The Tools of the Trade

[Hairless Mammoth]

After reading this, I got this bad feeling MS is going to pull an MS (read: be completely out of touch with what users want) and release one of the stupidest things ever.

Spoiler: I expect the something like the Gamecube keyboard controller.

(I know this marvel was for Phantasy Star Online, but just imagine MS thinking adding a giant keyboard to the existing controller is what counts as hardcore.)

Personally, I'm in the "the best controller depends on the genre" camp. If I was into racing or flight sims, I'd have a wheel and a flight stick next to my KB & M and PS3 controller (because fuck the 360's d-pad).

 

[FPLOON]

Wireless controlers can go die in a ditch for all I care, I have had nothing but problems with during my many years...

Eww... wireless controllers. I must admit, nothing ruins a gaming session more than having your controller die mid-way through a game. I haven't used a wireless controller for about 4 years now.

Captcha: On the ball. Certainly can't do that reliably with a wireless controller, that is for sure.

Damn, son... That must make me a master or something because I've never had any kind of problems with my wireless controllers... Then again, I always keep their power in check to prevent them from turning off mid-play, so there's that... Plus, the less wires I have to deal with overall, the better in my opinion...

Edit (3/9/15 4:20PM PST): But seriously, it sucks that your wireless endeavors haven't been as good as your wired experience when it comes to controllers...

 

[Cerebrawl]

This touches on some things I've been contemplating for quite a while with control methods. We could do better than keyboard and mouse, we really could. I think in many cases flightstick and mouse is closer to ideal, while other times something like a razer orbweaver and mouse is better, and I don't think the orbweaver is all that great either(especially for its price), I'd probably still buy one if the thumb-stick was analogue.

I've been thinking controllers could be improved by adding scrollwheels on the back, or replacing a shoulder button, and possibly adding a trackball.

Gyroscopic controls are underused outside of phone apps as well, and could certainly be used to add more options/layers of control to game controllers. Imagine having movement, camera control, and scrolling available simultaneously, for example.

For that last bit it's not quite the same but technically you could cover all that with the wii-mote/nunchuk. Unfortunately console gamers have been married to long to their PS/Xbox control layout with both hands attached to a single hunk of plastic and never looked passed the gimmicky waggle stuff to consider actual extended output options it can provide.

Wii-mote and nunchuk are clunky and unergonomic as hell, for all that it's intuitive for non-gamers, the wii-mote is poorly shaped. The razer hydra is a slight improvement, at least ergonomically... though I haven't tried how it actually functions, a bit too much money for me to feel comfortable throwing it at something just to try it out, and I say this as someone who's bought a $130 finger-mounted air mouse(A neo reflection), which isn't quite as good as a normal mouse btw, it's intuitive, but it takes great care to be precise with it, and it's absolutely horrible for first person games, simply because it's much slower to do the "pick up the mouse and move it" thing with it, turning around becomes cumbersome. It also tires your arm quite a bit more. The battery charge practically lasts forever though.

The PS Vita has a gyroscope and accellerometer as well.

 

[Bad Jim]

You let me know when a Keyboard + Mouse is best for anything but shooters, MOBAs, and RTS. Make no mistake, I love me some Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and I wouldn't consider playing it with a gamepad, but there's so many games that are simply better with a controller. Every platformer ever, anything by Platinum, Uncharted, Tomb Raider, most JRPGs (although they're often best suited for Wii U or 3DS, something with analog movement AND a touchscreen), Metal Gear, racing games (better still with a wheel unless it's Mario Kart, but my point stands), twin-stick arcade shooters... Anyone who thinks one single control method is the de facto best doesn't play a wide enough variety of games.

P.S. Thanks

JRPGs? Those games where combat consists of selecting the attack you want to use then maybe the bad guy you want to use it on? You really think it is better to use a joypad to select those options than to simply click them with a mouse?

Joypads are better in many cases, but you are overstating your case a bit. Also, platformers are usually just as playable on a keyboard, and I found Tomb Raider very easy with a mouse and keyboard, so much so that I turned it up to hard on my first playthrough.

The benefits of analogue movement are not very significant in most games. If there is no pressure to do it quickly and accurately, a keyboard works fine. If you simply look in the direction you want to go and press forward, keyboard and mouse is fine. I play a variety of games with my 360 controller, but I think it's only the driving games that really benefit.

 

[Covarr]

OK, should I start now? It is best for RPGs, definitely best for ARPGs, turn based strategy games, point and click adventure games, games like plants vs. zombies and action games like Mount & Blade. Oh, and of course I must mention Typing of the Dead.

I agree with you on some of these, but I really do prefer controllers for most ARPGs that I've played. I can't imagine, for example, attempting Kingdom Hearts on mouse+keyboard.

A lot of these aren't really ideal on gamepad OR mouse+keyboard, though. Plants vs. Zombies is absolutely glorious on a tablet, and Fire Emblem is finer on DS and 3DS than it ever could be on a PC. While I'd never advocate touchscreens as a one-size-fits-all gamepad the way Apple seems to have, I do think it can't be ignored.

But ultimately my point was that there's no one "best" option. We can argue until the sun goes down about which is better for any specific game, but I simply cannot get behind the idea that mouse and keyboard is necessarily "the best". Especially since such a big chunk of professional gaming is fighting games, which depending on the particular game can range from mediocre on a keyboard (Street Fighter) to downright awful (Smash Bros).

I'm a PC gamer, so I'm definitely no stranger to KB+M. I don't have much issue with it on 2D platformers with purely digital movement, and for all first-person and many third-person shooters it's all I'll use. You wouldn't catch me dead trying to play WoW or Age of Empires with a controller either. I like my Sidewinder X4 and I adore my Logitech G9x. But I do think it's utterly foolish for any PC gamer not to keep a controller handy also. I'd lose my mind without a 360 pad handy for those quick Sonic Generations sessions, y'know?

P.S. Thanks

 

[Groverfield]

Unseen 4th panel: Erin Mic Drop.

 

[Lunar Templar]

given how many shooters tend to end up on the Xbox, yeah, I can see that.

other then that *shrugs* KB/M has it's group of games that it excels at with out question,just like the game pad has its group. any spouting non-sense about KB/M being 'teh bees' at everything should be ignored for the ignorant they clearly are.

 

[Ferisar]

Nice creative tag use again. The only reason I can think of needing a console controller would be for something like Supe rMeat Boy or badly done ports - and I really shouldn't be spending money on the latter in the first place.

Eh, I think the 360 pad is pretty much mandatory for PC gaming for a few years now. There's too many games that just play better with the pad due to their basic design (any 3rd person game where movement takes precedence over aiming, really).

Also: it appears I fucked up the publish date for this strip, so enjoy it a day early, I guess.

Really can't say I agree, but I acknowledge being a minority here. I can't play things with a controller. I remember watching a Dark Souls stream and saying I preferred the mouse/keyboard and everyone was just like "are you a real person?"

It mostly has to do with growing up on PC gaming, but still. Just... Never got used to it. I mean, I'll use them when I have to (DAMN YOU BLOODBORNE) but otherwise the kb+m limitations never bothered me.

 

[Skeleon]

We've been trying to get console gamers to see the superiority of the mouse supported by the keyboard for particular genres for ages now. I honestly don't see why you wouldn't release those for consoles, especially for shooters or strategy titles.
I mean, hell, more options is better, right? I have an XBox-controller I use with my PC to bash against the wall in frustration when playing Rex Rocket, so why wouldn't somebody want to toss a mouse across the room when playing the right sort of game with their console?
Use the appropriate tool for the appropriate task, the appropriate control method for the appropriate game. More available options is better for gamers and also means Microsoft gets to sell more peripherals. Everybody's happy.

 

[Ferisar]

Sooo, stupid question but, why aren't mouse and keyboards compatible with consoles anyway? They use USB the same as the controllers, so I've never really understood why the devs/manufacturers didn't made them compatible.

To sell their own controllers, I'd wager. Same idea as having exclusive games as a market. Afaik, pads and keyboards/mice are cheaper than the console-specific controllers. Also, wasn't KB+M compatible for other functions on one of the consoles? Not games specifically, I mean, but still.

 

[Marauder Shields]

FPS problem for controller is largely remedied by game design with aim assist and ADS delay. K/M is only superior if one properly set up their rig with no acceleration and a non office mouse with huge 360/cm range to be remotely accurate. Gears of War and Halo already demostrate how to do it.

Keyboards are limited by their lowest common denominator which is USB keyboard with maximum 3-key input plus huge amount of shadow keys that makes only games like MOBA viable to PC where complex input game like FTG fall down flat.

Games are designed around the input device, not other way around.

Sooo, stupid question but, why aren't mouse and keyboards compatible with consoles anyway? They use USB the same as the controllers, so I've never really understood why the devs/manufacturers didn't made them compatible.

To sell their own controllers, I'd wager. Same idea as having exclusive games as a market. Afaik, pads and keyboards/mice are cheaper than the console-specific controllers. Also, wasn't KB+M compatible for other functions on one of the consoles? Not games specifically, I mean, but still.

That's stupid, have you ever tried to plug your everyday HP/dell OEM keyboard/mouse combo into PS/Xbox in living room? The cables are too short, and did I mention a lot of keyboard still uses PS/2 only? how are you going to deal with vastly different drivers within those equipment, just because windows did it automatically does not mean it's not there.

Game Dev will not design a game that requires special equipment because it limits their market, this is also why MS was so keen to put Kinect 2 in XOne as default.

 

[blackrave]

Wireless controlers can go die in a ditch for all I care, I have had nothing but problems with during my many years...

Eww... wireless controllers. I must admit, nothing ruins a gaming session more than having your controller die mid-way through a game. I haven't used a wireless controller for about 4 years now.

Captcha: On the ball. Certainly can't do that reliably with a wireless controller, that is for sure.

Damn, son... That must make me a master or something because I've never had any kind of problems with my wireless controllers... Then again, I always keep their power in check to prevent them from turning off mid-play, so there's that... Plus, the less wires I have to deal with overall, the better in my opinion...

Edit (3/9/15 4:20PM PST): But seriously, it sucks that your wireless endeavors haven't been as good as your wired experience when it comes to controllers...

Never understood why hybrids aren't bigger thing (wireless that can be attached to cord).
Such mouse/keyboard would be perfect for gaming.
Batteries died? Just attach cord and keep playing.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I think the best type of game you need a controller for is racing games. Keyboard buttons are all or nothing, you're either flooring it or your foot is off the gas, the controller gives you that in between that you need for corners and that's why I love my xbox 360 controller.

This, massively, but also beat-em-ups. The fact you can have your keys nicely placed under your thumbs and fingers helps massively. I have DC's Injustice: God's Among Us and it used to give me hang cramp until I got a controller.

Also - Bastion played better with a controller, and I like playing JRPG's with a controller too. Mostly because playing on a laptop straming through the TV and sitting in an armchair is much more comfortable than having the laptop on my knee, or having an unwieldy keyboard on my lap when I am only selecting actions and using a grand total of the directonal buttons plus 'select' 'cancel' and 'menu'...

 

[WouldYouKindly]

given how many shooters tend to end up on the Xbox, yeah, I can see that.

other then that *shrugs* KB/M has it's group of games that it excels at with out question,just like the game pad has its group. any spouting non-sense about KB/M being 'teh bees' at everything should be ignored for the ignorant they clearly are.

There are certain games that can be played with both where one is just better though. Shooters are better with KB+M for more precise aiming. Driving games are better with a controller because they have more directions than LEFT and RIGHT. You can go slightly left and slightly right, better throttle control too.

I use both depending on the game I'm playing because I'm not an elitist who would insist on playing a game with a less efficient control scheme.

 

[McMarbles]

So, it's confirmed: no platformers for the X-Bone, ever?

 

[Vigormortis]

Well, now I'm upset... Not because of the how the new controller looks, per se, but the fact that it's looks like it's not even wireless! #loosethewires

Do you mean lose or loose? Because your hashtag takes on completely different meanings depending on which you meant.

Regardless, I have only this to say:
I'll take the speed, reliability, and response-times of a wired mouse over a wireless one any day! Hmph!

 

[Amir Kondori]

OK, should I start now? It is best for RPGs, definitely best for ARPGs, turn based strategy games, point and click adventure games, games like plants vs. zombies and action games like Mount & Blade. Oh, and of course I must mention Typing of the Dead.

I agree with you on some of these, but I really do prefer controllers for most ARPGs that I've played. I can't imagine, for example, attempting Kingdom Hearts on mouse+keyboard.

A lot of these aren't really ideal on gamepad OR mouse+keyboard, though. Plants vs. Zombies is absolutely glorious on a tablet, and Fire Emblem is finer on DS and 3DS than it ever could be on a PC. While I'd never advocate touchscreens as a one-size-fits-all gamepad the way Apple seems to have, I do think it can't be ignored.

But ultimately my point was that there's no one "best" option. We can argue until the sun goes down about which is better for any specific game, but I simply cannot get behind the idea that mouse and keyboard is necessarily "the best". Especially since such a big chunk of professional gaming is fighting games, which depending on the particular game can range from mediocre on a keyboard (Street Fighter) to downright awful (Smash Bros).

I'm a PC gamer, so I'm definitely no stranger to KB+M. I don't have much issue with it on 2D platformers with purely digital movement, and for all first-person and many third-person shooters it's all I'll use. You wouldn't catch me dead trying to play WoW or Age of Empires with a controller either. I like my Sidewinder X4 and I adore my Logitech G9x. But I do think it's utterly foolish for any PC gamer not to keep a controller handy also. I'd lose my mind without a 360 pad handy for those quick Sonic Generations sessions, y'know?

P.S. Thanks

I think we are also ignoring a very important part of it, while a genre may seem best suited to one or the other input at the end of the day the designers pick which control method they will design around. You look at a game like Skyrim, to me that works best with a keyboard and mouse yet because they designed with the controller in mind there are several awkward things about it when using the kb/m.

The other thing is that it comes down to personal preference. Me and a friend were playing Borderlands 2 the other day and over voice chat I found out he was using an xbox 360 pad. He was primarily doing it because he was tired and wanted to lay down while he played, but you would never catch me playing BL2 with my controller. I remember someone stopped into my shop and I had a really nice gaming rig out that I was testing with Crysis, I let the guy play it and because he only gamed on consoles he was very awkward with the keyboard and mouse. I showed him how to use those controls and he started to pick it up pretty quickly. Still, for someone like that who never gamed on a keyboard and mouse the controller is going to feel better to them even in a game like Crysis where you and I would probably prefer a kb/m.

The best thing is when games give you choices and that is one thing I like about gaming on the PC is that I pretty much always have the choice of what input device to use.

 

[FPLOON]

Never understood why hybrids aren't bigger thing (wireless that can be attached to cord).
Such mouse/keyboard would be perfect for gaming.
Batteries died? Just attach cord and keep playing.

You mean like those wireless PS3 controllers you ca still plug into the PS3 using the right USB cable? That's basically where I based most of my wireless controller experience...

Well, now I'm upset... Not because of the how the new controller looks, per se, but the fact that it's looks like it's not even wireless! #loosethewires

Do you mean lose or loose? Because your hashtag takes on completely different meanings depending on which you meant.

Regardless, I have only this to say:
I'll take the speed, reliability, and response-times of a wired mouse over a wireless one any day! Hmph!

Yes, I did mean "loose"... (I know what I said...)

Also, I forgot about the different response time between wired and wireless controllers... mostly because it hasn't hindered me that much[footnote]Or at all, actually...[/footnote] during gameplay...

 

[Magicite Spring]

Sooo, stupid question but, why aren't mouse and keyboards compatible with consoles anyway? They use USB the same as the controllers, so I've never really understood why the devs/manufacturers didn't made them compatible.

I don't know about Xbox One, but last night I discovered that I could plug my usb keyboard and usb mouse into my PS4 and it worked just fine (this was for Final Fantasy XIV so I could actually talk to people okay)

Edit: The real problem is that most games on consoles won't come with keyboard functionality.