The Price of Fun
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
Comparisons with the movie industry miss a key point: a single customer could, if they wanted to, watch a different movie start to finish every night. The same is not true of games. For example, I have plenty of disposable income but there are good games which I want to play but won't buy because I've got hundreds more hours of play in the ones I already own.
Consequently discounted games hurt the games industry a lot. As prices drop, people do not spend more on games, they just play more games.
And no, the industry are not just greedy. Studios go bust all the time. And indeed the trend is for studios which are short of cash to innovate less. This is just bad.
Agreed about the Australian pricing, though. It's really harsh. Very glad I don't live there.
Consequently discounted games hurt the games industry a lot. As prices drop, people do not spend more on games, they just play more games.
And no, the industry are not just greedy. Studios go bust all the time. And indeed the trend is for studios which are short of cash to innovate less. This is just bad.
Agreed about the Australian pricing, though. It's really harsh. Very glad I don't live there.
Actually, it makes a lot more sense than I expected at the very first mentioning of declining price. A lot of games are doing this as the "greatest hits" version, and to an effect, virtual console releases. I initially thought it is dumb--and that people will simply wait longer for the price to drop before they buy it, causing the publisher to lose money.
But then I realized that even among my friends, a lot of people actually upgraded to Vista on their 256MB RAM machine because it was new and shiny. (Which resulted in total crash upon boot up, as I snicker in the background, but that's besides the point.)
There are more than one type of people. We have seen the people who are even willing to take days queuing up just to get a console or a game. They will be willing to shell out a little more money for brand new games, whereas the rest of us might want to pay a little less.
Or at least, I don't want to pay 60AUD for a USED copy of Pokemon Diamond. Honestly--the damn thing is almost 2 years old, and it's selling at the same price as when it was brand new. Retailers are full of BS. Thank god we can actually buy games online now.
But then I realized that even among my friends, a lot of people actually upgraded to Vista on their 256MB RAM machine because it was new and shiny. (Which resulted in total crash upon boot up, as I snicker in the background, but that's besides the point.)
There are more than one type of people. We have seen the people who are even willing to take days queuing up just to get a console or a game. They will be willing to shell out a little more money for brand new games, whereas the rest of us might want to pay a little less.
Or at least, I don't want to pay 60AUD for a USED copy of Pokemon Diamond. Honestly--the damn thing is almost 2 years old, and it's selling at the same price as when it was brand new. Retailers are full of BS. Thank god we can actually buy games online now.
Well written. I guess this is the reason that the PS2 is still hanging in there. Its hitting this untapped "budget game market".
In the Uk there seem to be loads of "2 for £30" type offers on older games. I think its because we have competing game stores on the highstreet.
Im shocked at the price of Aussie games. Since the invention of the internet why do they still buy games in Australia?
In the Uk there seem to be loads of "2 for £30" type offers on older games. I think its because we have competing game stores on the highstreet.
Im shocked at the price of Aussie games. Since the invention of the internet why do they still buy games in Australia?
I think GameFly is getting more business due to economic times and continued high prices of games. I've used GameFly before, but now more than ever is it tough to get a title that is even a few months old, let alone a new release. I'm looking at games from November as still having "High", "Medium" or "Low" chances of shipping, whereas previously if it wasn't in its first month, it was most likely available.
I wonder how publishers will start feeling about services like GameFly in the future?
I wonder how publishers will start feeling about services like GameFly in the future?
At least in the PC market, I'm not sure there's any good reason to buy a game at launch price rather than discounted down the road.
Why buy before the early adopters have suffered through all the bugs and a patch has been written.
I believe lowering prices on key titles will help sales in the long run. I don't exactly live paycheck to paycheck, but my entertainment budget does. I get a certain amount of money between paychecks that can be used getting lunches at Herfy's rather than brown-bagging, buying games, saving towards presents for whoever has a birthday coming up.. It is a lot easier to talk myself into paying 20 dollars for a game than 40.
I was very happy to buy overlord after reading Shamus' recent articles on it. Now I just have to find time to play.. I just got started on neverwinter nights, after all.
Why buy before the early adopters have suffered through all the bugs and a patch has been written.
I believe lowering prices on key titles will help sales in the long run. I don't exactly live paycheck to paycheck, but my entertainment budget does. I get a certain amount of money between paychecks that can be used getting lunches at Herfy's rather than brown-bagging, buying games, saving towards presents for whoever has a birthday coming up.. It is a lot easier to talk myself into paying 20 dollars for a game than 40.
I was very happy to buy overlord after reading Shamus' recent articles on it. Now I just have to find time to play.. I just got started on neverwinter nights, after all.
I really wish it was that easy. Sadly here in Oz we have a major issue with backward internet services as well.bjj hero said:
In our house we pay 70 dollars per month for 30 gig (plus the cost of the phone land line) that's shared between 3 people, my dad uses about 10 gig for work, my mum about 2 gig id say and that's 18 gig left. I would definitely buy games through steam or something if we had the downloads to support it.
However, i think overall the game shops are becoming smarter, recently when killzone 2 came out most of the game shops dropped the price of the game straight down to 88 dollars to compete with JB Hi Fi (which is a big electronics depot type store here that sell everything you can imagine at fairly cheapo prices). Of course after a week or 2 they put them back up to standard 110-120 dollar prices. I found a copy from k-mart for 84 dollars, which seems to indicate that if you shop around you can find a better deal.
The funny thing is the game shops always used the excuse of the Australian dollar, though before the recession it had climbed to something like 97 US cents, which means we were paying double US prices for no good reason apparently.
This is one area that I feel very fortunate. The latest game I purchased in stores was Battlefield 2 for $5 in the United States. It wasn't too long ago that BF2 was one of the most popular online FPS games for the PC. I got it for a bargain.
Of course, I suppose most people are concerned about console video game prices instead of PC game prices, so maybe my positive experiences are irrelevant. But then again, I stopped buying console video games half a dozen years ago for precisely this reason. Why spend so much money on video games (and the console system to play those games) when a PC you need anyways can play games that cost $5 or less and are just as fun?
If it turns out overpriced console video games are popular because of some addictive property, then I must count myself lucky for having sidestepped that problem long ago.
Of course, I suppose most people are concerned about console video game prices instead of PC game prices, so maybe my positive experiences are irrelevant. But then again, I stopped buying console video games half a dozen years ago for precisely this reason. Why spend so much money on video games (and the console system to play those games) when a PC you need anyways can play games that cost $5 or less and are just as fun?
If it turns out overpriced console video games are popular because of some addictive property, then I must count myself lucky for having sidestepped that problem long ago.
Pricedrops seem to depend on the system. When I bought my PS2 it took a long time until I bought the first full priced game for it (though I can't remember which one it was) and still got plenty of games, when I got my 360 I had trouble finding anything decent at a price that wasn't plain insane. Nintendo is very resistant to pricedrops anyway, you don't get their games cheaper without store markdowns but third parties seem to be somewhat more willing to drop the price. The PC, now THAT is bargain hunter HEAVEN. The pyramid (pyramid-shaped bargain table, 10€ for every game on it, some even cheaper) has tons of AAA titles on it, Bioshock for a tenner, Company of Heroes for another, etc. There's a DS pyramid but it consists exclusively of third party titles with a lot of crap (at 20€ each). What falls out of the pyramid probably ends up in the Green Pepper line which I haven't looked at in a while.
However there's still more to the price policies.
Iwata once chastised publishers for being too willing to have pricedrops which devalues the product in the mind of the customer and makes them less willing to pay full price than when they know they'll have to pay full price no matter how long they wait. It's working out... somewhat. I do buy Nintendo titles at full price but I'm much more likely to not buy a title because I find it less interesting (I don't have Mario Kart, Brawl or Strikers for the Wii). No idea what the net result is.
I think the 70€ price for titles on the HD consoles (compared to the 50€ price on the Wii and PC and 60€ last gen for everyone) has a dirty little secret: The core gaming market is not growing. A game simply cannot sell many more copies now than it would have last gen except now the core games are way more expensive to make. The 70€ price is a bit of a crutch there, as sales numbers cannot go up much the increased price means more revenue.
IMO the only way for the core gaming industry to survive is to cut budgets. I don't really care about lengthy cutscenes and such, that's a lot of money to be saved. Look at a game like EDF, it's made on a very small budget by cutting down on the amount of absolute content (the data) while maximizing the amount of effective content (what the player will perceive as content). Then again cutting money by making games less cinematic and more gamey is not a core market philosophy and probably just means leaving that market so it wouldn't really be the survival of core gaming as much as the survival of HD gaming.
However there's still more to the price policies.
Iwata once chastised publishers for being too willing to have pricedrops which devalues the product in the mind of the customer and makes them less willing to pay full price than when they know they'll have to pay full price no matter how long they wait. It's working out... somewhat. I do buy Nintendo titles at full price but I'm much more likely to not buy a title because I find it less interesting (I don't have Mario Kart, Brawl or Strikers for the Wii). No idea what the net result is.
I think the 70€ price for titles on the HD consoles (compared to the 50€ price on the Wii and PC and 60€ last gen for everyone) has a dirty little secret: The core gaming market is not growing. A game simply cannot sell many more copies now than it would have last gen except now the core games are way more expensive to make. The 70€ price is a bit of a crutch there, as sales numbers cannot go up much the increased price means more revenue.
IMO the only way for the core gaming industry to survive is to cut budgets. I don't really care about lengthy cutscenes and such, that's a lot of money to be saved. Look at a game like EDF, it's made on a very small budget by cutting down on the amount of absolute content (the data) while maximizing the amount of effective content (what the player will perceive as content). Then again cutting money by making games less cinematic and more gamey is not a core market philosophy and probably just means leaving that market so it wouldn't really be the survival of core gaming as much as the survival of HD gaming.
I agree. I used to have a whole stack of Megadrive and the PS1 and 2 games whereas I only have a handful of PS3 games. I do still have a lot of PC games however and that is purely because it is easier in Australia to find PC games at a reasonable price. For console games, I shop around in independent stores, swap games with friends, buy second hand etc etc.Grampy_bone said:
The only brand new game I bought from a store recently was Resident Evil 5 for AU$84 which seemed like a good deal altho the game is ok, but hardly amazing so I don't think I'll be risking a whole $84 again anytime soon.
For PC, I am particularly keen on Steam and hope that a game I want will be added to it so I can wait until they have a half price special so I can grab it like I did with L4D or Dawn of War 1. Otherwise I just cant afford to buy very many games.
Although that said, Steam are guilty as anyone of price gouging by having some titles such as Fallout 3 (US$70) and CoD4 (US$60) at insane prices for ages. AND STEAM DO NOT CLEARLY INDICATE TO THEIR CUSTOMERS THAT THEY USE US DOLLARS EVEN WHEN YOU ARE BUYING FROM AUSTRALIA. They could probably get taken to court for that kind of deception.
It's a shame because something like Steam could be the way to go for PC games anyway. Eliminates productions costs (of DVDs, boxes etc) and distribution costs and I also assume the various publishers can get a much better margin out of Steam than from EB and co.
And it's better for the environment which is a marketing angle they seem to have missed somehow.
But yeah, going back to what Grampy Bone said, if games were all $30 instead of $90 I'd probably just buy three times as many and be less annoyed when one turns out to be pantzors.
The other thing with Steam is that until about a month ago, Ubisoft wouldn't sell games via Steam outside of the US. There're still a bunch of titles that we Aussies can't get a hold of.
The one bit that really surprises me still is that the DS games still go for $50Au-$70Au. That's rediculous for a game that'll take 6 hours to beat and 2 hours to get bored of.
The impetus is wholly on the retailers to lower prices - I work for one, and games like Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros, Twilight Princess, they're all still $100Au. Nintendo don't drop their prices. At all. And yet, they're creaming everyone else. We still somehow get more 360 games traded back than Wii games.
Something's seriously wrong with the videogame retail industry in Australia.
Likely other countries, too, but I don't live there, so I can't comment.
The one bit that really surprises me still is that the DS games still go for $50Au-$70Au. That's rediculous for a game that'll take 6 hours to beat and 2 hours to get bored of.
The impetus is wholly on the retailers to lower prices - I work for one, and games like Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros, Twilight Princess, they're all still $100Au. Nintendo don't drop their prices. At all. And yet, they're creaming everyone else. We still somehow get more 360 games traded back than Wii games.
Something's seriously wrong with the videogame retail industry in Australia.
Likely other countries, too, but I don't live there, so I can't comment.
I haven't checked recently, having not bought a game recently, but last time I checked, I can get all new releases for £40 or under. (At a stretch £45.)
I'm just wondering where all this money that gets spent on developing a game goes. Because they're claiming their costs are rising but I'm not seeing any increase in quality. In fact most pc games these days are rehashed, buggy, console ports or are simply dreadful. So it would seem to me that developers aren't getting their money's worth when it comes to development costs because the games are getting worse and the prices are rising.
If I'm paying more for my games I want there to be a corresponding increase in quality.
Things I don't want to see when I fork up $100+ for a PC game:
- Game finished in under 4hrs
- Graphics that look like they're 5+ years old and run slow (cough*gta*cough)
- An X-box controller with letter key assignments when I configure my keys (or even worse no letter assignments and just the alternate xbox assignments)
- Press start on the title screen
- CTD out of the box requiring a 500mb patch to fix
- Requiring an online login to save the game
- Press x,y,a,b or any other console control to continue, exit etc.
- A menu only navigable by the keyboard (come on we're not in 1990 anymore)
- Mouse not working properly
I can name at least a dozen games that have one or more of these faults that have been released in the last 2 years.
So the developers have a lot to answer for when it comes to pricing. I like the idea of downloading from steam, however here in Australia our internet is a joke so it takes days to download games and there's no way to know how much you actually pay because its all in USD.
If I'm paying more for my games I want there to be a corresponding increase in quality.
Things I don't want to see when I fork up $100+ for a PC game:
- Game finished in under 4hrs
- Graphics that look like they're 5+ years old and run slow (cough*gta*cough)
- An X-box controller with letter key assignments when I configure my keys (or even worse no letter assignments and just the alternate xbox assignments)
- Press start on the title screen
- CTD out of the box requiring a 500mb patch to fix
- Requiring an online login to save the game
- Press x,y,a,b or any other console control to continue, exit etc.
- A menu only navigable by the keyboard (come on we're not in 1990 anymore)
- Mouse not working properly
I can name at least a dozen games that have one or more of these faults that have been released in the last 2 years.
So the developers have a lot to answer for when it comes to pricing. I like the idea of downloading from steam, however here in Australia our internet is a joke so it takes days to download games and there's no way to know how much you actually pay because its all in USD.
I just did a conversion from USD to AUD:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=60+USD+to+AUD&btnG=Search&meta=
So 60 USD comes to about 87 AUD, which is not really that bad. New titles do come out selling for about $100-110 AUD lately, but that's only at EB. If you look around a bit more you will find that many places sell them for much less at about $80-90 (like JB). I think saying that games down here cost twice as much is a bit exaggerating.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=60+USD+to+AUD&btnG=Search&meta=
So 60 USD comes to about 87 AUD, which is not really that bad. New titles do come out selling for about $100-110 AUD lately, but that's only at EB. If you look around a bit more you will find that many places sell them for much less at about $80-90 (like JB). I think saying that games down here cost twice as much is a bit exaggerating.
It was far more ridiculous when the the aussie dollar was worth 90 US cents, it even got up to 96.
Basically the game prices in Australia did not budge at all when the dollar went up. To their credit though, they haven't budged at all when the dollar dropped a good 30c over about 5 months.
Basically games in Australia from most places will cost $90-$100 for a new PC game, and $100-$120 for a new next gen console game. You pretty much double the standard US price.
Of course, nothing prevents me from purchasing from Steam and online vendors for the PC and the PS3 (if I had one). I even imported a US Wii to take advantage of well, everything being cheaper despite shipping costs.
It's not just the games by the way. The Wii costs $400 here, the Xbox 360 has finally fallen down to an RRP of $500 for the 60Gb version, and the PS3 (with absolutely no PS2 backwards compatability) is a mere $700, but originally came out at $1000, though had software backwards compatability.
Just remember when looking at the prices, the Australian dollar was at about 80-85 US cents when most of these came out, rather than slightly below 70c.
As an upside at the moment things are cheaper on the Xbox Live Arcade than they are in the US. 800 MSP = $10US = $13.20AU, $10US = $14.33AU at the current exchange rate.
Basically the game prices in Australia did not budge at all when the dollar went up. To their credit though, they haven't budged at all when the dollar dropped a good 30c over about 5 months.
Basically games in Australia from most places will cost $90-$100 for a new PC game, and $100-$120 for a new next gen console game. You pretty much double the standard US price.
Of course, nothing prevents me from purchasing from Steam and online vendors for the PC and the PS3 (if I had one). I even imported a US Wii to take advantage of well, everything being cheaper despite shipping costs.
It's not just the games by the way. The Wii costs $400 here, the Xbox 360 has finally fallen down to an RRP of $500 for the 60Gb version, and the PS3 (with absolutely no PS2 backwards compatability) is a mere $700, but originally came out at $1000, though had software backwards compatability.
Just remember when looking at the prices, the Australian dollar was at about 80-85 US cents when most of these came out, rather than slightly below 70c.
As an upside at the moment things are cheaper on the Xbox Live Arcade than they are in the US. 800 MSP = $10US = $13.20AU, $10US = $14.33AU at the current exchange rate.
Nintendo is the worst for not dropping prices, but I'm glad they keep their games stocked on the shelves for years at time.
When I have money, I have only a certain amount I feel comfortable spending on entertainment each month. I've passed on many video games simply because I could buy 5 brand new DVDs for the same price. I've also bought many games that I normally wouldn't have because they were so inexpensive and I needed something easy and fun to play. Zack & Wiki, Resident Evil 4, Endless Ocean were $20 each when I picked them up for the Wii.
I'm still waiting for Boom Blox, Okami, and Dragon Quest Swords to come down to a reasonable price. I'd love to play them, but $40 each? Give me a break. It's been almost a year now and they still haven't come down enough. In fact, Boom Blox and Okami are being de-listed from some Canadian retailer sites. Just one publisher has to start a precedent of quality titles being sold at reasonable prices for a trend to be established or the video game industry will continue to limit itself to the hardcore market and those with disposable income.
Apparently, many publishers don't want my middle class money.
When I have money, I have only a certain amount I feel comfortable spending on entertainment each month. I've passed on many video games simply because I could buy 5 brand new DVDs for the same price. I've also bought many games that I normally wouldn't have because they were so inexpensive and I needed something easy and fun to play. Zack & Wiki, Resident Evil 4, Endless Ocean were $20 each when I picked them up for the Wii.
I'm still waiting for Boom Blox, Okami, and Dragon Quest Swords to come down to a reasonable price. I'd love to play them, but $40 each? Give me a break. It's been almost a year now and they still haven't come down enough. In fact, Boom Blox and Okami are being de-listed from some Canadian retailer sites. Just one publisher has to start a precedent of quality titles being sold at reasonable prices for a trend to be established or the video game industry will continue to limit itself to the hardcore market and those with disposable income.
Apparently, many publishers don't want my middle class money.
I find it interesting how many comments refer to the used game market and how it hurts developers. One has to wonder, how does it hurt the consumer?
I spent a lot of time pirating games when I was in college, but now that I'm working fulltime, I buy my games. Unfortunately, I've been burnt several times. I was one of the poor bastards that went out and bought Age of Conan the day it came out, amongst a flurry of previews that said it was the best thing to happen to MMORPGs. Three days later, I cancelled my account and was looking for somebody to sell it to, when I realized that I couldn't -- the CD key was tied to my account, which was tied to my credit card; an obvious ploy to prevent me from reselling it.
Developers may see fewer sales when used resale is possible, but is that a problem with the resale or the developers? A good game is something that people will keep and play for quite awhile -- long enough that, if they do eventually decide to resell it, it will have minimal impact on overall sales. A poor game may be resold quickly and often, such that a single retail sale may result in several people owning the game. This would definitely have an impact on the developer, but that's the fault of the game being poor, not of resale. Preventing resale just inflates the numbers (by requiring everybody to buy a retail copy) and leaves a lot of customers with nothing when the game is a flop.
Preventing resale upsets the balance of risk, cost, and perceived value. Buying Guitar Hero World Tour at release wasn't a major risk, even though it sold for $200, because it had full (if not increased) resale value. I bought it myself, decided I didn't like it as much as Rock Band 2, and resold it for $20 less than I paid for it -- a worthwhile trial. If I couldn't resell it, the risk would have been much greater and I wouldn't have bought it on the first day -- I'd wait until somebody else with money to burn bought it so that I could try it out first.
Of course, you can also go into legal arguments, with the First Sale doctorine and how EULAs and DRM prevent our legal entitlement to resell what we have purchased, but laws are fluid things. The fact that resale is an important buyer protection is clear. If developers are complaining that it hurts their bottom line, perhaps they should be producing games that people don't want to resell.
I spent a lot of time pirating games when I was in college, but now that I'm working fulltime, I buy my games. Unfortunately, I've been burnt several times. I was one of the poor bastards that went out and bought Age of Conan the day it came out, amongst a flurry of previews that said it was the best thing to happen to MMORPGs. Three days later, I cancelled my account and was looking for somebody to sell it to, when I realized that I couldn't -- the CD key was tied to my account, which was tied to my credit card; an obvious ploy to prevent me from reselling it.
Developers may see fewer sales when used resale is possible, but is that a problem with the resale or the developers? A good game is something that people will keep and play for quite awhile -- long enough that, if they do eventually decide to resell it, it will have minimal impact on overall sales. A poor game may be resold quickly and often, such that a single retail sale may result in several people owning the game. This would definitely have an impact on the developer, but that's the fault of the game being poor, not of resale. Preventing resale just inflates the numbers (by requiring everybody to buy a retail copy) and leaves a lot of customers with nothing when the game is a flop.
Preventing resale upsets the balance of risk, cost, and perceived value. Buying Guitar Hero World Tour at release wasn't a major risk, even though it sold for $200, because it had full (if not increased) resale value. I bought it myself, decided I didn't like it as much as Rock Band 2, and resold it for $20 less than I paid for it -- a worthwhile trial. If I couldn't resell it, the risk would have been much greater and I wouldn't have bought it on the first day -- I'd wait until somebody else with money to burn bought it so that I could try it out first.
Of course, you can also go into legal arguments, with the First Sale doctorine and how EULAs and DRM prevent our legal entitlement to resell what we have purchased, but laws are fluid things. The fact that resale is an important buyer protection is clear. If developers are complaining that it hurts their bottom line, perhaps they should be producing games that people don't want to resell.
The really ridiculous thing is that Australia's dollar is comparable to Canada's. Though Canada went over the US dollar for a bit, it's currently somewhere around 0.81 CAD / 1 USD. Despite this, prices in Canada are comparable to those in the US.Ranneko said:
Of course, Canada is in the same "region" as the US when it comes to release dates, region lockouts, and all the rest, so maybe there is a good reason prices have stayed so close -- a price discrepancy would just lead to mass imports/exports. The $5-10 extra we pay in Canada is comparable to shipping prices, so it's not worth trying to buy from the US, even when our dollar jumped above the American, and it's no more worth it for Americans to buy games from us now that the dollar is weak. On the other hand, Australia is given a different region code (and you guys use PAL too, right?), which means cheap imports on games come at the greater cost of importing whole consoles to play them. It's exactly what the region system was designed for: market segmentation.
The blame clearly lies on the North American publishers and distributors. They know that America is the source for mainstream entertainment and they know they can make other countries pay through the nose for it, so they invent systems like region codes to force market segmentation, ripping off each artificially-segmented market just as much as they think they can.