The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

Why do you say that? After repeated warnings to not do something, are you just going to keep letting your kid continue to do whatever it is without consequences? I don't meaning punching your kid in the face, I mean a good spanking or a smack. If you do it once, you may never have to again, assuming your kids get the message.

How is that different from a punch in the face, you're still saying "do what I say or I'll hurt you" and in doing so teaching them that that's ok. In addition you won't just have to do it once, because you'd be showing them that jumping to anger and violence is the solution to any difficult problem so obviously their only going to get worse. It's exactly the same as caving in to your childes demands whenever they throw a tantrum, clearly sending the message that if they get angry people will do what they want. It's the opposite extreme and it's equally bad parenting.

Why does there have to be anger involved, it seriously sounds like you are confusing a short smack with a full blown beating, the smack is designed to get their attention when nothing else will, and to show them that it is not ok to do whatever it is they are doing. For me anyway it isn't a rage thing, it is a this is stopping now thing.

But seriously dude, you are coming across as an elitist asshole, and i seriously doubt that you have kids you see regularly

How is a child supposed to know the difference? Also you say it isn't a rage thing and yet I can already see anger creeping into your dialog with me. For a start implying that I've at some point lost custody of children I don't even have.
You cant smack away your problems when you're dealing with adults, so why would you think you can do it when dealing with your kids? And why would you want to teach them that that's how an adult behaves?
Honestly I should show you the back of my hand.

Its not anger, it is frustration, which is possibly the same thing, but i am not angry at you, not even a little, but i am frustrated that you seem to know what not to do, but offer nothing in exchange, it is all well and good to say no that is wrong, but much harder to say, but here is the right way. And i can tell you why, because there is no right way. Yes, there is a wrong way...and perhaps smacking is a step in that direction...and it is a fear that i face with every day, but the main point of my argument was that there are much more wrong ways to raise children, and smacking when used correctly is very effective and in my experience not damaging.

Finally, the kids you dont see thing was not intended to come across in such an asshole manner, i was more suggesting that you either dont have kids or dont have much contact with them, as you have later attested to, so for that i apologise, i should have left that part out, or at least worded it in a way that actually conveyed my meaning.

Also i am assuming that last line was a crack comparing me smacking my child to you smacking me

EDIT: Sorry, i missed the question in your response, because, if you are using smacking as a tool, it should be well explained to the child why you did that, and apologies afterwards. On younger children this works well, once they get to an age where this no longer works, you stop, not go harder

I accept your apology, but you must admit that if I (an adult)cant tell the difference between your frustration or anger or fear or whatever you're actually feeling are, then a developing mind cant be expected to make that distinction either.
I don't have the answers, i'm not a parent, and i'm not ready to be a parent, but i know that there are some definite don'ts and hitting your kids is one of them.

I hope you didn't interpret that as a treat, I was just trying to illustrate that me hitting you to make you see things my way would be backward and completely unacceptable, so doing the same to a child seems impossible to me.

 

[THEfog101]

Im going to say this, ***** if you may. Physical Punishment is a brilliant method of punishment, its worked for thousands of years up until now and now that there is all this new age "Dont smack your kids" crap, the younger generations are turning into little shits. I was physically punished as a child, i was a stubborn one and i honestly couldn't remember the amount of times i received the wooden spoon, broom, spatula, belt, sandal, welding glove, ladle, newspaper or simply good old flat hand. its simply, psychological punishments were of no deterrent to me.

Of course i had the juvenile delusions of "If you hit me you will never see me again!!!" as each kid does but 5 minutes afterwards i knew i had deserved it, my dad was physically punished as a kid and now he is a Qualified Industrial and Biochemical scientist, and he is one of the most reasonable people you will ever meet. I also turned out great, who else has ran an entire Computer engineering service department at the age of 17?

So many of my friends were not punished in this way as a child and now so many of them are Druggo's and alcoholics still leeching off their parents with no goal in life, all thanks to their parents saying "i dont hit my kids because it will scar them", never heard so much BS in my life.

once again there is a difference between discipline and abuse. You hit your kid across the ass because he/she bloody deserves it than you should feel proud of yourself for doing your kid some good and that he/she will reap the benefits of it when they are older, if you hit your kid because your in a bad mood then your a asshole and dont deserve kids.

 

[Russian_Assassin]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

My parents never touched me and I was never a spoiled little **** who thought he was invincible. I do not agree with this backwards notion you expressed in your post.

 

[Senaro]

I only ever earned the belt when I really did something terrible. However, my parents never really hurt me. Sure the belt stung a little, but I was always most upset that I had done something terrible enough for them to do something like that. It was more about emotional guilt, and it worked. Of course I'd never condone physically abusing a child, but receiving the belt was never physical abuse.

 

[rutger5000]

If I would ever be a single father I'll teach my child about respect at a very young age, and he/she will know when he/she is losing mine.
If I would raise a child with someone else, I'll using pinching as a physical punishment. That will only work until 6 years or so. But by then other punishments should be useable.
Using physical punishment is not such a signficant factor as many people claim though. If the rest is okay your child will turn out fine wetter you slap him or not.
I do truly condemp the act of hitting your child. Not because of the physical pain, but because hitting is an act of hate or anger. Not something you ought to do to your child.

 

[Arehexes]

There is a different between a fist to a childs face and a quick a swift thing switch to the legs. I don't think a parent should use brute force on a kid but a switch is more of a sting that last, it's impact is low but man that sting makes you remember.

 

[Vohn_exel]

I was spanked as a kid, usually with a belt. Now, my dad has Biploar and we didn't figure that out until later, but I probably only had about five spankings my entire life. It was the "ultimate" punishment when I or my brother refused to listen or heed warnings. I learned my lesson and obeyed and I don't hate my parents for it. I'll probably spank my kids if I have any and it's not considered a stoning offense.

That said, where you said you "wouldn't let your parents touch you," my mom would never have let me get away with that, lol. If I was in trouble, I was in trouble. I think I'd do the same with my kids. My mom probably wasn't the best mom growing up, but she definitely wasn't the worst. She was hard on me as a kid but it's made me tough and I'm glad for it.

 

[Ampersand]

Nope, hitting kids is never ok, it teaches them that using violence is an acceptable way of getting people to do what they want, in other words it turns them into ass holes just like the parent who's "disciplining" them in the first place.

I wonder if you have kids? I always find that people who are this anti smacking either were abused as a child (which you have the deepest sympathies from me, and i totally understand your position and why you stand for it), or they don't have kids but they have watched super nanny and they "know all there is to know" about parenting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, before you go ahead and call me, my parents, my grandparents and every other parent i know an asshole for giving their kids a sharp smack to stop bad and sometimes dangerous behavior, how many kids do you have?

I love this argument, "I'm a parent so, for self evident reasons that are obvious only to myself, I know everything about everything". I'm sorry but it doesn't fly with me. I don't have any kids and (in the interest of full disclosure)I don't even particularly like kids, and yet even I know that every single interaction you have with your child(verbal, physical or otherwise) is influencing the type of person that they are going to become, and if you respond to what you think is undesirable behavior with violence, you're going to teach them that that's ok. I shouldn't even need to say that's bad parenting, that's just being a bad human being. = /

So, by you logic, you should only ever be positive with your child, because any negative interactions could damage them, we all know how those entitled little shits turn out.

As for your "Im a parent etc" point, i think you will find that no parent thinks that, and the main reason anyone even uses that argument or one like it is because they are sick of childless assholes who think they can essentially come into their house and tell them how to do their job as a parent. And to them, it is like you walking into a university lecture and telling the professor that he is teaching wrong.

Ok then, ill accept your argument, if you can tell me how to stop a child from doing something when talking to them wont work, and remember, you cant hit them or touch them in a violent manner, or raise your voice. Remembering that you are dealing with a person who has absolutely no problem with yelling and using all forms of deception against you.

I will finish with this, there is absolutely no way to come out of an altercation with your kid feeling like the bigger person, they wont let you, they best you can hope for is feeling like you achieved something

Nope that's almost as bad, letting your kids run amok without structure and giving in to them when the throw a tantrum will teach them the same bad lessons(i.e. get angry and people will do what you want) just in a different way. Believe it or not you actually need to find a balance...........what did you think being a parent would be easy?

Boo hoo, if they're doing their job badly, you're dam right i'm gonna tell them.
If a lecturer or teacher actually struck one of my hypothetical kids, I'd have him/her looking for a new job, if not in prison.

Ha, have you forgotten? I don't have kids it's your job to work to raise them properly. My partner's a primary school teacher, maybe you should ask her. Or maybe you should take a class, or do something to make yourself a better parent and a better person for the sake of your kids.
You're telling me it's difficult and i'm telling you that doesn't matter, if you're not willing to put the effort in for you children then what kind of a person are you?

I have found a balance, i have a generally well behaved and respectful child, but all children have their bad days. And before i continue this line of thought i just had the shocking realisation that i am sitting here at 12am, trying to justify myself over the internet, and i am going to stop, as i have things to do.

I will however say this, in closing, absolute last thing in this particular dialog, i am a good person, i love my kid and i would do anything for her, and my parenting style is me doing my best. You dont have kids so you dont really have any idea what it is like, and for that i think you are missing out

Yeah i've got stuff to do too = /
I don't really think that either of us have anything more to say to each other but I hope you'll think about what we've talked about.
I'm sure there's some truth in your last line, however even though admittedly I don't like kids, I do love the little bastards for some reason, and if I ever had any of my own I wouldn't do my best, Id try to do the best of a far better man.

In addition speaking as a martial artist, when ever violence is used, to whatever end, it'll nearly always re-emerge in one negative way or another at some point.
So the next time you feel like taking off your belt, take a deep breath and see if there's anything else you could try first.

 

[Toasty Virus]

Beating your kids because your having a shit day? Fucking out of order.

Smacking your kids because they're SERIOUSLY misbehaving. Perfectly acceptable.

 

[Lilani]

My parents spanked me when I was a kid, and I'd like to thank them for it today because I have no idea how I might have turned out without it.

 

[Craorach]

Many people do not understand the difference between beating and "short sharp smack" it seems.

While growing up I saw many friends recieving the first type, as did my wife when she was growing up. Beating a child in a rage, for revenge or just to get your way is never acceptable. It without a doubt causes them harm psychologically and physically in the long run.

That said, a sharp occasional smack in a dangerous or important situation does nothing except make the child know you are serious. I can count a handful of incidents in my childhood where this happened.

1. I was very young and my cat was sitting on a fence at the end of our garden. I didn't know any better and grabbed his tail... cat bolted over the other side of the fence, I kept hold, making him hang there over the fence in agony. My mother grabbed me and put me over her knee. One firm smack later while I was all shocked she said to me "That's what you made Fluff feel like." In that moment I understood something no ammount of reasoning would have made me understand, the pain I had inflicted on another creature.

2. I have always had abit of a facination with the movement of flames.. we had an open fire.. my father found me trying to reach for the flames when I was about four. They had explained that it was dangerous to me dozens of times but the smack I recieved right then made me understand it more than ever.

3. I was badly bullied at school. I decided one day, quite conciously, to join in with the bullying of another child to "fit in"... I told my dad this later on, pleased with myself for finding a way to be "liked"... I was put over his knee immediately, I never bullied someone again.

Anecdotal evidence, I know. But three examples that jump to mind where I was at an age where reasoning really does not work and a short smack made me realise quickly the harm I could do to myself or others.

I don't have a child of my own, but I do have a ten year old stepson. Everytime we have him for a visit I see the damage that only positive reinforcement and "intellectual punishment" is having on his behavior. His generation will not do anything if it does not have a physical reward for them at the end of it. They embrace what the schools call "Negative Behavior" because they know that when they change next week into "Positive Behavior" they will be rewarded.. if they are just continuiously good they get less reward.. and if they are continuously bad all they get is told off verbally in the lightest possible way.

 

[Xanian]

Got hit with an old wooden paddle a few times. I wouldn't use it...but it worked on me.

I don't think my parents were capable of discussing things with me. It isn't that they were stupid...just not educated enough and not as capable of keeping themselves in check. Them yelling obscene things at me when they were angry was way worse than when they hit me, because they knew they had to hold themselves in check with the paddle, not so much with their words. As such it created an interesting little wrinkle in how my parenting went.

TLDR: Use whatever punishment you can more fairly met out. If you can't discuss without malice, hit with no malice. If you cannot hit without malice, discuss without malice. If you are incapable of either, GTFO.

 

[SuccessAndBiscuts]

I was struck a few times as a child, in hindsight I can safely say it was entirely justified and I would treat any children of mine in much the same way.

A small amount of violence is sometimes required.

 

[Amphoteric]

Supernanny doesn't need any form of violence.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I can't envision a scenario where it would be necessary to hit a child. All that does is teach them that violence is an acceptable answer to wrongdoing. In my opinion, it is much better, the first time something happens, to explain to the child what it is that they have done wrong and why it is wrong. If they do it again, in knowledge of why it is wrong, then enforce consequences, but there is no reason why these have to be violent.

Also, it has been shown that punishment is the least effective means of reinforcing a behavior. Positive reinforcement is much more effective; so it is more effective to praise your children when they do something right than to punish them when they do something wrong, especially if that punishment is physical.

I tend to agree with the positive reinforcement, i really do, but unfortunately in my experience it can be overdone, with kids expecting a treat every time they aren't bad, which is different.

I know everyone is hating on "I was smacked and i am fine" but in all seriousness, for me, it made me respect my parents, not fear them, and as i think i said earlier i was smacked when needed for about 5 years and i have never ever started a fight, and fights i didn't start number in about 4, so i think, in my particular circumstance, the saying does apply.

Finally, as i have been asking others who have entered into this, do you have kid(s)?

I agree, it can be overdone, but if done right I think that it can be far more effective than punishment. But that's not to say that you shouldn't punish children, I just think that non-violent punishments are infinitely better than violent ones.

No, I don't have children. But I hope to one day, and I won't be using physical punishment when I do.

 

[Eggsnham]

Corporal punishment = not a problem.

Actually hitting your kid with the intent to cause pain = go to hell.

 

[SIXVI06-M]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

Not really, my parents used to beat me - it only made me feel a stronger resolve to thwart them and circumvent their authority (call me a spoiled little **** who thinks I'm invincible, but I know there are better things to fear than my own misguided parents when they can't spare so much as an even-tempered word); I was even beckoning them to hit harder, if they can draw blood, I'd give them $10 or someshit. I'm not a submissive type, I do not bend to intimidation - and I ALWAYS see a better way, and that's why I always believe that physical punishment does, at best, make our skins a little thicker, and at worst - makes us a little deranged and rather hateful and chips at our self esteem if the kid was more the passive kind.

Physical violence should be a last resort and worst case scenario tool - against perhaps an assailant in a robbery or an attacker of some sort. If the kid was about to do something so dangerous that would warrant a physical intervention, sure. I personally would have taught my kids well enough to not get into such circumstance in the first place however.

If I have kids, I will have them know that the only people I beat give me very good reasons to do so and that I would not let them become so bad that I would feel they deserve such physical retribution.