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Johnny Novgorod

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I'm not sure which game is being parodied or what's going on. Is it a next-gen thing?
 

Kyrdra

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Johnny Novgorod said:
I'm not sure which game is being parodied or what's going on. Is it a next-gen thing?
DOTA 2 or LOL. I think. The joke is that there are creeps who will give money when you kill them and with the money you can buy items to make you better. So if you dont kill them they will level up ( not in the game but it works for the joke)
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Kyrdra said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
I'm not sure which game is being parodied or what's going on. Is it a next-gen thing?
DOTA 2 or LOL. I think. The joke is that there are creeps who will give money when you kill them and with the money you can buy items to make you better. So if you dont kill them they will level up ( not in the game but it works for the joke)
So in the last panel they've basically spent the money they would've paid off when killed on themselves. Gotcha.
 

rasputin0009

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That's one of the simple rules of DOTA that turned me off. Why can't I just get gold if I hit the creep the most? The last hit thing is bullshit.
 

RJ 17

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That'd add a...very interesting new aspect to the game if that's how it really worked. Imagine how pissed players would get if creeps started beating their asses with ridiculously powerful gear.
 

kurupt87

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It's DOTA2, and I think they've got themselves an Aghanim's Sceptor and a Rap(e)ier. So, I guess their team killed that lanes ranged and melee 'racks? Bastards certainly feel like they're equipped like that when you're on the end of a stomping.

Edit: I did get the joke, I just wanted to make my own :)
 

Teoes

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Looking at this strip and the comments I feel like such a scrub. Y'all are speaking another language. I'm clearly not a real gamer!
 

Remus

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Those rules actually harken back to about every MMO ever, 5 years ago. MMOs now have evolved a bit in their loot distribution thankfully so "last hit" only applies to MOBAs, where I'm sure the intent is to make them more competitive. Griefing is just another aspect of competition after all.
 

OldNewNewOld

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rasputin0009 said:
That's one of the simple rules of DOTA that turned me off. Why can't I just get gold if I hit the creep the most? The last hit thing is bullshit.
Proper last hitting takes skill, just auto attacking doesn't.
Also, it would be counter productive.
Purely auto attacking pushes your lane, which brings you in danger.
It would end up "push line and now go back to tower and wait for the next wave".

Also, without the need to last hit, denying wouldn't have any purpose.
As it is now, denying will deny the enemy 100% of the gold they could have gotten and 50-75% of the experience.


tl.dr. Last hitting adds a strategical element to the game that auto attacking couldn't.
 

UltimatheChosen

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BiH-Kira said:
rasputin0009 said:
That's one of the simple rules of DOTA that turned me off. Why can't I just get gold if I hit the creep the most? The last hit thing is bullshit.
Proper last hitting takes skill, just auto attacking doesn't.
The fact that something takes skill does not mean it adds to the gameplay. It would also take skill if you were required to run a partial circle of exactly 270 degrees around every enemy before they could die, but it still wouldn't be good design.

BiH-Kira said:
Also, without the need to last hit, denying wouldn't have any purpose.
As it is now, denying will deny the enemy 100% of the gold they could have gotten and 50-75% of the experience.
Denying is also an idiotic game mechanic. It should have been nixed when the bug that allowed it first popped up back in DotA, rather than becoming a supported part of the core gameplay.
 

kurupt87

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UltimatheChosen said:
BiH-Kira said:
rasputin0009 said:
That's one of the simple rules of DOTA that turned me off. Why can't I just get gold if I hit the creep the most? The last hit thing is bullshit.
Proper last hitting takes skill, just auto attacking doesn't.
The fact that something takes skill does not mean it adds to the gameplay.
Skilled things always add to gameplay, it's whether or not they'd be worthwhile additions to gameplay. In this case they are worthwhile additions. You can choose to disagree, but you'd be wrong.

BiH-Kira said:
Also, without the need to last hit, denying wouldn't have any purpose.
As it is now, denying will deny the enemy 100% of the gold they could have gotten and 50-75% of the experience.
Denying is also an idiotic game mechanic. It should have been nixed when the bug that allowed it first popped up back in DotA, rather than becoming a supported part of the core gameplay.
Denying I can take or leave, but it too adds depth that LoL just doesn't have. I don't even play DOTA2, I play LoL. But I watch DOTA2.
 

OldNewNewOld

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UltimatheChosen said:
BiH-Kira said:
rasputin0009 said:
That's one of the simple rules of DOTA that turned me off. Why can't I just get gold if I hit the creep the most? The last hit thing is bullshit.
Proper last hitting takes skill, just auto attacking doesn't.
The fact that something takes skill does not mean it adds to the gameplay. It would also take skill if you were required to run a partial circle of exactly 270 degrees around every enemy before they could die, but it still wouldn't be good design.

BiH-Kira said:
Also, without the need to last hit, denying wouldn't have any purpose.
As it is now, denying will deny the enemy 100% of the gold they could have gotten and 50-75% of the experience.
Denying is also an idiotic game mechanic. It should have been nixed when the bug that allowed it first popped up back in DotA, rather than becoming a supported part of the core gameplay.
Okay, lets say we remove last hitting and denying.
What is actually left for early game to do?

What is the option to prevent an enemy carry from getting fed?

Removing those elements won't add anything useful to the game. It will only make the slow early game even slower.
Some heroes have slow projectiles and long attack animations because that balances them out. They have other strong skills.

If we removed that aspect, IceForg would have to nerf those strong parts because they would be overpowered. Doing so will remove quite a big of uniqueness to those heroes. All heroes will be similar, which is a bad thing.

With last hitting and denying in place, we can have heroes that go from extreme to extreme. Extremely bad at last hitting but can become extremely good if they do get the last hits.

Also, denying wasn't a bug. Denying was option even in Warcraft 3. The only bugs about denying where about the moment when you could deny them. Not from 100% but from 50%, tower from 10%. And that changed a bit over the time, but it was never purely a bug.

Last hitting and denying add 2 strategical layer to the game and the time when it's needed the most. Without them, the game loses a part what makes it the game it is. Removing them would make the game less competitive and the early game would be boring to watch. It would also heavily unbalance the support/ganker/carry roles and would merge them in one role where pretty much everyone is similar in those roles.

I understand that you don't like those mechanics, but saying those are idiotic mechanics is an insult to the millions of user that do like it.
 

kailus13

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Teoes said:
Looking at this strip and the comments I feel like such a scrub. Y'all are speaking another language. I'm clearly not a real gamer!
I'm not a real gamer too in that case. Let's hide in our MOBA-proof bunker together, away from such terms as "carry" and "ward".

Presumably, if you actually let two exactly equal minions fight, they'd kill each other at exactly the same time.
 

88chaz88

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Daystar Clarion said:
Fucking Noob Void, learn to last hit scrub.

Crystal Maiden, hard carry.
Fucking noob creep. Dafuq use is an aggs without an ult. GG uninstall noob.
 

NightHawk21

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rasputin0009 said:
That's one of the simple rules of DOTA that turned me off. Why can't I just get gold if I hit the creep the most? The last hit thing is bullshit.
Last hitting is a necessary by product to offer the possibility of lane control. If it was simply whoever does the most damage you would probably have to push out your creeps after every single wave. Not to mention if this was the scenario it would become very easy for every hero with burst AoE to farm every wave, since they could drop one as soon as the creeps meet and then run back. This would make the entire laning phase boring and stale, as you would see the same 3-5 heroes picked solely for their ability to cast 1 spell then retreat to the tower.

Last hitting also adds a bit of skill to the lane, which IMO is never a bad thing. It takes proper knowledge on your part to see how much damage you deal and when to attack when considering all outside sources of damage. Additionally, it opens up the way for denies (which are their own topic, but add A LOT to the laning phase). Finally though, last hitting can make the lane more active. Because you are required to get a last hit and not just do some damage you are required to be near the creep wave as creeps die and not just hiding under tower. This means that if the enemy is paying attention they have a small window where creep power levels change upon which to capitalize and go in for a kill. If you want to see a hero who really capitalizes from this mechanic, look at Pudge in Dota 2 (a much stronger version of LoL's Blitz). A lot of the players when facing pudge will hide amongst creeps, since his hook will grab the first unit it hits (friendly or not). However, better pudge players will often position themselves so that the dieing creep (the one the enemy is going for) will be between them and the enemy. Then there is a split second after the creep dies and the enemy hasn't hidden in the wave again, where they are out of position and capable of being hooked.
 

NightHawk21

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kailus13 said:
Teoes said:
Looking at this strip and the comments I feel like such a scrub. Y'all are speaking another language. I'm clearly not a real gamer!
I'm not a real gamer too in that case. Let's hide in our MOBA-proof bunker together, away from such terms as "carry" and "ward".

Presumably, if you actually let two exactly equal minions fight, they'd kill each other at exactly the same time.
Can't remember how it was in LoL, but in Dota 2 one wave will come out on top (at least initially). I can't remember if anyone has actually tested to see if without any outside influence one team of creeps continuously wins over another, since the games would go hours, but at the start of the game the two don't just meet in the middle and kill each other simultaneously. This is probably due to differences in how hitting works (I think damage is applied over a range), and later terrain bonuses.