The Vaccine

stroopwafel

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Firstly, take a read of their conclusions a lot more carefully. This meta-analysis doesn't actually say what you think it does.

Secondly, what about all the other studies? We can all cherry pick supporting evidence to backup what we already believe, but that's not how science works. The trick is to read all the evidence, and then see what the evidence points to being most likely.
Well, ok maybe limited efficacy at best but it's still no alternative for distancing as many(most?) people seem to believe. On top of that it's unhygienic and bad for the environment. And ok, an annoyance. xD
 

Silvanus

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Well, ok maybe limited efficacy at best but it's still no alternative for distancing as many(most?) people seem to believe. On top of that it's unhygienic and bad for the environment. And ok, an annoyance. xD
Masks do seem to provoke a bit of an attitudinal issue, with people thinking they don't need to bother with other precautions. This needs to be addressed with better messaging, though, rather than talking down the efficacy of masks.

Because even if masks were only, say, 25% effective, if you extrapolate that over a national population, it's a lot of lives saved and a lot less spread.
 

Agema

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Well, ok maybe limited efficacy at best but it's still no alternative for distancing as many(most?) people seem to believe. On top of that it's unhygienic and bad for the environment. And ok, an annoyance. xD
Well, I certainly agree about a lot of the rest: they can induce complacency, they are bad for the environment (although in the greater scheme of general plastic waste, tolerable for a year). I expect some whizz will take a look at a more environmentally friendly version. As for litter, yes also, although not by my experience as bad as fast food packaging, cans / bottles.
 

Eacaraxe

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We don't know long-term effects of this coronavirus either. So it's a "pick your poison" situation at worst.
Those are becoming clearer, and the difference in this case is that of pharmaceutical industries rushing vaccines out the door using largely unproven tech for which the long-term safety and efficacy are still largely unknown, to cash in before attenuated virus and adenovirus carrier vaccines hit the market. And one of those pharmaceutical corporations is one of the shadiest in the industry, if not the shadiest by a wide margin.


All because certain countries with certain widespread and massive corruption problems more evocative of economic southern kleptocracies than modern, functioning western liberal democracies, have largely decided to say "fuck it" in response to doing halfway sensible things, to keep stonk line not go down.
 

Zeke davis

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I'll take but i'm still going to hold myself in my home til summer at the very earliest.

Apparently you can still get stick but not fubar sick with immunity.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I'll take but i'm still going to hold myself in my home til summer at the very earliest.

Apparently you can still get stick but not fubar sick with immunity.
Without immunity, you already have 20-30% chance of developing no symptoms. With immunity, you'll probably not even notice it. I got "reinfected" most likely and I only noticed the faintish feverish symptom (which was much less than how I felt the day after getting my flu shot), which at the time I didn't think anything of it until a couple days later a friend messaged saying a guy we played board games with all day got sick the next day. Also, I didn't pass it to anyone either as that week of work was literally spent with 6 guys in a single room imaging and apping PCs the whole week and no one got sick.

Unless, you're in some high risk group, driving a car is literally more dangerous than "going out". You have a 2 in a thousand chance of dying from covid while you have a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash in your life (also probably much higher chance of some long-term issue from a crash too). To me, it just makes no sense being afraid of covid when people normally do far more dangerous things as it's below whatever the line they put for what is an acceptable risk but make an exception for covid for really no reason. And, no I'm not saying just ignore the pandemic and live normally "not giving a fuck" but like everything there's a happy medium between 2 extremes.
 

SupahEwok

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Unless, you're in some high risk group, driving a car is literally more dangerous than "going out". You have a 2 in a thousand chance of dying from covid while you have a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash in your life (also probably much higher chance of some long-term issue from a crash too).
Ah, the good ol' "the more dice I roll, the more numbers I get, ignoring that any of them rolling 1 ends it all" fallacy.
 

Gordon_4

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Without immunity, you already have 20-30% chance of developing no symptoms. With immunity, you'll probably not even notice it. I got "reinfected" most likely and I only noticed the faintish feverish symptom (which was much less than how I felt the day after getting my flu shot), which at the time I didn't think anything of it until a couple days later a friend messaged saying a guy we played board games with all day got sick the next day. Also, I didn't pass it to anyone either as that week of work was literally spent with 6 guys in a single room imaging and apping PCs the whole week and no one got sick.

Unless, you're in some high risk group, driving a car is literally more dangerous than "going out". You have a 2 in a thousand chance of dying from covid while you have a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash in your life (also probably much higher chance of some long-term issue from a crash too). To me, it just makes no sense being afraid of covid when people normally do far more dangerous things as it's below whatever the line they put for what is an acceptable risk but make an exception for covid for really no reason. And, no I'm not saying just ignore the pandemic and live normally "not giving a fuck" but like everything there's a happy medium between 2 extremes.
Driving a car is a taught skill, and we’ve been working on making it safer since it came into being. I cannot train my immune system to fight off COVID the same way I can train myself as a driver to avoid bad drivers and other hazards.
 

Gethsemani

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Unless, you're in some high risk group, driving a car is literally more dangerous than "going out". You have a 2 in a thousand chance of dying from covid while you have a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash in your life (also probably much higher chance of some long-term issue from a crash too). To me, it just makes no sense being afraid of covid when people normally do far more dangerous things as it's below whatever the line they put for what is an acceptable risk but make an exception for covid for really no reason. And, no I'm not saying just ignore the pandemic and live normally "not giving a fuck" but like everything there's a happy medium between 2 extremes.
The people who will pay the price for people not taking Covid-19 seriously are our elderly, our chronically ill friends and relatives and all those of us who work in healthcare. The horror stories I'm hearing right now from old colleagues, class mates from college etc. about nurses being pushed to work 60+ hours per week to cope with the demand of increasing Covid infection rates, while their co-workers either get Covid or simply end up so exhausted that they can't come back to work should dissuade everyone from not following guidelines. Healthcare personnel all over the world already outdid themselves this spring and many of them are forced to do so again, because healthcare has a hardtime providing the necessary care for everyone who needs it due to severe Covid cases. In the USA this has been the normal for the last six months.

You don't need to be afraid of Covid, but you're a fucking egotistical prick if you flaunt guidelines because you feel that it is no danger to you. You are just passing the buck to someone who might be weaker and more likely to die and to all the healthcare workers that struggle to save the lives of those people.
 
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Terminal Blue

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Unless, you're in some high risk group, driving a car is literally more dangerous than "going out".
You won't always know if you're in an at risk group.

And again, you can survive covid but be left with horrendous long term health conditions or permanent disability. Boiling it down to the number of people who die is disingenuous.
 
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Zeke davis

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Without immunity, you already have 20-30% chance of developing no symptoms. With immunity, you'll probably not even notice it. I got "reinfected" most likely and I only noticed the faintish feverish symptom (which was much less than how I felt the day after getting my flu shot), which at the time I didn't think anything of it until a couple days later a friend messaged saying a guy we played board games with all day got sick the next day. Also, I didn't pass it to anyone either as that week of work was literally spent with 6 guys in a single room imaging and apping PCs the whole week and no one got sick.

Unless, you're in some high risk group, driving a car is literally more dangerous than "going out". You have a 2 in a thousand chance of dying from covid while you have a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash in your life (also probably much higher chance of some long-term issue from a crash too). To me, it just makes no sense being afraid of covid when people normally do far more dangerous things as it's below whatever the line they put for what is an acceptable risk but make an exception for covid for really no reason. And, no I'm not saying just ignore the pandemic and live normally "not giving a fuck" but like everything there's a happy medium between 2 extremes.
Just so you know i have a multiple defects in heart while i'm mostly asymptomatic it's makes covid more a danger to me.

You didn't know but your ignorance just makes this post more absurd.
 

tstorm823

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Driving a car is a taught skill, and we’ve been working on making it safer since it came into being. I cannot train my immune system to fight off COVID the same way I can train myself as a driver to avoid bad drivers and other hazards.
Not to dispute the point you're trying to make, but this is a pretty apt description of a vaccine.
 

Thaluikhain

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The people who will pay the price for people not taking Covid-19 seriously are our elderly, our chronically ill friends and relatives and all those of us who work in healthcare.
What about people that need a hospital bed for something else serious? Had heard that was expected to be a serious problem, but not sure if that eventuated or not.
 

happyninja42

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What about people that need a hospital bed for something else serious? Had heard that was expected to be a serious problem, but not sure if that eventuated or not.
I don't think that's going to be as big of an impact by comparison, but that doesn't mean it won't have ramifications. I'm sure some people will have issues, especially in the hardest hit zones, with obtaining urgent care if needed, but i don't see it being as well....epidemical as the ACTUAL plague
 

Phoenixmgs

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Ah, the good ol' "the more dice I roll, the more numbers I get, ignoring that any of them rolling 1 ends it all" fallacy.
You can also remove dice that are "lower" but most people don't. I had a friend that was is one of those "STAY HOME AT ALL COSTS!!!!!" people yet drinks a gallon of Pepsi a day. Guess what? That Pepsi is like a D6 vs covid being like a D20. Replacing a D6 with a D20 would overall lower your risk. Also, driving a car is a 1/100 shot while covid is a 2/1,000 shot (and a thousand fold less than that if you're not in a risk group).

Driving a car is a taught skill, and we’ve been working on making it safer since it came into being. I cannot train my immune system to fight off COVID the same way I can train myself as a driver to avoid bad drivers and other hazards.
You can improve your immune system.

The people who will pay the price for people not taking Covid-19 seriously are our elderly, our chronically ill friends and relatives and all those of us who work in healthcare. The horror stories I'm hearing right now from old colleagues, class mates from college etc. about nurses being pushed to work 60+ hours per week to cope with the demand of increasing Covid infection rates, while their co-workers either get Covid or simply end up so exhausted that they can't come back to work should dissuade everyone from not following guidelines. Healthcare personnel all over the world already outdid themselves this spring and many of them are forced to do so again, because healthcare has a hardtime providing the necessary care for everyone who needs it due to severe Covid cases. In the USA this has been the normal for the last six months.

You don't need to be afraid of Covid, but you're a fucking egotistical prick if you flaunt guidelines because you feel that it is no danger to you. You are just passing the buck to someone who might be weaker and more likely to die and to all the healthcare workers that struggle to save the lives of those people.
Again, you misread what I'm saying. It's a false dichotomy to say everyone either stay home or "don't give a fuck". Like almost everything else, there's a happy medium in-between those 2 points. You can just look at Japan who doesn't have some elaborate test and trace program nor did they do the smother strategy like New Zealand, they just use basic common sense and simple policies.

Also, I work in hospitals as IT. And the reason nurses are getting overworked in the hospitals is because of asinine hospital policies. Every single patient (at 2 of the larger healthcare facilities in the Chicagoland area with multiple hospitals) that have any kind of covid symptom (even just a headache) gets sent to the main hospital even though the off-site clinics / doctors' offices could easily handle these patients even if they do indeed have covid. Many patients are being funneled to the main hospitals for really no reason. We also treat covid late instead of early, which increases hospitalizations.

Just so you know i have a multiple defects in heart while i'm mostly asymptomatic it's makes covid more a danger to me.

You didn't know but your ignorance just makes this post more absurd.
I literally said "unless you're in some high-risk group" in my post...
 

Gordon_4

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Not to dispute the point you're trying to make, but this is a pretty apt description of a vaccine.
I am aware the immune system is adaptive and learns, but I find the driving comparison fallacious because I can’t just go to some kind of immune system skidpan and spend a weekend with measles or the flu to give them some wheel time.
 
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Kwak

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Are the politicians getting this, or just nurses?