The Old Republic vs. the Trolls

[sifffffff]

This is something I've noticed in this community and in many communities of various games in the past year. I first really noticed it happening when Dragon Age 2 was released and suddenly there was an influx of newly registered users on the Bioboards, day after day, starting flame wars and making the community over there an even shittier place to take part in.

Anyways I came across this article and I think the guy makes some pretty damn funny and valid (read logically well thought out) points. Give it a read and let me know what you think.

http://www.teamasunder.com/2012/01/30/the-internet-vs-bioware-how-trolls-set-out-to-destroy-the-old-republic/

Personally I find it a joke that the gaming community sometimes clamors to be taken seriously by the rest of the world when a portion of that same community prove completely unable to engage in serious constructive discourse on any topic. This coupled by the complete "sheeplike" mindset I've witnessed is mindboggling.

"Sheeplike" you ask? The best example I've seen here on the Escapist is when the story was leaked about Bioware banning people for "dancing in unauthorized dance zones" in The Old Republic.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.337026-UPDATE-Players-Banned-for-Breakdancing-in-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic

The comments thread was almost 95% filled with people slamming Bioware and EA for doing something that was so ridiculous one couldn't actually see ANY company do it

That part where it was so ridiculous? That should have set off some fucking warning bells. If you go and read the thread there were still people slamming Bioware for the non-existant dancing bans AFTER it came out it was a hoax.

If you're one of those people I'm not trying to call you out here but I am trying to get you to take a look at your attitudes. Don't automatically assume everything you read on the internet is true. For many of the posters it came down to their hatred for EA leading them to believe something ridiculous. Some other of those posters are part of the Anti-Bioware brigade mentioned in the article I linked.

Moderators: I'm not flame-baiting here. I think this could be a good discussion on the maturity of the gaming community.

 

[Fappy]

I was one of the first to comment in that thread. If I remember correctly I asked, "Those weren't permanent were they?" At the time there was no clear answer (on this site anyway). As it turns out most of the "Bans" being passed in ToR are actually 2-3 day long suspensions.

 

[Weaver]

The threads on /v/ are a lot of fun. /v/ seems to have a strong vendetta against Bioware. I guess I just enjoy seeing people get so worked up about something that doesn't matter.

I just have so little interest in the game.

 

[Zhukov]

Whenever I see mass silliness on the internet I just remind myself that a large proportion of the people involved are neurotic teenage nerds.

I find this attitude is very helpful in maintaining peace of mind.

 

[sifffffff]

Fappy your first response to the "bans" was completely reasonable. Read farther down. There are calls for blood from others.

 

[Fappy]

Whenever I see mass silliness on the internet I just remind myself that a large proportion of the people involved are neurotic teenage nerds.

I find this attitude is very helpful in maintaining peace of mind.

Very similar to my views. For some reason this kind of thing always has to boil down to 4Chan and to be honest... I don't understand why people brag about lurking 4Chan as a hobby. Most of the big "internet" people I know who "get" everything that happens in 4Chan/internet and brags about it all the time are generally attention-starved/annoying/pathetic people. I recently graduated college so I know A LOT of these people. If you don't, consider yourself lucky.

 

[Fappy]

Fappy your first response to the "bans" was completely reasonable. Read farther down. There are calls for blood from others.

Oh hey, that's right I mentioned Martin's Shirt and no one knew what I was talking about. I guess everyone forgot about it already

 

[Sixcess]

A lot of it comes down to the PR blitz in the weeks and months prior to and following the release of the Old Republic. Bioware - a company with zero experience in MMOs - took every possible opportunity to talk up their game to a point that went far beyond enthusiastic and deep into the realm of obnoxious.

"Star Wars: The Old Republic is one of the greatest achievements in the history of video games."

"If you're not doing it like WoW, you're doing it wrong."

"A lot of people have said they find it difficult to go back to other MMOs after playing TOR."

"A step forward in MMOs comparable to the advent of sound in motion pictures."

Bioware have earned a lot of the hate that they're getting for SWTOR. You don't have to point out that the Emperor has no clothes, but you probably will if he won't stop waving his dick in your face.

 

[9thRequiem]

A lot of it comes down to the PR blitz in the weeks and months prior to and following the release of the Old Republic. Bioware - a company with zero experience in MMOs - took every possible opportunity to talk up their game to a point that went far beyond enthusiastic and deep into the realm of obnoxious.

"Star Wars: The Old Republic is one of the greatest achievements in the history of video games."

"If you're not doing it like WoW, you're doing it wrong."

"A lot of people have said they find it difficult to go back to other MMOs after playing TOR."

"A step forward in MMOs comparable to the advent of sound in motion pictures."

Bioware have earned a lot of the hate that they're getting for SWTOR. You don't have to point out that the Emperor has no clothes, but you probably will if he won't stop waving his dick in your face.

That's all true. But all the complaints leveled against it went too far too.

I was very close to not trying it; to taking the complaints at face value and skipping it entirely. Gave it a try, and whilst it's not as revolutionary or flawless as Bioware's PR suggested (and since when has any game been up to it's PR hype?), I'm really enjoying it, and I'm very glad I took the chance to try it.

Of course, the lack of trial / demo really doesn't help it's cause.

 

[sifffffff]

The games are good and healthy. My problem with the hate is the message it sends to the gaming community, the developers and to people outside the gaming community who already find ways to villify it.

The message that's its okay to behave like children.

Are the trolls hilarious because of how stupid their arguments are or is it hilarious because they're genuinely harassing people who are enjoying something they don't like?

Example for me: I have restricted internet at work. So during a break if I want to get some TOR info there is one wiki that isn't blocked. Unfortunately for me that's the one that keeps getting hit by trolls so instead of getting info about Jedi advanced classes I read some stupid shit about "furfags" and other shit.

 

[Fappy]

The threads on /v/ are a lot of fun. /v/ seems to have a strong vendetta against Bioware. I guess I just enjoy seeing people get so worked up about something that doesn't matter.

Yeah, /v/ seems to be the driving force behind the TOR hate train (once again lol).

Personally I think its hilarious. But if the games good and healthy, why do you care OP?

Whenever I see mass silliness on the internet I just remind myself that a large proportion of the people involved are neurotic teenage nerds.

I find this attitude is very helpful in maintaining peace of mind.

Very similar to my views. For some reason this kind of thing always has to boil down to 4Chan and to be honest... I don't understand why people brag about lurking 4Chan as a hobby. Most of the big "internet" people I know who "get" everything that happens in 4Chan/internet and brags about it all the time are generally attention-starved/annoying/pathetic people. I recently graduated college so I know A LOT of these people. If you don't, consider yourself lucky.

Without naming anyone, theres one user here who gets on my nerves almost every day because he (or she, not sure) mentions 4chan at EVERY opportunity.

I don't doubt that for a second. For some reason some of its user-base (if not most) feel proud that there "in on it". I would not be proud about being "in on" trolling Metacritic/Other sites, accidentally clicking on CP or seeing the same memes butchered over and over again.

I had a friend who claimed to be the master at "trolling people IRL". The irony is that he was the easiest person to manipulate/confuse/undermine I have ever met.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

"Star Wars: The Old Republic is one of the greatest achievements in the history of video games."

"If you're not doing it like WoW, you're doing it wrong."

"A lot of people have said they find it difficult to go back to other MMOs after playing TOR."

"A step forward in MMOs comparable to the advent of sound in motion pictures."

Yeaahhhhh I don't get this.

This is called marketing. Every game company markets. If you wanted to, you could pour through the press releases from almost every single company and game in history and find outlandish claims about how amazing it is.

I guess it's cool if you find marketing annoying as a concept, but singling out one company for marketing one game screams confirmation bias.

 

[Fappy]

"Star Wars: The Old Republic is one of the greatest achievements in the history of video games."

"If you're not doing it like WoW, you're doing it wrong."

"A lot of people have said they find it difficult to go back to other MMOs after playing TOR."

"A step forward in MMOs comparable to the advent of sound in motion pictures."

Yeaahhhhh I don't get this.

This is called marketing. Every game company markets. If you wanted to, you could pour through the press releases from almost every single company and game in history and find outlandish claims about how amazing it is.

I guess it's cool if you find marketing annoying as a concept, but singling out one company for marketing one game screams confirmation bias.

Actually most of the hate being focused on Bioware right now is almost entirely their Marketing department's fault. A lot of people don't really stop to think about it

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Actually most of the hate being focused on Bioware right now is almost entirely their Marketing department's fault. A lot of people don't really stop to think about it

That's because they're BAD at it. Ever since the excellent Mass Effect 2 trailer it's been a bunch of rubbish. Their demos and trailers are all embarrassing and weirdly off-key. I don't hate them because they're pimping their games to me. I want them to do a BETTER JOB OF IT.

 

[Fappy]

Actually most of the hate being focused on Bioware right now is almost entirely their Marketing department's fault. A lot of people don't really stop to think about it

That's because they're BAD at it. Ever since the excellent Mass Effect 2 trailer it's been a bunch of rubbish. Their demos and trailers are all embarrassing and weirdly off-key. I don't hate them because they're pimping their games to me. I want them to do a BETTER JOB OF IT.

I can't help but think that they may have reorganized their department sometime after EA came into the picture. I know some people (including Christina Norman, the lead game designer) left after ME2, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the marketing/pr guys got shuffled/replaced by EA vets who had no experience with Bioware's properties and no context of their fanbase.

 

[Fappy]

The threads on /v/ are a lot of fun. /v/ seems to have a strong vendetta against Bioware. I guess I just enjoy seeing people get so worked up about something that doesn't matter.

Yeah, /v/ seems to be the driving force behind the TOR hate train (once again lol).

Personally I think its hilarious. But if the games good and healthy, why do you care OP?

Whenever I see mass silliness on the internet I just remind myself that a large proportion of the people involved are neurotic teenage nerds.

I find this attitude is very helpful in maintaining peace of mind.

Very similar to my views. For some reason this kind of thing always has to boil down to 4Chan and to be honest... I don't understand why people brag about lurking 4Chan as a hobby. Most of the big "internet" people I know who "get" everything that happens in 4Chan/internet and brags about it all the time are generally attention-starved/annoying/pathetic people. I recently graduated college so I know A LOT of these people. If you don't, consider yourself lucky.

Without naming anyone, theres one user here who gets on my nerves almost every day because he (or she, not sure) mentions 4chan at EVERY opportunity.

I don't doubt that for a second. For some reason some of its user-base (if not most) feel proud that there "in on it". I would not be proud about being "in on" trolling Metacritic/Other sites, accidentally clicking on CP or seeing the same memes butchered over and over again.

I had a friend who claimed to be the master at "trolling people IRL". The irony is that he was the easiest person to manipulate/confuse/undermine I have ever met.

You have the wrong impression of 4chan. Let me say this; it always seems like I am defending 4chan. Im not. I just dont understand why everyone makes a big deal out of it. You have a few anime fans, some guys who like movies, one or two script kiddies who think they are the hax0rs because they can DDOS a website, and a few dudes who like to talk about video games. Holy shit. I am trembling with fear and disgust. Go on /v/ and say "We sure showed the TOR fags, anon is legion!" You will be laughed out of the thread.

At least, thats how it is on most boards. If you are visiting /b/, you are asking for it. Its like saying "Show me the most annoying and disgusting shit on the internet!", then turning around and saying "Wait, I didnt want to see the most annoying and disgusting shit!".

Anyhow, yeah, there are a few people who think they are "in on it", and they annoy the hell out of me. HURR GOTTA GO FAST SANIC LOL BIOWARE SUX ANON IZ LEGION XDXDXD EPIC TROLLZ... Dont you just want to kill them all? 4chan is no longer this super secret club. The only thing that makes it different from any other imageboard or forum is that its very poorly moderated.

Well to be fair, most of my impression of 4Chan comes from the type of people you described and those that I mention I know IRL. Most of which probably spend 100% of their time exclusively on /b/. To many people /b/ IS 4Chan.

 

[sifffffff]

Actually most of the hate being focused on Bioware right now is almost entirely their Marketing department's fault. A lot of people don't really stop to think about it

That's because they're BAD at it. Ever since the excellent Mass Effect 2 trailer it's been a bunch of rubbish. Their demos and trailers are all embarrassing and weirdly off-key. I don't hate them because they're pimping their games to me. I want them to do a BETTER JOB OF IT.

I agree with you both on this point but it's a joke that some shitty press releases = livestreaming us trolling players in TOR (It's happened)

I mean I hate to point it out but Bioware isn't the only company / individual that's made arrogant and stupid remarks in the past year. Kim Kardashian, That guy who beat Rihanna up, Fox News, Michele Bachmann, etc... etc... etc...

If they're really going after some stupid remarks they've got better targets than other members of the same "community" they're a part of.

 

[Fappy]

The threads on /v/ are a lot of fun. /v/ seems to have a strong vendetta against Bioware. I guess I just enjoy seeing people get so worked up about something that doesn't matter.

Yeah, /v/ seems to be the driving force behind the TOR hate train (once again lol).

Personally I think its hilarious. But if the games good and healthy, why do you care OP?

Whenever I see mass silliness on the internet I just remind myself that a large proportion of the people involved are neurotic teenage nerds.

I find this attitude is very helpful in maintaining peace of mind.

Very similar to my views. For some reason this kind of thing always has to boil down to 4Chan and to be honest... I don't understand why people brag about lurking 4Chan as a hobby. Most of the big "internet" people I know who "get" everything that happens in 4Chan/internet and brags about it all the time are generally attention-starved/annoying/pathetic people. I recently graduated college so I know A LOT of these people. If you don't, consider yourself lucky.

Without naming anyone, theres one user here who gets on my nerves almost every day because he (or she, not sure) mentions 4chan at EVERY opportunity.

I don't doubt that for a second. For some reason some of its user-base (if not most) feel proud that there "in on it". I would not be proud about being "in on" trolling Metacritic/Other sites, accidentally clicking on CP or seeing the same memes butchered over and over again.

I had a friend who claimed to be the master at "trolling people IRL". The irony is that he was the easiest person to manipulate/confuse/undermine I have ever met.

You have the wrong impression of 4chan. Let me say this; it always seems like I am defending 4chan. Im not. I just dont understand why everyone makes a big deal out of it. You have a few anime fans, some guys who like movies, one or two script kiddies who think they are the hax0rs because they can DDOS a website, and a few dudes who like to talk about video games. Holy shit. I am trembling with fear and disgust. Go on /v/ and say "We sure showed the TOR fags, anon is legion!" You will be laughed out of the thread.

At least, thats how it is on most boards. If you are visiting /b/, you are asking for it. Its like saying "Show me the most annoying and disgusting shit on the internet!", then turning around and saying "Wait, I didnt want to see the most annoying and disgusting shit!".

Anyhow, yeah, there are a few people who think they are "in on it", and they annoy the hell out of me. HURR GOTTA GO FAST SANIC LOL BIOWARE SUX ANON IZ LEGION XDXDXD EPIC TROLLZ... Dont you just want to kill them all? 4chan is no longer this super secret club. The only thing that makes it different from any other imageboard or forum is that its very poorly moderated.

Well to be fair, most of my impression of 4Chan comes from the type of people you described and those that I mention I know IRL. Most of which probably spend 100% of their time exclusively on /b/. To many people /b/ IS 4Chan.

Well, maybe you know more people that browse 4chan than you think you do, they just dont scream about it and spout memes IRL. Who knows.

And yeah, its no wonder 4chan=/b/ to many people, since its the only area of the site that was "special" at any point. And you know what I mean by "special".

Oh yes definitely.

I didn't mean to imply that ALL the people I know who use 4Chan were like that, just the vast majority. I have a friend who mentions stuff he sees from time to time and that's the extent of it, so yes, I do realize there are perfectly tolerable if not fine citizens who use the site

 

[Jarek Mace]

Better yet, most of its hate is earned. Well and truly earned.

Spoiler

"The Old Republic Continues Meteoric Rise"

"BioWare is continuing to set new standards in online games with The Old Republic. "

"High Quality Service and New Game Updates Drive Successful Start" What, y'mean like an automated response that's unrelated to your issue after about 4 days? And downtime at the WORST possible times?

" 99.5% of the time outside of scheduled maintenance." Including scheduled maintenance, about 35% of the time.

"BioWare has also delivered on the promise of continually adding new content by releasing Rise of the Rakghouls, which added new, higher level group content, less than 30 days after launch" You mean like features that were standard to MMO's made over 5 years ago? LIKE A CUSTOMISABLE UI THAT YOU'RE ADVERTISING LIKE IT'S A BLOODY WORLD CHANGING INNOVATION?!

"smooth experience at launch" Haha. No.

"Player engagement for Star Wars: The Old Republic has not slowed since launch" That's an outright lie.

"...eight iconic Star Wars character classes..." "and Imperial Agent" Yes. Very iconic.

" including new Warzones and Flashpoints. You will also have the chance to get a sneak peek at the expanded Legacy system that?s coming to the game, UI customization, as well as new Guild features!" Yeah! New! Because there were only 3 bloody war zones, the UI customisation is not new and innovative, it's a bloody standard - MUCH LIKE THE GUILD FEATURES. Oh, and now the legacy system actually does shit.

"Over a million gamers worldwide celebrated the holidays in front of their PCs with lightsabers, Sith lords and Jedi knights as BioWare?, a Label of Electronic Arts Inc." That's just cheesy.

"The Old Republic has been lauded for bringing innovation to the MMO genre by adding fully voiced characters and placing a true emphasis on story and player choice." Either grind light/dark points to get different styles of armour and whatnot. Also, feel free to enjoy our fully voiced Empire quests that are all the same! "M'lord, the Imperial Military can't do squat for itself. Please do it for us." Oh, and enjoy playing a Sith Ghost Buste- I mean Inquisitor.

"combined with highly polished gameplay" Haha, oh... ability delay, inbalance, lag... Highly polished like a rusty spoon.

"Incredible gameplay achievements from the rabid community" Got one thing right there, a rabid community.

" Fan reaction has been extremely positive" Actually, we just choose to ignore most criticism and dislike for our game.

You're honestly telling me that you can't understand peoples anger? This was just their advertising department, if I began on the game itself this could triple in length.

 

[Fappy]

Better yet, most of its hate is earned. Well and truly earned.

Spoiler

"The Old Republic Continues Meteoric Rise"

"BioWare is continuing to set new standards in online games with The Old Republic. "

"High Quality Service and New Game Updates Drive Successful Start" What, y'mean like an automated response that's unrelated to your issue after about 4 days? And downtime at the WORST possible times?

" 99.5% of the time outside of scheduled maintenance." Including scheduled maintenance, about 35% of the time.

"BioWare has also delivered on the promise of continually adding new content by releasing Rise of the Rakghouls, which added new, higher level group content, less than 30 days after launch" You mean like features that were standard to MMO's made over 5 years ago? LIKE A CUSTOMISABLE UI THAT YOU'RE ADVERTISING LIKE IT'S A BLOODY WORLD CHANGING INNOVATION?!

"smooth experience at launch" Haha. No.

"Player engagement for Star Wars: The Old Republic has not slowed since launch" That's an outright lie.

"...eight iconic Star Wars character classes..." "and Imperial Agent" Yes. Very iconic.

" including new Warzones and Flashpoints. You will also have the chance to get a sneak peek at the expanded Legacy system that?s coming to the game, UI customization, as well as new Guild features!" Yeah! New! Because there were only 3 bloody war zones, the UI customisation is not new and innovative, it's a bloody standard - MUCH LIKE THE GUILD FEATURES. Oh, and now the legacy system actually does shit.

"Over a million gamers worldwide celebrated the holidays in front of their PCs with lightsabers, Sith lords and Jedi knights as BioWare?, a Label of Electronic Arts Inc." That's just cheesy.

"The Old Republic has been lauded for bringing innovation to the MMO genre by adding fully voiced characters and placing a true emphasis on story and player choice." Either grind light/dark points to get different styles of armour and whatnot. Also, feel free to enjoy our fully voiced Empire quests that are all the same! "M'lord, the Imperial Military can't do squat for itself. Please do it for us." Oh, and enjoy playing a Sith Ghost Buste- I mean Inquisitor.

"combined with highly polished gameplay" Haha, oh... ability delay, inbalance, lag... Highly polished like a rusty spoon.

"Incredible gameplay achievements from the rabid community" Got one thing right there, a rabid community.

" Fan reaction has been extremely positive" Actually, we just choose to ignore most criticism and dislike for our game.

You're honestly telling me that you can't understand peoples anger? This was just their advertising department, if I began on the game itself this could triple in length.

I think the idea here is that you don't run a smear campaign to ruin the game for others just because you don't like it yourself. If you truly find enough issues with the game that you feel its players are being cheated there are far more constructive things you can do about it. For instance, you could write/film a very in-depth and constructive analysis of the game and Bioware/EA's marketing of it so that people can get your views of the situation in a coherent and non-invasive manner.