The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition (now with reviews! Page 13 - on)

Dreiko

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I saved the parrying for Salt and S games, where it wasn't reliant on the 3d animation they decided to give you (although it also works in Dark Souls OG because the hitboxes are blobs).


The problem with DS3/ER (I never tried in DS2), is that the parry is a tiny hitbox on your left hand going outwards and the enemy will just attack from the right, or do ground ponds or whatever else and consequently much of it is not parryable without absurd knowledge of positioning.


(Even replaying Dragons Dogma, the parry there is a crossover your chest which works out better, despite having a tighter timing window)
Ground pounds are generally not parryable anyways, in souls games only some things are and there's no red mark to notify you about the other ones like in Sekiro, even if you time it right you don't stagger em anyways and you lose the stamina despite that. Basically you have to already know an enemie's patterns enough to be able to beat em with rolling easily to be able to barely beat em with parrying...for the most part. Some enemies are very susceptible and telegraph their moves making it very easy to parry em. Also some moves have an extremely active hitbox that stays out and recovers very fast making punishing them very hard without you getting hit for your trouble so it's for that sort of stuff that parrying is useful.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I feel like they are slowly patching away the "accessibility" of the game. Every ability that helpped people get through the game has been continously nerfed. Is this Fromsoft's way of making people get gud? Give them easy-mode out the gate and then slowly take it away? Sick joke if true. lol.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I feel like they are slowly patching away the "accessibility" of the game. Every ability that helpped people get through the game has been continously nerfed. Is this Fromsoft's way of making people get gud? Give them easy-mode out the gate and then slowly take it away? Sick joke if true. lol.

Apparently the biggest boon with this latest patch is more flexibility with Co-Op’ing. The PvE end is still pretty OP even with the recent nerfs to a few things. Although maybe it’s like fighting game patches in a way, where various tweaking gets people to try other things more.
 

CriticalGaming

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Apparently the biggest boon with this latest patch is more flexibility with Co-Op’ing. The PvE end is still pretty OP even with the recent nerfs to a few things. Although maybe it’s like fighting game patches in a way, where various tweaking gets people to try other things more.
I feel like balancing a game around pvp when pvp isn't the core of the game, only causes more problems than it ever fixes.
 

Dreiko

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I feel like they are slowly patching away the "accessibility" of the game. Every ability that helpped people get through the game has been continously nerfed. Is this Fromsoft's way of making people get gud? Give them easy-mode out the gate and then slowly take it away? Sick joke if true. lol.
To me it seems that they're fixing balance issues they were unaware of.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I feel like balancing a game around pvp when pvp isn't the core of the game, only causes more problems than it ever fixes.
Well the PvP folks seem happier than they were before, so it would seem they solved a few of those problems. For PvE, It really shouldn’t be that bad if it now takes three or four corpse pilers to kill a boss instead of two or three. Or that BHS can’t be spammed to escape everything Malenia dishes out. Actually it should still be possible, but you’ll have to change directions half way through water fowl.
 

Silvanus

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Rivers of Blood needed a feckin' nerf. Every damn invader was doing the same shit.
 

CriticalGaming

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Rivers of Blood needed a feckin' nerf. Every damn invader was doing the same shit.
You mean bleed needed a narf. Rivers was just the best bleed weapon.

And actually the better solution would be to grant players a bonus to resistances when taking damage from players, so that the build up isn't as strong in pvp.

Because with all these nerfs they are not adjusting the enemies AI or bosses to compensate the lower player power. Which means all this nerfs they are making for pvp purposes are also fucking over the players who just want to playthrough the game. Every nerf makes the game harder.
 

sXeth

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You mean bleed needed a narf. Rivers was just the best bleed weapon.

And actually the better solution would be to grant players a bonus to resistances when taking damage from players, so that the build up isn't as strong in pvp.

Because with all these nerfs they are not adjusting the enemies AI or bosses to compensate the lower player power. Which means all this nerfs they are making for pvp purposes are also fucking over the players who just want to playthrough the game. Every nerf makes the game harder.

Yeah I don't know why we've still got stubborn holdout Devs on balancing their PvP and PvE separately (Souls, and Destiny both come to mind).


Even Warframe, where the Devs actively ignore the PvP mode (along with 99% of everyone else) has an entirely separate Arsenal management for it (most of the newer fancier shinier devastating weapons have never even been added to it)
 

Dreiko

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If those nerfs are general and not pvp-only it stands to reason that they weren't intended as pvp nerfs and just general nerfs to overpowered stuff.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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If those nerfs are general and not pvp-only it stands to reason that they weren't intended as pvp nerfs and just general nerfs to overpowered stuff.
People will complain on the internet. Mad they might no longer get away with L2 being a jokey-brokey instant win button.
 

CriticalGaming

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People will complain on the internet. Mad they might no longer get away with L2 being a jokey-brokey instant win button.
The problem is that the game is built around builds and if you are going fuck around with people's builds and expect them not to turn around and just find whatever the next best build is whenever you nerf something into the dirt, eventually you will run around with nothing left to nerf and a game that's basically unplayable.

Balance is important (?) in a game where multiplayer is the focus. But balancing your builds are less important in a game based around difficult PvE exploration. And while it would probably be fine to nerf something that is stupidly broken, it's another to just start dinging everything the players find. Hoarfrost was good, now it's not. Moonveil was good, now it's not. Sword of Night and Flame was good, now it's not. Rivers of Blood was good, now it's not.

At some point you nerf all the fun out of the game, which again is the point of a build-based rpg. People love to fuck with stuff to see what the craziest shit is. That's why build-based games are so good. Nobody plays a game like that to build "good enough", go fine me a youtube video of people showing off builds are that are "alright". There is a reason why everyone of them say "crazy OP build" "wild one shot bosses" and other youtube buzz words.

Now if you want to nerf the weapons, fine. But you also must adjust the game itself to accomodate for that as well. Especially in a game that more-often-than-not board on the unfair when trying to play it like Dark Souls 4.
 

Silvanus

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Now if you want to nerf the weapons, fine. But you also must adjust the game itself to accomodate for that as well. Especially in a game that more-often-than-not board on the unfair when trying to play it like Dark Souls 4.
Eh, why accommodate for something becoming less overpowered? Players still have the reasonable options of non-OP builds.
 

CriticalGaming

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Eh, why accommodate for something becoming less overpowered? Players still have the reasonable options of non-OP builds.
Because they've nerfed every item considered "OP". At some point the power of the enemies has to come down due to all these changes. Or maybe they don't care, they've mass sold the game and now they don't care about new players anymore, I dunno. It's probably fine Lobojr, beat the game at level 1 without taking a single hit so that's a reasonable expectation for everyone else right?
 

Silvanus

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Because they've nerfed every item considered "OP". At some point the power of the enemies has to come down due to all these changes. Or maybe they don't care, they've mass sold the game and now they don't care about new players anymore, I dunno. It's probably fine Lobojr, beat the game at level 1 without taking a single hit so that's a reasonable expectation for everyone else right?
Sure but Rivers of Blood absolutely needed it, it was just silly. And it's not as if the game is so mega-hard as to be inaccessible for newcomers without game-breaking strats.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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The problem is that the game is built around builds and if you are going fuck around with people's builds and expect them not to turn around and just find whatever the next best build is whenever you nerf something into the dirt, eventually you will run around with nothing left to nerf and a game that's basically unplayable.

Balance is important (?) in a game where multiplayer is the focus. But balancing your builds are less important in a game based around difficult PvE exploration. And while it would probably be fine to nerf something that is stupidly broken, it's another to just start dinging everything the players find. Hoarfrost was good, now it's not. Moonveil was good, now it's not. Sword of Night and Flame was good, now it's not. Rivers of Blood was good, now it's not.

At some point you nerf all the fun out of the game, which again is the point of a build-based rpg. People love to fuck with stuff to see what the craziest shit is. That's why build-based games are so good. Nobody plays a game like that to build "good enough", go fine me a youtube video of people showing off builds are that are "alright". There is a reason why everyone of them say "crazy OP build" "wild one shot bosses" and other youtube buzz words.

Now if you want to nerf the weapons, fine. But you also must adjust the game itself to accomodate for that as well. Especially in a game that more-often-than-not board on the unfair when trying to play it like Dark Souls 4.
But is “good” for you whatever is insta-win? I mean, those weapons you listed were known to be the most OP in the game. The only time I used any of those was for Malenia (RoB). Still the game was on the easier side of FROM’s catalog. I think the most vocal complaints happen to be from those who’d taken the most advantage of whatever was considered broken in the first place.
 

CriticalGaming

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But is “good” for you whatever is insta-win? I mean, those weapons you listed were known to be the most OP in the game. The only time I used any of those was for Malenia (RoB). Still the game was on the easier side of FROM’s catalog. I think the most vocal complaints happen to be from those who’d taken the most advantage of whatever was considered broken in the first place.
Some argument can be made about Sword of Night and Flame, but Moonveil was not broken for PvE in anyway. It was good, but not broken. Rivers isn't broken either I would argue. I'd argue that bleed is too good in general and maybe that should be looked at, either with making bleed harder to build or for the proc do deal less % damage. River is just the stand out because it's Corpse Piler also did bleed damage, which I think is the only weapon that has an ashes that does that....maybe one of the daggers too but im not 100% I thought it was only Rivers.

Either way, is Rivers the problem or is how the status effect works the problem? Same thing for Frostbite, they nerfed the speed of Hoarfrost stomp but they didn't nerf frost damage which does the same thing as bleed with a bonus of slowing enemies down. Frost is more powerful that bleed but nobody cares because they took away the Frost version of Rivers.

So if the game has some much unbalanced shit in it, then how is it possible that the Ashes of War the only issues, and nothing has to be done with the enemies? How is Godricks single frame start up whirlwind attack fair? How is the impossible lack of down time in BEast Clergyman okay?

Ya'll wanna tell me the broken weapons are the problem and they shouldn't do any compensating on the boss side of the game?

I'm not asking for them to buff the weapons back, I don't care. I am asking for them to also nerf bosses and certain problem enemies if they are going to downscale player power to that degree.

Blame Rivers all you want, but when the next patch nerfs wahtever the new meta is, I'll be here saying "told ya'll so."
 

Dreiko

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Because they've nerfed every item considered "OP". At some point the power of the enemies has to come down due to all these changes. Or maybe they don't care, they've mass sold the game and now they don't care about new players anymore, I dunno. It's probably fine Lobojr, beat the game at level 1 without taking a single hit so that's a reasonable expectation for everyone else right?
I mean, as long as they still allow summons to be usable I don't think there's any ground to complain about the game's difficulty lol.
 

Silvanus

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Ya'll wanna tell me the broken weapons are the problem and they shouldn't do any compensating on the boss side of the game?

I'm not asking for them to buff the weapons back, I don't care. I am asking for them to also nerf bosses and certain problem enemies if they are going to downscale player power to that degree.
That wouldn't make sense, though; they only nerfed a small number of specifically very powerful weapons. If they then nerfed the bosses, it wouldn't be "compensating", it would also make them unnecessarily easier for anyone who didn't use those strats.

You don't compensate when you're removing something unintended. Why would you?