The rampant Sexualization in videogames

[clippen05]

I feel like people just make these threads nowadays to stroke their white-knight e-peen. "Yes, yes, I seem concerned and knowledgeable about the problems of gaming; Aren't I just so great for pointing out how flawed big breasts in DOA are!"

Did you read the opening post? The satire in it was... Poor to say the least.

Also: White Knight? Fine. You know what, I should make a group. White Knights Associated. Because guess what?

If being called a white knight is what I get for not acting like a ****, then a white knight I am. If that is what being a male feminist is now, fine. I guess I am one.

Am I supposed to be insulted?

Mate, there are issues in gaming. A five year old could see that. Some people don't like it. We don't like it for whatever reasons. I am not great for pointing out the issues in modern gaming, as I said anyone can see them. They are, like the tits in dead or alive, gratuitous and bouncing everywhere (Not that dead or alive is the issue at all.). I guess, for people like me, its more "Why the fuck are you guys pretending there is not an issue?" because, well, the people who post in these threads are the "White Knights" and the assholes (You are someone who is just here to mock the white knights. You are not an asshole. I am not insulting you.). Which is bad, because it makes people like myself think there are only two options (White Knight, Asshole) and the assholes think there are only two options (Asshole, White Knight (Who are assholes, apparently)). Whereas most people are like you.

And just don't give a damn either way.

I wasn't being entirely serious in my post; I know its hard to notice over the internet, but I didn't mean any ill-will towards you or any other creators of these types of threads. But, as anyone could tell you, there have been so many discussions on the topic in the past month. So many; its probably one of the most popular topics on the forum. I feel that the only reason people would bring it up again is to, as I said, show that they are so 'thoughtful' and 'caring' toward women in gaming; they want to join the "I care" bandwagon and they want to show they care, but in actuality, they care little for the cause. Yes, there are people like you who legitimately care. But, the topic has been discussed to death; in all the discussions it is generally resolved that, yes, change is needed. But yet, here we are again. What more can be said???

But, because you mentioned that there clearly is a problem, I somewhat disagree. While yes, some games have a problem with sexualization, but does Gaming as a whole? I would disagree. If I look at all my recent, big-name games that have females in them, I fail to find much sexualization.

Mass Effect Series? A little. Samara is oversexualized, but all the other characters I can think of are not.

Fallout? Skyrim? Maybe a little bit? Female armour types are more a bit revealing, but not on the levels of other games like that one MMO (I don't remember the name) with level 70 panty armour. Bodies are not heavily sexualized

Bioshock Infinite? Nope again. Elizabeth is more about personality the sex appeal

Red Dead Redemption? No,no,no once again, the female characters have well rounded characters and aren't sexualized. Aside from the prostitutes I guess. But they are prostitutes...

And that's really all my games with female main characters. But that's just me having a problem of not playing that many story-based games. But if I had to find one game...

Saints Row the third. YES, Woo, only took me my entire library to find one game with sexualized characters. So, whats that, 1 out of 6 game series that have sexualized characters. Now, 17% isn't great, but considering how small the same size is I'm sure that the number would be less for others' games collections. Do you consider 17% "rampant" sexualization?

There is a small niche of games that use rely on sex to sell. DOA, Lolipop chainsaw, Bayonetta, Dragon's Quest. That's what those games are. But mainstream gaming? Where is this, rampant sexualization you are talking about?

 

[CloudAtlas]

Not that I find PUAs any less reprehensible than you do, but I do find feminists more reprehensible than him.

What exactly is so reprehensible about feminists in general?

Their ideology is...
This should explain it fairly well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6qg8Up3PnU

I always thought that feminism was about gender equality, but what do I know...

 

[broca]

Lets see.

fem·i·nism
/ˈfeməˌnizəm/
Noun
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Feminism
The belief that women are and should be treated as potential intellectual equals and social equals to men. These people can be either male or female human beings, although the ideology is commonly (and perhaps falsely) associated mainly with women.

The basic idea of Feminism revolves around the principle that just because human bodies are designed to perform certain procreative functions, biological elements need not dictate intellectual and social functions, capabilities, and rights.

Feminism also, by its nature, embraces the belief that all people are entitled to freedom and liberty within reason--including equal civil rights--and that discrimination should not be made based on gender, sexual orientation, skin color, ethnicity, religion, culture, or lifestyle.

Feminists--and all persons interested in civil equality and intellectuality--are dedicated to fighting the ignorance that says people are controlled by and limited to their biology.
Feminism is the belief that all people are entitled to the same civil rights and liberties and can be intellectual equals regardless of gender. However, you should still hold the door for a feminist; this is known as respect or politeness and need have nothing whatever to do with gender discrimination.

Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
"Feminism is both an intellectual commitment and a political movement that seeks justice for women and the end of sexism in all forms. However, there are many different kinds of feminism. Feminists disagree about what sexism consists in, and what exactly ought to be done about it; they disagree about what it means to be a woman or a man and what social and political implications gender has or should have. Nonetheless, motivated by the quest for social justice, feminist inquiry provides a wide range of perspectives on social, cultural, economic, and political phenomena."
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-topics/

Merriam-Webster
"1. the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2. organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

Oxford Dictionaries
"The advocacy of women?s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/feminism

Wikipedia
"Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Of this four definitions, only one names equality (apart from equality for women) as a core part of feminism (and even there only as one of two possible definitions). Most agree that feminism is a movement for women. So either you're right and four credible sources are wrong, or you chose the definitions that reflects what you want feminism to be but that doesn't reflect what feminism is. Also, funny enough, according to wikipedia feminism is "is a collection of movements and ideologies"

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Your examples are terrible. I don't think anyone wants to fuck some nameless dwarf, or kratos.

Actually my ex would totally have fucked kratos. She was a bit... odd.

 

[Seydaman]

Well, yes. But the character of the game doesn't usually exist entirely on sexy. Nathan Drake is still a character even if I he is hot. Too often female characters are just sexy. And that's their character.

 

[deadish]

Can't be assed to read the whole thread, but another stereotype in the media is men being portrayed as bumbling idiots that need a women in their life to sort things out. Don't see much fuss about it. A discussion or two, but has never blown up into the farce that is this sexism in gaming BS. Then again this are men we are talking about, who ever "white knight" for men?

 

[Axzarious]

Sexualisation will always happen to men or women so long as humans have properly functioning gonads.

As the industry catches up, we will eventually see males being objectified for a female audience.

Still, I think a good portion of this argument is due to imagined slights and people only choosing what they want to believe and ignoring the whole picture.


Want to solve the problem permanently? Well, we can always use our amazing advantages in surgery to remove our gonads.

 

[generals3]

The real question then, is how much of an impact do video game characters have on this trend. I'd be more inclined to say it's the fashion industry, movies, TV, and social pressure. Us gamers are supposedly able to separate video game fiction from reality... Not to say that games have 0 impact.

Well for what it's worth i recently came across this study while looking for something else (i was quite surprised myself, it also blows up some of my arguments i made in these topics):

https://www.k-state.edu/psych/research/documents/BHbodemph08.pdf

"Overall, the results from this study suggest that when male participants played a video game that emphasized muscular
male bodies, they had an increase in their negative body-image. Specifically, these results showed that those who
played the video game, independent of condition, had a decrease in positive feelings toward their body, had a decrease
in their general body esteem, had a decrease in their positive attitudes toward muscularity, and had a decrease in the drive for muscularity. This suggests that the participant's affective and cognitive component of a negative body-image were significantly impacted by video game play. These findings support our hypotheses as well as the theorizing"

"The results of the current study suggest that women participants, after playing a video game that emphasized
the female body, felt significantly worse about their bodies. Specifically, it was found that women had a decrease in their positive feelings toward their body and a marginal decrease in their positive feelings of their sexual attractive-
ness. Interestingly, the results showed that there was not a significant change in the participant's body satisfaction
scores, which suggests that the affective component (body esteem) of the negative body-image is impacted, but not the cognitive component (body satisfaction). These results partially support the hypotheses, because it was predicted
that the video game would negatively influence the participant's body esteem and body satisfaction, however,
only the body esteem was impacted."

Apparently not only are men affected by muscular men in VG's but the impact also affects more of their body image components than sexy women does with women. We lose esteem and satisfaction while women only lose esteem.

 

[Bluelaughter]

I agree that the problem is not limited to video games, but comes from society as a whole. In countless other media, ads, billboards, magazines at the check-out counter at grocery store, there is rampant sexualization. Sex sells. I click on youtube videos and blogspam stories which I would otherwise have no interest in due to a tantalizing thumbnail, and immediately feel guilty afterwards, (sometimes gratified, keeping it real).

Is it really a problem that we focus so much on base pleasure? I'd say it depends on what your ideal society looks like. There is a huge lack of compassion, and not limited to gamers. Remember the advent of spam e-mails, with titles like "increase your penis size by 2 inches!", "She won't be able to resist you with your huge ..." etc? I'd be lying to say I didn't look at a ruler and try to imagine. Well imagine if every game was like that. In every game, you'd have female characters wowing over male characters with big 12-inch penises. Those characters would get the girls, while the supporting characters with smaller junk would heroically sacrifice themselves somewhere in game with the 12-incher and his woman paying a brief tribute on the character's grave before forgetting completely about him. Or the small junk guy would be relegated to comedic support, spurned by women. And so forth. Big dicks win the world; small dicks are the powerless enemies. Although games are awesome, it wouldn't surprise me if people started saying things like "I really liked video games at first, but all this focus on big dicks, and having a big penis just made me feel uncomfortable, so I ended up quitting." Or perhaps some people would not play at all, because they wouldn't want to get involved in a world like that.

I know some people don't mind being objectified like that, but it does cross a line eventually.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

I absolutely adore how the men who try to shift the focus of female outrage by pointing out how male characters are sexualized too, seem to share the universal and utterly hilarious delusion that Kratos or Marcus Phoenix actually attract a significant number of female fans.

Sorry, boys. If you want to make your point, I'm afraid you're going to have to point out some of those androgynous japanese characters you hate so much, not the testosterone poisoned he-men you wish you were. Sephiroth makes more fangirls in a day than Marcus Phoenix will ever have in his entire existence.

Those that say that are screwing up the argument.

It's not that men are sexualised as well, it's that the portrayal of men is sexist as well.

Games reinforce the archaic notion that "Heroism" is about Physical strength and violence based on obsolete gender roles.

Now before you say "It's still designed for males", yes, It's for males, just as magazines like Vogue are for women.

[Ok maybe not vogue, but magazines targeted at girls, usually teen, that imply this is how you should look]
That doesn't mean they're any less harmful.

The Jock that is a jock because jocks get all the girls would probably like us all to hold onto these archaic notions.

While I would like to see our society trend away from vain and petty concerns, I don't see men suffering from the same degree of body disphoria that women do. Maybe that's because men are allowed to be things besides pretty. How often do non-pretty women get to be anything in any kind of media vs men that get to be ugly and- strong, brave, smart, diplomatic, cunning, crafty, etc...

Actually that's changing for the worse

http://www.msoe.edu/life_at_msoe/current_student_resources/student_resources/counseling_services/newsletters_for_mental_health/body_image_dissatisfaction.shtml

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FY/FY96200.pdf

http://www.raderprograms.com/affected-groups/men-eating-disorders.html

The real question then, is how much of an impact do video game characters have on this trend. I'd be more inclined to say it's the fashion industry, movies, TV, and social pressure. Us gamers are supposedly able to separate video game fiction from reality... Not to say that games have 0 impact.

It's all too easy to say "what about ____?" when someone else is championing a cause, especially if it's a cause one does not agree with. Why doesn't PETA care about starving children in Africa? Why don't the people that are on about starving children in Africa care about child prostitutes in Thailand? You can literally shoot down any one cause with a "what about?".

Bottom line is if you really care about the depiction of men in video games and other media, join or start your own cause. If this cause is true then it should be able operate independently from other causes unless there is a "we need more nude, sexualized, and/or exploited men in the media" group. Don't blame feminists for not caring about what you care about and with the same intensity.

Too much is broken in the world to fix it all at once.

Well I was just pointing out that the comment was wrong however to look at your post why do you consider men and women's body images to be as different as animal rights vs children in Africa?

Does the medical field treat them as different species? or should issues around body image be treated as one issue? Certainly women have been treated for these sorts of issues far longer and more frequently than men have but now we need to apply some of the same techniques used on girls to apply to men too and that means the public health and advertising and entertainment solutions too. Instead of getting defensive about who has things worse we should be working together to find solutions to these problems

the study generals3's posted above shows rather than being different issues the way you portray it its the same issue and the fact that you want to separate it by gender is a sexist attitude in itself, just like if a researcher working on say a cold virus was told to only work on white people and not black would be racist

 

[Friis]

Oooh! Nice to see I'm not the only one here who knows about the white feather girls.
It'd be great to see something like a WW1 FPS game that starts you off as a 16-year-old civilian boy being handed a white feather and shamed into enlisting to the war effort. Let's see how feminists would react to something like that.

Id like to see that too. For the meantime though Im very much into pickup and dating stuff, like RSD, I believe taking care of your sex and social life lets of tons of pressure on feeling needed.


I think its important for guys to understand how to get girls, to lower our instincts too compete or try to be "macho". So much suffering(especially for men) comes from these old tropes that guys get stuck with- and its just evolutionary shit to pit us against eachother, not even what makes us happy or really gets us laid or gives us love efficiantly.
Self-esteem, being social, genuinely helpful, having your own ideas, your own passions and not being a societal puppet- now that will actually help a man.

As one guy in the PUA community used to say "lets just all get this shit done, so we can go home to our girls".

I can't relate with you there. I'm no PUA, and I frankly find them distasteful and weak.
Everything about PUA except the attitude is gynocentric, as you spend large portions of your time and energy studying exactly how to please women in the moment. To me it just seems like glorified and dishonest pussy-begging.
You're basically still allowing women to have power over you through their genitals.
I lean more towards the MGTOW way. I'm open to a relationship on equal terms, but it'll take a lot of effort to convince me to trust a woman enough for that. I don't see anything else as worth the effort as sex is wildly overrated... companionship is important, but I don't need women or romantic relationships for that.

You certainly have the right to do your thing, I just don't see your way as anything more than yet another symptom of the problem.

Youll notice though, that the more sex you get, the less you actually care for gender issues AT ALL.
Its actually very refreshing, you get more social, and you dont really care about feminism, you get laid anyways, and you dont need to get a relationship, because youd rather have a fuckbuddy.

I dont approve of my "main girls" feminist ideas, but I do enjoy her company(shes quite the nerd too ) and I dont have to worry about sex because I see a bunch.


All I have to do is socialize, go out 3 times a week to keep the blade sharp, and sex is taken care of. Its really the main thing you need girls for, so they actually lose power over you, because you dont need their approval in general when you already have a few sexual partners.

Youll also notice how bored girls are without guys, we need eachother!

I need to be careful as I am one more infraction away from a probation.

You are incorrect.

The amount of sex I have got has had no affect on the amount I care about issues. Could be down to be studying sociology and actively being a feminist, could be down to how I was raised. Could be that most male feminists are not using feminism as an attempt to get laid. Could be that some men, like myself, care about feminism regardless of getting laid. I have been more of a feminist than any of my past partners.

The reason I care about feminism is because I am an intensely political animal. It affects me because it affects my sisters and my mother, it effects me because I find men who treat women like shit disgusting and I find sexism as a whole disgusting.

and you dont really care about feminism, you get laid anyways, and you dont need to get a relationship, because youd rather have a fuckbuddy.

Speak for yourself. Please do not make generalisations that some of us find disgusting.

and sex is taken care of. Its really the main thing you need girls for

Aaand I am out of this thread. The point of view you have articulated in this post has disgusted me.

You do realize that his comment was addressing mine, and I'm just about the furthest you can find from a feminist.
He really didn't mean any of the things I'm assuming you think he meant.
Not that I find PUAs any less reprehensible than you do, but I do find feminists more reprehensible than him.

Yes, his comment was addressing yours, which I have yet to read. However, his comment referenced feminists and male attitudes and indicated that people are only feminists to get laid. His generalisations about my half of the species angered and depressed me and I found what he was saying to be of note and utterly revolting. That is why I commented.

No matter the context, stating that "sex is the main thing you need girls for" is revolting.

As for your statement that you are the furthest you could find from a feminist, I take that to mean you are a homophobic mysoginistic fascist pig? Because feminism is about equality. Equality of the sexes. So if you are the furthest you can be from someone who is for the equality of the sexes, one could assume you are the furthest away you can be from one who believes in equality fullstop. Therefore, all of the above is accurate, in your own words.

Unless you are the furthest away you can be from your warped definition of a feminist, quite possibly the straw feminist people like yourself trot out. From your own admission, I can assume you are a Mens Rights Activist and quite possibly a member of Stormfront or any various utterly foul groups.

What is it you find reprehensible about people like myself? Is it the fact that we care about other humans? The fact that, if we are male, we accept that the world is by default slanted in our favour, particularly if we are CIS male. What exactly is it about me that you find reprehensible? What exactly is it about anyone like me that you find reprehensible?

As for what he meant, well, if he is so incapable of communicating his thoughts then maybe he should not post online. What he stated is what I attacked, that you only need woman for sex, that feminism in men is used as a tool for sex, that the more sex you have the less sexually enlightened you become. Generalisations, and foul ones.

Not that I find PUAs any less reprehensible than you do, but I do find feminists more reprehensible than him.

What exactly is so reprehensible about feminists in general?

Their ideology is...
This should explain it fairly well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6qg8Up3PnU

I cannot watch that as I am sitting in a room with my grandmother.

Lets see.

fem·i·nism
/ˈfeməˌnizəm/
Noun
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Feminism
The belief that women are and should be treated as potential intellectual equals and social equals to men. These people can be either male or female human beings, although the ideology is commonly (and perhaps falsely) associated mainly with women.

The basic idea of Feminism revolves around the principle that just because human bodies are designed to perform certain procreative functions, biological elements need not dictate intellectual and social functions, capabilities, and rights.

Feminism also, by its nature, embraces the belief that all people are entitled to freedom and liberty within reason--including equal civil rights--and that discrimination should not be made based on gender, sexual orientation, skin color, ethnicity, religion, culture, or lifestyle.

Feminists--and all persons interested in civil equality and intellectuality--are dedicated to fighting the ignorance that says people are controlled by and limited to their biology.
Feminism is the belief that all people are entitled to the same civil rights and liberties and can be intellectual equals regardless of gender. However, you should still hold the door for a feminist; this is known as respect or politeness and need have nothing whatever to do with gender discrimination.

Hmmm...

[quote = Oxford Dictionary] noun
[mass noun]
the advocacy of women?s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
The issue of rights for women first became prominent during the French and American revolutions in the late 18th century. In Britain it was not until the emergence of the suffragette movement in the late 19th century that there was significant political change. A ?second wave? of feminism arose in the 1960s, with an emphasis on unity and sisterhood; seminal figures included Betty Friedan and Germaine Greer

I can find a crazy wanker on any subject you name. I can find christians who disbelieve in evolution, atheists who believe that all religious people should be put in prison for crimes against children, Muslims who believe I should burn in hell, men who tell me that I am going to burn for eternity because I am a man who would not mind the company of other men, or a man who has had sex before marriage. I can find you an article that shows that because I do not part my hair to the right, I am into anarchy, rock music and devil worship. I can find you blogs on how Harry Potter is indoctrinating children into witchcraft, how Dungeons and Dragons should be banned because it promotes satan worship.

The important thing here is I will take those people and separate them from the groups they pretend to be following. Just because some Christians think I am an abomination does not mean all Christians believe I am an abomination (Most of those at the church I sometimes attend would disagree with the whole "Fire and Brimstone" thing.)

So ideology, it comes down to ideology. An ideology of equality is somehow offensive to you? Your definition of feminist ideology is something radically different from the definition that the Urban Dictionary comes up with (Crowd sourced by people who, this is a total stab in the dark, are your age.), that the Oxford Dictionary comes up with, that Google comes up with.

i·de·ol·o·gy
/ˌīdēˈäləjē/
Noun
A system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political policy: "the ideology of republicanism".
The ideas and manner of thinking of a group, social class, or individual: "a critique of bourgeois ideology".

I think you do not know what Ideology means.[/quote]

You won't watch the video detailing my views on feminism, but you'll argue against it based on your assumptions about my beliefs... and yet you accuse me of strawmaning?
I've heard all the dictionary definitions of feminism several times before, I've heard the definitions of feminism from countless feminists just like you, I even used to be a feminist like you so I know your way of thinking about the ideology of feminism exceedingly well.
None of it brings me any closer to believing that feminism is a movement for equality.

 

[Friis]

Sexualisation will always happen to men or women so long as humans have properly functioning gonads.

As the industry catches up, we will eventually see males being objectified for a female audience.

Still, I think a good portion of this argument is due to imagined slights and people only choosing what they want to believe and ignoring the whole picture.


Want to solve the problem permanently? Well, we can always use our amazing advantages in surgery to remove our gonads.

Men are already being objectified and dehumanized for the benefit of women, perhaps not for the enjoyment of a female audience, but the effects of it is to benefit women.

 

[Smeatza]

snip

Interesting study.
Although I wouldn't go making any massive changes to your world view just yet.
It's a very limited study, and even I could find a few points of criticism after a quick scan.

But as someone who was of the same opinion as yourself and the person you were replying to, this certainly gives me some food for though and makes me eager to see more detailed comprehensive studies on the subject.
Although the fact that it's the only paper I (we maybe) could find on subject and the fact it's from 2008 don't make me hopeful we'll see any similar research any time soon.

 

[broca]

Lets see.

fem·i·nism
/ˈfeməˌnizəm/
Noun
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Feminism
The belief that women are and should be treated as potential intellectual equals and social equals to men. These people can be either male or female human beings, although the ideology is commonly (and perhaps falsely) associated mainly with women.

The basic idea of Feminism revolves around the principle that just because human bodies are designed to perform certain procreative functions, biological elements need not dictate intellectual and social functions, capabilities, and rights.

Feminism also, by its nature, embraces the belief that all people are entitled to freedom and liberty within reason--including equal civil rights--and that discrimination should not be made based on gender, sexual orientation, skin color, ethnicity, religion, culture, or lifestyle.

Feminists--and all persons interested in civil equality and intellectuality--are dedicated to fighting the ignorance that says people are controlled by and limited to their biology.
Feminism is the belief that all people are entitled to the same civil rights and liberties and can be intellectual equals regardless of gender. However, you should still hold the door for a feminist; this is known as respect or politeness and need have nothing whatever to do with gender discrimination.

Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
"Feminism is both an intellectual commitment and a political movement that seeks justice for women and the end of sexism in all forms. However, there are many different kinds of feminism. Feminists disagree about what sexism consists in, and what exactly ought to be done about it; they disagree about what it means to be a woman or a man and what social and political implications gender has or should have. Nonetheless, motivated by the quest for social justice, feminist inquiry provides a wide range of perspectives on social, cultural, economic, and political phenomena."
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-topics/

Merriam-Webster
"1. the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2. organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

Oxford Dictionaries
"The advocacy of women?s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/feminism

Wikipedia
"Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Of this four definitions, only one names equality (apart from equality for women) as a core part of feminism (and even there only as one of two possible definitions). Most agree that feminism is a movement for women. So either you're right and four credible sources are wrong, or you chose the definitions that reflects what you want feminism to be but that doesn't reflect what feminism is. Also, funny enough, according to wikipedia feminism is "is a collection of movements and ideologies"

Only 1 of the four sources YOU cite only mentions women. The first 3 either directly mention "equality for the sexes" or implies it with "the end of sexism in all forms".

You attempt to call into question someone else's sources and interpretation while you blatantly glaze over the content of the sources you cite as a counter arguement.

Okay, the Stanford definition could be understood both ways, as it is unclear whether "the end of sexism in all forms" applies to men and women (as the "all" implies) or only to women (as "seeks justice for women" before "the end of sexism in all forms" implies). The Oxford definitions doesn't mention "equality for the sexes", it mentions "equality of the sexes" and even that only as the basis for "the advocacy of women's rights". So according to the definition feminists believe that the sexes are equal, but advocate only for womens rights.

Is feminism a movement for equal rights for both sexes? Stanford definition: unclear. Merriam Webster: 1 definition: yes; 1 definition: no. Oxford: no (see above). Wikipedia: no. This adds up 1 yes, 3 no, 1 unclear. Conclusion: Feminism is mainly defined as a movement for women, not a movement for women and men.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Everyone can argue about this stuff on internet forums all day and it won't matter one bit. Humans are sexually charged beings and sex attracts us greatly. There will always be sexualized portrayals of both genders and that is not a bad thing.

I think feminists are still trying to sort out what needs to be changed and how going forward and they don't always get it right and they don't always focus on the right things. Just look at how many prominent women in the media won't even call themselves feminists because it has such a bad name today. This comes from the people on the fringe of the movement who say things like "All sex is rape".

So keep beating the drums in forums across the Internet, you'll keep seeing sexed up characters in your media of choice regardless.

 

[generals3]

snip

Interesting study.
Although I wouldn't go making any massive changes to your world view just yet.
It's a very limited study, and even I could find a few points of criticism after a quick scan.

But as someone who was of the same opinion as yourself and the person you were replying to, this certainly gives me some food for though and makes me eager to see more detailed comprehensive studies on the subject.
Although the fact that it's the only paper I (we maybe) could find on subject and the fact it's from 2008 don't make me hopeful we'll see any similar research any time soon.

Off course the results have to be taken with caution. And it's only one study (also the only one I have ever come across) and in that kind of field one study can actually mean little. Hopefully we will get more studies on that subject to further shed light on it.

Though the bigger "philosophical" question still remains, even if it makes some people feel "insecure" should we pressure people to make less of it? After all if it sells it's because people like it. Heck we sell more dangerous things people like (soft drinks, sweets, alcohol, fast food, etc.)

 

[Smeatza]

Though the bigger "philosophical" question still remains, even if it makes some people feel "insecure" should we pressure people to make less of it? After all if it sells it's because people like it. Heck we sell more dangerous things people like (soft drinks, sweets, alcohol, fast food, etc.)

Well being a great supporter of autonomy, I would say no, nobody has a right to say that we should make less or consume less of it.
To be honest I think the question can be avoided mostly if people are suitably educated on the subject. Like any problem, if you aren't aware it exists you cannot avoid it or take steps to combat it. And will probably find it more difficult to dismiss/brush off.