The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition (now with reviews! Page 13 - on)

Dreiko

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I love finding good builds, but if it's just something someone else posted online that you're copying, yeah that's pretty lame alright.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Some argument can be made about Sword of Night and Flame, but Moonveil was not broken for PvE in anyway. It was good, but not broken. Rivers isn't broken either I would argue. I'd argue that bleed is too good in general and maybe that should be looked at, either with making bleed harder to build or for the proc do deal less % damage. River is just the stand out because it's Corpse Piler also did bleed damage, which I think is the only weapon that has an ashes that does that....maybe one of the daggers too but im not 100% I thought it was only Rivers.

Either way, is Rivers the problem or is how the status effect works the problem? Same thing for Frostbite, they nerfed the speed of Hoarfrost stomp but they didn't nerf frost damage which does the same thing as bleed with a bonus of slowing enemies down. Frost is more powerful that bleed but nobody cares because they took away the Frost version of Rivers.

So if the game has some much unbalanced shit in it, then how is it possible that the Ashes of War the only issues, and nothing has to be done with the enemies? How is Godricks single frame start up whirlwind attack fair? How is the impossible lack of down time in BEast Clergyman okay?

Ya'll wanna tell me the broken weapons are the problem and they shouldn't do any compensating on the boss side of the game?

I'm not asking for them to buff the weapons back, I don't care. I am asking for them to also nerf bosses and certain problem enemies if they are going to downscale player power to that degree.

Blame Rivers all you want, but when the next patch nerfs wahtever the new meta is, I'll be here saying "told ya'll so."
The sentinel before BC was way more aggressive. If people get by him they shouldn’t have much of a problem with stamina afterwards. Elden Beast is a different story and there should be a way to trap it, or at least make it less mobile for a period of time here and there. Malenia’s regain is another example of something that could be nerfed. At least let people block if they build for shields, or be able to use a buff to stop it.

As for ashes being OP…idk. Either they didn’t/couldn’t test for all these variables prelaunch, or they didn’t think it was a big deal until people started playing and all the meta shit filtered out in the wild. Souls games have alway suffered from bosses being damage sponges too often (especially as time went on), but with ER even after nerfs that is still much less of an issue. Any build type can find something that works in the player's favor, save for some of the end game bs. But respec’ing is made much easier now too.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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CriticalGaming

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No matter how hard they make the games, there will always be people beating it on dance pads or using bananas or whatever.
It's funny how beating Dark Souls games with a Guitar Hero controller or Rock Band drum set is considered quaint now. At this point, I'm expecting people to beat these games with their genitals.
 
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CriticalGaming

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It's funny how beating Dark Souls games with a Guitar Hero controller or Rock Band drum set is considered quaint now. At this point, I'm expecting people to beat these games with their genitals.
I mean im sure they COULD, but they'd get banned from Twitch.
 
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Dreiko

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So I explored this creepy magical manor with ghost knights and spider hands, someone in From likes the Adam's family. At the end of it I at least was able to make a pact with some witch and her group. I had met two of them already, blacksmith bro and wolf boi are cool, but this mage rubs me the wrong way. He wants me to give some potion to this warrior babe I've been running into here and there. No way in hell I'm doing that.

Also there's this weird fire tower that makes you go insane. Currently about to explore in its vicinity. I thought we were done with the bloodborne shit x.x.


Also I've been running into these "minor erdtrees" that are guarded by the wooden cousin of the prison demon from DS1...which is very weird cause they are called the avatars of the tree. Something tells me not everything is golden and pure with those trees lol. Also those assholes hit HARD, they're slow but one mistake and there goes like 70%. I was able to craft a physic that makes you explode after drinking it at least, and you can dodge the explosion with my favorite art, but you still take the damage from it. I guess it's there as a combo or something since you can do an air attack after the explosion hits em. Very offensive approach.

Wow that's a lot. I remember Sekiro was being praised as a success for breaking like..2-3 mil or something. I didn't realize it was this popular.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Re: builds, literally every day now I think to myself how I would like to replay Elden Ring but with this or that build goal or starting character or whatever.
And then I remember every reason why it would be miserable.

You know.. with every other "souls" game, I am exhausted after I finish it but then as time pass I think about all the cool fights and proud accomplishments and quirky areas I played in. Yes even Dark Souls 2. But with Elden Ring I just get mad thinking about stuff. And then, like, is it me? Am I crazy for thinking that pretty much all the boss fights are total and complete bullshit in this game?

In some stream or video I was listening to they were talking about potential "games of the year" already and I was thinking to myself that Elden Ring might not even make my top 5 at this point.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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you never told me! Congrats man. You rank this at the ebst Souls game or what?
It was in the now playing thread actually :)

In terms of playability and quality of life stuff I’d say ER has been overall an improvement to past games. Its biggest flaws to me were just the lack of tuning and redundancy of some assets, which I guess I’m kinda used to with open world stuff. I mean even RDR2 with all its details and massive budget couldn’t completely avoid doing this with random encounters and fighting the same bandits every so often, etc.

Bloodborne and Sekiro are still probably FROM’s most consistent games, in terms of everything firing on all cylinders. Even after platinum though I’ve still been messing around with different builds and cleaning up NG in ER, which I’ve never stuck around as much for in past games. Hope the DLC addresses some of the game’s faults with bosses and asset reuse though.



Re: builds, literally every day now I think to myself how I would like to replay Elden Ring but with this or that build goal or starting character or whatever.
And then I remember every reason why it would be miserable.

You know.. with every other "souls" game, I am exhausted after I finish it but then as time pass I think about all the cool fights and proud accomplishments and quirky areas I played in. Yes even Dark Souls 2. But with Elden Ring I just get mad thinking about stuff. And then, like, is it me? Am I crazy for thinking that pretty much all the boss fights are total and complete bullshit in this game?

In some stream or video I was listening to they were talking about potential "games of the year" already and I was thinking to myself that Elden Ring might not even make my top 5 at this point.
Besides Malenia’s health regen spam and Elden Beast’s can’t catch me BS, the bosses weren’t much different for me than past games. Without mimic it would’ve been a different story though, and goes to show how much stuff like spirits and ashes change the game. Two nights of failed attempts on Malenia and EB were changed into just two tries after adjusting my build and buffs respectively. The duo in Caelid was kinda rough I guess, and the Evergaol boss for Black Knife Tiche was way to spongey for a scrawny fucking assassin. But even fighting Radahn early with a straight sword + bloody slash was less painful than some of DS3 and Sekiro’s later bosses.

My biggest shitlist enemy was probably the revenants whenever I saw them (much like in GoW 2018 but worse with the thousand claw poison proc spam bs). Imps were annoying in the sewers too, but most of the other bs like the perfumers, dogs, crystalians, marionettes, magic spammers, etc. could either be avoided or dispatched more easily with certain weapons. I wound up with a few different upgraded setups so I switched as needed.
 
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Dreiko

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In my experience so far boss fights feel easier than past games.


They just hit really hard, that's kinda it. The amount of stagger you can cause with a heavy charged attack and jump attacks, allowing you to go for free critical hits, is incredible. And I haven't even upgraded my stuff past +6 cause I wanna use other weapons and these are only temporary too lol.


Also I'm in that weird camp where sekiro got easier rather than harder past the half way mark when I learned how to play properly (around the mark where the enemy ninja army takes over the big castle area and replaces the weak mobs), cause basically nothing would touch me after that point. A lot of those bosses I beat first try with no knowledge of their patterns by just parrying a bunch for a while and figuring out what they did.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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I don't think it's unusual to find Sekiro easier in the second half- Genichiro is generally considered the game's real skill-check and rage-quit wall, and that is like 1/3 in. It's just that the final boss which for most is Ishin Sword Saint is considered really hard. But even that one is hard because it's long.

I see your point about staggering bosses in Elden Ring and I did that occasionally but in order to do those strong hits you need to hold/charge, and with some of these bosses flying around outside camera range or spamming attacks that becomes really difficult. Or even worse is enemies- maybe not so much bosses but more minor ones- that can attack through your attacks and even guard breaks. I was really hoping to exchange blows with bosses and apply the guard break because that is a cool mechanical idea but I could never do it.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I don't think it's unusual to find Sekiro easier in the second half- Genichiro is generally considered the game's real skill-check and rage-quit wall, and that is like 1/3 in. It's just that the final boss which for most is Ishin Sword Saint is considered really hard. But even that one is hard because it's long.

I see your point about staggering bosses in Elden Ring and I did that occasionally but in order to do those strong hits you need to hold/charge, and with some of these bosses flying around outside camera range or spamming attacks that becomes really difficult. Or even worse is enemies- maybe not so much bosses but more minor ones- that can attack through your attacks and even guard breaks. I was really hoping to exchange blows with bosses and apply the guard break because that is a cool mechanical idea but I could never do it.
Weapons with high STA value for staggers can do so without the need for charging too. Basically jump attacks and especially coupled with powerstancing. Or weapon skills like Flame of Redmanes, Wild Strikes, Square Off, or even Sword Dance. I’m sure there’s some more elemental skills or spells that do so too, like Rock Sling worked pretty well even at lower levels with the Meteorite staff.


Speaking of unfair shit -
 
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CriticalGaming

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Weapons with high STA value for staggers can do so without the need for charging too. Basically jump attacks and especially coupled with powerstancing. Or weapon skills like Flame of Redmanes, Wild Strikes, Square Off, or even Sword Dance. I’m sure there’s some more elemental skills or spells that do so too, like Rock Sling worked pretty well even at lower levels with the Meteorite staff.


Speaking of unfair shit -
That's a good explaination video, if the explaination is still basically the same effect. It's not technically reading inputs, but it is responding directly to the result of that input before the player has any reasonable reaction to tell the difference since it's responding to start up frames. Either way i think it crosses the difficulty line of "tough but fair" since it responds to start up frames before any possible reaction can be done by the player. The AI should never do anything that can't technically be responded to by the player, ever. It's one thing to catch the player in a panic roll, it's another to heal punish with an attack the player can't avoid because of the healing animation. Especially when no action was being done by the enemy when the player chose to heal during a presumed "safe' moment to do so.

This is compounded by the sheer agression and long extended combos many enemies have, making "safe" mements few and far between. So actively further punishing those safe moments only serves to feel cheap and overly punishing for no reason.
 
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