The R Word

[Helmholtz Watson]

If you don't think that should be the person who uses the hyperbole's problem or concern then you're wrong.

It is my opinion on a subjective matter and thus I can't be wrong. Nor can you be wrong for that matter. All that can be determined is that you and I have a difference of opinion on a subjective topic.

No, but you can quite easily be a piece of fucking garbage for having that opinion. You can also be a fucking idiot for having such an opinion. It fucking amazes me how you look at every fucking argument placed before you, and simply proceed to bash your fucking head against a brick fucking wall, and still have this smug sense of superiority about it. Every time you open your stupid fucking mouth and let the garbage pour forth, people shred your "opinions" to a goddamn pulp, but still you persist.

Your presenting your opinion about my character/thoughts as fact, when in reality its just your opinion. That said, I strongly disagree with your opinion about my character.

How "kind" of you to edit your post and remove the two sentences about how you hate me and wish I died in a fire. /sarcasm

 

[Terminal Blue]

If there are no proofs or other witnesses ? Of course he shouldn't have been put on trial. Law is and should be based on presumption of innocence and in such case it's his word against hers.

Except that the purpose of a trial is to establish proof. That's why we have trials.

It's not the job of the police or front line services to prove guilt. The police have one job, a job they nonetheless have a long history of systematically fucking up when it comes to rape cases, which is to gather evidence and to decide whether an accusation should go forward to court.

It's not his word against hers because she had visible injuries. Since the alleged crime was reported almost immediately, she will have been taken to a police station and had those injuries photographed as evidence, and that evidence submitted to the court. That is already not "her word against his", there is physical evidence that a crime occured with a named suspect.

This is not particular or special to rape cases. It is the standard procedure in any assault causing actual bodily harm.

If you want to live in a world where you cannot possibly be arrested. Sorry, you don't live in one, you never did. You could give yourself a black eye right now, claim someone else inflicted it and take them to court. The only reason not to do this is that it's an extremely serious crime. We cannot magically stop it from happening any more than we can magically stop rape from happening, we can only prosecute it when it is found to have happened.

And right now, perverting the court of justice is not a problematic crime. It is not an undereported crime or an unrecognised crime, if anything in these cases it is over-recognized in that many people, including many people in the criminal justice system and the police, believe it happens far more frequently than it does. The same is not true of rape.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive but, Mr. Anonymous, you need to stop having the mentality of a fucking victim. You need to stop being a coward, trying as you do to block out anything to do with rape. It only represses your emotions and thus gives them more control over you. You need to stop living in fear.

You can do it. You know how I know that you can do it? Because when I was a wee lad of 4 I was raped multiple times. I repressed it. It haunted my dreams for 14 years until I re-experienced it in its totality when I was 18. It was the fucking worse thing ever but it still wasn't enough. After that I had 5 imaginary death experiences that were at least as painful as my initial re-experience. Even after that I had to quit my university for a few semesters because I found myself to be now so incapable of dealing with any stress that I would go into a state of paralytic shock for hours on ends at the simplest demands. Hell, it's only now that I've finally got over my subconscious fear of intimacy that has prevented me from forming any kind of sexual relationship.

But you know what? I got the fuck over it. Sure, my rape is still an uncomfortable subject but I didn't have to spend two damn weeks of suffering to write this post. As for the subject of rape in general I'm fine with it. I don't get offended at the use of rape in media or in the news or by punk-ass kids on Xbox. That's because I've learned to accept it and integrate it. I am no longer afraid because instead of repressing and running away from my fears I have the courage to confront them.

Mr. Anonymous you, sir, are a damn coward right now. You're letting your fears govern your life and the more you continue to run away from your fears the more they will own you. You don't have to be a coward, Mr. Anonymous, you can find the courage to confront your fears if you just get out of the mentality of being permanently damaged. No matter what anyone tells you, you don't have to be a damaged man.

Dude...the fuck?

I was never raped, and hopefully I never will be. You were. You know how painful, how traumatizing it is. Why in the FUCK would you rip on this guy, or call him a coward? he made it clear that rape isn't something to "overcome" or a challenge you can grow from. its something you carry with you for the rest of you're life. clearly the two of you disagree, because you seem to think it's just another part of life, or something you can "roll with"

Im really happy that you no longer suffer from trauma or fears, but for christ's sake, have some sympathy for the guy. as someone who suffered as you did, try and understand, like I, and everyone else is.

Erm... it's kind of ironic that you asked the guy to have sympathy and at the same time criticized him for his emotional response. It's understandable that he gets pissed off when he sees in others the destructive weakness that he had to overcome himself. His criticism may seem harsh to us, but it is clearly aimed at helping that guy. I doubt you or I could possibly understand what either person went through, and I'm fairly certain we don't have a place in the conversation of how to deal with it. Plus, he apologized for the apparent insensitivity of his argument at the outset.

Yeah...to be completely honest, I didn't read every page of comments after reading the article (and didn't see the apology come up) and so when I first read Iron Lightning's post I was a little...excited. I did go back and edit my post. so hopefully that will clear things up.

I agree with Iron Lightning. Part of growing up is to take all of these things that happen to you and grow past them. Bad things happen. We have to accept them and move on. Even more, I have to ask everyone something. Stop having pity for us or anyone who has gone through this. Yes, it is terrible to happen. But we do not deserve any special treatment for the short comings in our lives. People are strong to move past this. Allow us to without thinking we are broken, or that we will suffer forever.

Whether or not you are a rape victim, that doesn?t justify your harsh criticisms. Substantiality of rape and its implications varies from person to person?not all are identical to yours.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive but, Mr. Anonymous, you need to stop having the mentality of a fucking victim. You need to stop being a coward, trying as you do to block out anything to do with rape. It only represses your emotions and thus gives them more control over you. You need to stop living in fear.

You can do it. You know how I know that you can do it? Because when I was a wee lad of 4 I was raped multiple times. I repressed it. It haunted my dreams for 14 years until I re-experienced it in its totality when I was 18. It was the fucking worse thing ever but it still wasn't enough. After that I had 5 imaginary death experiences that were at least as painful as my initial re-experience. Even after that I had to quit my university for a few semesters because I found myself to be now so incapable of dealing with any stress that I would go into a state of paralytic shock for hours on ends at the simplest demands. Hell, it's only now that I've finally got over my subconscious fear of intimacy that has prevented me from forming any kind of sexual relationship.

But you know what? I got the fuck over it. Sure, my rape is still an uncomfortable subject but I didn't have to spend two damn weeks of suffering to write this post. As for the subject of rape in general I'm fine with it. I don't get offended at the use of rape in media or in the news or by punk-ass kids on Xbox. That's because I've learned to accept it and integrate it. I am no longer afraid because instead of repressing and running away from my fears I have the courage to confront them.

Mr. Anonymous you, sir, are a damn coward right now. You're letting your fears govern your life and the more you continue to run away from your fears the more they will own you. You don't have to be a coward, Mr. Anonymous, you can find the courage to confront your fears if you just get out of the mentality of being permanently damaged. No matter what anyone tells you, you don't have to be a damaged man.

Dude...the fuck?

I was never raped, and hopefully I never will be. You were. You know how painful, how traumatizing it is. Why in the FUCK would you rip on this guy, or call him a coward? he made it clear that rape isn't something to "overcome" or a challenge you can grow from. its something you carry with you for the rest of you're life. clearly the two of you disagree, because you seem to think it's just another part of life, or something you can "roll with"

Im really happy that you no longer suffer from trauma or fears, but for christ's sake, have some sympathy for the guy. as someone who suffered as you did, try and understand, like I, and everyone else is.

Erm... it's kind of ironic that you asked the guy to have sympathy and at the same time criticized him for his emotional response. It's understandable that he gets pissed off when he sees in others the destructive weakness that he had to overcome himself. His criticism may seem harsh to us, but it is clearly aimed at helping that guy. I doubt you or I could possibly understand what either person went through, and I'm fairly certain we don't have a place in the conversation of how to deal with it. Plus, he apologized for the apparent insensitivity of his argument at the outset.

It?s also understandable someone would get pissed off at possibly the most potent display of selfishness, surreptitious cowardice and in-humanity I?ve ever witnessed in text. Feel free to utilize my insults/following descriptions of my actions against me, but nearly all objects in my living room are in pieces. I?m not joking, It made me that angry.

It could be to do with the fact my sister was raped and committed suicide, but somehow I also believe it to be in pertinence with my knowledge.

Whether or not he/she is a rape victim, that doesn?t justify his/her criticisms. Substantiality of rape and its implications varies from person to person?not all are identical.

As for your claim of ?destructive weakness,? you?re only reducing yourself to his/her level.

The concept of weakness in accordance to a traumatising situation, is a condition that?s only ?viable? in a still menially operational mindset. Rape (depending on the harshness) can potentially destroy the functionality of mind itself? therefore the cowardly concept of weakness isn?t always applicable.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

Yeah, I fail to see how this is any different than a victim of torture or one who had witnessed the murder of someone dear to them at a young age. All of these things are emotionally traumatic on a deep level and will likely fuck you up for the rest of your life. Rape isn't special in that regard. At least, not so special that I'm suddenly going to treat it with some kind of new-found "respect". I never used the word rape colloquially anyway, but this doesn't really change my perspective on anything.

Many perceive rape as an act in which the perpetrator merely wants to sexually and/or swiftly gratify themselves. Therefore, how can it be so traumatising?

A number of rapists will use any verbal, physical means they can to make the victim feel as degraded as possible. Inflicted degradation is how they stimulate a sense of power over the victim, as well as (possibly) a form of externally sadomasochistic, sexual gratification.

Rape is about using sex as a tool of dominance.

Such methods include degrading language (worthless, ****, slut) sodomy, urination, defecation, spitting, slapping, hair-pulling and weaponry.

This is made more effective by the victims body being biologically self-stimulating during rape, regardless of resistance.

When women are raped, they?re being conversely reminded of how men have and in some cases still perceive women. Weak, stupid, sexual objects.

Some women are aware of the implications while BEING raped. Potential pregnancy, injustice (victim-blaming) and the intolerance they may receive. Such knowledge causes the experience to be even more upsetting.

These things are what embody the horror of rape.

It?s not solely the experience, It?s the numerous implications and how rape victims are treated by society.

 

[Elithraradril]

Except that the purpose of a trial is to establish proof. That's why we have trials.

You're so wrong I even don't know where to begin explaining. If you have no proof that this particular man committed the crime, you have no right to arrest him at all. Without proof you have no warrant, no case, no trial.
Or ...you want to create a country where you can put someone in jail only because, one person said he's a rapist ? Guy will spend months behind bars, just because you believe victim more than him ? That doesn't work this way and I hope it never will. It's like we're all in middle ages again: we won't feel secure until we have someone behind bars, so go get this man and put him in chains until we find better candidate.

It's not his word against hers because she had visible injuries. Since the alleged crime was reported almost immediately, she will have been taken to a police station and had those injuries photographed as evidence, and that evidence submitted to the court. That is already not "her word against his", there is physical evidence that a crime occured with a named suspect.

No, there isn't if you have no DNA match etc.. You still have nothing pointing Mr X except word of Ms Y. I'm sorry, but this is exactly why rape is such difficult case: because in many cases you just can't proof anything. That's why prevention is far more important than searching for court room solution.

 

[UFOROMANTIC]

If you don't think that should be the person who uses the hyperbole's problem or concern then you're wrong.

It is my opinion on a subjective matter and thus I can't be wrong. Nor can you be wrong for that matter. All that can be determined is that you and I have a difference of opinion on a subjective topic.

No, but you can quite easily be a piece of fucking garbage for having that opinion. You can also be a fucking idiot for having such an opinion. It fucking amazes me how you look at every fucking argument placed before you, and simply proceed to bash your fucking head against a brick fucking wall, and still have this smug sense of superiority about it. Every time you open your stupid fucking mouth and let the garbage pour forth, people shred your "opinions" to a goddamn pulp, but still you persist.

Your presenting your opinion about my character/thoughts as fact, when in reality its just your opinion. That said, I strongly disagree with your opinion about my character.

How "kind" of you to edit your post and remove the two sentences about how you hate me and wish I died in a fire. /sarcasm

Normally I don't like to weigh in on other people's discussions on a board like this, but in all sincerity, you're behaving like a right ass if you will continue to defend using the word "rape" in a casual, jocular context, and I guarantee you aren't making any friends here for defending "your opinion" on the "subjective matter" of rape, especially in light of an article like this. All you're doing is making yourself out to be some emotionless automaton that cares more about semantics than people. Nobody is impressed by your grasp of logic, however sound or unsound it may be. Moral relativism doesn't really stand up in the real world, and I hope that maybe this is adequately demonstrating that point to you.
How about not using the word because it offends massive swathes of people, myself included? It's really as simple as that.

 

[axlryder]

Yeah, I fail to see how this is any different than a victim of torture or one who had witnessed the murder of someone dear to them at a young age. All of these things are emotionally traumatic on a deep level and will likely fuck you up for the rest of your life. Rape isn't special in that regard. At least, not so special that I'm suddenly going to treat it with some kind of new-found "respect". I never used the word rape colloquially anyway, but this doesn't really change my perspective on anything.

Many perceive rape as an act in which the perpetrator merely wants to sexually and/or swiftly gratify themselves. Therefore, how can it be so traumatising?

A number of rapists will use any verbal, physical means they can to make the victim feel as degraded as possible. Inflicted degradation is how they stimulate a sense of power over the victim, as well as (possibly) a form of externally sadomasochistic, sexual gratification.

Rape is about using sex as a tool of dominance.

Such methods include degrading language (worthless, ****, slut) sodomy, urination, defecation, spitting, slapping, hair-pulling and weaponry.

This is made more effective by the victims body being biologically self-stimulating during rape, regardless of resistance.

When women are raped, they?re being conversely reminded of how men have and in some cases still perceive women. Weak, stupid, sexual objects.

Some women are aware of the implications while BEING raped. Potential pregnancy, injustice (victim-blaming) and the intolerance they may receive. Such knowledge causes the experience to be even more upsetting.

These things are what embody the horror of rape.

It?s not solely the experience, It?s the numerous implications and how rape victims are treated by society.

first of all, singling out woman specifically makes me take your view less seriously, as both men and woman can be and are raped.

Secondly, there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur. It can be an offense that leaves no significant emotional scars on the victim (they were drunk and don't even remember it happening), or result trauma deep enough to warrant suicide or insanity. People's reaction to rape is simply an extension of the trauma of rape. That still doesn't make it special. If a child witnesses his parent's torturous murder, not only will he have to live with that trauma, but he will then be an orphan, where is fate could be very grim in the wrong circumstances (try not to look at this from a first world perspective). I'm not saying victim blaming is okay or not a problem, simply that it doesn't suddenly elevate rape into some special level of awfulness to me.

thirdly, I never said it wasn't traumatic (I never even implied it). I merely said it wasn't more traumatic that the other atrocious things that happen to people around the world on a daily basis or "special" to me in some regard. Rape is shitty. So are a lot of other things. To even feel the need to make the points you made was a presumptuous inclination and a wasteful one. Wasteful of both my and your time.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Normally I don't like to weigh in on other people's discussions on a board like this, but in all sincerity, you're behaving like a right ass if you will continue to defend using the word "rape" in a casual, jocular context,

That is your opinion I guess.

and I guarantee you aren't making any friends here for defending "your opinion" on the "subjective matter" of rape,

Thanks, but I wasn't looking to comment on this thread is the hopes of making friends, I was hoping to comment on this thread to express my opinion on a very emotionally charged subject.

especially in light of an article like this. All you're doing is making yourself out to be some emotionless automaton that cares more about semantics than people. Nobody is impressed by your grasp of logic, however sound or unsound it may be.

I guess it's fortunate for me that I'm not trying to impress anybody. Instead what I am trying to do, is express my opinion, and also point out how an opinion on a subjective matter is neither right or wrong.

Moral relativism doesn't really stand up in the real world,

I disagree.

How about not using the word because it offends massive swathes of people, myself included?

I've already [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.379898.14940554] covered the subject of censorship on Xbox live.

 

[Elithraradril]

Moral relativism doesn't really stand up in the real world

It not only stands up, it defines the real world. 'Real world', with 'real people' is BASED on moral relativity, personal hierarchy of values. There is no such thing as absolute morality, at least not in non-totalitarian systems

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

Yeah, I fail to see how this is any different than a victim of torture or one who had witnessed the murder of someone dear to them at a young age. All of these things are emotionally traumatic on a deep level and will likely fuck you up for the rest of your life. Rape isn't special in that regard. At least, not so special that I'm suddenly going to treat it with some kind of new-found "respect". I never used the word rape colloquially anyway, but this doesn't really change my perspective on anything.

Many perceive rape as an act in which the perpetrator merely wants to sexually and/or swiftly gratify themselves. Therefore, how can it be so traumatising?

A number of rapists will use any verbal, physical means they can to make the victim feel as degraded as possible. Inflicted degradation is how they stimulate a sense of power over the victim, as well as (possibly) a form of externally sadomasochistic, sexual gratification.

Rape is about using sex as a tool of dominance.

Such methods include degrading language (worthless, ****, slut) sodomy, urination, defecation, spitting, slapping, hair-pulling and weaponry.

This is made more effective by the victims body being biologically self-stimulating during rape, regardless of resistance.

When women are raped, they?re being conversely reminded of how men have and in some cases still perceive women. Weak, stupid, sexual objects.

Some women are aware of the implications while BEING raped. Potential pregnancy, injustice (victim-blaming) and the intolerance they may receive. Such knowledge causes the experience to be even more upsetting.

These things are what embody the horror of rape.

It?s not solely the experience, It?s the numerous implications and how rape victims are treated by society.

first of all, singling out woman specifically makes me take your view less seriously, as both men and woman can be and are raped.

Secondly, there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur. It can be an offense that leaves no significant emotional scars on the victim (they were drunk and don't even remember it happening), or result trauma deep enough to warrant suicide or insanity. People's reaction to rape is simply an extension of the trauma of rape. That still doesn't make it special. If a child witnesses his parent's torturous murder, not only will he have to live with that trauma, but he will then be an orphan, where is fate could be very grim in the wrong circumstances (try not to look at this from a first world perspective). I'm not saying victim blaming is okay or not a problem, simply that it doesn't suddenly elevate rape into some special level of awfulness to me.

thirdly, I never said it wasn't traumatic (I never even implied it). I merely said it wasn't more traumatic that the other atrocious things that happen to people around the world on a daily basis or "special" to me in some regard. Rape is shitty. So are a lot of other things. To even feel the need to make the points you made was a presumptuous inclination and a wasteful one. Wasteful of both my and your time.

Overall, I'm a little confused. Perhaps you should have been more specific in what you desired? You requested to know why others think rape is uniquely traumatising, so I humbly gave you an individualistic answer solely based on that description.

I know both men and women can be raped. I merely pointed out that there are societal suggestions when a woman is being raped by a man.

I know there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur, and I wonder why you didn't think of that when you wrote your aforementioned comment on this article.

I never said rape was "special"... but then (snort) this isn't a competition. Both are traumatizing, that's what's important... obviously. However, I do believe rape is more consequential/presents more implications.

I never said you didn't understand why rape was traumatic.

The suggestion that this was a waste of both of our time came across as a needless addition, so I'll pretend I didn't read that to avoid further bewilderment.

 

[UFOROMANTIC]

Normally I don't like to weigh in on other people's discussions on a board like this, but in all sincerity, you're behaving like a right ass if you will continue to defend using the word "rape" in a casual, jocular context,

That is your opinion I guess.

and I guarantee you aren't making any friends here for defending "your opinion" on the "subjective matter" of rape,

Thanks, but I wasn't looking to comment on this thread is the hopes of making friends, I was hoping to comment on this thread to express my opinion on a very emotionally charged subject.

especially in light of an article like this. All you're doing is making yourself out to be some emotionless automaton that cares more about semantics than people. Nobody is impressed by your grasp of logic, however sound or unsound it may be.

I guess it's fortunate for me that I'm not trying to impress anybody. Instead what I am trying to do, is express my opinion, and also point out how an opinion on a subjective matter is neither right or wrong.

Moral relativism doesn't really stand up in the real world,

I disagree.

How about not using the word because it offends massive swathes of people, myself included?

I've already [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.379898.14940554] covered the subject of censorship on Xbox live.

So, you aren't advocating the usage of it, just defending people's usage of it however they choose to use it? That seems fair enough to me. I am of the opinion that we should be considerate to other people's feelings. The danger of exercising moral relativism in the real world is that since not everyone agrees with that you're saying, the common language can devolve easily into violence. This is why I have a big problem with most religion, actually. And now that I think about it, moral relativism accounts for the whole of society.
Societies exist and gather based upon a mutual understanding of values and common interests, as do sub and countercultures. I guess you may be exercising an unpopular opinion, and now that I think about it, though I may not agree with everything you have to say, you have my respect for sticking to your guns. I just hope that you are also open to other points of view, as there is nothing worse than being in an echo chamber where all one does is agrees with one's self. Really, what I think is really important here is not whether or not we agree, but that the conversation is taking place at all.

EDIT: ugh, I think of "fair enough" as a weasel word (phrase?). It comes off as being condescending I meant to say "okay then".

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So, you aren't advocating the usage of it, just defending people's usage of it however they choose to use it?

Yep, that's about right.

That seems fair enough to me. I am of the opinion that we should be considerate to other people's feelings. The danger of exercising moral relativism in the real world is that since not everyone agrees with that you're saying, the common language can devolve easily into violence.

While that is possible, I think we should remember what we are discussing....people using offensive language on Xbox live and PlayStation online. If we were discussing what are the right policies of the U.N. and what should the U.N. and E.U. being doing to stop what is going on in Syria or Mali, I could understand why you may dislike moral relativism. However, lets remember that we are just discussing trash talking online.

This is why I have a big problem with most religion, actually. And now that I think about it, moral relativism accounts for the whole of society.
Societies exist and gather based upon a mutual understanding of values and common interests, as do sub and countercultures. I guess you may be exercising an unpopular opinion, and now that I think about it, though I may not agree with everything you have to say, you have my respect for sticking to your guns. I just hope that you are also open to other points of view, as there is nothing worse than being in an echo chamber where all one does is agrees with one's self.

That's true, criticism can help show the holes in my or another persons point and it is a valuable tool to have.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive but, Mr. Anonymous, you need to stop having the mentality of a fucking victim. You need to stop being a coward, trying as you do to block out anything to do with rape. It only represses your emotions and thus gives them more control over you. You need to stop living in fear.

You can do it. You know how I know that you can do it? Because when I was a wee lad of 4 I was raped multiple times. I repressed it. It haunted my dreams for 14 years until I re-experienced it in its totality when I was 18. It was the fucking worse thing ever but it still wasn't enough. After that I had 5 imaginary death experiences that were at least as painful as my initial re-experience. Even after that I had to quit my university for a few semesters because I found myself to be now so incapable of dealing with any stress that I would go into a state of paralytic shock for hours on ends at the simplest demands. Hell, it's only now that I've finally got over my subconscious fear of intimacy that has prevented me from forming any kind of sexual relationship.

But you know what? I got the fuck over it. Sure, my rape is still an uncomfortable subject but I didn't have to spend two damn weeks of suffering to write this post. As for the subject of rape in general I'm fine with it. I don't get offended at the use of rape in media or in the news or by punk-ass kids on Xbox. That's because I've learned to accept it and integrate it. I am no longer afraid because instead of repressing and running away from my fears I have the courage to confront them.

Mr. Anonymous you, sir, are a damn coward right now. You're letting your fears govern your life and the more you continue to run away from your fears the more they will own you. You don't have to be a coward, Mr. Anonymous, you can find the courage to confront your fears if you just get out of the mentality of being permanently damaged. No matter what anyone tells you, you don't have to be a damaged man.

Dude...the fuck?

I was never raped, and hopefully I never will be. You were. You know how painful, how traumatizing it is. Why in the FUCK would you rip on this guy, or call him a coward? he made it clear that rape isn't something to "overcome" or a challenge you can grow from. its something you carry with you for the rest of you're life. clearly the two of you disagree, because you seem to think it's just another part of life, or something you can "roll with"

Im really happy that you no longer suffer from trauma or fears, but for christ's sake, have some sympathy for the guy. as someone who suffered as you did, try and understand, like I, and everyone else is.

Erm... it's kind of ironic that you asked the guy to have sympathy and at the same time criticized him for his emotional response. It's understandable that he gets pissed off when he sees in others the destructive weakness that he had to overcome himself. His criticism may seem harsh to us, but it is clearly aimed at helping that guy. I doubt you or I could possibly understand what either person went through, and I'm fairly certain we don't have a place in the conversation of how to deal with it. Plus, he apologized for the apparent insensitivity of his argument at the outset.

It?s also understandable someone would get pissed off at possibly the most potent display of selfishness, surreptitious cowardice and in-humanity I?ve ever witnessed in text. Feel free to utilize my insults/following descriptions of my actions against me, but nearly all objects in my living room are in pieces. I?m not joking, It made me that angry.

It could be to do with the fact my sister was raped and committed suicide, but somehow I also believe it to be in pertinence with my knowledge.

Whether or not he/she is a rape victim, that doesn?t justify his/her criticisms. Substantiality of rape and its implications varies from person to person?not all are identical.

As for your claim of ?destructive weakness,? you?re only reducing yourself to his/her level.

The concept of weakness in accordance to a traumatising situation, is a condition that?s only ?viable? in a still menially operational mindset. Rape (depending on the harshness) can potentially destroy the functionality of mind itself? therefore the cowardly concept of weakness isn?t always applicable.

My comment wasn't directed at you, but if you're demanding an apology I'll give you one anyway. I'm sorry that my comment emotionally disturbed you. That was not my intention. If that isn't enough then for God's sake I suggest that you just ignore the rest of this post and forget you ever read my post in the first place. I don't want any furniture destroyed on my account.

Spoiler

However, since it seemed like you wanted me to explain myself, then I'll try to put what I said into context.

As far as weakness goes... it is what it is, and I imagine anyone who has that sort of reaction certainly isn't going to call it a strength. There's a difference between blaming someone for being weak (basically what the commenter was doing, which I disagree with), and saying that one should try to fight one's weakness and overcome it. I'm not going to tell rape victims what to do.

However, if I find something emotionally disturbing and had an incredibly negative reaction to it, I'm not sure I'd like people coming around and telling me that "it's okay to admit that you're utterly powerless, you'll never be able to control it, it's not your fault." I'm not sure I'd want that kind of 'help'. Calling it psychic murder, or saying that rape is worse than murder seems to imply that the victim would be better off if they were murdered. I don't even know what to say about that except that it doesn't seem to have very good implications for rape victims, and that perhaps people shouldn't be perpetuating that idea. But I can't put myself in these peoples' shoes, so it might be completely different for them.

 

[axlryder]

Yeah, I fail to see how this is any different than a victim of torture or one who had witnessed the murder of someone dear to them at a young age. All of these things are emotionally traumatic on a deep level and will likely fuck you up for the rest of your life. Rape isn't special in that regard. At least, not so special that I'm suddenly going to treat it with some kind of new-found "respect". I never used the word rape colloquially anyway, but this doesn't really change my perspective on anything.

Many perceive rape as an act in which the perpetrator merely wants to sexually and/or swiftly gratify themselves. Therefore, how can it be so traumatising?

A number of rapists will use any verbal, physical means they can to make the victim feel as degraded as possible. Inflicted degradation is how they stimulate a sense of power over the victim, as well as (possibly) a form of externally sadomasochistic, sexual gratification.

Rape is about using sex as a tool of dominance.

Such methods include degrading language (worthless, ****, slut) sodomy, urination, defecation, spitting, slapping, hair-pulling and weaponry.

This is made more effective by the victims body being biologically self-stimulating during rape, regardless of resistance.

When women are raped, they?re being conversely reminded of how men have and in some cases still perceive women. Weak, stupid, sexual objects.

Some women are aware of the implications while BEING raped. Potential pregnancy, injustice (victim-blaming) and the intolerance they may receive. Such knowledge causes the experience to be even more upsetting.

These things are what embody the horror of rape.

It?s not solely the experience, It?s the numerous implications and how rape victims are treated by society.

first of all, singling out woman specifically makes me take your view less seriously, as both men and woman can be and are raped.

Secondly, there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur. It can be an offense that leaves no significant emotional scars on the victim (they were drunk and don't even remember it happening), or result trauma deep enough to warrant suicide or insanity. People's reaction to rape is simply an extension of the trauma of rape. That still doesn't make it special. If a child witnesses his parent's torturous murder, not only will he have to live with that trauma, but he will then be an orphan, where is fate could be very grim in the wrong circumstances (try not to look at this from a first world perspective). I'm not saying victim blaming is okay or not a problem, simply that it doesn't suddenly elevate rape into some special level of awfulness to me.

thirdly, I never said it wasn't traumatic (I never even implied it). I merely said it wasn't more traumatic that the other atrocious things that happen to people around the world on a daily basis or "special" to me in some regard. Rape is shitty. So are a lot of other things. To even feel the need to make the points you made was a presumptuous inclination and a wasteful one. Wasteful of both my and your time.

Overall, I'm a little confused. Perhaps you should have been more specific in what you desired? You requested to know why others think rape is uniquely traumatising, so I humbly gave you an individualistic answer solely based on that description.

I know both men and women can be raped. I merely pointed out that there are societal suggestions when a woman is being raped by a man.

I know there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur, and I wonder why you didn't think of that when you wrote your aforementioned comment on this article.

I never said rape was "special"... but then (snort) this isn't a competition. Both are traumatizing, that's what's important... obviously. However, I do believe rape is more consequential/presents more implications.

I never said you didn't understand why rape was traumatic.

The suggestion that this was a waste of both of our time came across as a needless addition, so I'll pretend I didn't read that to avoid further bewilderment.

I didn't request people to explain anything to me. Saying "I fail to see" wasn't meant to be an invitation for someone to explain their reasoning. It can be used rhetorically (as evinced by the rest of my statement that shows I'd already drawn a conclusion on the matter).

There are obviously distinct societal implications when a man is raped by a woman, too. They're not good ones either. Why do you think men are so unwilling to come forward when they've been victims of sexual abuse? but I guess you didn't think that was worth mentioning. Also, what do you mean "I should have considered that", in regards to the range of circumstances? I made my whole point in consideration OF that fact. I'm sorry I had to spell that out for you. Rape can be very bad, yes, but people often cite examples of "rape" and why it's so prevalent and then instantly liken it to this brutalizing that you pointed out. However, date rape is by far the most common type of rape and doesn't often fit that brutal profile. I also often see people act as though the effects of murder or attempted murder is something that can be brushed off or some kind of rare thing that can be marginalized. Where I come from, murder is rather common and I'm not going to presume that date rape is worse than some of the things people I've known (and even I myself) have gone through. Hell, I've known adult men who killed themselves over some of the crap that happened to them. I've known of woman who had their unborn child stabbed and killed.

Of course there's the purported overall societal implications of rape and the idea that flippant use of the word/concept perpetuates it in our culture and that its use is a reminder/confirmation of woman's objectification in our culture, yadda yadda. I'm aware of these ideas, but that still doesn't change my view on rape. I think it just means there's a problem with our culture. I'd also argue that all the violence in our culture is also a problem and might actually perpetuate violence, but nobody seems to care about that. Though, I don't think that should result in censorship, just as I also don't think our culture's problems with rape are any kind of justification to keep media involving rape out of the general adult public's hands and I don't believe people should colloquially use the term rape/murder/torture/etc. in a video game or tell violent jokes to people they aren't familiar with. So my position on rape is about the same as my position on murder or torture. Just because other idiots might find various uses of the concept to be some kind of validation for their practice of sexism/rape (a potentiality that I'm somewhat skeptical of) it doesn't change my view on the general idea of rape. It just makes me think they're idiots.

Ultimately I'm really not trying to argue what is more consequential. Of course, initially I hadn't even brought up its consequence, which is another issue entirely that I touched on above. Regardless, I think there are plenty of things in this world just as bad as rape (in all its various forms). I'm not going to treat the idea of it with a special amount of care in that regard (as I said before). We agree to disagree.

Also, this was a waste of both of our time. You can pretend not to have read it, but you still did. I'd recommend not responding though, as this will most likely devolve into bickering.

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

Gotta love the escapist comunity, always competing to see who can be the smuggest, most pretentious poster ever.
Look guys, I think the point that some of the people here are trying to make is that: Just because some people are offended or troubled by some word, doesnt mean it should never be used. Cause if we did that we wouldnt be able to say anything.

 

[Ramzal]

I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive but, Mr. Anonymous, you need to stop having the mentality of a fucking victim. You need to stop being a coward, trying as you do to block out anything to do with rape. It only represses your emotions and thus gives them more control over you. You need to stop living in fear.

You can do it. You know how I know that you can do it? Because when I was a wee lad of 4 I was raped multiple times. I repressed it. It haunted my dreams for 14 years until I re-experienced it in its totality when I was 18. It was the fucking worse thing ever but it still wasn't enough. After that I had 5 imaginary death experiences that were at least as painful as my initial re-experience. Even after that I had to quit my university for a few semesters because I found myself to be now so incapable of dealing with any stress that I would go into a state of paralytic shock for hours on ends at the simplest demands. Hell, it's only now that I've finally got over my subconscious fear of intimacy that has prevented me from forming any kind of sexual relationship.

But you know what? I got the fuck over it. Sure, my rape is still an uncomfortable subject but I didn't have to spend two damn weeks of suffering to write this post. As for the subject of rape in general I'm fine with it. I don't get offended at the use of rape in media or in the news or by punk-ass kids on Xbox. That's because I've learned to accept it and integrate it. I am no longer afraid because instead of repressing and running away from my fears I have the courage to confront them.

Mr. Anonymous you, sir, are a damn coward right now. You're letting your fears govern your life and the more you continue to run away from your fears the more they will own you. You don't have to be a coward, Mr. Anonymous, you can find the courage to confront your fears if you just get out of the mentality of being permanently damaged. No matter what anyone tells you, you don't have to be a damaged man.

Dude...the fuck?

I was never raped, and hopefully I never will be. You were. You know how painful, how traumatizing it is. Why in the FUCK would you rip on this guy, or call him a coward? he made it clear that rape isn't something to "overcome" or a challenge you can grow from. its something you carry with you for the rest of you're life. clearly the two of you disagree, because you seem to think it's just another part of life, or something you can "roll with"

Im really happy that you no longer suffer from trauma or fears, but for christ's sake, have some sympathy for the guy. as someone who suffered as you did, try and understand, like I, and everyone else is.

Erm... it's kind of ironic that you asked the guy to have sympathy and at the same time criticized him for his emotional response. It's understandable that he gets pissed off when he sees in others the destructive weakness that he had to overcome himself. His criticism may seem harsh to us, but it is clearly aimed at helping that guy. I doubt you or I could possibly understand what either person went through, and I'm fairly certain we don't have a place in the conversation of how to deal with it. Plus, he apologized for the apparent insensitivity of his argument at the outset.

Yeah...to be completely honest, I didn't read every page of comments after reading the article (and didn't see the apology come up) and so when I first read Iron Lightning's post I was a little...excited. I did go back and edit my post. so hopefully that will clear things up.

I agree with Iron Lightning. Part of growing up is to take all of these things that happen to you and grow past them. Bad things happen. We have to accept them and move on. Even more, I have to ask everyone something. Stop having pity for us or anyone who has gone through this. Yes, it is terrible to happen. But we do not deserve any special treatment for the short comings in our lives. People are strong to move past this. Allow us to without thinking we are broken, or that we will suffer forever.

Whether or not you are a rape victim, that doesn?t justify your harsh criticisms. Substantiality of rape and its implications varies from person to person?not all are identical to yours.

Allow me to say that I do not think the Author needs you to champion his cause or words. He's already responded to me about my responses. I stand by them, and I stand by my words. Needless to say, that no, no ones is identical. However, pain is pain. It's something that can be over come. It's not easy but it can be done. I don't treat rape as more worse than the majority of things in this world.

And honestly, the Author himself has said he made some progress. If that is true or not is a situation with his life, however in the context of the article, it doesn't show---at all that he has. In reading it, it comes off as someone still constantly haunted from triggers almost every day. And honestly, if that were the case, would you think that "Standing up for him" would help? No, that only builds a dependency on the attendance of outside help and should that help not be around it can lead to dangerous outcomes.

But you know what? I have a different opinion than the majority of people who just give him a pat on the back and a "I am so sorry for you" even though they A) Don't know him. Or B) Look at the other side of the fence and notice that there are other ways to look at the situation by people it happened to. Or my favorite C) "I never knew it was like that... You've given me a lot to think of"

Inspiring others to think is great. A rare thing to accomplish even. But do you mean to tell me that our world is so pampering these days that no one knows what it's like to have something horrible happen to them? Or the fact that we put such large horse blinders on that people won't look into a subject where bad things happen to people, but have an "Eye opening" experience when they read an extremely pathos driven article about one owns experience with it, and taking that one persons experience with it as everyone else who has gone through with it?

You say that it's an experience that differs, and it's true. It does. But honestly, people who don't have these thing happen to them--read something like this article and use it as a baseline as how the average person who's been raped is, because they're too busy to take in an opinion that differs, or research it, or too busy trying to empathize with a situation that they don't even begin to understand and just take the first thing they read as concrete.

So honestly, how I see an article that is written in a way that will be taken under a general sense is my own business, not yours.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

Yeah, I fail to see how this is any different than a victim of torture or one who had witnessed the murder of someone dear to them at a young age. All of these things are emotionally traumatic on a deep level and will likely fuck you up for the rest of your life. Rape isn't special in that regard. At least, not so special that I'm suddenly going to treat it with some kind of new-found "respect". I never used the word rape colloquially anyway, but this doesn't really change my perspective on anything.

Many perceive rape as an act in which the perpetrator merely wants to sexually and/or swiftly gratify themselves. Therefore, how can it be so traumatising?

A number of rapists will use any verbal, physical means they can to make the victim feel as degraded as possible. Inflicted degradation is how they stimulate a sense of power over the victim, as well as (possibly) a form of externally sadomasochistic, sexual gratification.

Rape is about using sex as a tool of dominance.

Such methods include degrading language (worthless, ****, slut) sodomy, urination, defecation, spitting, slapping, hair-pulling and weaponry.

This is made more effective by the victims body being biologically self-stimulating during rape, regardless of resistance.

When women are raped, they?re being conversely reminded of how men have and in some cases still perceive women. Weak, stupid, sexual objects.

Some women are aware of the implications while BEING raped. Potential pregnancy, injustice (victim-blaming) and the intolerance they may receive. Such knowledge causes the experience to be even more upsetting.

These things are what embody the horror of rape.

It?s not solely the experience, It?s the numerous implications and how rape victims are treated by society.

first of all, singling out woman specifically makes me take your view less seriously, as both men and woman can be and are raped.

Secondly, there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur. It can be an offense that leaves no significant emotional scars on the victim (they were drunk and don't even remember it happening), or result trauma deep enough to warrant suicide or insanity. People's reaction to rape is simply an extension of the trauma of rape. That still doesn't make it special. If a child witnesses his parent's torturous murder, not only will he have to live with that trauma, but he will then be an orphan, where is fate could be very grim in the wrong circumstances (try not to look at this from a first world perspective). I'm not saying victim blaming is okay or not a problem, simply that it doesn't suddenly elevate rape into some special level of awfulness to me.

thirdly, I never said it wasn't traumatic (I never even implied it). I merely said it wasn't more traumatic that the other atrocious things that happen to people around the world on a daily basis or "special" to me in some regard. Rape is shitty. So are a lot of other things. To even feel the need to make the points you made was a presumptuous inclination and a wasteful one. Wasteful of both my and your time.

Overall, I'm a little confused. Perhaps you should have been more specific in what you desired? You requested to know why others think rape is uniquely traumatising, so I humbly gave you an individualistic answer solely based on that description.

I know both men and women can be raped. I merely pointed out that there are societal suggestions when a woman is being raped by a man.

I know there's an enormous range of circumstances under which "rape" can occur, and I wonder why you didn't think of that when you wrote your aforementioned comment on this article.

I never said rape was "special"... but then (snort) this isn't a competition. Both are traumatizing, that's what's important... obviously. However, I do believe rape is more consequential/presents more implications.

I never said you didn't understand why rape was traumatic.

The suggestion that this was a waste of both of our time came across as a needless addition, so I'll pretend I didn't read that to avoid further bewilderment.

I didn't request people to explain anything to me. Saying "I fail to see" wasn't meant to be an invitation for someone to explain their reasoning. It can be used rhetorically (as evinced by the rest of my statement that shows I'd already drawn a conclusion on the matter).

There are obviously distinct societal implications when a man is raped by a woman, too. They're not good ones either. Why do you think men are so unwilling to come forward when they've been victims of sexual abuse? but I guess you didn't think that was worth mentioning. Also, what do you mean "I should have considered that", in regards to the range of circumstances? I made my whole point in consideration OF that fact. I'm sorry I had to spell that out for you. Rape can be very bad, yes, but people often cite examples of "rape" and why it's so prevalent and then instantly liken it to this brutalizing that you pointed out. However, date rape is by far the most common type of rape and doesn't often fit that brutal profile. I also often see people act as though the effects of murder or attempted murder is something that can be brushed off or some kind of rare thing that can be marginalized. Where I come from, murder is rather common and I'm not going to presume that date rape is worse than some of the things people I've known (and even I myself) have gone through. Hell, I've known adult men who killed themselves over some of the crap that happened to them. I've known of woman who had their unborn child stabbed and killed.

Of course there's the purported overall societal implications of rape and the idea that flippant use of the word/concept perpetuates it in our culture and that its use is a reminder/confirmation of woman's objectification in our culture, yadda yadda. I'm aware of these ideas, but that still doesn't change my view on rape. I think it just means there's a problem with our culture. I'd also argue that all the violence in our culture is also a problem and might actually perpetuate violence, but nobody seems to care about that. Though, I don't think that should result in censorship, just as I also don't think our culture's problems with rape are any kind of justification to keep media involving rape out of the general adult public's hands and I don't believe people should colloquially use the term rape/murder/torture/etc. in a video game or tell violent jokes to people they aren't familiar with. So my position on rape is about the same as my position on murder or torture. Just because other idiots might find various uses of the concept to be some kind of validation for their practice of sexism/rape (a potentiality that I'm somewhat skeptical of) it doesn't change my view on the general idea of rape. It just makes me think they're idiots.

Ultimately I'm really not trying to argue what is more consequential. Of course, initially I hadn't even brought up its consequence, which is another issue entirely that I touched on above. Regardless, I think there are plenty of things in this world just as bad as rape (in all its various forms). I'm not going to treat the idea of it with a special amount of care in that regard (as I said before). We agree to disagree.

Also, this was a waste of both of our time. You can pretend not to have read it, but you still did. I'd recommend not responding though, as this will most likely devolve into bickering.

Before we part, I DO actually have a lot to say about men who are raped to. Really, I do. I'm aware both can have negative societal implications, and I dreaded you would take notice of my reluctance to add that I also agree to disagree. It's clear to me that despite you don't see rape as anything special pertaining to traumatisation, you're still well-aware of why it deserves to be labelled so, so fair enough.

Thank you for at least keeping your comments comparatively formal and explanatory.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive but, Mr. Anonymous, you need to stop having the mentality of a fucking victim. You need to stop being a coward, trying as you do to block out anything to do with rape. It only represses your emotions and thus gives them more control over you. You need to stop living in fear.

You can do it. You know how I know that you can do it? Because when I was a wee lad of 4 I was raped multiple times. I repressed it. It haunted my dreams for 14 years until I re-experienced it in its totality when I was 18. It was the fucking worse thing ever but it still wasn't enough. After that I had 5 imaginary death experiences that were at least as painful as my initial re-experience. Even after that I had to quit my university for a few semesters because I found myself to be now so incapable of dealing with any stress that I would go into a state of paralytic shock for hours on ends at the simplest demands. Hell, it's only now that I've finally got over my subconscious fear of intimacy that has prevented me from forming any kind of sexual relationship.

But you know what? I got the fuck over it. Sure, my rape is still an uncomfortable subject but I didn't have to spend two damn weeks of suffering to write this post. As for the subject of rape in general I'm fine with it. I don't get offended at the use of rape in media or in the news or by punk-ass kids on Xbox. That's because I've learned to accept it and integrate it. I am no longer afraid because instead of repressing and running away from my fears I have the courage to confront them.

Mr. Anonymous you, sir, are a damn coward right now. You're letting your fears govern your life and the more you continue to run away from your fears the more they will own you. You don't have to be a coward, Mr. Anonymous, you can find the courage to confront your fears if you just get out of the mentality of being permanently damaged. No matter what anyone tells you, you don't have to be a damaged man.

Dude...the fuck?

I was never raped, and hopefully I never will be. You were. You know how painful, how traumatizing it is. Why in the FUCK would you rip on this guy, or call him a coward? he made it clear that rape isn't something to "overcome" or a challenge you can grow from. its something you carry with you for the rest of you're life. clearly the two of you disagree, because you seem to think it's just another part of life, or something you can "roll with"

Im really happy that you no longer suffer from trauma or fears, but for christ's sake, have some sympathy for the guy. as someone who suffered as you did, try and understand, like I, and everyone else is.

Erm... it's kind of ironic that you asked the guy to have sympathy and at the same time criticized him for his emotional response. It's understandable that he gets pissed off when he sees in others the destructive weakness that he had to overcome himself. His criticism may seem harsh to us, but it is clearly aimed at helping that guy. I doubt you or I could possibly understand what either person went through, and I'm fairly certain we don't have a place in the conversation of how to deal with it. Plus, he apologized for the apparent insensitivity of his argument at the outset.

Yeah...to be completely honest, I didn't read every page of comments after reading the article (and didn't see the apology come up) and so when I first read Iron Lightning's post I was a little...excited. I did go back and edit my post. so hopefully that will clear things up.

I agree with Iron Lightning. Part of growing up is to take all of these things that happen to you and grow past them. Bad things happen. We have to accept them and move on. Even more, I have to ask everyone something. Stop having pity for us or anyone who has gone through this. Yes, it is terrible to happen. But we do not deserve any special treatment for the short comings in our lives. People are strong to move past this. Allow us to without thinking we are broken, or that we will suffer forever.

Whether or not you are a rape victim, that doesn?t justify your harsh criticisms. Substantiality of rape and its implications varies from person to person?not all are identical to yours.

Allow me to say that I do not think the Author needs you to champion his cause or words. He's already responded to me about my responses. I stand by them, and I stand by my words. Needless to say, that no, no ones is identical. However, pain is pain. It's something that can be over come. It's not easy but it can be done. I don't treat rape as more worse than the majority of things in this world.

And honestly, the Author himself has said he made some progress. If that is true or not is a situation with his life, however in the context of the article, it doesn't show---at all that he has. In reading it, it comes off as someone still constantly haunted from triggers almost every day. And honestly, if that were the case, would you think that "Standing up for him" would help? No, that only builds a dependency on the attendance of outside help and should that help not be around it can lead to dangerous outcomes.

But you know what? I have a different opinion than the majority of people who just give him a pat on the back and a "I am so sorry for you" even though they A) Don't know him. Or B) Look at the other side of the fence and notice that there are other ways to look at the situation by people it happened to. Or my favorite C) "I never knew it was like that... You've given me a lot to think of"

Inspiring others to think is great. A rare thing to accomplish even. But do you mean to tell me that our world is so pampering these days that no one knows what it's like to have something horrible happen to them? Or the fact that we put such large horse blinders on that people won't look into a subject where bad things happen to people, but have an "Eye opening" experience when they read an extremely pathos driven article about one owns experience with it, and taking that one persons experience with it as everyone else who has gone through with it?

You say that it's an experience that differs, and it's true. It does. But honestly, people who don't have these thing happen to them--read something like this article and use it as a baseline as how the average person who's been raped is, because they're too busy to take in an opinion that differs, or research it, or too busy trying to empathize with a situation that they don't even begin to understand and just take the first thing they read as concrete.

So honestly, how I see an article that is written in a way that will be taken under a general sense is my own business, not yours.

Uh-uh, my sister was raped and committed suicide (I know I don't deserve any sympathy,) so I do feel like I have "some" abstract cause to speak out. We would often discuss her experience before she died. I don't see myself as his "knight in shining armour," sorry if I came across like that.

 

[Terminal Blue]

You're so wrong I even don't know where to begin explaining. If you have no proof that this particular man committed the crime, you have no right to arrest him at all. Without proof you have no warrant, no case, no trial.

If you already had proof, there would be no need for a trial at all, it would be a technicality..

What you need is evidence. Testimony is evidence, if the police feel the testimony is strong enough, they are perfectly within their rights to request a trial.

It is not the job of the police to establish guilt. I don't know what fucked up police state you live in or want to live in, but that's actually a very good thing for civil liberties.

Or ...you want to create a country where you can put someone in jail only because, one person said he's a rapist?

You already live in one. You always have, and it goes for any violent crime.

If I stab myself and claim someone else did it, the police don't need to "proove" it, they just need to gather enough evidence to make a trial possible. Unless evidence comes up showing that I self-inflicted the injuries, the person I accuse will be put in custody. Because they may have stabbed someone.

The trial will then determine guilt.

That is why it is a very serious crime to accuse someone of a crime they didn't commit. The system acknowledges that it can cause significant harm and thus it carries a very heavy penalty, just like stabbing someone. As I said, what more do you want? Why do you want the rules to be bent to ensure that this one pretty uncommon crime will never happen?

Guy will spend months behind bars, just because you believe victim more than him?

It is not about who you believe. The fact that you've reduced it to this is pathetic "team blue" bullshit.

Police work is not even meant to factor in who you personally believe. There is a standard procedure, and if there is evidence that a crime occurred and the person accused cannot demonstrate that they did not commit such a crime there is reason enough to send them to court.

Being presumed innocent does not mean you cannot be placed in custody. If that were the case, noone would ever be placed in custody.

No, there isn't if you have no DNA match etc.. You still have nothing pointing Mr X except word of Ms Y.

A DNA match doesn't "prove" anything either. It can strongly evidence that you have lied if you claim to have had no contact with the victim, but if you had actually raped an adult you shouldn't be claiming that anyway - not when it's so easy to get off by simply attacking your victims character, sexual history or implied sexual preferences.

Again, this is just evidence. The police are not there to speculate about evidence, just to gather it and prepare it for trial.

I'm sorry, but this is exactly why rape is such difficult case: because in many cases you just can't proof anything. That's why prevention is far more important than searching for court room solution.

What "prevention" would you suggest?

I have a feeling this is going to be either hilariously naive, or is going to make me want to kill someone. Will be interesting to find out which.