The Walking Dead Season Two: In Harm's Way Review
Clementine's story takes a turn for the macabre.
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Clementine's story takes a turn for the macabre.
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The Walking Dead Season Two: In Harm's Way Review
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Just finished it myself.
I'm very curious to see how Clem turns out at the end of all this. I'm trying my best to make her follow Lee's example, (good guy Lee, not scum bag Lee).
I'm sensing that Telltale are trying to trip you up with her, make her do something truly nasty, appeal to emotions, but I shall not stray from the path!
Fucking Kenny though man, what a badass.
I'm very curious to see how Clem turns out at the end of all this. I'm trying my best to make her follow Lee's example, (good guy Lee, not scum bag Lee).
I'm sensing that Telltale are trying to trip you up with her, make her do something truly nasty, appeal to emotions, but I shall not stray from the path!
Fucking Kenny though man, what a badass.
Having just finished, I can testify that the ending is extremely dark.
I think my favorite part was just seeing the characters from 400 Days at the compound. It looks like this was the settlement Tavia was talking about. Looking back, the end of 400 Days made it seem like things were going to get better for those people. This was a big fat NOPE to that.
At this point, I'm expecting to see the people who didn't follow Tavia in the next episode.
At this point, I'm expecting to see the people who didn't follow Tavia in the next episode.
Quoted for 100% accuracy.Daystar Clarion said:
I still disagree about with you Jim, about the new crew. Since episode 2 I like them more than the old team, and episode 3 only strengthened that. The only character as of now, that feels out of place for me is
Still, another great episode with great range of emotion delivered through it. I really wish Telltale could speed up a bit with new episodes, but I guess TWD one month and TWAU in another is as good deal as we're gonna get.
Mike. One scene, he's a tired asshole, fights Kenny in the next one, and suddenly he's already well integrated with "we're out of here" crew? No, I don't buy it personally.
Still, another great episode with great range of emotion delivered through it. I really wish Telltale could speed up a bit with new episodes, but I guess TWD one month and TWAU in another is as good deal as we're gonna get.
Well...Yossarian1507 said:
He was grumpy because he wanted sleep when you first meet him, and he was "fighting" with Kenny because Kenny's a jerk and didn't want to do his work. He wasn't even fighting with Kenny, he was pleading with Kenny while Kenny held him up to the window by his neck. Kenny's the asshole, not the other way around.
But I have a different opinion than Jim (for the first time ever). I really felt like I was part of the group in this episode. In episode 2 I really bonded with Rebecca, Alvin, and Luke and in this episode they expanded on that quite a bit for me. I remember a conversation with Nick:
Nick: You think Luke is out there?
Clem: Yea, he'd never leave you guys.
Nick: Us guys, you mean.
Clem: Yea, he'd never leave you guys.
Nick: Us guys, you mean.
After that moment I really felt like I was part of the group and it made me really happy that I kept my promise with Pete. When Luke shows up and puts all his trust in me, I really felt like I was a part of this. And when Carver explains his motivation he's explaining why he's deliberately dragging Clementine into this I actually felt like joining him. I mean, Sterling explains in detail how the antagonists think their in the right? It's even worse than that -- I almost agree with Carver! For most antagonists I would easily brush them off because it's so obvious they're just motivated by greed or some other kind of motivation that paints them as evil. However, Carver's motivation actually made me think..."You know, maybe he's right?"
He pushed Reggie off the roof because Reggie is a fuck-up. All Reggie had to do was make sure that the kids did their job OK and he failed. Carver gave him a simple task and he severely messed it up. What if Carver had given him a more serious job where lives are at stake? All of the "evil" things Carver did? I can almost see the justifications for what he did. I would love for another episode with Carver, but Michael Madsen's voice probably costs a fortune. Now that he's dead I really wonder what will happen with the community.
But yea, I can guess where this is going too, so I have 2 save files, good Clem and Bad. The bad one stayed behind to watch and WOW! Yea, this episode is gruesome at times!
Hell, even my good Clementine shot someone in the face... And he was still able to speak. 
The thing I like the most about TellTale's The Walking Dead is that I can be genuinely excited about a new release and actually receive exactly what I expect from them. If I do that with any other developer I usually end up disappointed.
I did!Andrew Siribohdi said:
She may hate me after that, but she won't turn into a Walker
I wanted to see that guy suffer for what he did. And I was not disappointed! One can not simply throw people from a roof or but a bullet in the head without suffering any consequenses.
Of course I did. It was a no-brainer really...Andrew Siribohdi said:
Lee waited and look how he ended up. You gotta do it right away or she'll probably die.
Carlos' death didn't make me feel anything, because he was barely fleshed out as a character. Hell, Reggie got more fleshed out than Carlos, and he had like ten minutes of screen time.
Also, what's everybody's problem with Sarah? I've heard people get annoyed with her and calling her 'dead weight'. I think it's justified; she's what? 12? It's also established that Carlos has kept her extremely sheltered and coddled her to the point where she's dependent on him. Clearly when she reacts to desperate situations, she's going to react differently then Clementine would.
I felt really unsure about the final decision but:
Didn't cut her arm off but killed the walker. Because of priorities: you couldn't know the walker would be satisfied with her arm alone, there's also a high risk of fainting due to massive bloodloss and / or being captured by one of the many other zombies walking around because of the shock. Finally, people have been saved by amputation some time after being bitten (like Herschel / Dale in the series / comics respectively).
I hope they don't go with the "immediate amputation in the middle of combat" trope. But heck, I'm sure others do hope they go with that
I hope they don't go with the "immediate amputation in the middle of combat" trope. But heck, I'm sure others do hope they go with that
The problem is that she's a relatively reasonable 12 year old, and Clementine is a magical badass 11 year old. Clem isn't even really 11, she's as hardened and old beyond her years as the dialog you pick for her.Andrew Siribohdi said:
So instead of being judged on her own merits, she's compared against a battle-hardened killing machine that would make the Doom marine blush.
IAndrew Siribohdi said:
cut it off, since it was established that the hand has to be cut off very fast to stop the infection. It also freed her of the walker's grasp and I figured taking care of it afterwards (Clem just taking another swing at it or something) wouldn't be that difficult. Also, we have a doctor on board and stopping even a major bleeding like that with a tourniquet is very possible.
I also
stayed to watch Carver's death. Funny enough, I just thought of not leaving Kenny alone to act out his murder fantasy. Figured it'd be good for him to share it with someone. I really like Kenny, don't want him to fall too far on the dark side. Still, a bit worried about how this will affect Clem.
The episode as a whole though
I liked how it kept be wondering, if the place Carver had built was really that bad. It was probably one of the few, truly sustainable communities around and a rare change to live a safe, though hard, life. I don't think there's anything but death outside. In the end though, it was Carver that would've made living in there far too unpredictable and plain dangerous. I don't look kindly at a future where everyone's just gears in a machine.
Overall the end left me with a "well, this is just shit"-feeling. I feel the group falling apart and with the stronger characters getting killed or kicked down the term "dead weight" will definitely become a centerpiece of the end season. But I won't let my Clem think like that. Lee thought her better.
Overall the end left me with a "well, this is just shit"-feeling. I feel the group falling apart and with the stronger characters getting killed or kicked down the term "dead weight" will definitely become a centerpiece of the end season. But I won't let my Clem think like that. Lee thought her better.
You're absolutely right. I didn't phrase my thoughts correctly in my last post, let me try again:Steve Waltz said:
Yes, Mike's behaviour is understandable in all of those scenes, I'm not denying that. What I am denying, is him suddenly sitting with the breakout group consisting of only people from the previous escape + Kenny and Sarita, and talking about the plan, like they know each other perfectly well, and are all escape-buddies. There was no prior scene that would indicate anything that would lead to it. Reggie introduced him to the crew, ergo they didn't know him previously. None of the scenes with him showed any type of bonding with the group. Jane marched in a bit later, but in a believable "hey, I heard your conversation, I'm in, here's and idea for the next step of the plan" fashion, and Bonnie was accepted because there was honestly no other way to go, but to accept her help. Mike has none of those things going for him, therefore I view him as out of this setting character in the whole group. Knowing Telltale though, they'll make him do something awesome/touching, and I will cry like a baby, when he'll inevitably die horribly somewhere down the line.
I partially agree with you, but I am curious if you made the same dialogue choice I did at one point.Yossarian1507 said:
When Mike and Kenny were fighting, I immediately told them about Reggie (I think it was the X option). At that point, Mike made a shocked "WHAT?" before the walker busted through the window. They didn't seem super tight, but Mike at least showed some concern for Reggie and could've led to some off-screen conversation with the group (common enemy and whatnot). It's certainly the point where Bonnie seems to not believe Carver is in the right. I agree it did seem kind of fast though, and Mike does seem to have the least connection or significance to the group. Of course it's not the player's fault considering no dialogue choice should be considered "wrong", but just saying in case you didn't select that option.
Regarding the episode and season 2 so far:
Overall I enjoyed the episode. Not much of a change in scenery and a lot less action than I hoped for, but whatever. Carver was definitely an interesting sort of villain that makes complete sense (in theory). He was starting agriculture, kept rations, had very little tolerance for slackers, started power generation, and the entire place was the most organized and secure out of all the settlements so far. Sorry it had to turn out this way, old chap. And the 400 Days cameos were neat, though I wonder what will happen to the people you don't bring to the settlement (I didn't have Russell), though I fucking CALLED IT that when we saw Bonnie that Tavia's place was bad news. And with the whole "let's trust a kid to do all these important things", at least they tried to acknowledge why Clem would do some of these things (size, weight, being the least likely to get killed, knowing the original group more, etc).
I really don't know where they're going to go after this. Season 1 had a clear goal during the 3rd episode (and teased in earlier episodes), but here it doesn't. I can see a sort of thematic path (Clem losing her humanity/innocence and faith in her friends), but I don't know.
Season 2 may or may not be stronger than the first season, but personally I enjoy the new crew and cared whenever they died (damn it Nick, I didn't want you to go the way you did in ep 2. I felt like a dirtbag). There isn't as much inter-personal tension, but perhaps that's because of how long it's been and they've been through so much together. Season 1 had people together out of pure circumstance and they were essentially stuck together in a box for several months with a lot of conflicting personalities, huddled together out of hope this will resolve or because of some common goal (the boat and Savannah). The new group (minus Kenny and Sarita) must've been together for a long time, and came along with each other because they wanted to. There's a bit more closeness there that the original group didn't, and that's where the "factions" ("Team Kenny" and "Team Lily", though you can stretch it to "Team Christa/Omid" eventually) in season 1 came from early on and you see the ripples they created and learning about everyone's angle and history. This doesn't seem to be a major thing in season 2, which may lead to some of the apathy I've been seeing. Shit keeps happening, so there aren't a lot of times were I we can just sit around and talk about Carlos' career before the walkers came, or what baby names Alvin and Rebecca were going to choose, or other bits of flavour that made us grow closer to the characters.
I really don't know where they're going to go after this. Season 1 had a clear goal during the 3rd episode (and teased in earlier episodes), but here it doesn't. I can see a sort of thematic path (Clem losing her humanity/innocence and faith in her friends), but I don't know.
Season 2 may or may not be stronger than the first season, but personally I enjoy the new crew and cared whenever they died (damn it Nick, I didn't want you to go the way you did in ep 2. I felt like a dirtbag). There isn't as much inter-personal tension, but perhaps that's because of how long it's been and they've been through so much together. Season 1 had people together out of pure circumstance and they were essentially stuck together in a box for several months with a lot of conflicting personalities, huddled together out of hope this will resolve or because of some common goal (the boat and Savannah). The new group (minus Kenny and Sarita) must've been together for a long time, and came along with each other because they wanted to. There's a bit more closeness there that the original group didn't, and that's where the "factions" ("Team Kenny" and "Team Lily", though you can stretch it to "Team Christa/Omid" eventually) in season 1 came from early on and you see the ripples they created and learning about everyone's angle and history. This doesn't seem to be a major thing in season 2, which may lead to some of the apathy I've been seeing. Shit keeps happening, so there aren't a lot of times were I we can just sit around and talk about Carlos' career before the walkers came, or what baby names Alvin and Rebecca were going to choose, or other bits of flavour that made us grow closer to the characters.
Choices:
Helped Sarah (I feel sorry for Reggie. He really didn't deserve that, no matter how much of a screw up he was. But I also feel like Sarah had it rough this episode, particularly in that slapping scene)
Didn't tell Bonnie about Luke (I thought this would've been the obvious choice?)
Restrained Sarita (if she got loose, I thought they would've beaten or killed her. But damn it Kenny, I shouldn't have doubted you in season 1, you fucking BAMF)
Stayed and watched Kenny bash Carver's face in (if I was Lee, I wouldn't have let Clem see it. But no, I WANTED this)
Took Sarita's arm (I don't care if she lives because of it. Hearing that scream and seeing her expression before the cut was BRUTAL. So much shorter than Lee's amputation scene, but still a lot of punch)
Didn't tell Bonnie about Luke (I thought this would've been the obvious choice?)
Restrained Sarita (if she got loose, I thought they would've beaten or killed her. But damn it Kenny, I shouldn't have doubted you in season 1, you fucking BAMF)
Stayed and watched Kenny bash Carver's face in (if I was Lee, I wouldn't have let Clem see it. But no, I WANTED this)
Took Sarita's arm (I don't care if she lives because of it. Hearing that scream and seeing her expression before the cut was BRUTAL. So much shorter than Lee's amputation scene, but still a lot of punch)
And I'll just toss this in about Sarah. My friend and I have talked a lot about her.
We think Sarah might POSSIBLY have some sort of disability (if you had Shel and Becca come to the settlement, Becca talks badly about how weird Sarah is too and how she's surprised Carver brought her back). She's sheltered, awkward, and dependent, but to a pathological degree to the point where it seems she doesn't fully appreciate the situation she's in despite the walkers being around for at least 2 years. Sarah is certainly aware the walkers exist and are a threat (signalling she DOES know what's happening on the outside world), but at the same time she's so much less mentally capable than anyone else PERIOD. Have your opinions on Duck, but he stayed out of trouble (minus the tractor indecent, but that was only a few days in and he was being a reckless city kid). Sarah was yapping so casually when Carver was talking, despite the fact that she knows he's a bad man and wouldn't hesitate to beat anyone. Carlos slapped her because she didn't want her to be hurt, but by the end of it, she just saw it as "Daddy slapped me". It's like she didn't fully process what happened. I guess for that reason I never really hated her or sneered at her for being dead weight. It could be something bigger that can't be fixed by telling her to buck up. Carlos doesn't seem like the kind of person that would coddle her so much that she couldn't function without him (unless some piece of story was hidden to me/the players). I remember Carlos in ep 1 said "She isn't like you. You may not get that initially, but once you're around her for a while you'll understand". It sounds a bit different than "She's my precious little snowflake and the big bad world is too big and bad for her" (even though what he said afterwards could be interpreted as that, but isn't exclusive to just simple coddling).
Of course she could just be REALLY sheltered without any clinical reason and we just looked too far into it. Either way, her behaviour isn't something that can be easily fixed by telling her to put up with it, and that's the heart of how we can't really come to hate her. My friend and I were just spit-balling and I thought I would share our findings since there was some Sarah talk. Could also be from some kind of abuse considering her behaviour last episode when we first see Carver, as well as in this episode where Carver puts his hands on her shoulders after shoving Reggie off.
Of course she could just be REALLY sheltered without any clinical reason and we just looked too far into it. Either way, her behaviour isn't something that can be easily fixed by telling her to put up with it, and that's the heart of how we can't really come to hate her. My friend and I were just spit-balling and I thought I would share our findings since there was some Sarah talk. Could also be from some kind of abuse considering her behaviour last episode when we first see Carver, as well as in this episode where Carver puts his hands on her shoulders after shoving Reggie off.
I actually didn't know that.Raggedstar said:
I just told them to stop fighting.
It does make a bit of sense, but in this case, it's a shame that Telltale went on with it, even though for some of the players it created a completely out of the left field situation, which was formed entirely off-screen.
Eh, I guess it's not a gamebreaker. I can handle it, it's still an interesting story, and I can't wait to see how will it end.
Well,karma9308 said:
that's EXACTLY what Carver was talking about in the episode and which is why I felt so conflicted about him as a "villain." I mean, think about it for a second. It's extremely mean, yea, but it's survival! The evil things Carver did were all about survival and justifiable in some sense. You chop off her arm with the intent of saving her life. She'll probably die just as the guy in Season 1 Ep.2 when Lee chopped off his leg. Especially now with Carlos gone. But that's why I love this episode so much, I think. Morality is getting blurred by the haze of survival. Is it REALLY evil if all you're trying to do is survive? Honestly, I wonder if Clementine is going to turn into Carver by the end of the season.
Hm.. Yea. Maybe they bonded or something while Clementine wasn't around? Who knows? All I know is that you're probably right. Telltale's going to make me care for Mike at one point or another. But also with Bonnie, she knew the group before Clementine was around. There's even that part where Bonnie tells Clem that she was supposed to leave with the group first time around, so her siding with them is quite believable as well.Yossarian1507 said:
I really liked the ending and I can't wait where to we go from that point.
Think I'll just wait for a thread with spoiler tags in the title so I can speak freely. I'd rather not have conversations about it with dozens of spoiler boxes.
Think I'll just wait for a thread with spoiler tags in the title so I can speak freely. I'd rather not have conversations about it with dozens of spoiler boxes.