The Order: 1886 Runs at 30 FPS for a "Filmic Look"

carnex

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TheKasp said:
endnuen said:
You just proved my point about the pc elitism.
The Order is ps4, compare it to its peers on the same system.
Oh sorry, seems I imagined all those "1080p 60 fps next gen experience" claims that were bloody everywhere before the console releases.

Ah well. Next gen they will deliver on that, amirite?
They can make them. They choose not to because they believe technically better graphics will generate better sales than better framerate. And, historically, they are right. It's all about where you allocate power to. Every game on PS4/XBONE can run at 1080/60 if you downgrade graphics enough. But is it worth it?

Look at it this way. You can run same car on 10 gallons of fuel for 500 miles driving conservatively or 300 miles driving like a maniac. It's a simple game of a tradeoffs.
 

Whitbane

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Mar 7, 2012
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Isn't this just a boring cover shooter anyways? All the footage I've seen points towards nothing interesting at all. Looks like Gears of War: Industrial England edition. Even the gameplay trailer they showed was nothing more than an in-game cutscene, and you can spot the FPS drop in that, which is hilarious.

It worries me more that people are willing to drop money on a game that runs like garbage, whatever excuse they throw out there.
 

carnex

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TheKasp said:
carnex said:
They can make them. They choose not to because they believe technically better graphics will generate better sales than better framerate. And, historically, they are right. It's all about where you allocate power to. Every game on PS4/XBONE can run at 1080/60 if you downgrade graphics enough. But is it worth it?
And I am free to voice criticism when they try to bullshitvertise that they simply can't manage to get the technical standards they set themselfs. And I am free to point out your doublestandard with trying to shut down this kind of criticism.

Ultrawinkle lent me a hand with pointint to all the games that manage to look better than this game while meeting the standards. I never claimed other consoles can deliver in this regard.

Look at it this way. You can run same car on 10 gallons of fuel for 500 miles driving conservatively or 300 miles driving like a maniac. It's a simple game of a tradeoffs.
Look at this way: Your old engine was always capable of this. Now the next gen of cars is advertised with "500 miles while driving like a maniac". When the engines get to light you realise that it was bullshit and the companies come out and say they did it for the "nostalgia" value or "the true driving experience".

No. They did not. They simply either failed at optimising or they simply can't get the hardware to do what they promised to deliver. In both cases they bullshitvertised a standard they fail to meet.

What elitist position of me, prefering certain technical standards over shiny graphics that will in the end look like shit because the resolution and frame rate take me out of the experience. My real life vision does not stutter when I move my head. My vision is only blurry if I take off my glasses. If you want -4 sight stutter emulations of your next gen, good for you. I actually hoped for real improvements. Improvements that would not only affect my experience with next gen games in a positive way (with less bullshit ports) but also the experience of the console audience.

And then there are people like you who run to their defense.

Hey, at least with the incredible "NEEEEEXT GEN" standards I won't have to upgrade my now 5y rig for a few years.
I wonder where they promised that. Sony didn't make same mistake they did with Killzone 2. They never make any specific promises. Implied? Yea, unfortunately that's advertising today. However I never ever heard M$ or SONY make any concrete promises that you can point out that they broke. They claimed that it can go for 500miles on 10 gallons of fuel and that you can drive like a maniac but they never mentioned that you can do both at same time.

You could point out Ubisoft and Watchdogs, but that's ubisoft. They didn't make a console.

Also you can't compare apples and oranges. I have PC with comparable price to consoles and it could never in million years push that graphics with that consistent framerate. And I cant even run Watchdogs on consistent 30fps unless i push everything down the toilet (lowest settings). People compare rigs where single component costs more than a console. It's true that in last two console generations PC has upper hand from the start (by much wider margin this time) but at what price. Decent gaming PC my most gamers standards starts at 800+USD. Not to mention inconvenience that PC still has compared to consoles even when consoles got far worse and PC much better in that department.

Gen 7 consoles are capable of 1080/60. Gen 6 consoles are capable of 1080/60. With limited power often it's not worth it. Not to mention that TV rescaling reduces need for AA for example. Console programing was always about hardware specific tricks. Last computer that was about hardware specific tricks was Commodore Amiga.

It always made me laugh and cry deep inside when people say "it's not capable of resolution and framerate". it shows how fundamentally little people know and understand.

In the end, graphics will get better as people find out new ways to trick-program and optimize code if that's your itch that needs scratching. Last of Us looks amazingly close to Witcher 2 for hardware that is inside PS3 (I compared those two since they have closest final aesthetic look of all games I know)
 

Whitbane

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Mar 7, 2012
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carnex said:
Yeah, sure. You totally can't build a budget PC that runs better than a "Next" gen console.

Oh wait, you can.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/gamespot-500-pc-outperforms-both-ps4-and-x1-31217969/

Come on, man, don't try to justify that these new consoles aren't anything other than $500 bricks.
 

carnex

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Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Yeah, sure. You totally can't build a budget PC that runs better than a "Next" gen console.

Oh wait, you can.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/gamespot-500-pc-outperforms-both-ps4-and-x1-31217969/

Come on, man, don't try to justify that these new consoles aren't anything other than $500 bricks.
Cool, with 40percent price hike and on sale items... not really the same is it.

Also, add to that good gamepad or at least decent mouse/keyboard combo and decent headset. With that price hike goes up to at least 50%.

I could have gotten PS4 for 350e (350usd, prices are most often on USD-EUR parity between US and EU) so count that in when you look at sale items for PC. Price hike goes even further up.

PC will overtake consoles within a 1.5 years for the same price as far as I can predict things. But consoles will still have their traditional benefits. PC and consoles are not the same products. Smartphones and 3G Android TV dongles have same hardware but they are hardly used for same things...
 

LazyAza

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Ultratwinkie said:
LazyAza said:
Have people even SEEN how good this game looks visually? I'm amazed they're able to even get it running smoothly at 30.

It's literally the first game I've seen where I've thought huh that looks like a cgi cutscene. The visuals are jaw dropping.
Obviously you haven't seen Metro. Or Crysis 3. Or any battlefield games. Or even skyrim mods. Games like that existed for a while, and at 60 FPS and 1080p.

The order was the one thing that the ps4 supposedly "had" over other platforms to show its true power at full 1080p with 60fps. Now we know that ain't the case. Its still the same compromises as the multiplats. And the dev is just covering for promises they couldn't keep.
I've played all of those games at max settings on my pc and I'm not sure what you're point is as they all look much worse than The Order. People who think Skyrim looks amazing with visual mods especially are kidding themselves, I've downloaded the best and it still looks like dated last gen ass. It also runs like shit if you install too many of those mods.

The Order is the first game in some years I've seen that actually managed to impress me with its particles, materials, cloth simulation, hair physics and dynamic animation tech. That stuff always upgrades slowly over time but with the Order its the first instance in a while where I've felt like a studio has taken a leap and is doing more than is the current expected standard. It along with Arkham Knight are the first two games to actually seem next gen to me and I'll be getting both for PS4 since the pc parts required to run the likes of AK will be extremely expensive at the moment.
 

J Tyran

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The other issue console players are missing is that by the end of this console generation things will be really grim for these consoles, the 7th gen weathered the upgrades in display tech fairly well up until the last 18mth-2 years. Its only on the best and clearest TVs and monitors they really start to look bad and all the artefacts and compromises in visuals really show themselves. (I am only talking visual fidelity and quality here, not graphics power and frame rates which is its own issue ofc)

Within the next few years 4k S-IPS and high grade PLS TVs will become the standard[footnote]Over here with the World Cup coming up they marketing for well priced 4k TVs has gone in to overdrive in a way 3D and smart TVs never managed[/footnote], these consoles are already struggling with the existing technology. They will look like arse on them, the games are already running choppy. The Xbone and Lamestation (sorry if we insult the Xbox one gotta insult the PS4 too) 4 will be the same as retro gaming, you guys might as well bust out the PS2.
 

Whitbane

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Mar 7, 2012
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carnex said:
Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Yeah, sure. You totally can't build a budget PC that runs better than a "Next" gen console.

Oh wait, you can.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/gamespot-500-pc-outperforms-both-ps4-and-x1-31217969/

Come on, man, don't try to justify that these new consoles aren't anything other than $500 bricks.
Cool, with 40percent price hike and on sale items... not really the same is it.

Also, add to that good gamepad or at least decent mouse/keyboard combo and decent headset. With that price hike goes up to at least 50%.
Moving the goalposts man, same as if you wanted to pick up an extra controller for your console, or pay for online access. Not to mention that console games are $60 often without the sales/bundles you can find for PC games online, and you'll have that money made back easily.

You're really digging through the stones now.
 

carnex

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Jan 9, 2008
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Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Yeah, sure. You totally can't build a budget PC that runs better than a "Next" gen console.

Oh wait, you can.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/gamespot-500-pc-outperforms-both-ps4-and-x1-31217969/

Come on, man, don't try to justify that these new consoles aren't anything other than $500 bricks.
Cool, with 40percent price hike and on sale items... not really the same is it.

Also, add to that good gamepad or at least decent mouse/keyboard combo and decent headset. With that price hike goes up to at least 50%.
Moving the goalposts man, same as if you wanted to pick up an extra controller for your console, or pay for online access. Not to mention that console games are $60 often without the sales/bundles you can find for PC games online, and you'll have that money made back easily.

You're really digging through the stones now.
I'm not moving goalposts, you set up different one for two teams. Decent controller is decent controller. And you get decent one with console, so count decent one for PC. I don't care if it's gamepad or mouse keyboard combo or whatever you like. A4tech X750 and A4tech gaming keyboard is more than good enough. And you do get headset with console. In the end if you count in sale items on one side, you should count them in on other side.

Now you got to the real downsides of consoles. Paywalls and game prices. I would also add game diversity as a major benefit of PC. Just don't post things that bend reality until it closes a loop on itself. In the end, they are not the same product.
 

DarkhoIlow

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Dec 31, 2009
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I think this is too easy to troll against really..it really feels like an article meant for the PC crowd jump in and say "Bullshiiiiiiiiiiiit!".

Go ahead and limit and lock your consoles fps so they can run games in 1080p, because that's what they are meant for: compromise one thing for another (fps over graphics in this case).
 

J Tyran

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Dec 15, 2011
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carnex said:
Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Yeah, sure. You totally can't build a budget PC that runs better than a "Next" gen console.

Oh wait, you can.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/gamespot-500-pc-outperforms-both-ps4-and-x1-31217969/

Come on, man, don't try to justify that these new consoles aren't anything other than $500 bricks.
Cool, with 40percent price hike and on sale items... not really the same is it.

Also, add to that good gamepad or at least decent mouse/keyboard combo and decent headset. With that price hike goes up to at least 50%.
Moving the goalposts man, same as if you wanted to pick up an extra controller for your console, or pay for online access. Not to mention that console games are $60 often without the sales/bundles you can find for PC games online, and you'll have that money made back easily.

You're really digging through the stones now.
I'm not moving goalposts, you set up different one for two teams. Decent controller is decent controller. And you get decent one with console, so count decent one for PC. I don't care if it's gamepad or mouse keyboard combo or whatever you like. A4tech X750 and A4tech gaming keyboard is more than good enough. And you do get headset with console. In the end if you count in sale items on one side, you should count them in on other side.

Now you got to the real downsides of consoles. Paywalls and game prices. I would also add game diversity as a major benefit of PC. Just don't post things that bend reality until it closes a loop on itself. In the end, they are not the same product.
Buy a handful of AAA games at launch and you will save the cost of a controller, mouse and keyboard. PC games don't have the licence fee that consoles do so you save £5-10 compared to the console release at launch, I am not even getting into the whole digital distribution sales argument either just brand new AAA games at launch.
 

carnex

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Jan 9, 2008
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J Tyran said:
carnex said:
Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Whitbane said:
carnex said:
Yeah, sure. You totally can't build a budget PC that runs better than a "Next" gen console.

Oh wait, you can.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/gamespot-500-pc-outperforms-both-ps4-and-x1-31217969/

Come on, man, don't try to justify that these new consoles aren't anything other than $500 bricks.
Cool, with 40percent price hike and on sale items... not really the same is it.

Also, add to that good gamepad or at least decent mouse/keyboard combo and decent headset. With that price hike goes up to at least 50%.
Moving the goalposts man, same as if you wanted to pick up an extra controller for your console, or pay for online access. Not to mention that console games are $60 often without the sales/bundles you can find for PC games online, and you'll have that money made back easily.

You're really digging through the stones now.
I'm not moving goalposts, you set up different one for two teams. Decent controller is decent controller. And you get decent one with console, so count decent one for PC. I don't care if it's gamepad or mouse keyboard combo or whatever you like. A4tech X750 and A4tech gaming keyboard is more than good enough. And you do get headset with console. In the end if you count in sale items on one side, you should count them in on other side.

Now you got to the real downsides of consoles. Paywalls and game prices. I would also add game diversity as a major benefit of PC. Just don't post things that bend reality until it closes a loop on itself. In the end, they are not the same product.
Buy a handful of AAA games at launch and you will save the cost of a controller, mouse and keyboard. PC games don't have the licence fee that consoles do so you save £5-10 compared to the console release at launch, I am not even getting into the whole digital distribution sales argument either just brand new AAA games at launch.
I simply adore when people repeat what I already said. But this went far from original topic. Game is at 1920X800 at 30fps mostly so the could push graphics quality further. It's not bad in my opinion, you get used to 30FPS rather quickly even if you are one of those who claim that they can't stand anything less than 60. In my experience constant framerate is much more important that sheer amount of frames as long as that amount does not impede gameplay.
 

endnuen

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Ultratwinkie said:
snip

Metro games fulfilled their promises.

Crysis did too.

So did the Witcher.

So did Hitman absolution.

snip

The 7th gen managed to fulfill its promises, but not this gen.
Both Metro and Crysis were pretty games. Shit games, but pretty.
Witcher was a pretty game, shit, but pretty.
Hitman absolution, pretty, but shitty.
The 7th gen didn't manage to meet expectations before the end of its lifespan apparently, not to mention one of the examples is not even on the same platform. In regard to the quality of the graphics, have you had the pleasure of having the Order run on the PC that you run Witcher on? Oh waaaaait..

Also, "8th" gen PC hardware is probable around 1-2 years old at the rate that gets upgraded, so of course, if you have the money to sink into it you can always have a state of the art PC that far surpases the ps4/xbox. But; Build a PC for the same amount of money that you shell out for a ps4, and in 6 years, when the ps4 is still going strong playing the newest games, your PC no longer holds up.

stop comparing oranges to apples. They're both fruits and thats it.
 

Grimh

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Feb 11, 2009
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Video Games aren't movies.
Just cutting the framerate to 30 won't do anything to make it more "cinematic".

Mr.K. said:
Well dear Dana Jan you apparently have absolutely no clue how these two technologies work.
A 24fps analog camera recording still captures the entire 42ms time frame of movement which is why even if blurry things look very fluid. A 30 fps graphic rendering however captures a time frame of absolute zero so the entire segment of 33ms is showing a completely dead static picture, which is also why your game looks incredibly choppy.
What he said. You'd think someone who works with games would know the difference.
I'm not actually too bothered if a game runs at 30 (I very much prefer 60 but whatever) but just be honest about why you're doing it.
 

Ferisar

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Oct 2, 2010
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I am so enjoying the comments here. I'm a proponent of 60FPS. I can still see this being a design decision that was honestly made. It comes at two favors: Game will look better because of a locked lower framerate. This was already seen in Ryse. Two, as has ALSO been said, if the framerate is consistent at 30, it'll be fine to play, because it fits into most refresh rates just fine. Of course it's likely a hardware limitation, but we've been working within hardware limitations since pong. Stop flaunting superiority, nerds :p