Titanfall Doesn't Have Anti-Cheat (Yet)

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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Kopikatsu said:
Mr.Tea said:
[tweet t=https://twitter.com/jonshiring/status/445284850556080128]
Got it, that makes more sense, but pulling this sort of anti hack job isn't really advisable for what is either a new game developer or one with a dubious record with dealing with hackers depending on your point of view.

Really wished that Twitter quote was with the first one.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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iseko said:
I get what you're saying. But cheating for money or glory I could understand. Cheating so you can have a wank over how fantastic your aimbot is however... You're not winning anything with it except contempt.

OT: It's good what theyre doing. Build a database of people hacking and do a nice purge once in a while. It will net more results. Also: Ban them from any game that you can please. Also offline single player versions. Put it in the user agreement. Hacking should really be firmly punished. Bring out the BANHAMMER!
"I beat you, im better than you, i won, you lost, im the winner, your the looser" ect. The fact that he done this cheating does not even enter into his thinking. Its a pure competition - its human nature.



Snotnarok said:
Yeah they have that in game, burn cards, if you're still losing and need to use a system that is outside the game, that's cheating. That's not like nitrus, that's like shooting at the other driver with a heat seeking missile then claiming skill or whatever.
try reading my post again. your talking about different things.

Zac Jovanovic said:
I can't think of a single anti cheat that actually works well enough instantly to remove the need for players to be able to kick and ban players from the server.
Not strictly a anti-cheat but its to combat cheating is why its used. Server calculation. everything is calculated on the server. from hit detection to the speed and direction your walking. your computer sends the inputs, then the server reacts on them and send you back feedback. if the game processes wrongly, the server slaps your end and tells you where you should be. if the game is working normally there is no problem. if you are cheating your just gliching your own game with absolutely no effect on other players or yourself other than visual distortion.
This is used in quite a few games, but the thing is it requires dedicated servers, and most games cant even get that part right.

Mr.Tea said:
Here's the tweet if you're curious:

[tweet t=https://twitter.com/jonshiring/status/445284850556080128]
Hes wrong though. Catching is enforcing. what they are doing is actually spectating. Its like watching somone murder a person and claiming that "yeah we know hes a criminal but we will let him murder for a bit because its easier for us that way"
 

CyberAkuma

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Zac Jovanovic said:
COD was secured by VAC (Valve Anti Cheat) which does fuck all for players in the short term. They let you be raped by cheaters for as long as 6 months before ban waving a couple hundred thousand and then repeat. They don't even take player reports, just rely 100% on automatically detecting cheaters.
It is Infinity Wards' or possibly Activision's fault there is no player game control in most COD games though. I can't think of a single anti cheat that actually works well enough instantly to remove the need for players to be able to kick and ban players from the server.
I reported a cheater [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3217910] on the Black Ops 2 Forums over 3 months ago. The guys is not only STILL playing, he is ranked #2 in the world.

This is a major problem with not having dedicated servers, the entire banning system is automated with little to no human interaction. Cheaters can be playing for MONTHS and nothing happends. It is unacceptable at this point that a game that is over a YEAR old still has these issues.
 

Zac Jovanovic

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CyberAkuma said:
I reported a cheater [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3217910] on the Black Ops 2 Forums over 3 months ago. The guys is not only STILL playing, he is ranked #2 in the world.

This is a major problem with not having dedicated servers, the entire banning system is automated with little to no human interaction. Cheaters can be playing for MONTHS and nothing happends. It is unacceptable at this point that a game that is over a YEAR old still has these issues.
Yup. As I said, they don't take reports. Be it a forum shame post, steam report ticket or some other way the only purpose it will serve is to make you feel a little bit better.

Not only cheaters play for months before being banned, they often never get banned at all. I still have people that cheated in my Steam friend list since MW2 days, never got banned. And I'm talking 150:0 infinite ammo headshot through 12 walls bots.

We can rip on Titanfall all we want, the fact is bar is set pretty damn low to begin with.
For all I know it will have better security than one VAC provides. No one ever got banned in the first couple months with VAC anyway.
 

fix-the-spade

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CyberAkuma said:
This is a major problem with not having dedicated servers, the entire banning system is automated with little to no human interaction. Cheaters can be playing for MONTHS and nothing happends. It is unacceptable at this point that a game that is over a YEAR old still has these issues.
Titanfall runs on centralised servers (as opposed to peer to peer) so that's not the problem. The problem is that it's a typical EA launch brought to you by the guys who created Modern Warfare 2, so it's not finished and the guys in charge wouldn't know how to run anti cheat if VAC cut their balls off.

Matchmaking isn't impossible to admin, Valve (more or less) manage it with Left 4 Dead and Counter Strike, the problem is that in typical EA fashion the game has launched with extremely important features missing, the way the campaign works (or doesn't) should show that as polished as the base mechanics are Titanfall wasn't ready when it hit gold.
 

CyberAkuma

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MinionJoe said:
Well, it IS a multi-player game. Hackers and cheaters are just part of it. Like launch day server crashes and overpriced DLC. People will just have to deal with it, because I can't see a company ostracizing such a significant portion of their paying player base.
But it *SHOULDN'T* be something people will have to deal with. It SHOULDN'T be an excuse that "Oh, it's just a part of release hiccups, we just have to cope with it"

As several other people here have stated - Infinity Ward in the past has done very little to give a rats ass about the cheaters, it being a persistant problem and in the worse case scenrio cheaters stay on for MONTHS. Not having dedicated servers that people can't administrate leaves hacking and cheating to a very open and real problem. This is 2014 after all, not mid-90's counter-strike. A $60 AAA-title has much less of an excuse having these problems, and in my personal experience with every VAC-enabled game the anti-cheat system is entirely useless and the people responsable for banning people give little to no shits at all.

"It's just a part of it" is the poorest and sickening excuse there is for this kind of problem.
The developer of this game is willing to NOT launch the game in South Africa because of connectivity issues but they are more than willing not using a anti-cheat system?! How does THAT make any sense?
Cheaters ruin the game and make the game unplayable; equally that to laggy servers.

This is outright bonkers.
 

Vanbael

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Jun 13, 2009
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Now I'm waiting even longer to pick it up. Holy shit this is blatantly irresponsible for a multiplayer based game to not have a anti-cheat function. I've been in games with hacks and glitches before and that was a terrible experience. This is just a fucking farce if I pay for this game and expect it to play for each dollar I put into it.
 

Zac Jovanovic

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Jan 5, 2012
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I can't believe I'm having to take a position defending these greedy ass corporations. Everyone seems to jump on the hate bandwagon and crucify them for things others have been doing forever. First Origin, then TESO and now this.

This is exactly how Valve Anti Cheat works too! This is how most other AAA FPS anti cheats work as well.
They collect cheater data for a few weeks/months and do a banwave.

When you're using an automated anti cheat system it's very counterproductive to start banning early or too often, cheats get adapted to avoid them in no time.

That being said, it should be unacceptable that automatic anti cheat is the only line of defense against cheaters. Developers not including ways for players to immediately remove cheaters from games should be crucified.
 

electric method

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I've run into 2 aimbotters on the Xbox One, a number of lag switchers about 10 or 15 people using invincibility type cheats, but the biggest most glaring issue has been people from outside the U.S. intentionally jumping on U.S. servers to gain an unfair advantage. This has also happened in reverse where US players go to non US servers to do exactly the same thing.

Then again, some of the server bouncing is a function of how Respawn coded the servers to handle peak loads. If during peak times in say, the U.K. their servers cannot handle all of the players attempting to connect, the game will search for the next closest server. In the U.K.'s case this is the East Coast U.S. servers. The game then connects those players to the U.S. servers and the game starts with horrendous lag.

In short, one is almost guaranteed to have large numbers of games that are lagfests and players are bound to run into the other sorts of cheats that are all to common in Titanfall. I can honestly say I've never seen a game this riddled with cheaters of all stripes at launch.
 

tdylan

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Jun 17, 2011
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What's the point of catching them if you're not going to do anything about it? You're going to deal with them eventually? Okay. So the rest of the community simply needs to shut up and suffer through it while waiting for you to get around to enforcing it?
 

Vigormortis

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Nov 21, 2007
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My god...

The level of ignorance in here on how anti-cheat systems work is staggering. Absolutely confounding.

It seems many of you just don't understand or don't appreciate just how tenacious and hard-working hackers are. (as ironic as that seems)

If these anti-cheat systems instantly banned a detected hacker, the systems would become completely useless very quickly. Not because it would remove every hacker from the game but rather because the hackers would quickly learn the anti-cheat system's tricks and would adapt accordingly. This would then result in the developer having to put an incredible amount of money, time, and resources into having to re-adapt their system to the constant, ever-changing adaptations the hackers are coming up with. It's a cyclical scenario that, logistically, just isn't feasible for the developers.

If you don't get it or you don't believe me, that's fine. I don't really care. But before you start going off on Respawn, or other developers for that matter, over something you don't understand, maybe you should look up how this sort of thing works first.
 

Scow2

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Zac Jovanovic said:
That being said, it should be unacceptable that automatic anti cheat is the only line of defense against cheaters. Developers not including ways for players to immediately remove cheaters from games should be crucified.
Except that frequently, when players have the option to ban Cheaters, cheating is suddenly defined as "Actually being good", "Having a female voice", "Being Terrible", "Having a female voice", "Getting lucky", "Having a female voice", "Using a gun other people don't like", and "Having a female voice".
 

Zac Jovanovic

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Scow2 said:
Except that frequently, when players have the option to ban Cheaters, cheating is suddenly defined as "Actually being good", "Having a female voice", "Being Terrible", "Having a female voice", "Getting lucky", "Having a female voice", "Using a gun other people don't like", and "Having a female voice".
It's true. Having played multiplayer shooters for more than a decade and a half I've been banned by butthurt admins more than most. It's still a small price to pay compared to helplessness of being continuously raped by aimbotting/wallhacking cheaters.

Nowadays I find one server that fits me and stick to it, go easy on the admins for a while and make friends with them, hop to the losing team all the time and such.

I don't think I've ever been vote kicked for being good though.

Servers generally have weapon rules so kicks for that are fully justified if you're breaking them. I often see people getting flamed for their choice of weapon but I don't think I've ever seen an admin kick for that unless he made it a rule, he payed for the server so he gets to pick the weapons.
In most games a vote kick won't pass even for a blatant cheater, let alone for someone not doing anything wrong.

And.. female voice? What the hell have you been playing? And where? Females I know that play FPSs get so many blind defenders even when they get a slightest criticism. Just the idea of one getting vote kicked after speaking makes me laugh.

And most importantly, why the hell would you have game voip on in the first place. Even in teamplay based games nobody ever says anything constructive on it, those who bother to talk game use skype, vent, ts or other where they won't be disturbed by screeching idiots.
 

SecondPrize

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MW2, from the same people, was simply awful for hacks. I learned my lesson there not to ever fuck around with PC shooters that don't have dedicated servers. A little effort in finding servers with active admins and hacking isn't much of a problem anymore. Making a list of favorite servers with maps/modes and people you like is sweet as well.
 

Snotnarok

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Strazdas said:
iseko said:
Snotnarok said:
Yeah they have that in game, burn cards, if you're still losing and need to use a system that is outside the game, that's cheating. That's not like nitrus, that's like shooting at the other driver with a heat seeking missile then claiming skill or whatever.
try reading my post again. your talking about different things.
Yeah, I know what you said, "it's against the rules", but cheating like invulnerability, aimbot, see through walls isn't just 'going faster', it's making yourself, in your comparison a M1 Abrams tank that has the speed of a formula 1 car and perfect handling, or just teleporting to the finish line. The burncards are 'against the rules' in the light they are an OP version of a gun, or allow you to instantly recall a titan if yours gets blown up or get radar that tells you where everyone is, for 1 life, things you normally without the card cannot do and you find them so not everyone in that match has the same card. It's an advantage granted by an 1 time use item. A guy who has invincibility ...doesn't work to nitrus, it's more comparable to bending the laws of physics to win.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Snotnarok said:
Strazdas said:
iseko said:
Snotnarok said:
Yeah they have that in game, burn cards, if you're still losing and need to use a system that is outside the game, that's cheating. That's not like nitrus, that's like shooting at the other driver with a heat seeking missile then claiming skill or whatever.
try reading my post again. your talking about different things.
Yeah, I know what you said, "it's against the rules", but cheating like invulnerability, aimbot, see through walls isn't just 'going faster', it's making yourself, in your comparison a M1 Abrams tank that has the speed of a formula 1 car and perfect handling, or just teleporting to the finish line. The burncards are 'against the rules' in the light they are an OP version of a gun, or allow you to instantly recall a titan if yours gets blown up or get radar that tells you where everyone is, for 1 life, things you normally without the card cannot do and you find them so not everyone in that match has the same card. It's an advantage granted by an 1 time use item. A guy who has invincibility ...doesn't work to nitrus, it's more comparable to bending the laws of physics to win.
no, i was giving an example of a similar situation to reason why they do it, not how they do it. were talking about completely different things.

as far as invulnerability and recalling titans instantly i already gave a perfectly easy solution - make these things server dependant so the cheater cant do anything from his end to begin with. if the calcualtion of hitboxes is done on server - its simply not possible to make invincibility cheat. the same goes about teleporting ect. the only real problem is seeing through walls, since that will always be handled on the user side (unless you use OnLive or something). however there were interesting attempts to sovle this, such as dont even load enemy character position till you can "See" them (as in the server does not even tell the client where the enemy is till you reach the point where you could technicalyl see it), but this hasnt worked that well due to sometimes causing "detection lag" when one person sees the other earlier due to servers slow processing (its resource demanding process, so they made the scan for detection to happen every 500ms, and in FPS a lot can happen in that amount of time).
 

Snotnarok

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Strazdas said:
Snotnarok said:
Strazdas said:
iseko said:
Snotnarok said:
Yeah they have that in game, burn cards, if you're still losing and need to use a system that is outside the game, that's cheating. That's not like nitrus, that's like shooting at the other driver with a heat seeking missile then claiming skill or whatever.
try reading my post again. your talking about different things.
Yeah, I know what you said, "it's against the rules", but cheating like invulnerability, aimbot, see through walls isn't just 'going faster', it's making yourself, in your comparison a M1 Abrams tank that has the speed of a formula 1 car and perfect handling, or just teleporting to the finish line. The burncards are 'against the rules' in the light they are an OP version of a gun, or allow you to instantly recall a titan if yours gets blown up or get radar that tells you where everyone is, for 1 life, things you normally without the card cannot do and you find them so not everyone in that match has the same card. It's an advantage granted by an 1 time use item. A guy who has invincibility ...doesn't work to nitrus, it's more comparable to bending the laws of physics to win.
no, i was giving an example of a similar situation to reason why they do it, not how they do it. were talking about completely different things.

as far as invulnerability and recalling titans instantly i already gave a perfectly easy solution - make these things server dependant so the cheater cant do anything from his end to begin with. if the calcualtion of hitboxes is done on server - its simply not possible to make invincibility cheat. the same goes about teleporting ect. the only real problem is seeing through walls, since that will always be handled on the user side (unless you use OnLive or something). however there were interesting attempts to sovle this, such as dont even load enemy character position till you can "See" them (as in the server does not even tell the client where the enemy is till you reach the point where you could technicalyl see it), but this hasnt worked that well due to sometimes causing "detection lag" when one person sees the other earlier due to servers slow processing (its resource demanding process, so they made the scan for detection to happen every 500ms, and in FPS a lot can happen in that amount of time).
Look I dunno exactly what you're on about, I read your post and I was only commenting on how it's not like nitrus in a match ...that's really it, it was just being picky about words for fun. I was referring to when you said cheaters are like guys with 'nos' and use it at the last minute despite it being against the rules.
I find it more like being in a car with a forcefield from the future, something the other player has no access to but you're winning with. Burn cards are more like nitrus in the light that it's not something every player has (specific ones anyway) so that's the kind of boost you can get, like an amped gun that's 'technically' OP vs the regular version. That's all haha...
I think some wires got crossed here is all, I was just really pushing your point further is all, hope that cleared things up! D:
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Snotnarok said:
Look I dunno exactly what you're on about, I read your post and I was only commenting on how it's not like nitrus in a match ...that's really it, it was just being picky about words for fun. I was referring to when you said cheaters are like guys with 'nos' and use it at the last minute despite it being against the rules.
I find it more like being in a car with a forcefield from the future, something the other player has no access to but you're winning with. Burn cards are more like nitrus in the light that it's not something every player has (specific ones anyway) so that's the kind of boost you can get, like an amped gun that's 'technically' OP vs the regular version. That's all haha...
I think some wires got crossed here is all, I was just really pushing your point further is all, hope that cleared things up! D:
That is correct. you dont know what im saying. Maybe next time if you do not understand, you should not try to contradict?

I didnt say cheaters are like guys with NOS. i said they do it for the same reason guys with NOS do it.

Yes, it does look like a large misunderstanding here.