even need to say that's bad parenting, that's just being a bad human being. = /

So, by you logic, you should only ever be positive with your child, because any negative interactions could damage them, we all know how those entitled little shits turn out.

As for your "Im a parent etc" point, i think you will find that no parent thinks that, and the main reason anyone even uses that argument or one like it is because they are sick of childless assholes who think they can essentially come into their house and tell them how to do their job as a parent. And to them, it is like you walking into a university lecture and telling the professor that he is teaching wrong.

Ok then, ill accept your argument, if you can tell me how to stop a child from doing something when talking to them wont work, and remember, you cant hit them or touch them in a violent manner, or raise your voice. Remembering that you are dealing with a person who has absolutely no problem with yelling and using all forms of deception against you.

I will finish with this, there is absolutely no way to come out of an altercation with your kid feeling like the bigger person, they wont let you, they best you can hope for is feeling like you achieved something

Nope that's almost as bad, letting your kids run amok without structure and giving in to them when the throw a tantrum will teach them the same bad lessons(i.e. get angry and people will do what you want) just in a different way. Believe it or not you actually need to find a balance...........what did you think being a parent would be easy?

Boo hoo, if they're doing their job badly, you're dam right i'm gonna tell them.
If a lecturer or teacher actually struck one of my hypothetical kids, I'd have him/her looking for a new job, if not in prison.

Ha, have you forgotten? I don't have kids it's your job to work to raise them properly. My partner's a primary school teacher, maybe you should ask her. Or maybe you should take a class, or do something to make yourself a better parent and a better person for the sake of your kids.
You're telling me it's difficult and i'm telling you that doesn't matter, if you're not willing to put the effort in for you children then what kind of a person are you?

 

[B-Lavaunit]

I am much to tired to google it now, i will tomorrow, but i am interested on the age and duration for the kids in these studies. Im not saying they are wrong, but does it suggest that one smack ever will cause confusion or teach them violence is ok. Also does it suggest that smacking children after a certain age is worse or what? I agree with talking to the child, but you cant treat a child like an adult, it is not fair to the child to expect them to hold up to adult standards, or to be able to engage as an adult, let them be kids and treat them like kids. I try respect with my 5 year old, and let me tell u, all it gets me is being ignored and a continuation of the bad behavior, even when i pick her up and sit her on my lap to try and explain what she is doing and why i dont want her to do it, all she wants to do is run away and keep doing it

Im not trying to say they are wrong, i am just much to tired to look through studies for these answers.

 

[jpoon]

... it sure as shit put the fear (respect) in me for my parents.

Beat your children, for the future!

I see a viscous cycle here. You conflate fear with respect as a child because your parents beat it into you, then if you gain power later in life you beat that same "respect" into others.

I hate this cycle, it causes so much suffering in the world.

So don't beat your kids, for the future!

break this tired old routine.

Well here's the thing, the routine you're thinking of never even started. I am just saying children need to be corrected and being a total pussy about it and not even spanking a kid is gonna end up with a child that runs amok, I know I would have. I have never beaten a child but I sure as shit will spank them, I have no qualms against that at all...they deserve it quite often.

There's no need to nerf the world.

 

[TheKruzdawg]

EDIT: Sorry, i missed the question in your response, because, if you are using smacking as a tool, it should be well explained to the child why you did that, and apologies afterwards. On younger children this works well, once they get to an age where this no longer works, you stop, not go harder

I completely agree with this and I think this is the most important point. The child has to be told why it is happening before you use any form of physical punishment. That's the way my parents did it, I ALWAYS knew why I was spanked. My parents always told me that they disliked my behavior, not me as a person.

 

[B-Lavaunit]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

I wonder if you have kids? I always find that people who are this anti smacking either were abused as a child (which you have the deepest sympathies from me, and i totally understand your position and why you stand for it), or they don't have kids but they have watched super nanny and they "know all there is to know" about parenting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, before you go ahead and call me, my parents, my grandparents and every other parent i know an asshole for giving their kids a sharp smack to stop bad and sometimes dangerous behavior, how many kids do you have?

I love this argument, "I'm a parent so, for self evident reasons that are obvious only to myself, I know everything about everything". I'm sorry but it doesn't fly with me. I don't have any kids and (in the interest of full disclosure)I don't even particularly like kids, and yet even I know that every single interaction you have with your child(verbal, physical or otherwise) is influencing the type of person that they are going to become, and if you respond to what you think is undesirable behavior with violence, you're going to teach them that that's ok. I shouldn't even need to say that's bad parenting, that's just being a bad human being. = /

So, by you logic, you should only ever be positive with your child, because any negative interactions could damage them, we all know how those entitled little shits turn out.

As for your "Im a parent etc" point, i think you will find that no parent thinks that, and the main reason anyone even uses that argument or one like it is because they are sick of childless assholes who think they can essentially come into their house and tell them how to do their job as a parent. And to them, it is like you walking into a university lecture and telling the professor that he is teaching wrong.

Ok then, ill accept your argument, if you can tell me how to stop a child from doing something when talking to them wont work, and remember, you cant hit them or touch them in a violent manner, or raise your voice. Remembering that you are dealing with a person who has absolutely no problem with yelling and using all forms of deception against you.

I will finish with this, there is absolutely no way to come out of an altercation with your kid feeling like the bigger person, they wont let you, they best you can hope for is feeling like you achieved something

Nope that's almost as bad, letting your kids run amok without structure and giving in to them when the throw a tantrum will teach them the same bad lessons(i.e. get angry and people will do what you want) just in a different way. Believe it or not you actually need to find a balance...........what did you think being a parent would be easy?

Boo hoo, if they're doing their job badly, you're dam right i'm gonna tell them.
If a lecturer or teacher actually struck one of my hypothetical kids, I'd have him/her looking for a new job, if not in prison.

Ha, have you forgotten? I don't have kids it's your job to work to raise them properly. My partner's a primary school teacher, maybe you should ask her. Or maybe you should take a class, or do something to make yourself a better parent and a better person for the sake of your kids.
You're telling me it's difficult and i'm telling you that doesn't matter, if you're not willing to put the effort in for you children then what kind of a person are you?

I have found a balance, i have a generally well behaved and respectful child, but all children have their bad days. And before i continue this line of thought i just had the shocking realisation that i am sitting here at 12am, trying to justify myself over the internet, and i am going to stop, as i have things to do.

I will however say this, in closing, absolute last thing in this particular dialog, i am a good person, i love my kid and i would do anything for her, and my parenting style is me doing my best. You dont have kids so you dont really have any idea what it is like, and for that i think you are missing out