To reduce carjackings Illinois state representative wants to ban GTA and other violent games

XsjadoBlayde

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I'mma try and take this seriously.

But...

Operation safe pump? How refreshing to see a republican on the frontline for contraception!

Early Walker? When parents look at the wrong side of the end credits in the extras section when finding baby names.

Aight, am done. Nothing else to extract from this.
 
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Burnhardt

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I for one want something done about all these Mario games. I'm tired of seeing people stomp on mushrooms every time I go to the store.
That's not Mario. Mario is the that causes people to consume strange plantlife and then stomp the wildlife, or set it on fire.
 

Schadrach

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"this game will make you want to steal a car"
That's not what they're saying at all. Instead they're saying that the player learns and practices new carjacking-related scripts which become more and more accessible for use, leading to the creation and heightened accessibility of a variety of car theft related knowledge structures, thus effectively altering the person's basic personality structure.

Which is totally different and unrelated to what you said.
 
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Avnger

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That's not what they're saying at all. Instead they're saying that the player learns and practices new carjacking-related scripts which become more and more accessible for use, leading to the creation and heightened accessibility of a variety of car theft related knowledge structures, thus effectively altering the person's basic personality structure.

Which is totally different and unrelated to what you said.
2/10 troll attempt. Try harder next time.
 

Drathnoxis

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I agree! The sooner we ban all video games, the sooner we can get back to the idyllic crime free world we used to live in.
 
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Eacaraxe

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Just thought I'd drop in here to point out yet again the biggest correlative and predictor for violent crime (other than lead, anyhow) is Gini coefficient. But God forbid we solve for root causes in this country like poverty rather than pull some dipshit distraction shit that won't even solve for a symptom.
 
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Avnger

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Just thought I'd drop in here to point out yet again the biggest correlative and predictor for violent crime (other than lead, anyhow) is Gini coefficient. But God forbid we solve for root causes in this country like poverty rather than pull some dipshit distraction shit that won't even solve for a symptom.
That would require compassion and empathy though....
 

Schadrach

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2/10 troll attempt. Try harder next time.
C'mon, it's got to be worth more than 2/10. I mean, I paraphrased from a study by Karen Dill-Shackleford (then just Dill), which was one of the most cited studies on violence and video games (and one that everyone's favorite boogie man, Jack Thompson was fond of). Just replace carjacking/theft with aggression and it's almost a direct quote.

What's more interesting about Dill-Shackleford's work is that she basically makes the same media effects argument for virtually all media and most social ills (her book How Fantasy Becomes Reality is basically about this), and in turn has been used as a source or inspiration for others making similar arguments. And when *those* arguments get distilled down to "$MEDIA_TYPE causes/makes you $BAD_THING" the usual response is that that's not what being said at all, but some other phrasing of the same notion (for example that it "perpetuates and reinforces"). Which is definitely a totally different thing, and several folks on these forums will claim so for the right value of $BAD_THING.

Would it have been a better had I merely said "Video games support and reinforce carjacking."?
 
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Eacaraxe

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Would it have been a better had I merely said "Video games support and reinforce carjacking."?
The problem is, as I see it, nobody fucking ever actually reads Foucault. They love to name drop, post quotes, and cherry pick from his work, but actually read it? naw bro, too hard. I say this, precisely for this exact sort of conflating cultivation and normalization that is disturbingly pervasive among pseudo-intellectuals with ideological axes to grind and ulterior motives that underlie them. And on the flip side, nobody fucking actually reads Foucault to be equipped with a tool kit for countering the bullshit narrative.

Here's what's going on.

Cultivation is a theory that states people believe the world is, as represented by mass media. That's it. So for example, if all an hypothetical person ever watched was The Office and had never been exposed to an actual white-collar workplace before, they might be inclined to think white-collar workplaces are happy go-lucky affairs populated by whacky folks who get up to shenanigans for which they rarely, if ever, face lasting consequences. When the reality is Dunder-Mifflin's HR and legal team would have taken a chainsaw to the Scranton branch simply to avoid the avalanche of potential hostile work environment suits, starting with Michael.

Or, a more stark and controversial example, if all a person ever watched was Lifetime, informative murder porn channels like Investigation Discovery, or dumpster-tier infotainment channels like HLN, they'd be more likely to believe the majority of men (if not all men) are abusive and likely to murder their spouses, while the women would be abusive and likely to murder their children.

Except the problem is, you don't get from cultivation to normalization in a vacuum as aforementioned pseudo-intellectuals assert. Normalization is contextual, and while cultivation is a key factor it must be paired with operant conditioning to create a regime of thoughts and behaviors to be idealized as well as denigrated. Your average cubicle-monkey isn't turning into Jim or Dwight because, even though The Office is an idealized work place, a television show alone cannot create conditions for reward or punishment for the viewer based upon how they act in their own work places.

And likewise, Lifetime specials and informative murder porn don't idealize spousal and child abuse, and murder, all on their own; rather, they superficially denigrate it. You could make the case they idealize those behaviors in a uniquely American sense in the greater context of all media because American media idealizes fame, and if nothing involvement in a particularly salacious abuse or murder case is one way to get famous fast (and likely a book or movie deal). I mean case in point,

gettyimages-118409022-594x594_1548361035457_68566256_ver1.0.jpg

t720016_07.jpg

But are those shitty television shows capable of normalizing spousal and child abuse, and murder, of and by themselves? No.

The argument is, due to these games' mechanics, violent and "deviant" behavior is idealized by way of incentivization in the context of game play. The issue is, incentivization and idealization/denigration are not synonymous. The GTA series in particular, despite that violent and "deviant" behaviors are incentivized in the course of game play, those behaviors are also denigrated as the games go out of their way to portray the player characters as villainous. Even accounting for the series' overarching themes of excess materialism and consumerism, late capitalism, gross social inequity, and toxic masculinity as definitive breeding grounds for criminality.

The worst you'll get from GTA is cultivation, which in this case is a perception of the world as violently criminal and overwhelmingly dominated by the very worst excesses of capitalism. Because the game does not idealize this state of affairs; rather, it condemns it.
 

Schadrach

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The argument is, due to these games' mechanics, violent and "deviant" behavior is idealized by way of incentivization in the context of game play. The issue is, incentivization and idealization/denigration are not synonymous. The GTA series in particular, despite that violent and "deviant" behaviors are incentivized in the course of game play, those behaviors are also denigrated as the games go out of their way to portray the player characters as villainous.
So basically we should ignore the gameplay and what the actual gameplay encourages and promotes and instead assume any influence stems from the narrative that the player characters are criminals and villains? So, would that mean GTA Online instead "supports and reinforce" criminality? Since it's the crime sandbox without the tales of three criminals but with more ability to directly harm other players for funsies, which means you have what is incentivized by gameplay without a narrative to denigrate it in place. Does it matter whether you got GTA Online through a copy of GTA V or standalone? Does it matter if you skip the cutscenes? If so, should the cutscenes be unstoppable for purposes of public safety - to ensure that the moral instruction is present alongside the gameplay incentives? =p
 

Eacaraxe

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So basically we should ignore the gameplay and what the actual gameplay encourages and promotes and instead assume any influence stems from the narrative that the player characters are criminals and villains?
Well, that is what context means, yes. Not that pop culture critics demonstrably understand context, or anything. I mean they can't even get the core premise of their own argument right enough to form the basis for falsifying salient causative links. We're well into Ray Comfort banana man territory of nonsense arguments, here.

So, would that mean GTA Online instead "supports and reinforce" criminality? Since it's the crime sandbox without the tales of three criminals but with more ability to directly harm other players for funsies, which means you have what is incentivized by gameplay without a narrative to denigrate it in place.
I'd argue the messaging of GTAO is implicit rather than explicit as in the case of the single-player mode, but even not accounting for that GTAO still has an oblique narrative that acts as the online mode's framing device through the linear-progression heist missions and their (mostly tutorial) unlocks.

One could make an argument here the GTAO heists are entirely optional content and players must choose to do them of their own volition, but I wouldn't make that argument. I'd immediately turn around and point out so is GTAV's story, and in either case players are incentivized to engage with them. Because at that point, you're stuck conceding these aren't actually incentives but rather content gates, meaning participation in the narrative is mandatory to unlock later-game content, or simply conceding the question of incentivization is moot because players can simply choose to not participate from the onset. In either case, you're admitting you don't actually have a salient or rational argument.
 

Silvanus

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Operation safe pump? How refreshing to see a republican on the frontline for contraception!
Marcus Evans Jr. is a Democrat, actually. The Republicans don't quite have a monopoly on anachronistic idiocy (though they're trying hard).
 
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