Tomadachi Life Conspiracy: Because Nintendo Just can't catch a break these days

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Dragonbums said:
Honestly, Japan in general has been a lot better in all of these fields than the US of A. They add a lot more women representation in games. They have quite a few games were everything revolves around gay relation ships (yes dating sims do count.) They aren't afraid to make these women prominent main characters in the game and the box art, and so far they have including more ethnically diverse characters as a whole than the Western market where people either demand they have a reason to be there, or bring up the good ol demographic and business charts to justify things staying the way they are.

So for a shut in society they ironically enough are doing a hell of a lot better in the representation category than the country that's supposedly a "mixing pot"
Yeah, a great "melting pot" in they supposedly allow different ideas and cultures but then proceed to try and homogenize them, thus robbing them of any unique identity or flair. It almost seems like a lot of this bashing against Japan is in a futile effort to make up myths just so the US seems a lot less homophobic, racist, and sexist than it really is. Heck, I can name more female protagonists in Japanese games than I can in Western ones. Seems to me that for all of Western designers' bragging their ACTIONS really show what's going on.

xaszatm said:
It stand for Queer. Now, I'm not the most well known when it comes to the LGBQT topics but the main reason why I put the Q there is because Queer seems to be the people that don't fit into the LGBT catagories. As an asexual, I am pretty sure I'm in this category though those with more knowledge can certainly correct me.
Weird, so I guess I'm counted in too due to asexuality.
 

Eve Charm

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Church185 said:
I know that Nintendo has been sneaking in more LGBT stuff into their games, but it is kind of odd that a "life simulator" doesn't let LGBT people simulate their life. That is what drew people's attention. Like I said before, it could all have been easily waived on if they had simply said "whoops, we'll look into putting it in the next one, this one is too old to change" instead of being cagey about it. I know the glitch needed to be patched out because it was game breaking, but I wasn't really talking about that. I was talking about how Nintendo responded to the controversy.
Well you pretty much hit the nail on the head for the solution and the problem, Nintendo never had to the chance. When a whole SWJ crusade spins out of nowhere banging on your door about an issue with a game that's over a year old that your only working on a port on what do you do? Seeing all the wrong information articles out they couldn't even get a translator to put a good statement together before the headlines were already printing that Nintendo is anti-LGBT.

This started by a sensible guy with a sensible well thought-out request with the utmost respect of the organization he was making the request to. That person has been effectual drown out all together by the crap show this became with people pushing their personal agenda and running off posting Misinformation, Disinformation, Lies, Attacks, Twisting words and slinging mud at anyone "Not With Them"

If anyone blew it here it wasn't Nintendo. This should have been something easy going and easy to get behind request of just asking nintendo to put LGBT in their game and making them aware they have a big audience for it. What effective happened is people effective drew a line in the sand "Your with us or against" crap making people actually having the choose sides and "Attack" Lots of people don't take kindly to bullying to your side and hell that's one of the quickest way to get me to fight on the side I normal wouldn't fight on.

Hopefully this all blows over and Miiquality still stand since that's the only thing that was "Right" with this. But right now as an informed person with no personal stake, guess what side I think the bad guys are on.
 

Dragonbums

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Church185 said:
I know that Nintendo has been sneaking in more LGBT stuff into their games, but it is kind of odd that a "life simulator" doesn't let LGBT people simulate their life. That is what drew people's attention. Like I said before, it could all have been easily waived on if they had simply said "whoops, we'll look into putting it in the next one, this one is too old to change" instead of being cagey about it. I know the glitch needed to be patched out because it was game breaking, but I wasn't really talking about that. I was talking about how Nintendo responded to the controversy.
Well someone already beat me to the punch in that regard, but this is a perfect case of Deer being Caught in the Headlights. Someone on Miiquality Life made a very reasonable and laid back response to Nintendo not having gay relationships in games. Before Nintendo could even make a thought out proper response they got bombarded with shit flinging about how they are a bunch of bigots. Which resulted them in making a rushed and even more confusing response. This is a port of a one year old game. I would expect most people to be smart enough about this shit and read up on it before grabbing the pitchforks. In this scenario- as much as I'm for LGBTQ+ rights and representation in the media, on this case I'm going to have to say that the activists are in the very wrong here. They shouldn't have reacted as they did, and knowing that they didn't even have the full story they should not of spread it around like wildfire.

As for Jeffers, I'm pretty sure that he was defending Bayonetta pretty hard because at the time he was banking on games like it and W101 to help pull the Wii U out of the slump it's in. All the other infractions that were on his health bar leading up to the ban were almost certainly NDF related as well. Jeffers was a smart guy, but he seriously needed to learn to cool his jets and not let people bait him into getting infractions.

I saw the thread before it was taken down. Believe me it was about game mechanics in hack and slash games. (Hell that was even the name of the thread if I'm not mistaken) One believed DmC was better in terms of gameplay. Jeffers believed it was Bayonetta. From there it got to arguing and then one side insulted the other and that was the end of that.

I don't actually think many people call for Nintendo to shut down. There are a lot of people like myself who aren't exactly thrilled with the path they have taken with the Wii U (I own one as well as a 3DS), and while we may poopoo on them for the decisions they have made, you will see a lot of discussion about how they could maybe do better. That just goes to show that people want to see Nintendo succeed, but don't think it's possible if they keep doing what they are doing. There are a few people who want to see them follow in Sega's footsteps, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.
Well I guess it is a much common scenario on other sites. Because I've seen a fuck ton of comments of that sort.

It's hard to tell. Lot's of baked in bias that has been bred on this site for a long time. In my opinion someone wanting to have a legitimate discussion about Sony's financial troubles wouldn't have been so provocative. I only used that example because it was your post, there are many other examples of people really attacking the other companies for no other reason than to attack them.
I'll admit that I had no intention of getting into a serious discussion about Sony's financials in the first place. I just wanted to point something out. If that eventually leads to a financial debate than fine by me.

It's an understandable complaint, sometimes people are too quick to throw out NDF, but the behavior has been seen on this site for so long that the regulars almost expect it at this point. The only way it will truly go away is if we quit poopooing on how other people enjoy gaming as a hobby and just have normal discussions. PC vs. Console, Nintendo vs. MicroSony, this stuff has just got to go away.
It's one thing to expect it. It's another to openly talk about it in a comments thread in the hopes that it will happen and watch as you look like complete fools because...well...it never happened. I've only been here for less than a year so I can't really say what the regulars is. But both sides are to blame.

Nintendo fans can't really make one thread talking about something positive about Nintendo before the ususals start proclaiming how they are GimmicksMcGee or shit, and vice versa.
 

Dragonbums

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xaszatm said:
Arqus_Zed said:
Huh...

Seriously, the only thing of that entire post that left me with some form of conflict, is that I don't know what the Q stands for in LGBTQ. It's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual and ... ?
It stand for Queer. Now, I'm not the most well known when it comes to the LGBQT topics but the main reason why I put the Q there is because Queer seems to be the people that don't fit into the LGBT catagories. As an asexual, I am pretty sure I'm in this category though those with more knowledge can certainly correct me.
Not really. Queer only stands for Queer. Hence why some people put in LGBTQ+ as opposed to just LGBTQ. There are a lot more letters in there now that account for all sorts of sexualities but for the sake of brevity and ease most people are only going to type in like 5 letters for the abbreviation max.
 

maxben

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Dragonbums said:
maxben said:
Because of course gays don't have families.
Never claimed that.



I don't see why responsible gay couples and their children must be subject to that filth! Sarcasm aside, I hope that you understand that your claim is part of the problem.

You do understand that America is only one of very few countries that see homosexuals as at the very least people right? In other parts of the world it is still A O-fucking-Kay to lynch/burn/beat up people for even exhibiting the signs of a gay person. So for a lot of the families in the world that is a fucking truth.

Anyhow, since Japan is relatively backwards on most social issues from race to sex I don't doubt that Nintendo is just not comfortable with homosexuality. I have no proof of that but it wouldn't surprise me. Sony is likely the same.

Your accusing me of making shitty claims and the you go on to make a shitty claim yourself.

How is Japan backwards when it comes to most social issues? I can understand race- but that literally comes with being a largely single demographic with very little mixing. Oddly enough though Nintendo has incorporated a lot more black people into their games over the years than the Western market does. Two (that number depends on what version you have.)of the gym leaders in B/W is black, in B/W 2 the Champion was black, and in X and Y ANOTHER gym leader is black. That's not to mention that the past 3 Elite 4 champions have been women and nobody has gone after Nintendo to do those things. They just did it. Hell FE Awakening even had two very prominent black characters- Flavia and Bastion. Nobody fucking questioned it, and nobody cried "shoehorned" either. Not bad for a country and a company where demographics other than Japanese make up only 1-4% of the entire population.

Meanwhile in the United States we have suits telling devs they can't make their characters women, or they can't put them in the front of the box art (something else Japan literally has no problems with.) Can't add more than one ethnic person per game unless people will question why they "exist" (because people other than white need a reason to actually be that ethnicity) so on and so forth.

Is that to say Japan doesn't have it's own issues? No.

But we are pretty fucking backwards (and hypocritical) ourselves when it comes to representing in games. Look how many people threw a ***** fit when Dragon Age had the audacity to make any player homosexual if someone so chooses. An option that you can ignore if your straight is still considered shoehorned. Meanwhile Japan itself has no problems making games like this on a yearly basis.
I have never said that the American gaming industry is good about this stuff. And anyhow, I'm Canadian. However, your arguments are weak. I am not referring to the gaming industry specifically, Japan is well known for being extremely racist and sexist. This is well known and studied. By the way, do you know WHY the country is mostly Japanese? Because they don't allow immigration of lower races, even if they desperately need it to deal with their ageing population. Hell, even Japanese people born outside of Japan are badly treated in Japan.

Now, if you want to talk about gaming, let's due that. Black Characters in Japanese video games, like elsewhere, are always supporting characters. Furthermore, they are often shown either as stereotypes or are implied to be just tanned people instead of black (for example, they have a high usage of "black" characters with blonde hair). Now its interesting that you bring up FE awakening, when both those characters are referred to as Khans and leaders of a barbarian nation with no faith in god and no knowledge of politics and manners. They are Japanese stereotypes of dark skinned people like Mongolians.

Japanese and Western use of women is also the same in video games. So a couple of gym leaders were women, so? A tonne of Western games use far more realized female characters as support casts. Where the Japanese are ahead is in making a woman the lead, but they are also behind when it comes to oversexualization. Hell, the term "fan service" specifically comes from Japanese and is not common in the Western world at all.

So I reject your arguments, and, again, I suggest you go do research on racism and sexism in Japan aka the land of "Korean women volunteered to be sex slaves for our military in WWII", and compare that to America. Also compare it to Canada, which is where my point of view is from and why I see them as backwards. I tend to think Americans are more backwards then us on this stuff as well. I mean, neither you nor the Japanese accept gay marriage (completely) or hate speech laws.
 

Kinitawowi

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xaszatm said:
Arqus_Zed said:
Huh...

Seriously, the only thing of that entire post that left me with some form of conflict, is that I don't know what the Q stands for in LGBTQ. It's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual and ... ?
It stand for Queer. Now, I'm not the most well known when it comes to the LGBQT topics but the main reason why I put the Q there is because Queer seems to be the people that don't fit into the LGBT catagories. As an asexual, I am pretty sure I'm in this category though those with more knowledge can certainly correct me.
Pretty sure it stood for Questioning, or have the goalposts shifted yet again within the last week?

The reason the QUILTBAGgers (yes, I've seen that acronym, and more stupid ones besides) are screaming this from the rooftops is because somehow they've decided that that's the only way to make their opinions heard, and anybody telling them to shut up is automagically against them. That's the way it goes with all Causes these days. Sitting down and having a reasoned discussion with The Enemy is not on their table. It's not a part of their arsenal. And it's the one they need to learn to deploy if they want to get anywhere.

But hysterically screaming "HOMOPHOBIA" gets more clicks. That's how the movement ends up so wound up.
 

snowfi6916

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Regardless of whether Nintendo wanted to provide "social commentary" or not, they did when they made that statement. They could have just said that it wasn't in the original game. But instead they turned it into "we didn't put in same sex relationships because we don't want to make social commentary or stray from the norm". Which is going to be inferred as Nintendo saying that heterosexual relationships are "normal", and same sex relationships are not.

I mean, if they didn't have any black characters in the game, and they said "we don't want to provide social commentary", what would people say then? It is still a very bigoted attitude to have, and in today's world, businesses like Nintendo need to realize that NOT addressing the issue is just as bad as saying "we hate LGBT people" in the eyes of many.

Is that fair? No. But that's reality.
 

Dragonbums

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maxben said:
I have never said that the American gaming industry is good about this stuff. And anyhow, I'm Canadian. However, your arguments are weak. I am not referring to the gaming industry specifically, Japan is well known for being extremely racist and sexist. This is well known and studied. By the way, do you know WHY the country is mostly Japanese? Because they don't allow immigration of lower races, even if they desperately need it to deal with their ageing population. Hell, even Japanese people born outside of Japan are badly treated in Japan.
You say my arguments are weak and yet here you are going on about Japanese society while I'm talking about Nintendo and the videogame industry in relation of LGBTQ+ rights. So of course my argument is "weak" because apparently you want to make commentary about Japan as a whole as opposed to talking about the videogame environment. So how about your bring this conversation back to videogames and not fly way off topic?

Now, if you want to talk about gaming, let's due that.
That was what my initial comment was about in the first place. Your the one that starting talking about society as a whole. So I believe that comment has a lot more relevance to you.



Black Characters in Japanese video games, like elsewhere, are always supporting characters. Furthermore, they are often shown either as stereotypes or are implied to be just tanned people instead of black (for example, they have a high usage of "black" characters with blonde hair). Now its interesting that you bring up FE awakening, when both those characters are referred to as Khans and leaders of a barbarian nation with no faith in god and no knowledge of politics and manners. They are Japanese stereotypes of dark skinned people like Mongolians.
You think I don't know that? I'm black myself, and that is STILL a hell of a lot better than what the Western market has done in that regards. You'd be lucky if they were even a side character yet alone existent in the game.

As for Flavia and Bastion, they are considered "barbarians" in the warrior sense. Not in a derogatory manner (this is also ignoring the fact that there are white people in this nation as well) I'm not exactly sure how having no faith in a God is considered a bad thing, and their politics and manners are more Spartan like than anything. They aren't portrayed as savages. They are portrayed as no nonsense right to the point kind of people that deal with issues through a fair fight in an arena than snake oil talk.

Japanese and Western use of women is also the same in video games.
Japan is still much better at it than the US.




So a couple of gym leaders were women, so?
I also said Elite 4 members which is the strongest trainer in the entire game. I'm curious as to why you see that as something insignificant. Especially when women are hardly represented equally in the first place.



A tonne of Western games use far more realized female characters as support casts.
After just criticsing colored people for just being support casts only you then go and give America points for having a bunch of female support cast members but somehow being a main Gym leader is something that isn't worth mentioning?



Where the Japanese are ahead is in making a woman the lead, but they are also behind when it comes to oversexualization. Hell, the term "fan service" specifically comes from Japanese and is not common in the Western world at all.
And Japan being far ahead than the United States for women being lead characters in games is a big fucking deal. Because here you can't complain about this point once without the capitalist kiss ups talking about how it's all about business and how it wouldn't be profitable and yet in Japan despite a huge amount of women being leaders and taking charge this hasn't hindered the gaming industry in Japan in the slightest.

And no- the United States is not that much better than Japan. We just call it pandering as opposed to fanservice. And there is plenty of it to be had in the United States.



So I reject your arguments, and, again, I suggest you go do research on racism and sexism in Japan aka the land of "Korean women volunteered to be sex slaves for our military in WWII", and compare that to America. Also compare it to Canada, which is where my point of view is from and why I see them as backwards. I tend to think Americans are more backwards then us on this stuff as well. I mean, neither you nor the Japanese accept gay marriage (completely) or hate speech laws.
The US military is far from better from that stuff. Considering how it's not uncommon for women and men to get raped in the military, and there is no shortage of pictures of soldiers posing with killed bodies of Middle Eastern people I'd say we are on the same wavelength .Also WW fucking II. This was an era when Japan and many of their allies were trying to be a major imperial power.

So continue "rejecting" my arguments. But at the same time acknowledge that my point of view is coming from an American perspective so therefore it's made valid.

I mean, what even is this conversation?
 

lacktheknack

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Don't you know? Unless a company fully supports gay relationships, you're supposed to boycott them.

No. Always.
 

PinkiePyro

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Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
 

MrMan999

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chickenhound said:
Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
Well they did publish Eternal Darkness. Which was a horror game with its fair share of gore.


Anyway. I kind of feel bad for the Miiquality guys. They provided a reasonable, mature, well thought out argument and to Nintendo's credit they responded in kind. And then the hardcore social justice crowd got wind and started flinging hate towards Nintendo in response to an imagined slight. Leaving Miiquality in the dust and basically drowning out any sane voice in the room.
 

PinkiePyro

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MrMan999 said:
chickenhound said:
Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
Well they did publish Eternal Darkness. Which was a horror game with its fair share of gore.

yea they did make Eternal Darkness But you forget it had/has a planned sequel that Nintendo put in development limbo
 

Dragonbums

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chickenhound said:
MrMan999 said:
chickenhound said:
Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
Well they did publish Eternal Darkness. Which was a horror game with its fair share of gore.

yea they did make Eternal Darkness But you forget it had/has a planned sequel that Nintendo put in development limbo
It's not like they can do anything about that now considering how Microsoft owns the rights to all of Rare's IP's barring Donkey Kong since that was commissioned from Nintendo.
 

MrMan999

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Dragonbums said:
chickenhound said:
MrMan999 said:
chickenhound said:
Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
Well they did publish Eternal Darkness. Which was a horror game with its fair share of gore.

yea they did make Eternal Darkness But you forget it had/has a planned sequel that Nintendo put in development limbo
It's not like they can do anything about that now considering how Microsoft owns the rights to all of Rare's IP's barring Donkey Kong since that was commissioned from Nintendo.
Um, Eternal Darkness was not Rare. It was Silicon Knights. Also Nintendo wholly owns the Eternal Darkness IP. I think you're thinking of Perfect Dark.
 

Roxas1359

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Dragonbums said:
It's not like they can do anything about that now considering how Microsoft owns the rights to all of Rare's IP's barring Donkey Kong since that was commissioned from Nintendo.
Um...just so you know Rare didn't make or develop Eternal Darkness. That was all Silicon Knights work, the same people who made the GameCube version of MGS 1, or Twin Snakes as it's better known. After checking it out, they as of 2012, only have 5 employees...yeah they've not been doing too well since they made Too Human. In fact, the last game they made apparently was X-Men: Destiny back in 2011.

Edit: Dammit, @MrMan999: Ninja'd me! >.<
 

PinkiePyro

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MrMan999 said:
Dragonbums said:
chickenhound said:
MrMan999 said:
chickenhound said:
Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
Well they did publish Eternal Darkness. Which was a horror game with its fair share of gore.

yea they did make Eternal Darkness But you forget it had/has a planned sequel that Nintendo put in development limbo
It's not like they can do anything about that now considering how Microsoft owns the rights to all of Rare's IP's barring Donkey Kong since that was commissioned from Nintendo.
Um, Eternal Darkness was not Rare. It was Silicon Knights. Also Nintendo wholly owns the Eternal Darkness IP. I think you're thinking of Perfect Dark.
and they just keep sitting on it ;_; the history is yeah we're making it.. no wait we're moving it the wii.. we still making it...no wait its cancelled ...but we still refuse to cough the rights up because we are dicks no wait its back .. oh no its not

the unborn sequel to eternal darkness is called Shadow of the Eternals btw
 

Dragonbums

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chickenhound said:
MrMan999 said:
Dragonbums said:
chickenhound said:
MrMan999 said:
chickenhound said:
Nintendo has always been rather old fashioned and anti any thing that could be controversial (horror games,blood, etc)so its its not surprising they are not keen on adding same sex marriages
Well they did publish Eternal Darkness. Which was a horror game with its fair share of gore.

yea they did make Eternal Darkness But you forget it had/has a planned sequel that Nintendo put in development limbo
It's not like they can do anything about that now considering how Microsoft owns the rights to all of Rare's IP's barring Donkey Kong since that was commissioned from Nintendo.
Um, Eternal Darkness was not Rare. It was Silicon Knights. Also Nintendo wholly owns the Eternal Darkness IP. I think you're thinking of Perfect Dark.
and they just keep sitting on it ;_; the history is yeah we're making it.. no wait we're moving it the wii.. we still making it...no wait its cancelled ...but we still refuse to cough the rights up because we are dicks no wait its back .. oh no its not

the unborn sequel to eternal darkness is called Shadow of the Eternals btw

I wasn't aware there was a really high demand for this game. Your also gonna need to provide some links of them saying this. Because as far as I'm concerned they cannot do anything with an IP that now belongs to another company.
 

PinkiePyro

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Dragonbums said:
I wasn't aware there was a really high demand for this game. Your also gonna need to provide some links of them saying this. Because as far as I'm concerned they cannot do anything with an IP that now belongs to another company.
read about it yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Darkness:_Sanity's_Requiem#Canceled_sequel

the saddest bit is even if Nintendo never produces a sequil no one can make a spirtral successor as part of what made the game great is the way the sanity meter worked and no one can reproduce that as its patented by Nintendo
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Dragonbums said:
I wasn't aware there was a really high demand for this game. Your also gonna need to provide some links of them saying this. Because as far as I'm concerned they cannot do anything with an IP that now belongs to another company.
I think Eternal Darkness DOES belong to Nintendo, but considering that the Shadow of the Eternals' crowdfunding attempt was a flop not just once but twice it seems like the demand for the IP isn't THAT high.