These are the rules that the actual pros play MW2 by

Conqueror Kenny

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Sir John The Net Knight said:
Do you know who cares about the opinions of professional gamers? Professional Gamers. Seriously, I don't why anyone else would give a crap what such a small group of elitists thinks about anything. In almost every respect, they constrict the rules of their chosen game so much that it ceases to be fun for anyone else. Most of us would never encounter a professional gamer, anyway. So why would anyone be hung up on what they think?
While this may be true for most communities but it's not even close to being true when it comes to fighting games (not SSB I don't even have a clue what is going on in that game) the top players revolutionise the games on so many levels. Who do you think discovers all these combos, tactics, mixups and setups that seem like they have been around since the start of the game?
I'm going to use Street Fighter IV here as an example as it's been around for just the right ammount of time. If you spend a few days playing and learning the game now in 2010 if there was a way to go back and play the best players in the world you with you perhaps 2 weeks of experience could give them a run for their money simply because of how the top players make the game progress. Day 1 Street Fighter IV may as well be a completely different game to Street Fighter IV now.
 

CommyGingerbreadMan

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Conqueror Kenny said:
Sir John The Net Knight said:
Do you know who cares about the opinions of professional gamers? Professional Gamers. Seriously, I don't why anyone else would give a crap what such a small group of elitists thinks about anything. In almost every respect, they constrict the rules of their chosen game so much that it ceases to be fun for anyone else. Most of us would never encounter a professional gamer, anyway. So why would anyone be hung up on what they think?
While this may be true for most communities but it's not even close to being true when it comes to fighting games (not SSB I don't even have a clue what is going on in that game) the top players revolutionise the games on so many levels. Who do you think discovers all these combos, tactics, mixups and setups that seem like they have been around since the start of the game?
I'm going to use Street Fighter IV here as an example as it's been around for just the right ammount of time. If you spend a few days playing and learning the game now in 2010 if there was a way to go back and play the best players in the world you with you perhaps 2 weeks of experience could give them a run for their money simply because of how the top players make the game progress. Day 1 Street Fighter IV may as well be a completely different game to Street Fighter IV now.
Sadly no, it is not top tournament players that find these combos and what not. Are you really suggesting people that stick to only certain rules and engagements are going to try new things? Experiment? Hell no! These are the same people that play casually the EXACT SAME way they play tournament. These combos are all mainly found by people just having fun and messing around and what-not.

Do not give credit where it is surely not due.
 

Conqueror Kenny

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CommyGingerbreadMan said:
Sadly no, it is not top tournament players that find these combos and what not. Are you really suggesting people that stick to only certain rules and engagements are going to try new things? Experiment? Hell no! These are the same people that play casually the EXACT SAME way they play tournament. These combos are all mainly found by people just having fun and messing around and what-not.

Do not give credit where it is surely not due.
You're talking about something you know nothing about. As far as SSBB goes yeah there's all sorts of crazy dumb rules, but for Tekken the only rules are best 3 out of 5 rounds and the only rules of Street Fighter (other than Super Turbo where Akuma was broken and widely banned) is that you play best 2 of 3 rounds and 2 of 3 sets.

I don't have a clue what happens in the Smash Bros. world but Tekken and Street Fighter it is mostly the top players innovating to try to get a step ahead of the rest.
 

Steppin Razor

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I find it hard to think of those people as MW2 "Pro's" when they neuter the game to remove everything that makes it different to other games. If they were truly serious about balance they would make every player in the tournament use the exact same class loadout and have the players stand on opposite sides of a field. That way it'd be all about a player's accuracy and dodging ability without the unfair element of being able to take cover.

Modern Warfare 2 is supposed to simulate, you know, modern warfare. Obivously they've added some things to spice it up a little, such as Deathstreaks and some of the perks, but essentially it's modern weaponry in a modern setting. Removing Claymores, C4, Shotguns, Grenade Launchers and all forms of air support makes it decidedly less than modern. Those people aren't playing Modern Warfare 2, they're playing Counterstrike in high definition. Minus the shotguns. In fact, I don't even know why they're bothering to play MW2 at all. Competing to be the best at a game is beyond pointless if all you're really doing is playing the HD bastard offspring of CS.
 

WaywardHaymaker

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I hate professional gaming. And professional sports. It takes all the fun out of the games.

Do this, do that, you can't do this, don't use that, that's illegal, that's a penalty.

Games are supposed to be fun.
 

CommyGingerbreadMan

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Conqueror Kenny said:
CommyGingerbreadMan said:
Sadly no, it is not top tournament players that find these combos and what not. Are you really suggesting people that stick to only certain rules and engagements are going to try new things? Experiment? Hell no! These are the same people that play casually the EXACT SAME way they play tournament. These combos are all mainly found by people just having fun and messing around and what-not.

Do not give credit where it is surely not due.
You're talking about something you know nothing about. As far as SSBB goes yeah there's all sorts of crazy dumb rules, but for Tekken the only rules are best 3 out of 5 rounds and the only rules of Street Fighter (other than Super Turbo where Akuma was broken and widely banned) is that you play best 2 of 3 rounds and 2 of 3 sets.

I don't have a clue what happens in the Smash Bros. world but Tekken and Street Fighter it is mostly the top players innovating to try to get a step ahead of the rest.
Love how you know nothing about me, yet assume I have no clue.

Ah, won't go to far into that. Let's just say from experience I have yet to see anyone who calls themselves pro gamer to do anything astounding and risky to get ahead. Therefor you must mean people who participate in tournaments. Not everyone who does considers themselves pro, because there is always someone better and always someone who will improve upon your own tactics. Yet TBH there probably is little difference besides ego levels.

On a small level, there was a guy at my school who came to one videogame tournament held by the club. SSBM of course. He used DK, was severely awesome. Showed everyone how o use him properly. After he won, people that chose DK acted like him copying his style. He was a gamer, he would use other characters, he was just awesome at DK and fiddled with him. Things like that start small. Someone noticed someone else do something weird, applied it to the right situation and showed how well it worked. "pro gamers" then apply this to their game, knowing it already works.

However I can be wrong, but the tournaments I participate in, I don't see anything new until some brave soul tries it. 9/10 he is booed. 4/10 he wins. If it something insane, I look it up on Youtube to find out it was used somewhere else. But everytime I have seen it it's from one of those guys who either don't care about the rules and are plain morons or that one weird kid. . .
 

BeeRye

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The point of restrictive rules like these is not to strip the fun from the game, just an attempt to balance it so that it plays out more evenly in a competitive format. Lots of the CoD perks are ridiculously imbalanced and going on what I've played at a friend's this seems to be more the case in MW2 than even in CoD4.

If you think about it, these rules don't actually take the fun out of the game. The people who will these rulesets in leagues and ladders are there to play competetive team games, and the majority of the fun in doing so is working well as a team to win games. So long as these rules remain confined to such matches they won't impinge on the fun of those who don't like them at all, as they won't have to play under them.
 

TerranReaper

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Alpha1089 said:
Modern Warfare 2 is supposed to simulate, you know, modern warfare. Obivously they've added some things to spice it up a little, such as Deathstreaks and some of the perks, but essentially it's modern weaponry in a modern setting. Removing Claymores, C4, Shotguns, Grenade Launchers and all forms of air support makes it decidedly less than modern. Those people aren't playing Modern Warfare 2, they're playing Counterstrike in high definition. Minus the shotguns. In fact, I don't even know why they're bothering to play MW2 at all. Competing to be the best at a game is beyond pointless if all you're really doing is playing the HD bastard offspring of CS.
I feel like a troll/ass, but really, MW2 simulating actual modern warfare? I don't think I've ever heard of soldiers running around knifing and dual wielding 100+ year old shotguns and knifing anywhere at a person's body will result in a death. (Although I'm guilty of this =P)

OT: I'm kinda on the OP's side, although I think it should be balanced AND fun at the same time (Crazy right?).

Edit: Both sides do like to hate and generalize on each other. =\
 

Steppin Razor

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TerranReaper said:
I feel like a troll/ass, but really, MW2 simulating actual modern warfare? I don't think I've ever heard of soldiers running around knifing and dual wielding 100+ year old shotguns and knifing anywhere at a person's body will result in a death. (Although I'm guilty of this =P)

OT: I'm kinda on the OP's side, although I think it should be balanced AND fun at the same time (Crazy right?).

Edit: Both sides do like to hate and generalize on each other. =\
I didn't mean it like a fully realistic simulation, I meant that it was set in modern times with modern weaponry with a decent amount of realism. Hmmm, definitely wrong choice of words before. I can understand some players wanting to play like that in games, and I'm sure I'd have fun if i played it that way every now and than, but I have a problem with the fact that tournaments run off a rule set like that. The best team should be the one best able to adapt to all of the possible equipment loadouts, not the team that can win with every feature disabled.
 

Conqueror Kenny

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CommyGingerbreadMan said:
Conqueror Kenny said:
CommyGingerbreadMan said:
Sadly no, it is not top tournament players that find these combos and what not. Are you really suggesting people that stick to only certain rules and engagements are going to try new things? Experiment? Hell no! These are the same people that play casually the EXACT SAME way they play tournament. These combos are all mainly found by people just having fun and messing around and what-not.

Do not give credit where it is surely not due.
You're talking about something you know nothing about. As far as SSBB goes yeah there's all sorts of crazy dumb rules, but for Tekken the only rules are best 3 out of 5 rounds and the only rules of Street Fighter (other than Super Turbo where Akuma was broken and widely banned) is that you play best 2 of 3 rounds and 2 of 3 sets.

I don't have a clue what happens in the Smash Bros. world but Tekken and Street Fighter it is mostly the top players innovating to try to get a step ahead of the rest.
Love how you know nothing about me, yet assume I have no clue.

Ah, won't go to far into that. Let's just say from experience I have yet to see anyone who calls themselves pro gamer to do anything astounding and risky to get ahead. Therefor you must mean people who participate in tournaments. Not everyone who does considers themselves pro, because there is always someone better and always someone who will improve upon your own tactics. Yet TBH there probably is little difference besides ego levels.

On a small level, there was a guy at my school who came to one videogame tournament held by the club. SSBM of course. He used DK, was severely awesome. Showed everyone how o use him properly. After he won, people that chose DK acted like him copying his style. He was a gamer, he would use other characters, he was just awesome at DK and fiddled with him. Things like that start small. Someone noticed someone else do something weird, applied it to the right situation and showed how well it worked. "pro gamers" then apply this to their game, knowing it already works.

However I can be wrong, but the tournaments I participate in, I don't see anything new until some brave soul tries it. 9/10 he is booed. 4/10 he wins. If it something insane, I look it up on Youtube to find out it was used somewhere else. But everytime I have seen it it's from one of those guys who either don't care about the rules and are plain morons or that one weird kid. . .
The fact is as far as fighting games go and I'm going to say it for the third time, not Smash Bros. The community in that game is completely separate from other fighting games, because of the crazy rules. Playing and winning in tournaments is as high a level you can go in these games so that would make you a "pro".
For a quick example, this website sonichurricane [http://sonichurricane.com/] was created by a top Street Fighter player to demonstrate the things he learns by playing with the engine in the games, and showing off some of the advanced mind games played by othe top players. Not the mind game demonstrated by the casual Xbox Live/PSN player or "that one weird kid"
 

bcponpcp27

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No secondary launchers....at all? Stingers should be allowed at least, otherwise killstreaks ARE overpowered...
 

CommyGingerbreadMan

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@kenny (breaking the quote train for easyreadiness)

I said earlier that having to take things out to be called "pro" is like taking all the pages out of a something and still calling it a book. It may look like one and feel like one, but inside it's useless
 

Dogstile

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Perks:
No Bling < What the hell? So no red dot and shotgun underbarrel? no acog and heartbeat? i don't see why that isn't allowed, it adds alot of customisation.

No One Man Army< i can see why, that is pretty much an infinite ammo cheat

Equipment:
No grenade launchers< So they can camp
No claymores< So snipers can't cover their ass's
No C4< Because traps are obviously unfair
No secondary launchers< Because they don't like it when someone can actually aim one of those
No blast shields< So people die easier
No tactical insertions < So they don't have to look for them
No riot shields < Takes more than 2 seconds to kill? Changes my playstyle a little? KILL IT WITH FIRE!
No secondary shotguns < Because after all, its not my fault i walked straight into a shotguns range

Rules:
No killstreaks < We shouldn't reward people for playing well
Deathstreaks must be set to copycat in most PC leagues < We can't give people a chance to get back into the groove now can we?

Seriously, it just seems like they took out all the fun stuff
 

Flames66

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This is what ruins big title games for me. I will not buy MW2 because of stuff like this. I love riot shields in games and also personally would love to have a machine gun with a secondary shotgun in a game. If you play a game that seriously then it is not game game anymore and you should not refer to your self as a gamer.
 

sueyed

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Modern Warfare 2 is the most important release of the decade. It's the perfect cheap skate attraction, keeping all the assholes that love double shotgun-ing their way to an AC-130 carepackage without moving from a 3x3 area away from games that aren't horrible.

Because let's face it, those types are the only ones still actively playing MW2.

I swear, douchebaggery dropped 50-60% in all multi-player games on MW2's release date, and for that, I love it.
 

phalanx1234

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dogstile said:
Perks:
No Bling < What the hell? So no red dot and shotgun underbarrel? no acog and heartbeat? i don't see why that isn't allowed, it adds alot of customisation. not sure why, I don't play MW2

No One Man Army< i can see why, that is pretty much an infinite ammo cheat

Equipment:
No grenade launchers< So they can camp The defending team is meant to defend by generally staying around their base. The attacking team has a time limit so they need to move.
No claymores< So snipers can't cover their ass'sThat's why you have team mates and good communication
No C4< Because traps are obviously unfair Take's no skill, as you only need to click when they are in a big vicinity of the area.
No secondary launchers< Because they don't like it when someone can actually aim one of those You don't aim a launcher, that's the problem.
No blast shields< So people die easier Don't be in a position where you can easily take damage from a blast (out in the open) also all launchers are disabled so pretty much useless.
No tactical insertions < So they don't have to look for them You don't re-spawn in Search and Destroy. In Head Quarters it takes no skill at all to throw/use a tactical insertion next to the capture point and keep re spawning there.
No riot shields < Takes more than 2 seconds to kill? Changes my playstyle a little? KILL IT WITH FIRE!Learn to use cover and not be out in the open
No secondary shotguns < Because after all, its not my fault i walked straight into a shotguns rangeOnce again its point and shoot, no skill required due to its bullet dispersal.

Rules:
No killstreaks < We shouldn't reward people for playing well In Search and Destroy, you want to see who is the best over 24 rounds. Each round is refreshed to give an equal opportunity and a fresh start to each round. Imagine in a game such as Heroes of Newerth if you won the previous game you got to keep all the items you bought or you got to keep your level? The game would die instantly.
Deathstreaks must be set to copycat in most PC leagues < We can't give people a chance to get back into the groove now can we? See above. Getting back into the grove is giving them a fresh start with each round restart hence no kill streaks.

Seriously, it just seems like they took out all the fun stuff
Remember most competitions are played on either Search and Destroy (mainly) and Headquarters.

I don't play Modern Warfare 2 as I believe Infinity Ward/Activision have F**ked over the PC community, especially the competitive community. So I haven't used perks like bling and riot shields, so what I have written is my belief why they have been banned after reading what they do on http://www.themodernwarfare2.com

As said before, the competitive side of gaming is to let you have fun with mates, to practice communication, to improve your skills, and finally to build relationships.

One of the guys at my school was in a different clan to me and we weren't the best of mates. The clan I was running was doing fine (community wise and ladderwise) so I decided to take temporary leave from my clan to join their clan as the lowest rank members because the guy from my school asked for my help.

I taught them all the things that me and my clan discussed for weeks. I organised friendly scrims between the two clans weekly. After around 2 months, the clan was on par with my clan, we knew each others tactics, we knew all the team members, we all had some for of contact with other members of the clan (Email, FB, myspace, MSN etc).

During that time, me and the guy became best friends and pretty much acted like we have been best of friends for years.

For those of you who care, the clans would have merged if it wasn't for the clan structures. My clan had a flat structure, everyone had the same administrative rights except for me and one other who had the final word, and their clan had ranks.
 

Dogstile

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I'll just say it this way, They brought a game and said you can't use half of what's in there, and called it "pro". If they want to play a game that way, they can play counter strike.