The point of Avatar, why empathy is important and why humans are like cancer

Asimov

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Avatar has been getting a lot of hate here at the escapist for one big reason- the unoriginal plot. But, and I have said this in other threads, the plot isn't the point of the movie. The point of it is to get you immersed in an amazing world and use it to drive a point home.

Some people say that the message is exxagerated, with the humans being sadistic, nature-hating douchebags who put no value on life. They are wrong in many ways. Humans do the exact same thing in real life, but instead of killing the opposition, they ignore them completely. Also, what the humans were doing on Pandora has nothing on what people do in real life. We cut down practically whole forests every day and kill untold amounts of animal species so we can live a life of decadent luxery and excess. We kill any animal that poses a threat and save room only for the ones we think are cute.

The difference between real life and Avatar is that we don't SEE what we are doing to the planet and Earth isn't as majestic or beautiful as Pandora in the eyes of many people, although I believe it is. We are just jaded and think we've seen everything there is to see on Earth. We are like a cancer, a natural part of the system that has grown out of control and is beginning to kill the system that gave birth to it.

I believe I know why we do this too- we have no Empathy. Empathy is feeling connected emotionally to other things. We assume that because we have been more successful as a species and are smart that we are in a league of our own. We would kill hundreds of animals to save one human life, because we can relate to people. We know what it feels like to be human and identify with other humans. We feel empathy for them.

We feel no empathy whatsoever to other animals because we are not like them. Think about it- if you felt as much sadness for the death of any living thing as the death of a person, what would the world be like. Also people feel even less empathy for plants because they can't move or emote and have no faces. People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death. The only opposition for killing plants is the environmental impact and the fact that many plants are pretty, which is good, but a different point entirely.

We love dogs and cats as pets because they like us and (for the most part) won't hurt us. Some people say that eating a dog is horrible (some cultures do that). When I ask them why, they simply answer "because it's a dog". Eating a dog is no worse than eating a pig or a cow. They are all living creatures. If we felt empathy for every living thing, our world would be so much better and people would get the damn point when watching Avatar. Jesus christ....
 

Internet Kraken

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Asimov said:
People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.
I'm sorry, but are you serious? This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I mean really, you think it's wrong to chop down trees? What the hell?
 

SnipErlite

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Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
Asimov said:
We feel no empathy whatsoever to other animals because we are not like them.
We feel some empathy towards them, but not as much as for humans
 

Nouw

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Internet Kraken said:
Asimov said:
People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.
I'm sorry, but are you serious? This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I mean really, you think it's wrong to chop down trees? What the hell?
Well its not wrong wrong but like it feels wrong. It is wrong because tress are living. But not that wrong because they'll grow back.

OT: Can't be bothered reading all of it but after skimming and scamming I agree.

Watch the Cove to get an idea. Not Cave, but Cove. The one with dolphins in them. Stabbed to death dolphins I might add
 

LockeDown

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I feel bad for the countless animals slaughtered to keep me fed for the past twenty-odd years. However, the will to survive is far stronger than the remorse I feel for their death. Their sacrifice was necessary for my survival or betterment, and I have since rationalized this in order to sooth my regrets.

Humans aren't cancer (okay, some are), we're just self-serving, just like every other creature on the planet. Don't think for a second that your faithful dog wouldn't eat you in a second if its survival came into question.
 

Internet Kraken

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SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
 

eels05

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I dont quite agree with you on the point you making about empathy.
I agree its selective,but its also selectivley applied to other humans as well,The Holocust,The Inquisition etc.
I think our technology is progressing faster than our ability to gauge its impact on our lives and the world around us.
 

SnipErlite

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Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
Yeah I know, hence the sort of - plus I couldn't resist the Matrix reference

But we DO sort of move into an area, drain the resources and move on.

Well that's very oversimplified and probably not so true nowadays, but even so
 

benbenthegamerman

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Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
were like cockroaches then?
 

Arcticflame

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Err, chopping down a tree isn't wrong. (With exceptions of course)
The point with avatar is that the trees weren't just trees, they were a network that the natives connected with on a spiritual, and apparently also on a physical level.

They weren't just trees in avatar, unlike the trees we have on earth.
 

SnipErlite

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benbenthegamerman said:
Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
were like cockroaches then?
But with better hair
 

Internet Kraken

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SnipErlite said:
Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
Yeah I know, hence the sort of - plus I couldn't resist the Matrix reference

But we DO sort of move into an area, drain the resources and move on.

Well that's very oversimplified and probably not so true nowadays, but even so
What do you mean by "but even so"? That's a completley inaccurate way of describing modern human society. If we still had the pioneer attitude of consuming resources whilst making no attempt to preserve them, then we would have drained many of our renewable resources long ago. There are many efforts being made to preserve renewable resources such as water, trees, livestock, etc. A virus does nothing like that.

Sorry, it's just that I get angry when people compare humans to a virus. It's a complete misrepresentation of our species.

And before someone comes and tries to inform me of the horrors humans preform on a daily basis, I am already aware of them. I just don't judge our entire species based on those horrors alone.

Arcticflame said:
The point with avatar is that the trees weren't just trees, they were a network that the natives connected with on a spiritual, and apparently also on a physical level.

They weren't just trees in avatar, unlike the trees we have on earth.
That's one of things I hate about Avatar. The connection between the Navi and nature is completley unrealistic.

kotorfan04 said:
I would say we are more like a parasite, we take what we can and give nothing in return.
Parasites are not aware of the damage they do to their hosts. Parasites do not try to keep their hosts alive. Parasites do not think of their host as anything other than food. Humans are not like that. We see Earth as far more than a pile of resources, hence why there is now a greater urge in modern society to preserve our planet.
 

kotorfan04

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I think I have to disagree, humans aren't like a cancer, I would say we are more like a parasite, we take what we can and give nothing in return. As for this...
People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.
... Pure retardation. Trees don't have a FUCKING nervous system. They can't feel pain. Okay I get it humans don't respect the environment, and maybe keeping the place we live decent might be a good idea. But still either way Mr. Hippy we are going to be killing trees to make houses, and killing animals to make our dinner. I kind of lost my train of thought now, but anyways yeah.

Also are you a genius and giving us well designed troll bait?
 

Flishiz

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If the point of the movie was to try and show us how destructive we are to our environment, why wasn't it a documentary then? And even if so, it doesn't explain the massive special effects budget. Truth is, you've just learned that movies have themes, and while Avatar beats the viewer over the head with its own more than most other movies do, it's still reading far too much into things to say that it's the only view the makers have of people and their environment, because human beings are far too complex to try to summarize in a 2+ hr movie, and one that emphasizes the effects so much.
 

fozzy360

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Asimov said:
I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.
Equating the mutilation and death of a person to chopping a tree down? Really? So if one were to preen roses, would it be like cutting off someone's fingers?
 
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We do have empathy for other animals that aren't cute.

Lots of species are protected by law, and there are people always working to make sure animals have comfortable lives.

There are forest preserves that protect many animals and plants, and on some people are forbidden by law to enter. Does everyone listen to the law? No, but without forest preserves, the endagered species list, many species of animals and many forests/jungles would be gone today.

Many important people today and in history have put nature conservation at the top of their list. Teddy Roosevelt enacted some of the U.S.'s first nature preserves. And even in the modern era, high political figures campaign for enviornmental protection.

Sadly most people don't care, which really makes me want to cry.

But my point is that there are people who don't care about animals or nature, but there are also those who do. And they are working as hard as they can to preserve it.

Not all humans are like cancer. Most people are, but there is a crapload of people who give a damn and are trying to help.
 

House_Vet

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Whilst I certainly agree with your line of argument, some of it is a little overblown (the trees = legs bit) and let's not forget that the Na'vi aren't veggie either. We don't kill and eat dogs because of their usefulness to our society. They are much more suited to working for us, or being our companions than eating food. This message is ingrained in western thinking, to the extent that most people can't tell you why they won't eat dog.

There is another issue here - that of conciousness and rational thought. We don't eat apes (too smart and too like us) and we probably shouldn't eat pigs (very smart). The question is where we draw the line. I love animals - hell, I'm devoting the next 5 years of my life (and the past 2) to studying them so I can help them as a vet.

As a society, we lack true empathy as you said. I hope Avatar can start something in that respect - it certainly has a wide enough audience.
 

SnipErlite

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Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
Yeah I know, hence the sort of - plus I couldn't resist the Matrix reference

But we DO sort of move into an area, drain the resources and move on.

Well that's very oversimplified and probably not so true nowadays, but even so
What do you mean by "but even so"? That's a completley inaccurate way of describing modern human society. If we still had the pioneer attitude of consuming resources whilst making no attempt to preserve them, then we would have drained many of our renewable resources long ago. There are many efforts being made to preserve renewable resources such as water, trees, livestock, etc. A virus does nothing like that.

Sorry, it's just that I get angry when people compare humans to a virus. It's a complete misrepresentation of our species.

And before someone comes and tries to inform me of the horrors humans preform on a daily basis, I am already aware of them. I just don't judge our entire species based on those horrors alone.
Yeah it doesn't happen any more, in the past we were far more like this. Nowadays we are nothing like a virus, I know.

Just, say we found a new planet rich with resources, it would not surprise me if we went in, took everything useful (thereby draining it) and left.

But maybe I'm just a massive cynic :)
 

Internet Kraken

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SnipErlite said:
Just, say we found a new planet rich with resources, it would not surprise me if we went in, took everything useful (thereby draining it) and left.

But maybe I'm just a massive cynic :)
If we found a planet full of resources, we would utilize it. No point in letting those resources go to waste. However, that's not a bad thing. And I guarantee we would make attempts to renew all possible resources.
 

RagnorakTres

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Internet Kraken said:
SnipErlite said:
Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........
No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.
Actually, no. We are not more complicated than a disease. Diseases can be caused by everything from bacterium to viruses to prions to fungi to countless other agents we have no control over or grasp of. I haven't heard this speech you refer to, but we are no more complex than a prion, except on a very basic level, and we are not so much "more complex" as "equally complex on a different evolutionary path." And comparing humanity (or at least, human "civilization") to a cancer sounds exceptionally fair to me, thinking about all the places life will never flourish again in a dozen lifetimes for our actions.

This is why we need to learn from our mistakes rather than perpetuating them throughout history. Why were the Native Americans (nearly) wiped out again? Oh yeah, we're STUPID. I pray to whatever higher being may exist, from Jahweh to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that aliens are more understanding and less warlike than we are. If they aren't, we're screwed, royally.

I agree, however, that comparing cutting down a tree (which lacks things like nerves or even a sensory interpreter such as the human brain) to cutting a human off at the waist is ridiculous.