The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition - (Shadow of the Erdtree p. 85)

CriticalGaming

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Why do these games always have really cool lore, but you have to do more research than my entire four years of college in order to learn and understand? I don't wanna study any more man!
 

BrawlMan

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Why do these games always have really cool lore, but you have to do more research than my entire four years of college in order to learn and understand? I don't wanna study any more man!
"Pride and accomplishment!" Don't you want that satisfaction when you go through all the game documents, fan theories, wikis, and all that while guessing just to feel like you've done something important, or discovered a twist "nobody" thought to to think about or realize?
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Why do these games always have really cool lore, but you have to do more research than my entire four years of college in order to learn and understand? I don't wanna study any more man!
Game has only been out a fraction of that, and many of these videos are nearly a year old already. It’s been like what 14 years now or something since Demon’s Souls, so not sure why only now it’s a big deal. They’ve always done environmental storytelling.

It’s mostly about longevity and depth too. It keeps people talking, discovering things vs tradition narratives where everything is presented at face value and typically unmissable.

I think the pace of our society and convenience factor has led to the age of instant gratification. Although there’s clearly a growing subset who still have the patience for a mystery. People also play for different reasons. Some just want to fight shit, try different builds, etc. Others like the world building stuff. It’s there if it piques one’s interest but not required.

If you’re going to say “who wants to spend all that time looking for shit, we all might die tomorrow?!” Well, why the hell are we all still going to work if that’s the case. :)
 

CriticalGaming

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Well, why the hell are we all still going to work if that’s the case. :)
Why the fuck ARE we going to work?

I don't mean it like as a negative the whole way through. It's just that they could try something different once in a while and just....actually tell a story during the game.

I've said this before but Lore is not the same thing as story.

Lore is what HAS happened, story is what IS currently happening. They are very different things.
 

sXeth

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Why do these games always have really cool lore, but you have to do more research than my entire four years of college in order to learn and understand? I don't wanna study any more man!

Because all those videos tend to get like, 4 sentences in, or a paragraph tops and then it immediately does a hard turn from anything described in the actual game (even the nebulous, probably churned out by an over-caffeinated intern item descriptions) and sidewinds into basically fan fiction for the next 8-30 minutes. So it takes them (or whichever random heap they're sourcing from) time to write it.


Sure, it works for FROM, it certainly has worked out to the benefit of the content creators who've specialized in it. But its just another batch of fanfic with less pornogaphy then the usual fare end of the day.

A comparitive example would be Dominus Thrax in the new Warframe expansion. A character that the game never actually 100% identifies and who wears a mask the whole time. Leading to various fan theories that its one of the existing characters. And I could write you 3 entirely different videos that its Drifter timeline (long story but a recent plot ploint basically involves the magic space dimension quantum entanglement) of the character Rell, viral-meme star and first boss Captain Vor, or just a void manifestation of our own characters trauma. All of which would cite concrete ingame sources (many of them the same, but with slightly different interpretations, and reasonable logic connections. And all of them probably having no actual relation to anything the devs intended (if they did indeed intend anything at all beyond encouraging such disucssion because it drives engagement)
 
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BrawlMan

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Because all those videos tend to get like, 4 sentences in, or a paragraph tops and then it immediately does a hard turn from anything described in the actual game (even the nebulous, probably churned out by an over-caffeinated intern item descriptions) and sidewinds into basically fan fiction for the next 8-30 minutes. So it takes them (or whichever random heap they're sourcing from) time to write it.


Sure, it works for FROM, it certainly has worked out to the benefit of the content creators who've specialized in it. But its just another batch of fanfic with less pornogaphy then the usual fare end of the day.

A comparitive example would be Dominus Thrax in the new Warframe expansion. A character that the game never actually 100% identifies and who wears a mask the whole time. Leading to various fan theories that its one of the existing characters. And I could write you 3 entirely different videos that its Drifter timeline (long story but a recent plot ploint basically involves the magic space dimension quantum entanglement) of the character Rell, viral-meme star and first boss Captain Vor, or just a void manifestation of our own characters trauma. All of which would cite concrete ingame sources (many of them the same, but with slightly different interpretations, and reasonable logic connections. And all of them probably having no actual relation to anything the devs intended (if they did indeed intend anything at all beyond encouraging such disucssion because it drives engagement)
Fanfiction makes a lot of sense actually.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Why the fuck ARE we going to work?

I don't mean it like as a negative the whole way through. It's just that they could try something different once in a while and just....actually tell a story during the game.

I've said this before but Lore is not the same thing as story.

Lore is what HAS happened, story is what IS currently happening. They are very different things.
True. They attempted more of a blend of story and lore with Sekiro, so maybe the new Armored Core will be geared towards that. Maybe lol.

The other thing I just thought of is like, creating actual stories with cinematics is a ton of time and money. Since the story is what is happening as you play, then you’re automatically limiting your game to something pretty concise. Or else the game would be waaay too long to sit through. Miyazaki probably figures it’s more efficient to have a handful of cinematics, then write in everything else into the game world for people to find if they’re curious.

The biggest hurdle to that is of course time. Figuring stuff out requires very active engagement which will often be sidestepped in favor of the game’s more immediate gameplay focuses.
 
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Xprimentyl

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True. They attempted more of a blend of story and lore with Sekiro, so maybe the new Armored Core will be geared towards that. Maybe lol.

The other thing I just thought of is like, creating actual stories with cinematics is a ton of time and money. Since the story is what is happening as you play, then you’re automatically limiting your game to something pretty concise. Or else the game would be waaay too long to sit through. Miyazaki probably figures it’s more efficient to have a handful of cinematics, then write in everything else into the game world for people to find if they’re curious.
Also, let's give credit where credit is due; the Miyazaki "way" creates worlds that are far more engaging than most, depending on the level of engagement one is seeking. I could name a hundred games that "told a story," and left me with little left to engage with when I was done. Souls games keep me curious and coming back. They're not about just getting further into an intended linear progression of "beginning, middle, and end;" they're about participating in a world of curiosity that cares little what or why you know about it. I said it before, Souls games are like arguments you walk into between several people you don't know: you don't know the details, but things escalate quickly, and should you so chose to engage in it, and however you so chose to do or not, is the game.

And how many games have "lore" baked into item descriptions and such that serve very little purpose since most just want to know what stats they boost. I put hundreds of hours into Morrowind and collected hundreds of books. Wanna know how many of them I actually read? A handful, because though they fleshed out the world, it was of little import to my appreciation of the experience since the cliff notes were exposited throughout the gameplay. One could argue that was a lot of wasted effort for a feature that can be largely ignored with little impact to the understanding and appreciation of the game.

It's funny that anyone would fault Souls games for their lack of direct storytelling and "need" for engagement of discussion and speculation amongst the player base... on an online forum for gamers to discuss games. I went to a gay bar the other night, and there were like NO chicks anywhere! Total sausage fest! 👎:rolleyes:

Souls games are a "type" of game unto their own. My ironic response to "someone's" very acute opinion to "should Souls games have an easy mode:" if you want on-rails storytelling, "just play something else"...
 

Xprimentyl

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"Narrative," "story," call it what you will; it engages its player base in ways nearly unique to FROM games, and is just as high in quality (if not better in some instances) than traditional point-to-point offerings.

 

hanselthecaretaker

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"Narrative," "story," call it what you will; it engages its player base in ways nearly unique to FROM games, and is just as high in quality (if not better in some instances) than traditional point-to-point offerings.

There’s certainly more of it, and to the point where we wouldn’t have the patience to sit through it in traditional narrative form. So, perhaps for the best, as in its current offering it’s there as much as people want to engage with it. My takeaway from these games is basically you’ll get out of it what you put in.


An interesting comment -

Story Mission 22 hours ago
The misunderstanding so many people make, they mistake exposition for storytelling. The best stories show and not tell. Elden Ring is show to the core.

So um, I guess we should be saying storyshowing then lol.
 

Xprimentyl

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There’s certainly more of it, and to the point where we wouldn’t have the patience to sit through it in traditional narrative form. So, perhaps for the best, as in its current offering it’s there as much as people want to engage with it. My takeaway from these games is basically you’ll get out of it what you put in.
I understand people who criticize FROM games for their ambiguity are those most accustomed to videogames centering around them, their being the center of a linear tale (even if that world is a non-linear one.) FROM games are those in which the player is incidental. They are tasked with bringing themselves up to speed because FROM worlds don't care that you're in them or what you do in them; you have to make yourself a part of the larger narrative, and that begins by finding a thread and following it wherever it might lead you. Or not. That's the beauty.