The Witcher: Sixteen Hours of Love

Mezahmay

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Is it just me or is the actual comic uploaded Afterbirth again? That is what I currently see and I'm not sure it's supposed to be that way.
 

bliebblob

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Uh-oh I'm getting the same one as a couple of days ago. Perhaps a mistake? :S
 

The Wooster

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Mezahmay said:
Is it just me or is the actual comic uploaded Afterbirth again? That is what I currently see and I'm not sure it's supposed to be that way.
bliebblob said:
Uh-oh I'm getting the same one as a couple of days ago. Perhaps a mistake? :S
Mezahmay said:
Is it just me or is the actual comic uploaded Afterbirth again? That is what I currently see and I'm not sure it's supposed to be that way.
bliebblob said:
Uh-oh I'm getting the same one as a couple of days ago. Perhaps a mistake? :S
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE COMIC IS FINE.

I DIDN'T FUCK IT UP.

edit: I did fuck up this quote though. Jesus Christ. I'm some kind of omegaspastic.
 

bliebblob

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The Wooster said:
Mezahmay said:
Is it just me or is the actual comic uploaded Afterbirth again? That is what I currently see and I'm not sure it's supposed to be that way.
bliebblob said:
Uh-oh I'm getting the same one as a couple of days ago. Perhaps a mistake? :S
Mezahmay said:
Is it just me or is the actual comic uploaded Afterbirth again? That is what I currently see and I'm not sure it's supposed to be that way.
bliebblob said:
Uh-oh I'm getting the same one as a couple of days ago. Perhaps a mistake? :S
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE COMIC IS FINE.

I DIDN'T FUCK IT UP.

edit: I did fuck up this quote though. Jesus Christ. I'm some kind of omegaspastic.
I... That's strange, for a moment there I had this weird vision that something was wrong... Silly me, everything is fine. It always was. It always will be. Forever. *Psycho smile*
 

ForumSafari

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You know, maybe I'm unusual (i think not) but the entire thing about the Companion Cube was that it reflected GLaDOS' complete misunderstanding of how friendship and love work rather than that you were seriously supposed to be attached tot he cube.

Fuck knows I wasn't.
 

Roofstone

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Well, at least the witcher tends to have quality sex at least, no matter the reason.

ForumSafari said:
You know, maybe I'm unusual (i think not) but the entire thing about the Companion Cube was that it reflected GLaDOS' complete misunderstanding of how friendship and love work rather than that you were seriously supposed to be attached tot he cube.

Fuck knows I wasn't.
I tried trickshotting the cube into the furnace.. Several times.. Until I finally did it after beating on the cube for ten minutes or so.
...I was not very attached.
 

Casual Shinji

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ForumSafari said:
You know, maybe I'm unusual (i think not) but the entire thing about the Companion Cube was that it reflected GLaDOS' complete misunderstanding of how friendship and love work rather than that you were seriously supposed to be attached tot he cube.

Fuck knows I wasn't.
You're not.

But as with everything in Portal during the height of its popularity, it too just became another meme.
 

ForumSafari

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Casual Shinji said:
But as with everything in Portal during the height of its popularity, it too just became another meme.
Which is a pity as a lot of the cake stuff is quite funny when you view it in context but the Internet indeed did ruin Portal.

Incidentally this is part of why this strip fell short for me, the Witcher approach may be wrong (we won't know for a while either way) but realistically no one seems to be able to point to a game that did whatever it is it's done wrong right.
 

Casual Shinji

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ForumSafari said:
Incidentally this is part of why this strip fell short for me, the Witcher approach may be wrong (we won't know for a while either way) but realistically no one seems to be able to point to a game that did whatever it is it's done wrong right.
You mean creating an attachment in a short amount of time or just sex? Because I can point to two games that did either (arguably) quite well.

I think it all depends on how you viewed CD Project's previous attempts at "maturity". If you liked the way the handled the sex in the first two games, chances are you'll like what they're going to do in the third. But if you didn't, than The Witcher 3 probably won't change that.
 

Lightknight

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I'm not sure that caring about the companion cube was natural to the game rather than something we as a culture provided later. Did we view the companion cube as something more special due to some personification? Sure. But it wasn't as meaningful as a full relationship with a living being would have been.

Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
 

sageoftruth

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Well, I suppose it's true, considering he said "Quickest". If he said, "Most effective" than I'd be pretty skeptical. I just hope they don't forget the other methods as well. The relationship between Geralt and Yennefer is an interesting one.
 

The Wooster

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The good thing is...

We are getting both. A scene like the one from the beginning of Witcher 2 (except with Yennefer) AND some dialogue.
In other words... where is the problem?
Cause I dont see it.

*Though I read the books so I already have the relationship established*
 

ForumSafari

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Casual Shinji said:
You mean creating an attachment in a short amount of time or just sex? Because I can point to two games that did either (arguably) quite well.

I think it all depends on how you viewed CD Project's previous attempts at "maturity". If you liked the way the handled the sex in the first two games, chances are you'll like what they're going to do in the third. But if you didn't, than The Witcher 3 probably won't change that.
I actually liked the previous games, particularly the second. In fact I thought it was a very sharp game generally in terms of characterisation and dialogue.

In terms of request I meant a game that built up a realistic romantic partner. Buddies, or at least people whose witticisms you enjoy, are one thing as are characters you might want to see naked. A meaningful relationship with another character, even jsut the feeling of one existing, is pretty rare in games.

As humorous as the interview was when viewed askance I'm unwilling to write it off or critique their opinions when compared to other games, who pretty much all fuck it up spectacularly. It could be that it's shit but I'm not going to critique their approach until I try it because lord knows the Bioware approach just left me trying to find a way to get the hell out of a relationship I wandered in to by accident.
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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Have not played and Witcher games, but if the main character is someone who sleeps around a lot, wouldn't showing sex between him and her actually decrease our connection to her? I mean, the relationship has already been carried out to that stage, and all we know is that they've had sex, and that's supposed to make us pursue her? Why? How?

Dialogue is definitely the best way to establish relationships. Baldur's Gate 2 did it far better than any of the Mass Effect games without showing any sex at all.
 

sageoftruth

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Lightknight said:
I'm not sure that caring about the companion cube was natural to the game rather than something we as a culture provided later.

Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?
Nah! The problem wasn't that they said "sex makes you care about a character". It was that it sounded like they were saying, "Sex is the ONLY reason to care about a character." I don't think they meant to imply that, but that was how it came across to a bunch of people including me when I first heard about it.
 

Fox12

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*Sees fire, adds a gallon of gasoline*

I love this comic.

ForumSafari said:
Casual Shinji said:
You mean creating an attachment in a short amount of time or just sex? Because I can point to two games that did either (arguably) quite well.

I think it all depends on how you viewed CD Project's previous attempts at "maturity". If you liked the way the handled the sex in the first two games, chances are you'll like what they're going to do in the third. But if you didn't, than The Witcher 3 probably won't change that.
I actually liked the previous games, particularly the second. In fact I thought it was a very sharp game generally in terms of characterisation and dialogue.

In terms of request I meant a game that built up a realistic romantic partner. Buddies, or at least people whose witticisms you enjoy, are one thing as are characters you might want to see naked. A meaningful relationship with another character, even jsut the feeling of one existing, is pretty rare in games.

As humorous as the interview was when viewed askance I'm unwilling to write it off or critique their opinions when compared to other games, who pretty much all fuck it up spectacularly. It could be that it's shit but I'm not going to critique their approach until I try it because lord knows the Bioware approach just left me trying to find a way to get the hell out of a relationship I wandered in to by accident.
As far as relationships go, I think a few games did right. Some of the early Final Fantasies did a decent job, particularly 6 and 7. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I thought Tifa and Cloud actually had a pretty well developed relationship, regardless of what you think of the rest of the game. Silent Hill 2 did a good job as well, despite the fact that you don't see much of Mary. There's a lot of substance there. Mass Effect was pretty iffy with romance (I somehow accidentally had sex with Jack) but I thought they did a pretty good job with friendship. Garrus was a great character. Outside of games, it becomes much easier. UP made me love the characters in less then ten minutes. So did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le34ygtODfI

Both without dialogue. There are some good games with good writing.

As for sex, that's hard. I'm sure there are great games with well done sex scenes, but I can't think of many. Most of them were implied, not shown, like the aforementioned FF7 romance. Saints Rows parodies did a pretty good job of showing what's wrong with most video game relationships.
 

Phasmal

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Lightknight said:
I'm not sure that caring about the companion cube was natural to the game rather than something we as a culture provided later. Did we view the companion cube as something more special due to some personification? Sure. But it wasn't as meaningful as a full relationship with a living being would have been.

Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
I think there's a difference between- `I think what he said about this is dumb` and `sex is icky and we should all be prudes`, and it's kinda weird how everyone who wasn't impressed by what the guy said is getting lumped into the second category.

But I'm not particularly fussed, I mean, it's the Witcher, dumb sex stuff is pretty much required.

Also, I only cared about the companion cube after I threw it away and then I felt a bit guilty.
 

Sanunes

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Blood Brain Barrier said:
Have not played and Witcher games, but if the main character is someone who sleeps around a lot, wouldn't showing sex between him and her actually decrease our connection to her? I mean, the relationship has already been carried out to that stage, and all we know is that they've had sex, and that's supposed to make us pursue her? Why? How?

Dialogue is definitely the best way to establish relationships. Baldur's Gate 2 did it far better than any of the Mass Effect games without showing any sex at all.
I don't think it was the dialogue alone that made those Baldur's Gate relationships better, but also the fact they didn't spell everything out for we could use our imagination to try and embellish the conversations and interactions with our own experiences and feelings. Which is why I am not sure spending 16 hours on sexual encounter motion capture is going to produce the results that they are wanting.

It is also one of the reasons why I think that BioWare has finally started to make improvements in their relationship structure with Inquisition unlike the past four or five games for they are leaving parts of it to the imagination and I hope they continue to explore that avenue.
 

Erttheking

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You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
 

Fox12

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Lightknight said:
Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
I think that they were saying that we need to be prudish, and live by other peoples value systems. Grey and Cory are both pretty infamous for hating sex, which is why Critical Miss never deals with it.

This is, of course, a ridiculous attitude. Sex is the best, most expedient way to show a relationship between two characters when you don't understand how human interaction works. I know that I never would have cared about Agro, from Shadow of the Colossus, if they hadn't included that intimate scene where Wander dry humps his leg.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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erttheking said:
You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
*cough* Persona 4 *cough*

At least The Witcher 2's scenes relating to Triss were more tasteful and believable than most other games that tried to handle sex.

Hopefully CDProjekt will continue and make them less pander-y as time goes on :)
 

Erttheking

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Sigmund Av Volsung said:
erttheking said:
You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
*cough* Persona 4 *cough*

At least The Witcher 2's scenes relating to Triss were more tasteful and believable than most other games that tried to handle sex.

Hopefully CDProjekt will continue and make them less pander-y as time goes on :)
This is...possibly...true. My friends and I have always had a long debate over "You spent a LONG time with X" was supposed to mean. I like to think it was just cuddling because I'm a sap like that.

Still, you do have a point in at least they don't show the sex.
 

kannibus

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Sixteen hours?!

I'm gonna be brutally honest with myself here and say that anything beyond sixteen seconds is pushing it...

Or better yet sexteen seconds...

BA DUM TISH!
 

WouldYouKindly

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Makes sense if you're talking about someone new to the series. Any one familiar with the Witcher knows the characters well enough to understand the motivation without gratuitous T&A. You can also definitely do it better but I give them leeway.

erttheking said:
This is...possibly...true. My friends and I have always had a long debate over "You spent a LONG time with X" was supposed to mean. I like to think it was just cuddling because I'm a sap like that.

Still, you do have a point in at least they don't show the sex.
Not showing has very little to do with the implication, IMO.

What do two teenagers obviously romantically interested in each other do that might take a long time? Ohhh, now I get it, unless they use a lot of time for build up, it's most likely going to be a quite short time.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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I never quite understood the big to do about sex in video games. People have sex. Sex is awesome. In a more fantasy oriented world without all the distractions we have now, I would think people would be having even MORE sex. So is it really that strange to just depict it as it is? I'd rather see a game depicting casual sex than sex as some kind of grand achievement for fulfilling all the 'romance' dialogue options leading up to it.

Enough with the sexual taboo already.
 

Bedinsis

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Is that Henrik Johanneson a real person?
 

Sanunes

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erttheking said:
You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
That is how at least the "romance" with Josephine in Dragon Age: Inquisition finished, which of course there people who are "outraged" about it because they didn't get to see digital skin.
 

Mangue Surfer

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Showing people making sweet love down by the fire sell me the idea there's something going on between them.
So, the polemic is?
 

Erttheking

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Sanunes said:
erttheking said:
You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
That is how at least the "romance" with Josephine in Dragon Age: Inquisition finished, which of course there people who are "outraged" about it because they didn't get to see digital skin.
Interesting. When I finally get through the first two dragon age games and play Inquisition, I'll see if this Josephine doesn't mind hooking up with a female Quanari mage.
 

klaynexas3

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erttheking said:
Sanunes said:
erttheking said:
You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
That is how at least the "romance" with Josephine in Dragon Age: Inquisition finished, which of course there people who are "outraged" about it because they didn't get to see digital skin.
Interesting. When I finally get through the first two dragon age games and play Inquisition, I'll see if this Josephine doesn't mind hooking up with a female Quanari mage.
She doesn't, I know, I am a Quanari mage.

Also, the Hermit romance path in Persona 3, though, I guess the lead up is to her being frustrated and failing to ask you out on a date, but still, it wasn't sex.
 

Haru17

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No amount of quotes with dubious gender politics will make the fucking companion cube even a half way decent character. Take the Valve fanboyism and go home.
 

The Wooster

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Phasmal said:
Lightknight said:
I'm not sure that caring about the companion cube was natural to the game rather than something we as a culture provided later. Did we view the companion cube as something more special due to some personification? Sure. But it wasn't as meaningful as a full relationship with a living being would have been.

Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
I think there's a difference between- `I think what he said about this is dumb` and `sex is icky and we should all be prudes`, and it's kinda weird how everyone who wasn't impressed by what the guy said is getting lumped into the second category.
It's the go-to argument whenever people think a game's precious "maturity" is under-siege from them-evil-SJW-types. It's far easier to characterize critics as prudes (for the record, we had to edit a strip about two weeks due to, and I quote, "the definition of the labia and the butt cleavage") than address criticism of a particular approach.
 

wulf3n

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Kind of funny, though it misses the point of the quote completely.

The game isn't trying to build the relationship, it's trying to establish it, the relationship is the call to action. My guess is they want to get into the meat of the game as quickly as possible.

But really
Sex is the quickest way in which to establish the relationship and provide a justification for the player to pursue this woman ... We couldn't just tell you to go find someone you don't know or care about.
Yeah we know, it was the plot of the Witcher 2.

Why is no one making a joke about that?
 
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Casual Shinji said:
If you liked the way the handled the sex in the first two games, chances are you'll like what they're going to do in the third. But if you didn't, than The Witcher 3 probably won't change that.
The thing is, both of those games approached sex differently enough to like one and dislike another. In first we had that silly poke-em-all card game, while the direction of sex scenes in 2nd was generally well received. So far i've seen progress and i'm cautiously hoping REDs won't drop the ball in 3rd installment.
 

Abomination

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Geralt's a womanizer, Witchers are known to be sterile, he's got a body of marble, he loves Yennefer and has not seen her in a very long time. People have sex, they frequently do not need a very elaborate reason beyond just wanting to.

This is the "fastest" way to establish the relationship between Geralt and Yennefer without needing the player to go through Witcher 1 & 2 again.

Great move by CD Projekt red though, this is playing right into the hands of viral media because sex in games or being casual about sex will get this type of coverage and threads. The games media has been Meta'd so hard into advertising The Witcher 3 for free.

And Grey Carter has fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
 

American Fox

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Is the title a reference to that awesome Australian ska band, Seven Seconds Of Love?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3X_QqneKcU
 

blackrave

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erttheking said:
You know what'd be neat? A build up romance where the final stage isn't sex. Instead they just sit down and watch a movie, grab a bite to eat, or just hang out in general.
Really? I must have been playing wrong Witcher games.
In MY version of 1&2 significant part of the game was about his relationship with Triss (and conflict of interest that resulted from it). For most part sex WAS optional.
Granted he fucked around a lot, but Geralt is well known slut after all.

P.S. As far as fidelity goes I'm pretty sure Triss is as much of a slut as Geralt. At least that's the vibe I get from her character.
P.P.S. And then there is Yennefer. Things will get interesting :)
P.P.P.S. Lets be honest for a moment here. Only game that truly nailed romance was Saints Row 4.
 

The Wooster

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Caramel Frappe said:
This is how I felt like 80% of the relationships in Mass Effect went down.

You'd bond a bit, exchange a few dialogues along with showing interest then BAM!! Suddenly surprise butt-sex to the audience before the final mission with said female character & your Shepard. Only relationship that had more weight was Tali's personally but i'm just a fan boy of hers so... that doesn't count lol.

But yeah man, this comic is sadly quite accurate apart from the joke in the last panel. Most games go that route.
I dunno I think people are often unfair on Mass Effect's romances.
Like I'm replaying through the original Mass Effect at the moment and I think the romance between maleshep and Ashley is pretty good if a bit cliched. There's a fair bit of flirting back and forth between the two but with nothing coming from it due to the military rules on fraternisation. They almost share a kiss in a moment of weakness but are interrupted before anything happens, and when they're going on a potential suicide mission and realise there's a significant chance they're both going to die they say "fuck the rules" and just go for it.
Like I say, a bit cliched but far from going from showing slight interest to a sudden sex scene.
 

Lightknight

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Fox12 said:
Lightknight said:
Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
I think that they were saying that we need to be prudish, and live by other peoples value systems. Grey and Cory are both pretty infamous for hating sex, which is why Critical Miss never deals with it.

This is, of course, a ridiculous attitude. Sex is the best, most expedient way to show a relationship between two characters when you don't understand how human interaction works. I know that I never would have cared about Agro, from Shadow of the Colossus, if they hadn't included that intimate scene where Wander dry humps his leg.
They didn't say it was the best, most expedient way. They just said it was the quickest method to establish intimacy. And it is.

The point people should be making is that "quickest" often isn't the "best". A game that makes you grow to care about the characters in meaningful ways is far more interesting than the quick way (to most of us anyways). The developer wasn't wrong about the expedience of sex in developing intimacy, but in the real world we know that's a physical level sort of intimacy and not a deeper caring of a real relationship. A good example would be Ellie from The Last of Us. That relationship was developed through time and hardship. I can't imagine caring more about some character my avatar only slept with than I'd cared for Ellie who the avatar never touched.

So please understand, my contention here isn't regarding the value of non-sexual relationships. It's disappointment at completely missing what the developers were saying. Sex is fast, dialogue takes more time. It's true. But the response in the cartoon is a red-herring that other relationships can be meaningful too. Yes they are but that's not the point. The cartoon could have made their point with a qualitative distinction that sexual relationships are often shallow unless founded in more dynamic relationship background. But if their contention was that sex was used at all then that throws the logical approach out the window.
 

Lightknight

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The Wooster said:
Phasmal said:
Lightknight said:
I'm not sure that caring about the companion cube was natural to the game rather than something we as a culture provided later. Did we view the companion cube as something more special due to some personification? Sure. But it wasn't as meaningful as a full relationship with a living being would have been.

Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
I think there's a difference between- `I think what he said about this is dumb` and `sex is icky and we should all be prudes`, and it's kinda weird how everyone who wasn't impressed by what the guy said is getting lumped into the second category.
It's the go-to argument whenever people think a game's precious "maturity" is under-siege from them-evil-SJW-types. It's far easier to characterize critics as prudes (for the record, we had to edit a strip about two weeks due to, and I quote, "the definition of the labia and the butt cleavage") than address criticism of a particular approach.
They misconstrued what the developers said and decided instead that the developers were saying sex is the only way to establish a relationship. Only the frattiest of frat boys would think something like that (that it's the only way). Instead, they (the developers) made the claim that it establishes intimacy faster other methods which tends to be true since other methods require extra dialogue and experiential foundations that often take longer than dancing naked.

So why misconstrue such an obvious point? Why pretend like they were saying it was the only way and use an example like the companion cube that not only took in-game time to cultivate but also some gamer community involvement to reach the level of care it did. So I asked a question, do they feel like sex is bad? Why is what the developer said bad? If they said it was the only method to achieve intimacy then we could all have a good laugh at them. But this sort of straw-manning followed by the inevitable red-herring of proof is just weird.

I was unaware that these artists were SJWs. Seems like they're all over the place politically and it's fun to watch but makes the motivations difficult to ascertain. Which is why I asked if they were genuinely trying to make a point or just having a laugh. Jokes often don't need to be deconstructed, someone making a point does to understand the point more fully.

But yeah, sure, you can assume I was attacking the authors as SJW types if it makes you feel better to believe you're not dealing with someone who is actually thinking about what's being said. But I seriously doubt this failure to get the developer's point would have happened had their comment been about something other than sex which leads me to question whether or not sex itself was the issue here. If so, why? Prudishness is a legitimate motivation. If your assumption is that I was taking a stab against SJWs then perhaps that provides another motivation. That motivation to have sex with women is bad. Am I wrong about those options if it being about sex is the cornerstone of why it's being brought up? I mean, maybe it's just that the witcher developer was talking about his upcoming Elmo game and the writers thought that was inappropriate :p

Seeing as I just figured out that you are an author, perhaps you could shed some light on this. Is sex in games bad? Is a motivation that is very real in real life somehow bad to portray or not an extremely rapid method of motivation for a lot of people as to why they're going to pursue someone? I'd be very interested in your honest opinion. We can even take it to PM if you'd prefer. I'd be fascinated to have such a discussion with someone whose views differ so much from my own. I could learn a lot about your perspective if you have the time.
 

Macsen Wledig

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I hate sex in video games, not because I'm a prude but because it's always so awkward and unrealistic. I feel it's only been slapped in to appease teenage boys who haven't worked out how to use the internet yet. It's always a case of just following a particular dialogue tree and then all of a sudden character #253421 will now fall madly in love with you. Congratulations! achievement "No longer a virgin" unlocked. Um, okay...
 

mad825

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Abomination said:
Geralt's a womanizer, Witchers are known to be sterile, he's got a body of marble, he loves Yennefer and has not seen her in a very long time. People have sex, they frequently do not need a very elaborate reason beyond just wanting to.

This is the "fastest" way to establish the relationship between Geralt and Yennefer without needing the player to go through Witcher 1 & 2 again.
lul wut?

Geralt has or had amnesia, it's really hard to have any devotion to a woman he cannot remember. In WT2, we see Geralt becoming more restraint as he loves Triss however towards the end of the game Geralt regains his memory and thus the relationship between triss is much more complicated especially when it appears that the sorcerers lodge is using Geralt to their own ends (TW1- triss and Eilhart cutscene hint hint).

In chapter 1 in TW2. You're given a choice to give your opinion on the Triss-Yennefer love triangle, you can say that you'll stay devoted to triss or things are "unsure". As such, casual flings are now a rarity.
 

Fox12

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Lightknight said:
Fox12 said:
Lightknight said:
Is the point of this that sex in games is icky and people need to be more prudish and live by other people's values or is this just a joke to enjoy in passing as I'm enjoying it now?

A romantic relationship is an incredibly fast way to establish intimacy. He wasn't technically wrong. Portal had to stew that relationship for quite some time.
I think that they were saying that we need to be prudish, and live by other peoples value systems. Grey and Cory are both pretty infamous for hating sex, which is why Critical Miss never deals with it.

This is, of course, a ridiculous attitude. Sex is the best, most expedient way to show a relationship between two characters when you don't understand how human interaction works. I know that I never would have cared about Agro, from Shadow of the Colossus, if they hadn't included that intimate scene where Wander dry humps his leg.
They didn't say it was the best, most expedient way. They just said it was the quickest method to establish intimacy. And it is.

The point people should be making is that "quickest" often isn't the "best". A game that make you grow to care about the characters in meaningful ways is far more interesting than the quick way. The developer wasn't wrong about the expedience of sex in developing intimacy, but as we know in the real world that's a physical level sort of intimacy and not a deeper caring. A good example would be Ellie from The Last of Us. That relationship was developed through time and hardship. I can't imagine caring more about some character my avatar just boned than Ellie who the avatar never touched.

So please understand, my contention here isn't regarding the value of non-sexual relationships. It's disappointment at completely missing what the developers were saying. Sex is fast, dialogue takes more time. It's true. But the response isn't a red-herring that other relationships can be meaningful too. It should just be a qualitative distinction that sexual relationships are often shallow unless founded in more dynamic relationship background.
That's a fair point. I apologize for being testy. This discussion came up in another thread, and it basically devolved into calling everyone a prude, even if you were only criticizing the writing, and not the sex.

Personally, I think a few lines of well written dialogue is better then a sex scene, even in terms of expediency. Sex can mean many things. It could mean they love each other deeply, or it could mean they're two horny strangers who just met, or anything in the middle. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course, but it isn't the best way to establish character. This is especially true in The Witcher, where every story seems to start with Geralt in bed, even in the books. The problem is that he does this for many different reasons, most of which have nothing to do with love.

The way he phrased it made it sound like the primary/only reason a player would want to save her is because of the sex. That probably wasn't his intention, but it irked a lot of people, myself included. In terms of writing, CD Project pretty decent, but their understanding of sex has always rubbed me the wrong way.

*remembers sex cards from Witcher 1 and shudders.*
 

Lightknight

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Fox12 said:
That's a fair point. I apologize for being testy. This discussion came up in another thread, and it basically devolved into calling everyone a prude, even if you were only criticizing the writing, and not the sex.
I was unaware of the other thread or that it devolved in such a way. I'm sorry you had to deal with that kind of environment where no one was being heard because so few were listening.

Personally, I think a few lines of well written dialogue is better then a sex scene, even in terms of expediency. Sex can mean many things. It could mean they love each other deeply, or it could mean they're two horny strangers who just met, or anything in the middle. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course, but it isn't the best way to establish character.
I fully agree. It is, by definition a physical and ergo shallow motivation.

This is especially true in The Witcher, where every story seems to start with Geralt in bed, even in the books. The problem is that he does this for many different reasons, most of which have nothing to do with love.
I'll take your word for it. I tried to play the Witcher 2 and didn't enjoy it enough to get much further than the past couple of levels. So I haven't picked up 3 despite the accolades since 2 was highly praised as well.

The way he phrased it made it sound like the primary/only reason a player would want to save her is because of the sex. That probably wasn't his intention, but it irked a lot of people, myself included. In terms of writing, CD Project pretty decent, but their understanding of sex has always rubbed me the wrong way.

*remembers sex cards from Witcher 1 and shudders.*
I can understand that. He was trying to say that the player needs a motivation and that sex is hell-a fast and easy to implement. But I can understand if it was read in another manner. It would just be ridiculous to assume that anyone would think that sex is the only actual motivation possibly existent in story mechanics. So I'd hope anyone that took it that way would stop to consider who would even say that before rereading the quote. In this case, he said two things. Sex is a quick motivator to justify pursuit of the character was the first. Then he stated that you can't just tell players to and you can't just tell players to find someone they essentially aren't motivated to find.

If that was read as them saying that the only possible method of motivating players is just sex, then it's a fairly blatant misunderstanding and this article appears to be based on it. So my original post in here was to question the why of it? Was it purposefully misconstrued to tell a joke (which I found funny)? Or were the comments read through tinted glasses reflecting some other motivation. Prudishness, dislike of Gerault's conquests, stuff like that. Questions the writers would know but I wouldn't because I don't know them beyond their excellent work here.

*remembers sex cards from Witcher 1 and shudders.*
As a full grown married man I also generally dislike sex in games. It is generally needless and completely misses me as a target market.

I think Mass Effect did it in a far more meaningful way that didn't make me feel like a dirty little boy. I'd love to see games take a swing at that caliber of relationship if they're going to include it at all. I understand that even porn games have a right to exist but I'd appreciate actual developed relationships in my AAA titles if it's going to happen. But the mass effect example certainly wasn't a "quick and easy" motivator. The dialogue resulted in sex as a natural result of a budding intimate and romantic relationship rather than a fleeting one nighter of some kind.
 

Lightknight

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IceForce said:
You really shouldn't smoke in bed. It's a fire hazard.
Not after the companion cube gets done with it... (that is to say, the bed being moist, thanks to the companion cube's elaborate activities, is no longer a hazard for fire)
 

Popido

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Witcher 2 starts with Triss in the bed, so this is just continuity to that.

Its up to see how the scene plays out in the game. Knowning the series, the third game is going to offer choice for the player to choose to pursue either Yennifer or Triss. And Triss has the advance of being in the series since beginning. People who haven't read the books will have less interest for Yennifer. It is likely they chose to start with sex scene to have Geralt act more, vulnerable. You pursue after her, found her and then you two had sex. After that, she should be off again. Perhaps they want the player to question if they're still in love? Just changing words would probably not be enough or vague enough.

There needs to be a choice. If Yennifer clearly shows that she cares for Geralt, then Triss path is cheating on her. If nothing happens between Yennifer and Geralt, most players will continue to pursue her for an answer. Sex leaves it vague enough for that.

Well, I don't think we know yet to decide if the solution is justified. Nor is it really that big of an deal when the second game already started with Triss in bed.

If you want to compare this to Companion Cubes, imagine that Portal 3(hahahaha) has a point where you have to choose between little burned Companion Cube from Portal 1 and the newer model of Companion Cube from Portal 2. Although, it was implied at the ending to be THE Companion Cube.
 

SNCommand

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Nothing wrong with in game sex, but it does absolutely nothing for me, if I wanted to see it there's an entire medium devoted to it available on the internet

Personally I would say the strongest relationship I've had with characters in the game was that of Joel and Ellie in Last of Us, they felt like real people, I wanted them to be real people, their relationship felt genuine, and it made it easier for me as the player to form a relationship to them
 

The Wooster

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I think we're missing the important question here.

After the 16 hours of sex do we still get a trading card?
 

tzimize

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TopazFusion said:
It's funny because in the first Witcher game, the player could fuck random women left and right, and it never became "a justification for the player to pursue the woman".

It was literally wham-bam-thankyou-ma'am, and you never saw them again.
Which I enjoyed immensely. Never have women felt so much like conquests. The cards were just the icing on the cake. I do however appreciate the more serious tone of W2. And I have to repeat my opinion that The start of W2 when Geralt wakes up in bed with Triss is one of the best scenes in a game I have EVER seen.

The woman is treated like the sexual and beautiful creature she is. She is not a slut or a prostitute, she is of equal standing with Geralt. A partner. It is also very sensually made.

The scene in the elven baths in W2 was also very nice. And its so thrilling to see this medium be used to portrait adult relationships.

If there is more like this in W3 I welcome it, and if there are some optional conquests to be made, thats fine as well. My Geralt is kind of a slut. Sometimes you just have to scratch that itch, and its not like he has any bastards to worry about being sterile and all.

SNCommand said:
Nothing wrong with in game sex, but it does absolutely nothing for me, if I wanted to see it there's an entire medium devoted to it available on the internet

Personally I would say the strongest relationship I've had with characters in the game was that of Joel and Ellie in Last of Us, they felt like real people, I wanted them to be real people, their relationship felt genuine, and it made it easier for me as the player to form a relationship to them
I think one of the strongest relationships I've had with a game character is Tali. Her voice acting was SUPERB, and her grief when she found her father dead stayed with me long afterwards.

Other than that there is a fantastic romantic sideplot in a very old and rather obscure Blue Byte game called Albion (one of my all time favorite games). Two of the NPCs fall in love, one is dumb, the other is a....er...cat-alien suspiciously similar to the Avatar cat people (only not blue). The sideplot is completely beyond the players control and it is both subtle and beautifully written. No kinky scenes though.

Romance and sex would be welcome in more games as long as the developers treat their audience as something more than a horny 14 year old :|
 

Piorn

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I won't bother with women in the Witcher ever again!
In 1 they were nothing but trouble, that witch in that village, and all the other were either of no consequence or more trouble than they're worth.
I rescued that useless hack Triss in 2, and look what it brought me in the end, dragon got away.
Actually I won't trust anyone ever again, that Prince guy seemed cool enough and then bam, he's crowned himself king just because I demanded a fair trial.
Can't trust anyone but yourself.

Also, not a fan of sex in AAA games. I either want to play or spank it, and sex scenes in games are never suited for that. In fact they're suited for neither. It's ALWAYS just a 1min cutscene, maybe with quicktime events, but nothing that would qualify it as either porn or a game.
 

CaitSeith

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The Wooster said:
A lot of sites have been eronously reporting that The Witcher 3 will feature sixteen hours of virtual rumpy pumpy. Sadly, this is not true.
I almost sense that a tear was shed when the word "sadly" was being typed.
 

CaitSeith

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Lightknight said:
I'm not sure that caring about the companion cube was natural to the game rather than something we as a culture provided later.
Well, the in-game developers' commentaries mentioned the cube attachment from the game-testers. It wasn't natural, but the result of level design intended to encourage the attachment.
 

Scorpid

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Haru17 said:
No amount of quotes with dubious gender politics will make the fucking companion cube even a half way decent character. Take the Valve fanboyism and go home.
Uhhh relax. Its not a character. Its quite obviously a object that was used as a joke.
 

Abomination

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mad825 said:
Abomination said:
Geralt's a womanizer, Witchers are known to be sterile, he's got a body of marble, he loves Yennefer and has not seen her in a very long time. People have sex, they frequently do not need a very elaborate reason beyond just wanting to.

This is the "fastest" way to establish the relationship between Geralt and Yennefer without needing the player to go through Witcher 1 & 2 again.
lul wut?

Geralt has or had amnesia, it's really hard to have any devotion to a woman he cannot remember. In WT2, we see Geralt becoming more restraint as he loves Triss however towards the end of the game Geralt regains his memory and thus the relationship between triss is much more complicated especially when it appears that the sorcerers lodge is using Geralt to their own ends (TW1- triss and Eilhart cutscene hint hint).

In chapter 1 in TW2. You're given a choice to give your opinion on the Triss-Yennefer love triangle, you can say that you'll stay devoted to triss or things are "unsure". As such, casual flings are now a rarity.
had amnesia
Geralt regains his memory
This is a love TRIANGLE in almost every sense of the word. Geralt loves Triss AND Yennefer - and he bangs them both.

Witchers are aberrations, they do not function in society like others and neither so sorcerers. I believe they're not allowed to take lands or title and Witchers can't reproduct so the concept of marriage - and in turn monogamy - is pointless to them.

If you haven't seen the love of your life in years and you're already a very sexual person you're gonna want their and your clothes off as fast as possible. Lazy writing? More like logical writing.
 

The Wooster

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Lightknight said:
Seeing as I just figured out that you are an author, perhaps you could shed some light on this. Is sex in games bad? Is a motivation that is very real in real life somehow bad to portray or not an extremely rapid method of motivation for a lot of people as to why they're going to pursue someone? I'd be very interested in your honest opinion. We can even take it to PM if you'd prefer. I'd be fascinated to have such a discussion with someone whose views differ so much from my own. I could learn a lot about your perspective if you have the time.
There's a blurb beneath the comic that answers all of these questions.
 

Lightknight

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The Wooster said:
Lightknight said:
Seeing as I just figured out that you are an author, perhaps you could shed some light on this. Is sex in games bad? Is a motivation that is very real in real life somehow bad to portray or not an extremely rapid method of motivation for a lot of people as to why they're going to pursue someone? I'd be very interested in your honest opinion. We can even take it to PM if you'd prefer. I'd be fascinated to have such a discussion with someone whose views differ so much from my own. I could learn a lot about your perspective if you have the time.
There's a blurb beneath the comic that answers all of these questions.
Ah, excellent blurb.

If your disagreement is just qualitative, that dialogue is a more rewarding method for building relationships and making the player care about the characters, then that's completely in line with what I believe. I understand if you just misconstrued what they said as being the "only motivation" for the point of the comic even if they clearly weren't saying that. I assume you are aware that's not what they were saying and instead wanted to use it to discuss a topic I really agree with. That while sex is an easy motivation, it is a shallow one. I'd posit that to be true both in works of fiction and in real life.

I absolutely love your work, thank you for taking the time to respond.
 

Schadrach

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TopazFusion said:
It's funny because in the first Witcher game, the player could fuck random women left and right, and it never became "a justification for the player to pursue the woman".

It was literally wham-bam-thankyou-ma'am, and you never saw them again.
The thing I think everyone keeps missing (or trying to ignore) is that the woman in question (Yennefer de Vergerberg, introduced in "The Last Wish", I believe?) was introduced in the books. She and Geralt have something of a lengthy history. I imagine from their perspective it's a succinct way to show that they're involved without having to include a lot of exposition that will be entirely redundant to fans of the books while still getting the gist across to people who aren't familiar with the books.

I can't wait for the gender complaining folks to turn an eye to Ciri (the female witcher character). You know why she was trained as a witcher? Because she was promised to Geralt in "A Question of Price." She's also inherently not as capable a fighter as a "real" witcher because while she was put through the training she wasn't put through the special diet or the trial of the grasses (because they both weren't sure what it would do to her [given that the effects include hormonal manipulation and they'd literally never done it to a woman before], and being technically the rightful heir of the royal line of Cintra would mean that the sterility that results would be less than ideal).
 

The Wooster

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Macsen Wledig said:
I hate sex in video games, not because I'm a prude but because it's always so awkward and unrealistic. I feel it's only been slapped in to appease teenage boys who haven't worked out how to use the internet yet. It's always a case of just following a particular dialogue tree and then all of a sudden character #253421 will now fall madly in love with you. Congratulations! achievement "No longer a virgin" unlocked. Um, okay...
You do realize that is the reason why they are using Mo Cap for it this time?
To make it less awkward?

Also, blame Sapkowski. He wrote the books. The man liked putting these things in them, albeit it fairly tastefully (which is how the games do it mostly as well).

undeadsuitor said:
I think we're missing the important question here.

After the 16 hours of sex do we still get a trading card?
You did not in Witcher 2.
Why would you in Witcher 3?