The Vaccine

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,905
118
So the first question of course wouldn’t be “Are you going to take it?”, since it sounds like it will be mandatory to retain employment (at least in my state and I presume most-all others).

The real question would be, do you trust it?

The claims of dna alteration have officially been debunked, but it does give one pause. We’re at the mercy of scientists in an age where most FDA-approved medicines contain laundry lists of side effects including death itself. Disease-spurring chemicals are pumped into an average 57.9% of the foods Americans eat. And that’s not exactly a good thing.

“Safe” at this point seems to kind of be beside the point. I’m not sure what the point is anymore, other than adding another band-aid fix to an increasingly apathetic, dysfunctional, bloated society driven by elitist, power-drunk interests.
 
Last edited:

Chimpzy

Simian Abomination
Legacy
Escapist +
Apr 3, 2020
12,189
8,433
118
As someone whose kidneys are slowly but surely failing, I have no choice but to trust and rely on modern medicine. I'm not suffering any ill effects from my condition yet, but I know I will eventually, because of my father, who has the same condition. I know I'll need a transplant sooner or later. I know I will need hemodialysis while waiting for one. I know which meds I'll probably need, and what their side effects will likely be. I know full well that none of it will be especially pleasant.

But it'll be either that or die miserably over the course of maybe a week as my own body poisons me. I don't have the luxury of worrying about side effects. Medicine can and will very much be a do or die for me.

So to answer the question, yes, I would take it. Tho I'm not sure how much of a priority I'd be. Then again, I do work for a food supplier, which sort of makes me an essential worker, so maybe I would end up on the shortlist. Wait and see.
 
Last edited:

SupahEwok

Malapropic Homophone
Legacy
Jun 24, 2010
4,028
1,401
118
Country
Texas
You probably don't understand the material science and engineering principles behind modern bridges, are you still gonna drive over them, or wring your hands and cry over it?

Gib me dat medicine.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,906
1,774
118
Country
United Kingdom
I live with someone with a compromised immune system, so yeah I'm going to get it as soon as I can.

Also, long COVID is fucking insane. Another friend of mine (early 30s, previously in good health) caught it, was sick for a week, and then during recovery had a pulmonary embolism, because apparently it just gives you embolisms sometimes. The virus also caused nerve damage and paralysed one side of her face, which fortunately recovered but could have been permanent or lead to lifelong pain. Four months later she still can't walk to the kitchen without dangerously elevated heart rate. She could very easily have died, and will probably be on anticoagulants for the forseeable future, which in turn means anything which might cause bleeding becomes very dangerous.

If you take the vaccine, the worst that might happen is that you have an allergic reaction, which unless you're very very sick already isn't going to cause you long term harm. COVID can really mess you up. So yeah, that vaccine looks pretty good.
 
Last edited:

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
8,915
782
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
I trust it but I hope I'm not forced to take it for work (IT in hospitals) because I almost certainly had it in March already (both symptom-wise and the fact that I've been with several people for prolonged periods afterward who've had it and I haven't gotten it from them).
 
Last edited:

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
8,598
5,962
118
Okay. My parents' generation had smallpox, scarlet fever; kids dying every year in the thousands from chickenpox, measles, pertussis; infertility from rubella.

The reason people are blase about vaccines is because they live in a world where vaccines have already prevented a tidal wave of human misery, so they don't quite understand just how amazing and important they were, in their mollycoddled state. So what the hell: let's release smallpox back into the world. Let's go back to those days, and see just how much people like it. Because I fucking bet you, bar a very few extremists, the people would be begging for vaccinations to come back. Most of the ones havering about covid-19 are essentially saying "My personal risk is low, so I don't really care (and I if I give to someone else at high risk, that's their problem)."

I am fairly relaxed about drug side effects, because I'm a pharmacologist and I can easily see what they are and why they happen. I get why people feel unhappy because they don't know and don't understand, as the unknown is almost instrinsically scary and relying on others for information is putting oneself in their power, and needs trust. Not that you'd know it, but the last few decades have brought massive advancements in the rigour of testing to improvement in safety, the standards companies are held to, and the quantity and quality of information accessible to the public. "The elites" are by no means blameless: mistakes happen, and there's definitely occasional foul play. Nevertheless, suspicion, fear and distrust is inverse to the real information available.
 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
12,050
2,460
118
Corner of No and Where
It really doesn't.
I mean to be fair if someone said something was gonna alter my DNA I'd at least pause to hear them out. Not believe them mind you, but they obviously have something interesting to say.
Its like when your crazy uncle says "Did I ever tell you of the time me, Santa Clause and a three-titted moose named Marmalade tried to rob a Zeppelin?" You know its not true, but that does sound like something worth hearing.
 

happyninja42

Elite Member
Legacy
May 13, 2010
8,577
2,981
118
I mean to be fair if someone said something was gonna alter my DNA I'd at least pause to hear them out. Not believe them mind you, but they obviously have something interesting to say.
Its like when your crazy uncle says "Did I ever tell you of the time me, Santa Clause and a three-titted moose named Marmalade tried to rob a Zeppelin?" You know its not true, but that does sound like something worth hearing.
well ok, if you are reading the term "gives you pause" to mean "I stop to listen for the lulz" then fine. But that's not what the OP that I quoted was implying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaitSeith

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Jul 16, 2013
3,031
357
88
Okay. My parents' generation had smallpox, scarlet fever; kids dying every year in the thousands from chickenpox, measles, pertussis; infertility from rubella.

The reason people are blase about vaccines is because they live in a world where vaccines have already prevented a tidal wave of human misery, so they don't quite understand just how amazing and important they were, in their mollycoddled state. So what the hell: let's release smallpox back into the world. Let's go back to those days, and see just how much people like it. Because I fucking bet you, bar a very few extremists, the people would be begging for vaccinations to come back. Most of the ones havering about covid-19 are essentially saying "My personal risk is low, so I don't really care (and I if I give to someone else at high risk, that's their problem)."

I am fairly relaxed about drug side effects, because I'm a pharmacologist and I can easily see what they are and why they happen. I get why people feel unhappy because they don't know and don't understand, as the unknown is almost instrinsically scary and relying on others for information is putting oneself in their power, and needs trust. Not that you'd know it, but the last few decades have brought massive advancements in the rigour of testing to improvement in safety, the standards companies are held to, and the quantity and quality of information accessible to the public. "The elites" are by no means blameless: mistakes happen, and there's definitely occasional foul play. Nevertheless, suspicion, fear and distrust is inverse to the real information available.
Yeah, but there is a difference between a one and done vaccine and a recurring circus every year like with the covid vaccine. And even that is an optimistic scenario. It's simply unknown how long immunization lasts with the different vaccines. You also don't know if it no longer can be transmitted to others.

If they vaccinate the risk groups that would unburden the healthcare system which is what all these measures were for in the first place. I do believe the vaccine is 'safe' at this point but ofcourse I don't know how they measure any potential long term side-effects. But other than some incident in the 70s vaccines have a reputation of being safe in general.

I'm not an epidemiologist but wouldn't a respiratory virus also adapt to repeat vaccination? The flu vaccine also slows down the anti-inflammatory response time of macrophages so natural immunity against recurring viruses is also better. Couldn't there, because of this delayed immune response, also be a relation between the flu vaccine and the reported cytokine storms from people with serious covid cases? Recovery from infection puts immune system in higher state of alert, maybe also not unimportant in a world with more novel viruses on the way.

I don't belong to any risk group so I don't see much point until all these 'unknowns' are answered. I haven't seen a doctor in over 2 decades. But if they have good arguments for immunizing the entire population then I also don't really have a problem with it. I also have a hunch that you'll be severely restricted in your travel options when you aren't vaccinated.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
11,228
7,007
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Hell yeah. At least then I can feel a little more free to go out and do things without worrying about bringing it back to my wife, my daughter, my immunocompromised sister with a single lung(because cancer decided to fuck the other one) or my parents who are senior citizens.

I'm fairly sure my employer will end up providing them at some point, like it provides the flu shot every year. It's unknown whether they'll be requiring it(barring a damn good reason, and "It hurts my feelings/the gubmint is spiking it with nanomachines" is not a good reason) but chances they will. Hopefully I can get one for my kid by years end as well, though I realize that'll probably take more time and it'll likely be mandatory to go to back public school at some point.
 

tippy2k2

Beloved Tyrant
Legacy
Mar 15, 2008
14,316
1,492
118
I plan on taking it as soon as I am able to. Our "First Wave" in Minnesota will be Medical Field personnel and nursing home people.

I'm not sure if I'd end up in our expected "Second Wave", which would be more essential personnel and high risk people (I am not an essential person but I do have asthma so my risk of getting Covid should be minimal as I just WFH and have no interaction outside with strangers except to get groceries but if I do get Covid, I have a higher chance of being the person who gets royally fucked up by it). Otherwise the "Third Wave" here would be the general population.

I'm not going to fight to jump in line or anything like that but as soon as I it is "my turn" to get it, I 1000% will get my shot
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
11,025
5,794
118
Country
United Kingdom
I don't belong to any risk group so I don't see much point until all these 'unknowns' are answered.
The point is that getting vaccinated doesn't solely protect you. It also protects those around you who're in at-risk groups, but are unable to take the vaccine themselves. You take the vaccine, you minimise the likelihood of them contracting the disease.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
8,598
5,962
118
Yeah, but there is a difference between a one and done vaccine and a recurring circus every year like with the covid vaccine. And even that is an optimistic scenario. It's simply unknown how long immunization lasts with the different vaccines. You also don't know if it no longer can be transmitted to others.

If they vaccinate the risk groups that would unburden the healthcare system which is what all these measures were for in the first place. I do believe the vaccine is 'safe' at this point but ofcourse I don't know how they measure any potential long term side-effects. But other than some incident in the 70s vaccines have a reputation of being safe in general.

I'm not an epidemiologist but wouldn't a respiratory virus also adapt to repeat vaccination? The flu vaccine also slows down the anti-inflammatory response time of macrophages so natural immunity against recurring viruses is also better. Couldn't there, because of this delayed immune response, also be a relation between the flu vaccine and the reported cytokine storms from people with serious covid cases? Recovery from infection puts immune system in higher state of alert, maybe also not unimportant in a world with more novel viruses on the way.

I don't belong to any risk group so I don't see much point until all these 'unknowns' are answered. I haven't seen a doctor in over 2 decades. But if they have good arguments for immunizing the entire population then I also don't really have a problem with it. I also have a hunch that you'll be severely restricted in your travel options when you aren't vaccinated.
In short, we don't know the answer to much of this until it happens.

Maybe vaccination will last one year (i.e. enough people will be protected sufficiently for long enough) or five or ten or forever. Long-term adverse reactions to the vaccine are a possibility, but an extremely low one. There are quite enough viruses out there to keep the immune system on its toes; bear in mind modern transport has meant transmission of viruses between geographically separated groups is higher and faster than ever and covid-19 is evidence enough. The idea that the flu vaccine contributes to covid-19 cytokine storm sounds to me like a conspiracy theorist's anti-vaxx wet dream hypothesis and merits the dustbin of extreme low likelihood.

I have no particular idea how the 'flu virus is supposed to slow down the response time of macrophages (except perhaps in the very short term after administration): it sounds both scientifically implausible and studies have not identified a significant impairment of immune respone from the 'flu vaccine.
 

Neuromancer

Endless Struggle
Legacy
Mar 16, 2012
5,035
530
118
a homeless squat
Country
None
Gender
Abolish
There's gonna be free distribution in my country. I'll have to see how well that goes. My grandmother and my sister's boyfriend (he's got asthma) take precedence. I'm not in a risk group, so if I gotta wait, I'll wait.
 

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Jul 16, 2013
3,031
357
88
I have no particular idea how the 'flu virus is supposed to slow down the response time of macrophages (except perhaps in the very short term after administration): it sounds both scientifically implausible and studies have not identified a significant impairment of immune respone from the 'flu vaccine.
I read it in a Dutch study about flu vaccination in children. I thought it was interesting but it seems it was never picked up on. You could compare that with covid in adults since we are also ''immunologically naive'' to that.


''Furthermore, it can be hypothesized that the use of these vaccines interferes with the induction of heterosubtypic immunity and virus-specific CD8+ T cell responses otherwise induced by natural infections, especially in children who are immunologically naïve to influenza viruses (7). We tested this hypothesis in mice and ferrets and confirmed that the use of inactivated A/H3N2 vaccines prevented the induction of heterosubtypic immunity to a lethal infection with influenza A/Indonesia/5/05 (H5N1) virus otherwise induced by infection with A/H3N2 influenza virus (46). The prevention of heterosubtypic immunity by H3N2 vaccination correlated with reduced virus-specific CD8+ T cell responses.''