They are trying to cancel Dave Chappell

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Mister Mumbler

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Well like I said, you're free to do what you want, I'm not telling you to stop, it's not like I'm any better when I'm technically talking about that right now, so feel free to carry on for as long as you want just saying to not expect much from this @Dwarvenhobble doesn't engage in these conversations in good faith as far as my experiences go.
No, it's quite alright. Like Obsidian's post, it's just nice to read other thoughts and opinions (especially yours; you don't post much but I love the candid demeanor of your posts). Besides, I don't really mind if people don't argue in good faith (I have a decent eye of spotting it anyway) because I will always try to argue in good faith. It's good thing to do in general, and my dog really is my spirit animal, and so I'm using him as my model for debate. Basically, just a quiet, steady resistance as I argue my points; there is a 50 post tangent in the movie thread as testament to that (my dog is adorable; when he wants attention, he won't whine or anything but he will come over and just keep on nudging you and your hand and attempt to climb in your lap. Love that rascal). Besides, I feel we are now entering the "wheels stuck in the mud", "nuh-uh. Yeah-huh" phase of the debate so I'm probably not sticking around too much longer. I feel like I made my points rather well (for once, surprisingly).
 

Mister Mumbler

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I've also just realized that this thread has been limping on now as pretty much a debate between people who are fans of Chappelle besides a few other stragglers. This situation keeps getting funnier.
 

Mister Mumbler

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Man, I just want Chappelle to make jokes again
Yeah. Between this one (which, while I (think I) understand the idea behind it, just isn't that great) and 8:46 (which I love, but is more heavy than funny), I just miss Sticks and Stones more. Now that was a great special (in my opinion).
 

Kae

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Lose 1d20 sanity points.
No, it's quite alright. Like Obsidian's post, it's just nice to read other thoughts and opinions (especially yours; you don't post much but I love the candid demeanor of your posts). Besides, I don't really mind if people don't argue in good faith (I have a decent eye of spotting it anyway) because I will always try to argue in good faith. It's good thing to do in general, and my dog really is my spirit animal, and so I'm using him as my model for debate. Basically, just a quiet, steady resistance as I argue my points; there is a 50 post tangent in the movie thread as testament to that (my dog is adorable; when he wants attention, he won't whine or anything but he will come over and just keep on nudging you and your hand and attempt to climb in your lap. Love that rascal). Besides, I feel we are now entering the "wheels stuck in the mud", "nuh-uh. Yeah-huh" phase of the debate so I'm probably not sticking around too much longer. I feel like I made my points rather well (for once, surprisingly).
Yeah, your dog looks like a good dog and is cute, there's no argument there, not much I can say there but you can have this picture of my dog that my brother sent me.
imagen_2021-10-23_034345.png

As for Chappelle himself, well I actually enjoy his work, I'm not sure I'd say I'm a fan because I don't follow his work but I've enjoyed most of what I've seen as for this special in particular, it was bad, it's simply not funny and most of it is very tone deaf and like he's being edgy just for the sake of being edgy, I don't think it's offensive just short-sighted because some of the grievances he raises between the dynamics between white queer people and black people are very real and very legitimate, however he basically acts like the entire queer community is white and completely ignores how those same dynamics get even worse when black queer people are involved.

Overall it's just extremely disappointing because it sounds like he's so close to understanding the core of the issues he's talking about and yet still completely fails and ends up siding with right wing extremists without really understanding that.
 

Trunkage

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Which point the ideology of the Suicide Squad? Because I hate to tell you this it's been a thing in history before now. Also need I remind you half the issues The Suicide Squad have to deal with are cause by The Suicide Squad one way or another or some of Waller's other projects.
What they look like. Their version of what male and female should be. How they should dress. Appropriate ways of speech. Appropriate ways of interacting with others. Their version of patriotism and loyalty. I.e. It's all Political Correctness

And other didn't find it that way so they get the power to decide it should be changed right?
You know that every remake has difference from the original. Otherwise its utterly pointless. I usually judge it based on artist merit, not that I don't like LBGT people or their boobs aren't big enough. I didnt get offended when Picard took over from Kirk when those are vastly different. I didnt get offended at She-Ra automatically. Mainly because I just dont listen to talking heads telling me to hate something and decided myself

Except I stepped into the Welsh nationalist bar. That would be my choice and assuming I did it willingly and knowingly is not most if not all he responsibility for me being offended on me? Hell even if I did it unknowingly it was my issue for not being well informed is my point.
From people calling you a child murderers? For no reason? No. That's not your responsibility

Also its more authoritarian to be against the joke than being the one telling them, he's not forcing people to endure them.
No. Listening to his speech ISNT THE PROBLEM. After you're huge rant about CNN and their potential effects of society and then you pretend you cant understand this?

They can be offended. The issue is it's up to them to make a good argument for their position to convince people not try to shame or attack people into falling in line.
This is legitimately baffling you say this after you claimed this: ' That would be my choice and assuming I did it willingly and knowingly is not most if not all he responsibility for me being offended on me?' In other words, its not our responsibility if you feel shame or feel attacked. Making you complaint worthless

Either shaming or attacking is not the speakers responsibility. Or it is. You cant flip flop.
 
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Mister Mumbler

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As for Chappelle himself, well I actually enjoy his work, I'm not sure I'd say I'm a fan because I don't follow his work but I've enjoyed most of what I've seen as for this special in particular, it was bad, it's simply not funny and most of it is very tone deaf and like he's being edgy just for the sake of being edgy, I don't think it's offensive just short-sighted because some of the grievances he raises between the dynamics between white queer people and black people are very real and very legitimate, however he basically acts like the entire queer community is white and completely ignores how those same dynamics get even worse when black queer people are involved.

Overall it's just extremely disappointing because it sounds like he's so close to understanding the core of the issues he's talking about and yet still completely fails and ends up siding with right wing extremists without really understanding that.
Yeah, all good points. I want to say all the right-wing stuff is just as an easy out like "well, a black guy said it so it's alright" type deal but I just don't know.
EDIT: I feel this deserves a better response, but I am tired-posting now, sorry. I shall return to this when my brain works again.
this picture of my dog that my brother sent me.
View attachment 4749
D'aw, now that is a good dog. I want to give them all the head scratches (boxers are such goofy dogs, you are lucky). Thanks for showing.

You know what, as one of the closest people to the resident shit-poster (the other being @Drathnoxis) still here, fuck it:

Mods are asleep, post pictures of your pets;
20201115_155006.jpg
 
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Drathnoxis

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You know what, as one of the closest people to the resident shit-poster (the other being @Drathnoxis) still here, fuck it:
Sir, I assure you I only make the highest quality posts, always with the utmost sincerity and adhesion to topic. You shall be hearing from my solicitors shortly in regard to these libelous remarks!

Mods are asleep, post pictures of your pets;
Well, if you insist.

SAM_0752.JPG
 

Dwarvenhobble

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What they look like. Their version of what male and female should be. How they should dress. Appropriate ways of speech. Appropriate ways of interacting with others. Their version of patriotism and loyalty. I.e. It's all Political Correctness
1) They're villains
2) *points to some incarnations of Waller herself*
3) *Points to Cluebra*
4) Half the point is they aren't patriots and often try to set up escape or other stuff going on. They're doing it to get out a prison not for Uncle sam for the most part.

You know that every remake has difference from the original. Otherwise its utterly pointless. I usually judge it based on artist merit, not that I don't like LBGT people or their boobs aren't big enough. I didnt get offended when Picard took over from Kirk when those are vastly different. I didnt get offended at She-Ra automatically. Mainly because I just dont listen to talking heads telling me to hate something and decided myself
And you're presenting the idea those offended somehow should get the power to decide even if they are in no way ever the audience for such stuff, that's part of the issue.

From people calling you a child murderers? For no reason? No. That's not your responsibility
Except again I chose to go in there, it's my fault if I get offended is it not? I could choose to not go in there. I don't have the right to never be offended and I can't and shouldn't expect nothing in the world to be offensive ever. I just don't have to know or care about being offended that some-one somewhere I don't know and don't have to see is being offensive.

No. Listening to his speech ISNT THE PROBLEM. After you're huge rant about CNN and their potential effects of society and then you pretend you cant understand this?
Comedians Jokes = far less of an impact than national news sources. This was similar to the info found in the 1980s by Dr Guy Cumberbatch and his research.

This is legitimately baffling you say this after you claimed this: ' That would be my choice and assuming I did it willingly and knowingly is not most if not all he responsibility for me being offended on me?' In other words, its not our responsibility if you feel shame or feel attacked. Making you complaint worthless

Either shaming or attacking is not the speakers responsibility. Or it is. You cant flip flop.
It does become your responsibility when you're offended to the degree you want others to also side with you and give up the thing too or make changes too.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Jokes aren't directly harmful, however they help make ideas acceptable through a phenomenon called cultural hegemony and the intention isn't to stop the jokes altogether it's simply to point out what they mean and what ideas they are communicating and as such trying to normalize so that people can avoid adopting those harmful ideas and yes that sometimes means reducing the commercial value of those ideas when we live in a world where absolutely everything is commodified

But you automatically escalate the situation to the most absurd notion of thinking the joke is bad, to the point that what you're arguing against is a scenario so extreme it really only reflects the reality of an absolutely miniscule amount of people, but anyways there's no point in carrying on with this conversation as I seriously doubt you have any intention of self-reflecting and actually trying to engage in an actual discussion, I mean the ideas that are the subject of the thread aren't even being discussed, just if they have the right to exist or not which doesn't make sense, because regardless of what your opinion is of those ideas they will still exist and as such that conversation has absolutely no weight or value to reality at all, it's basically pure wankery.
Except that equating jokes to harm IS was was being done by people online. It's no some fake thing. At least one posted the full list of supposed Trans people murdered on twitter as to why they objected to Chappelle's special. It's the minuscule amount of people who are the most offended her and are pushing for changes and actions and playing the PR war game so far.

The whole "You're focussing in a miniscule ammount". Yes they're the people who kicked this controversy off. They're the ones who continue to keep trying to fuel it and push it again and again. They're the ones who keep pulling on emotional cords to try and get others to join them without looking into things more just on feel good happy clappy grounds thinking they're doing go. This whole thing would likely have never blown up if not for said miniscule number acting the way they have done. So would you rather me focus on them, or keep pointing out how easily people were manipulated into following their lead and now are trying to walk it back to save face while being called out to an extent?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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And how are they walking it back while being called out on it?
People who were seemingly all in supporting the push against Chappelle now trying to frame things as criticism or "Why are you focussing on the fringe people ignore the fact they're the reason this whole this started as a controversy". Or almost gaslight and pretend said stuff didn't happen.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Boycotts are specifically a punitive action, usually with a conditional end. Not buying something because you don't like it is not a boycott. Why's boycotting Chapelle's special fine but boycotting Netflix over Chapelle's special "cancelling"?
I didn't say boycotting Netflix over Chappelle's special is cancelling. You can not partake in anything for literally any reason. Trying to get the special removed is cancelling.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yes, but harm who? First off, asking for something to be removed is still valid criticism; if you feel something is nothing pure trash, why shouldn't you ask them to remove it? Is Steam 'canceling' developers when they remove trash shovelware and other garbage from the storefront (...well, sometimes they do, maybe)? But again, harm who, exactly? Dave? He is a successful comedian, has millions of dollars, and also had a contract (which he already fulfilled, hence the title), on top of the fact that he wouldn't give a single shit as he was gone for over a decade before. His fans (of which I am one)? His other specials would still be there (on top of his older specials), and even if (and this would have never at been a possibility, see below) they completely removed him from Netflix they would still show up, both on Youtube and as torrents. But, that was never going to happen, simply because as a streaming service, it is in their best interest to keep anything they produce exclusively on the streaming service. However, there has been two exceptions I have seen with Netflix, one was Stranger Things. The other? Chappelle's specials. All of them. One as a CD (Sticks and Stones), the rest as vinyl LPs, including 8:46. Dave was never going anywhere. But since you think that 'canceling' and shutting down people from talking will lead to harm, I'm sure then that you are just as pissed of as I am at those two cunts who, to show how not offensive Dave Chappelle is, crashed the Netflix protest. The funniest part? They don't even want to remove his special. That's right, the people most (EDIT: directly, my bad) affected by this, and the most they want to do to it? A content warning at the beginning. And if we expand the scope out to Dave in general, the only other point they had against him is they wanted the company to not have his face and name plastered everywhere.
You don't remove things because they're trash, you remove things that people don't want. Some straight to video trash Nicholas Cage movie has an audience, some trash movie that no one wants to see, you remove. Why is some trash Hollywood movie on thousands of movie theater screens while the best picture winner is not even on a hundred screens? Quality is subjective, audience/money is objective.

Removing the special from Netflix would harm trans people? What do you think would happen if you remove a special by the most popular comedian that a certain group pushed to get removed that the vast majority of people want to see? You think public interactions with trans people would stay the same or get better? Hell fucking no. And trans people did call for the removal of the special from Netflix. Just because the Netflix protesters didn't, doesn't mean it didn't happen. And no, being able to still torrent something doesn't mean it's "available". You think an app that gets removed from say the PlayStore on android will be as downloaded as it was on the PlayStore? Again, hell fucking no.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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So in others words, this thread became even more bullshit and a colossal waste of everyone's time? Thank you. Thread is over and dead as far as I'm concerned.

You win!
Not everything you read on the internet is true. You should do your own research instead of continuing to stay ignorant. But I guess you won't since CNN told you "do your own research" is bad.
 
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