Thoughts on Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse

[totheendofsin]

So I'm not seeing much discussion of this game, and now that the apocalypse difficulty setting has been released I feel now is as much a time as any to start up a thread on it.

I'm enjoying it quite abit, I'm about 30 hours in and

Spoiler

I just finished the quest where you go to Mikado to find out what the angels are planning

Gameplay wise it's probably the best in the series. the press turn battle system is still the best turn based battle system ever made, and the various tweaks and rebalances in addition to the addition of skill affinities just makes it much better imo. That being said it's also the easiest in the series, I actually bumped it up to War because I feel it's too easy, and may bump it up to apocalypse now that I can.

Storywise I'm a bit torn, I'm enjoying it, but tonewise it feels alot more like a Persona game that a SMT game, and I hope that's not an indicator of the direction they're taking the series

Spoiler

Also Dagda is giving Reaper a run for his money for the "Biggest Edgelord 2016" award

So has anyone else been playing the game? What are your thoughts on the game?

 

[Fox12]

Huh, haven't played a game in the series since 3. How does it fit into the series as a whole? I adore Persona, but I liked the unique feel of Shin Megami Tensai. I remember not being into the medieval look of 4, but this one looks much more exciting.

 

[SweetShark]

Quick question:
Is it neccessert to play SMT4 to enjoy this one?

 

[RaikuFA]

Huh, haven't played a game in the series since 3. How does it fit into the series as a whole? I adore Persona, but I liked the unique feel of Shin Megami Tensai. I remember not being into the medieval look of 4, but this one looks much more exciting.

This one goes more for the setting of 2. While the characters are meh every thing that I hated in 4 is gone. The world map has markers of each area and fiends are restricted to a bonus dungeon instead of luck. And while I wish they had an accessory that guarantees a fusion accident, they did add being sick and having low luck ups the chances of an accident and an accessory that lowers your luck to one and makes you weak to attacks that make you sick.

Also your alignment is more black and white this time around (the leader of both law and chaos ask you to join them near the end of the game) instead of answering questions with multiple shades of grey answers and the only way you could find which alignment you belong to is talking to some random nice and deciphering his code with the smt4 secret decoder ring. Least in 2 you could kill alignment focused demons to adjust your alignment and the game would tell you your alignment through your map icon.

 

[RaikuFA]

Quick question:
Is it neccessert to play SMT4 to enjoy this one?

I would say at least read a wiki at least to find out what happened in the neutral route, cause it takes place in the neutral route.

 

[totheendofsin]

Quick question:
Is it neccessert to play SMT4 to enjoy this one?

I feel the game does a decent job at making sure you aren't lost, there's also notes that can fill you in on various concepts and bios for all the characters backstories.

there are also some free dlcs that are lore notes that go into the games backstory, but I'm not sure how thorough those are

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

I think I'm at the final boss fight right now, and I'm having to grind for the first time just to survive his opening attacks. Currently 'racing' a Let's Player who updates twice a day.

Admittedly, I feel like it borrows a bit too much from the previous game. Hardly any new demons or moves, I've seen like four new locations total, though some of the old ones were expanded a bit. Definitely an easier game overall, even on War difficulty setting, but that might be due to the re-balancing of certain broken abilities and a much better partner system.

Awesome final dungeon anyway, if it truly is the final. Definitely feels like it, but you never know.

Story spoilers ahead:

Spoiler

Again I haven't quite finished up yet, but despite the haunting opening and ominous subtitle, it's a much more traditional JRPG than the cosmic horror story of its predecessors. Friendship rules all, and it's presented as the best choice even when Gods and demons try to split you up or make you into their servants. None of the other paths have seemed remotely enticing, and it's always clear what the 'good' choice to make is. Not that I won't try the others later, just lamenting the loss of moral ambiguity in a series known for it.

I did however, find Krishna to be more capable and effective a villain than YHVH or Lucifer despite the Pegasus-esque voice. Interesting idea, bringing in the Indian Gods with their own plan for humanity just as twisted as the Chaos and Law deities we're used to by now.

He also said something about Lucifer that I was hoping would lead into a new twist on the Chaos path- that he was created by YHVH as a scapegoat for all the world's evils and he never actually intends to win their eternal war. In essence, he's a fraud. I was hoping to get a Chaos path where we join him, but then call him out on this and cast him down to make way for a true lord of Chaos who will actually fight to win.

Despite these quibbles, I knew I had to get it just for this:

 

[Erttheking]

I'm around 20 hours in and I think it's pretty good. It kind of feels like a more polished IV, but considering how much of a fun but sloppy mess SMT IV could be at times, I don't consider that to necessarily be a bad thing. I do appreciate how they addressed so many complaints from the first game (Except the gun merchant being an arrogant and obnoxious prick, but you can't get everything I suppose)

 

[Fappy]

I will probably pick it up at some point between DS3's first DLC and the Nighthold raid opening (WoW).

I 100%'d the compendium in SMT IV. Is this game a big enough departure to invest that kind of time again or does it feel like a retread of the last one?

 

[RaikuFA]

I will probably pick it up at some point between DS3's first DLC and the Nighthold raid opening (WoW).

I 100%'d the compendium in SMT IV. Is this game a big enough departure to invest that kind of time again or does it feel like a retread of the last one?

I said it in this topic, but the fiends are locked in a late game bonus dungeon and being sick+low luck are a faction for fusion accidents now so it's a bit easier to get all the Famed and Zealot demons.

 

[Fappy]

I will probably pick it up at some point between DS3's first DLC and the Nighthold raid opening (WoW).

I 100%'d the compendium in SMT IV. Is this game a big enough departure to invest that kind of time again or does it feel like a retread of the last one?

I said it in this topic, but the fiends are locked in a late game bonus dungeon and being sick+low luck are a faction for fusion accidents now so it's a bit easier to get all the Famed and Zealot demons.

That's good to know. I think I watched the entirety of Trigun in the time it took to get 3 of the fiends, LOL.

Famed took even longer until I figured out a really good cheese method of getting the ones I needed.

 

[RaikuFA]

I will probably pick it up at some point between DS3's first DLC and the Nighthold raid opening (WoW).

I 100%'d the compendium in SMT IV. Is this game a big enough departure to invest that kind of time again or does it feel like a retread of the last one?

I said it in this topic, but the fiends are locked in a late game bonus dungeon and being sick+low luck are a faction for fusion accidents now so it's a bit easier to get all the Famed and Zealot demons.

That's good to know. I think I watched the entirety of Trigun in the time it took to get 3 of the fiends, LOL.

Famed took even longer until I figured out a really good cheese method of getting the ones I needed.

Is it keep the ones you own and fuse a dead foul class demon with another dead demon? Cause if it isnt, please tell me.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

It isn't out in Europe yet (it has a release date for this year though!) but I'm really excited. Nocturne/Lucifer's Call is my favourite game and I really liked IV, too. It's kind of a bummer to hear it tonally resembles Persona, though. I like Persona a lot but I want SMT to have an SMT atmosphere.

It seems like people are universally considering it better than IV from a gameplay standpoint and that's good to hear.

Huh, haven't played a game in the series since 3. How does it fit into the series as a whole? I adore Persona, but I liked the unique feel of Shin Megami Tensai. I remember not being into the medieval look of 4, but this one looks much more exciting.

Not sure how much you played or saw of IV but it's only medieval for the first dungeon and a couple of other points when you revisit that area. The bulk of the game is literally the exact same setting as this and the characters from IV appear here, too.

 

[Fappy]

I will probably pick it up at some point between DS3's first DLC and the Nighthold raid opening (WoW).

I 100%'d the compendium in SMT IV. Is this game a big enough departure to invest that kind of time again or does it feel like a retread of the last one?

I said it in this topic, but the fiends are locked in a late game bonus dungeon and being sick+low luck are a faction for fusion accidents now so it's a bit easier to get all the Famed and Zealot demons.

That's good to know. I think I watched the entirety of Trigun in the time it took to get 3 of the fiends, LOL.

Famed took even longer until I figured out a really good cheese method of getting the ones I needed.

Is it keep the ones you own and fuse a dead foul class demon with another dead demon? Cause if it isnt, please tell me.

It's been awhile since I did it, but if I remember correctly you are right about the dead foul demon with another dead demon. From there you ensure that your stock is full of all the Famed demons you already have AND all of the highest level demons that can result from a normal fusion. The goal is to fuse the highest level Foul demon (I think it is around level 44 normally) and another natively high level demon that will result in a very high level demon (don't remember the combo or how high level it can get).

The reason for this is because the pool of possible fusions at high level (85-90s) is significantly smaller than any other level range. When the fusion triggers it will first consider any demons that belong in that level range pool. If it can't find any valid ones because you already have them in your stock it will look for the Famed demon closest to that level range. If there isn't one it will go down the list of Famed demons until it lands on one you don't have in your stock.

I am pretty sure that's how it works, but it has been awhile. It saved me a lot of time, as before I was targeting specific famed demons by stocking up on demons in their level range. Turns out brute forcing it through the high level method works a lot better lol.

 

[RaikuFA]

I will probably pick it up at some point between DS3's first DLC and the Nighthold raid opening (WoW).

I 100%'d the compendium in SMT IV. Is this game a big enough departure to invest that kind of time again or does it feel like a retread of the last one?

I said it in this topic, but the fiends are locked in a late game bonus dungeon and being sick+low luck are a faction for fusion accidents now so it's a bit easier to get all the Famed and Zealot demons.

That's good to know. I think I watched the entirety of Trigun in the time it took to get 3 of the fiends, LOL.

Famed took even longer until I figured out a really good cheese method of getting the ones I needed.

Is it keep the ones you own and fuse a dead foul class demon with another dead demon? Cause if it isnt, please tell me.

It's been awhile since I did it, but if I remember correctly you are right about the dead foul demon with another dead demon. From there you ensure that your stock is full of all the Famed demons you already have AND all of the highest level demons that can result from a normal fusion. The goal is to fuse the highest level Foul demon (I think it is around level 44 normally) and another natively high level demon that will result in a very high level demon (don't remember the combo or how high level it can get).

The reason for this is because the pool of possible fusions at high level (85-90s) is significantly smaller than any other level range. When the fusion triggers it will first consider any demons that belong in that level range pool. If it can't find any valid ones because you already have them in your stock it will look for the Famed demon closest to that level range. If there isn't one it will go down the list of Famed demons until it lands on one you don't have in your stock.

I am pretty sure that's how it works, but it has been awhile. It saved me a lot of time, as before I was targeting specific famed demons by stocking up on demons in their level range. Turns out brute forcing it through the high level method works a lot better lol.

Alright, thanks. Thinking of replaying 4 just to say I beat neutral