The Stuff removed / changed / pulled relating to Trump

Agema

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It's presented as continual dysfunction because it can be presented as that.
And the easiest way for something gets presented as continual dysfunction is because that's the reality. Painful as it may be for the Trump fanbois to accept.

So a Conspiracy theory but with better funding
No. A conspiracy theory is a fringe hypothesis that denies an obvious, good explanation for something in favour of one involving a shadowy cabal manipulating events. This is nothing like an openly elected democratic leader simply lying to our faces.
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I believe headlines are purposefully created to stand alone.
I believe that you are manufacturing a set of premises selected merely to create the logical conclusion that you have already decided.

Are you claiming that these are "code words" for "go commit acts of violence?"

This is a weak, subjective argument,
Says the man who recently argued advertising genuinely works on a subconscious level.

See what I mean about consistency?
 

Houseman

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Says the man who recently argued advertising genuinely works on a subconscious level.
Am I wrong about that? Advertising, too, is artfully crafted to subtly and overtly influence your thoughts and behaviors. Isn't this common knowledge?

Are you suggesting that Trump is such a master manipulator, such an evil genius, that he is an expert in the techniques used in advertisement as well?
I wonder why the plan of such an evil genius failed after a few dozen people milled around the capitol, accomplishing nothing? They couldn't fight back against one policeman with a gun? After, as you claim, the crowd was whipped into a murderous, violent frenzy?

Either Trump utterly failed to provoke the violence you suggest, or he didn't provoke the violence at all.

But that's beside the point. The point is that these techniques, used in both headlines and advertising, need to be intentionally applied and are the result of hours of effort and years of specific education. It's not something you do on accident.
 
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Revnak

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Am I wrong about that? Advertising, too, is artfully crafted to subtly and overtly influence your thoughts and behaviors. Isn't this common knowledge?

Are you suggesting that Trump is such a master manipulator, such an evil genius, that he is an expert in the techniques used in advertisement as well?
I wonder why the plan of such an evil genius failed after a few dozen people milled around the capitol, accomplishing nothing? They couldn't fight back against one policeman with a gun? After, as you claim, the crowd was whipped into a murderous, violent frenzy?

Either Trump utterly failed to provoke the violence you suggest, or he didn't provoke the violence at all.

But that's beside the point. The point is that these techniques, used in both headlines and advertising, need to be intentionally applied and are the result of hours of effort and years of specific education. It's not something you do on accident.
He’s literally a multi-millionaire businessman. Of course he’s a marketing/advertisement dude.
 
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Houseman

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He’s literally a multi-millionaire businessman. Of course he’s a marketing/advertisement dude.
I thought he was a failing businessman, full of debts and lawsuits and scams and bankruptcies?

It takes multiple people and multiple roles to run a business. Marketing/advertisement is only one of those parts. I find it hard not to believe that Trump doesn't pay somebody else to do that for him.

Plus, his tweets don't exactly scream "Marketing Professional"
 

Revnak

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I thought he was a failing businessman, full of debts and lawsuits and scams and bankruptcies?

It takes multiple people and multiple roles to run a business. Marketing/advertisement is only one of those parts. I find it hard not to believe that Trump doesn't pay somebody else to do that for him.

Plus, his tweets don't exactly scream "Marketing Professional"
He puts his name on everything he touches. In giant gold letters. He personally oversaw and starred in multiple commercials for his own products. He made a TV show where he instructed people to do business like him, which included substantial segments on marketing and advertisement. You’re being deliberately ignorant.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Am I wrong about that? Advertising, too, is artfully crafted to subtly and overtly influence your thoughts and behaviors. Isn't this common knowledge?

Are you suggesting that Trump is such a master manipulator, such an evil genius, that he is an expert in the techniques used in advertisement as well?
I'm pointing out that you are employing all sorts of arguments that you effectively deny elsewhere. So you've said a headline influences how people perceive the article. That's fine, I don't disagree it can do that. Then you suddenly want to argue that the use of violent imagery in a speech doesn't count for anything as long as somewhere else the speaker says "But don't commit violence, mmmkay?" This is plainly inconsistent.

Manipulating people does not take genius or particularly deep, subtle skills. Most of us can do it to some degree, and most of us also sometimes screw up and induce the wrong emotional responses through carelessness because we have not properly considered how someone would take what we said. It's that easy.
 

Houseman

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He puts his name on everything he touches. In giant gold letters. He personally oversaw and starred in multiple commercials for his own products. He made a TV show where he instructed people to do business like him, which included substantial segments on marketing and advertisement. You’re being deliberately ignorant.
I never watched The Apprentice, so I wouldn't know. But, you know it's just a show, right?
The first result I saw on Youtube has Trump giving a task to the contestants to design a new toy for Mattel. You think that Trump is an expert toy-maker? You think he's leaning on years of toy experience in order to judge the winner or loser? Of course not. If he didn't have an expert there, then that means who he "fires" from the show is up to his subjective whims and mood, not necessarily his educated conclusions.

I'm pointing out that you are employing all sorts of arguments that you effectively deny elsewhere. So you've said a headline influences how people perceive the article. That's fine, I don't disagree it can do that. Then you suddenly want to argue that the use of violent imagery in a speech doesn't count for anything as long as somewhere else the speaker says "But don't commit violence, mmmkay?" This is plainly inconsistent.
I don't see how that's inconsistent.

Let's make a hypothetical sentence that I used before: "Off-duty cop fingers boy",

Let's pretend that this sentence is the headline, where the body of the article makes it clear that this means that the cop identified the boy as a suspect.
Let's also pretend that we're reading this sentence in the body of another article, where the context is fully explained.

Which is going to make a stronger impression on you? When you see those words as the headline, or when you're reading those words in the context of a paragraph (or a speech)?

Manipulating people does not take genius or particularly deep, subtle skills. Most of us can do it to some degree, and most of us also sometimes screw up and induce the wrong emotional responses through carelessness because we have not properly considered how someone would take what we said. It's that easy.
Yes, but some people get paid to do it.
 

Revnak

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I never watched The Apprentice, so I wouldn't know. But, you know it's just a show, right?
The first result I saw on Youtube has Trump giving a task to the contestants to design a new toy for Mattel. You think that Trump is an expert toy-maker? You think he's leaning on years of toy experience in order to judge the winner or loser? Of course not. If he didn't have an expert there, then that means who he "fires" from the show is up to his subjective whims and mood, not necessarily his educated conclusions.
Glad you really don’t fucking care at all about anything resembling consistency.
 

Houseman

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Glad you really don’t fucking care at all about anything resembling consistency.
You claimed that Trump is an expert marketing professional because he had a show where he judged people on their marketing skills.

In this same show he also judged people on their toy-designing skills. Therefore, by your logic, Trump is an expert toy designer, right?
 

Revnak

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You claimed that Trump is an expert marketing professional because he had a show where he judged people on their marketing skills.

In this same show he also judged people on their toy-designing skills. Therefore, by your logic, Trump is an expert toy designer, right?
I said he is very about marketing and advertisement. That he does and speaks marketing. You skipped right over “puts his name on everything” and “literally makes his own commercials.”
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I don't see how that's inconsistent.
Yes, I can tell that already. Unfortunately, whether you can see it or not, it is inconsistent.

Yes, but some people get paid to do it.
Yes. Including billionaire property developers who have as a large of their job persuading investors to hand over money, negotiating, selling, and who also have a sideline TV career as a presenter. Indeed, maybe such a man might write a book all about his skills. He could give it a title like, for instance, "Master Of The Deal".
 
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Trunkage

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I thought he was a failing businessman, full of debts and lawsuits and scams and bankruptcies?

It takes multiple people and multiple roles to run a business. Marketing/advertisement is only one of those parts. I find it hard not to believe that Trump doesn't pay somebody else to do that for him.

Plus, his tweets don't exactly scream "Marketing Professional"
You only get that much debt if you're really good at convincing people that you're someone that you aren't

That all the advertising is. Propaganda. Trump is very good at propaganda
 

Trunkage

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He did swindle about half the nation.
It's not like Biden doesn't do some of The Propaganda too. It's just we're all aware he's doing it. We're not pretending he's not being a salesman, like some do with Trump

I really wish there was some way to vote for someone with real talent instead of salesmen
 

bluegate

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It's not like Biden doesn't do some of The Propaganda too. It's just we're all aware he's doing it. We're not pretending he's not being a salesman, like some do with Trump

I really wish there was some way to vote for someone with real talent instead of salesmen
Those people get out-saled by the salesmen, sadly 🤷‍♂️
 

Houseman

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Yes, I can tell that already. Unfortunately, whether you can see it or not, it is inconsistent.
You could answer my hypothetical, and help me see it, or maybe it'll even help you see that it's not.