Tomadachi Life Conspiracy: Because Nintendo Just can't catch a break these days

BarkBarker

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ReservoirAngel said:
ProfMcStevie said:
Just an odd note, but isn't it wrong to have the CHOICE of being gay seen as it isn't, or being able to romance whoever you wish in a game? I also think there is no way to win these sort of situations, let them be gay and you get "its just like being hetero, you just skinned it essentially!", make it special and you get "why are gays not treated equally!" there is no right answer. I think that it should reflect the real world, and that most of the world is straight, some people are gay, and some are bisexual. There, all games are JUST life the real world, if you have problems then tell that to life itself, you are being fully represented, pat yourself on the back!
Speaking as one of the gays, being gay IS essentially the same thing as being heterosexual. The only real tangible, measurable difference is the specifics of the genitals involved in the sex and since I doubt a Nintendo game like this will feature interactive sex scenes, I doubt anyone's going to be screaming that first hypothetical all that much.
Well then there you go, the only measurable detail is one that has never been shown in a video game (to my knowledge), and with the fact that miis are wholesomely customizable regardless of gender with the only gender defined point being either red or blue, I think that is pretty alright for what so many claim is a "bigoted homophobe". Of course the whole marrying aspect and having kids is gonna be different for gays, a lot of the world isn't okay with gay marriage, does the game really bother going so deep as to establish civil partnerships when it is clearly just a humorous simulator? The aspects of marriage are layed on a foundation of trading people for goods after all, I think it'd be rather nice to have a whole different way to do it that works in the same aspects of marriage but is purely about the bonding of two people who love each other.
 

Zeraki

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Barbas said:
Honestly, I wonder where some people find the staggering reserves of energy to be as angry as they are. It's not sustainable.
I've often wondered that myself. I barely have enough energy to force myself out of bed in the morning, yet somehow these people can rage for seemingly months on end about something that happened in a video game.

I get mad about something and get over it five minutes later... being angry is exhausting.
 

Dragonbums

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weirdo8977 said:
Anthony Corrigan said:
weirdo8977 said:
apparently this happened some hours ago
From an ethical standpoint its nice to see but from a gaming viewpoint, after looking at the sort of game changes Blizzard (for example but most game publishers) make to there games constantly, I find this amazing, that they are unable to produce a patch which would fix this
when was the last time they ever did a patch? I don't predict them doing one any time soon
It's rare that they do patches because their games hardly need fixing anyway...you know...since they actually take their time to debug games.

To answer the question though last time they patched a game was in Pokemon X and Y where there was a save glitch in Luminous City that would delete the players files.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Dragonbums said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Yeah not buying the Bug of Yucca Flats story.
I'm sorry you like to deny facts.
I'm sorry you confuse press spins for facts.

They didn't actively make the decision to not include same sex couples for the purpose of not including same sex couples. It just never occured to them that that would be a big fucking deal to them. Especially when they are in a country where it is illegal to marry same sex couples in Japan.
But since none of you guys have any perception of context you wouldn't understand why that would serve as an issue for Nintendo. Especially considering that this game was NEVER INTENDED FOR AN AMERICAN AUDIENCE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Meaning that this game was meant for Japan and Japan only. We are getting their fucking port.
Hey, it's illegal to marry same sex couples in over half of US states. Most of the USA is as conservative when it comes to same-sex marriage as Japan, but it's drawing criticism anyway. What's the point of saying "it was never intended for an American audience"? They decided to sell it there, they have to deal with it. A game that ostensibly lets everyone live their life with "their drama" but goes on to exclude a sizeable chunk of the population is kind of duplicitous.

In this particular installment of the game you aren't entitled to a single fucking them from them.
A single fucking what from who now?

Literally has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Nor does it have any relation on Nintendo's stance on gay marriage. Stay on topic.
I'm staying very much on topic by illustrating that just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they're not going to do it, but thank you for your concern about me getting a warning!
 

Dragonbums

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Silvanus said:
the hidden eagle said:
People asking for equal treatment don't have to be polite,they can be agressive but when it gets to the point where people who would normally be on your side if a group was'nt attacking them,then it's better to dial it back from time to time.As for the other issues you bring up....people don't go into a froth mouthed frenzy over always on DRM or micrtrasactions because it just give the company and their supporters ammunition to dismiss every complaint against them.
But... people do get really assertive about those issues, and people don't bat an eyelid.

As I said, I'm well aware of the practicalities. I was criticising the double-standard. Other people get to indulge in the same behaviour, free of criticism.
Those people have been criticized. Look at the amount of people now that scream "feminazis" whenever one woman or a group advocates for equal representation of sex in videogames? The few extremists who we let run their mouths about bullshit have greatly damaged the view of what people think feminism is all about man hating?
 

Dragonbums

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Johnny Novgorod said:
I'm sorry you confuse press spins for facts.
What's the spin then? Tell me. I would like to know why Nintendo has any reason to lie about a patch they did in Japan a year ago in some weird sort of psychic way knowing that this was going to cause them problems to an American audience.

Hey, it's illegal to marry same sex couples in over half of US states.
And it's illegal to marry gay couples in all of Japan.




What's the point of saying "it was never intended for an American audience"? They decided to sell it there, they have to deal with it.
Because after recent financial reports Iwata earlier this year declared that they will try to expand to different markets with games that they considered too "Japanese". Tomodachi Life is one of them. It's a one year old game that came out in early 2013 and they decided to make a port.
It's absurd to actually demand that Nintendo pull the original dev team off of other intense deadlines projects to recode the game from the ground up to appease to a section of over zealous fanatics who don't know when someone is being neutral and someone is being the enemy with little to no garauntee that doing such would prove beneficial to them money wise in the long run.



A game that ostensibly lets everyone live their life with "their drama" but goes on to exclude a sizeable chunk of the population is kind of duplicitous.
I'm sorry but homosexuality is not a sizeable chunk of the population. It's just not. They didn't exclude it. They just didn't consider putting that in the game. There is a big difference there. It was meant for Japan only. Nintendo are in no way a political crusader machine. Implementing gay marriage in a game within a country where such an act is illegal everywhere is asking for political trouble. This is something I noticed we Westerners like to do. A lot actually. We point fingers at other countries and call them the bad guys for doing things we don't think is right with zero consideration for why said country/foreign entity does it nor the consequences of them doing it. It's always about US and how WE feel. Not once have I heard the other side of this debate actually acknowledge the very real blowback that would happen to Nintendo if they were to implement gay marriage in this game from the get go in Japan. Not once. Because it's always about America. Everyone else can rot in hell. And people want to wonder why the rest of the world can't stand us.

I'm staying very much on topic by illustrating that just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they're not going to do it,
Mario is a franchise. Gay marriage in a specific videogame is a feature. Your comparing apples to oranges.



but thank you for your concern about me getting a warning!
When did I ever say you were on the verge of getting a warning from the mods?
 

Something Amyss

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Strain42 said:
RatherDull did on another post.
You know, I already addressed that post. And more specifically, said it didn't in itself qualify.

Trying to show me evidence I don't accept is pointless. Especially if you're going to assert it's "almost" the same or something similar.

EDIT: And yes, you are "part of the problem," but that doesn't mean you're "against us." Apathy on the matter is still an issue and still an obstacle and it's still harmful. But to pre-emptively call me out for "badmouthing" is absurd. Don't do it.
 

Dragonbums

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Dragonbums said:
Does it? I have already stated examples from games that came out AFTER Tomodachi life.
You're yet to sufficiently explain how this proves your assurance that they're fine with gay people.

Since that's what I was talking about, your responses have done little to qualify as anything but tangents.
So I'm guessing your either picking and choosing which examples you want to count as legitimate or you missed the numerous times I and many others have listed ranging from Birdo to the Beauty trainer in Pokemon X and Y of examples of Nintendo implementing non offensive LGBTQ characters into their game with no problems either from their respective fans or Japan in general.
 

Barbas

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Tank207 said:
Barbas said:
...Honestly, I wonder where some people find the staggering reserves of energy to be as angry as they are. It's not sustainable.
I've often wondered that myself. I barely have enough energy to force myself out of bed in the morning, yet somehow these people can rage for seemingly months on end about something that happened in a video game.

I get mad about something and get over it five minutes later... being angry is exhausting.
Maybe it happens over such a long time - years, even - that people just don't notice until they've sunk into it and become used to it. After holding it for so long, I suppose they're in danger of having it become a fundamental part of them.


Cheesy, maybe, but I believe him and it's words like that that help me remain calm. There are issues that are naturally important to some people, but an angry person doesn't say or do sensible things. At best, their actions are folly; at worst, disastrous.
 

Silvanus

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Dragonbums said:
Those people have been criticized. Look at the amount of people now that scream "feminazis" whenever one woman or a group advocates for equal representation of sex in videogames? The few extremists who we let run their mouths about bullshit have greatly damaged the view of what people think feminism is all about man hating?
It can happen; I'd also say that, more often than not, the fault lies more with those who scream "feminazi" than the feminists themselves. Those who moan about "feminazis" are usually more vocal, more aggressive, and more dismissive than those they are criticising, and I believe the same is true of many who are criticising the tone of Nintendo's detractors here.
 

Strain42

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Strain42 said:
RatherDull did on another post.
EDIT: And yes, you are "part of the problem," but that doesn't mean you're "against us." Apathy on the matter is still an issue and still an obstacle and it's still harmful. But to pre-emptively call me out for "badmouthing" is absurd. Don't do it.
A. I never said I'd be badmouthed by you specifically. I was speaking in a general sense. Now whose misinterpreting posts?

B. Even if we were to assume I was talking about you specifically, you did just say I was part of the problem, when you know absolutely nothing about me, my stance, or my actions regarding the issues, which could quite easily be taken as badmouthing. But I forgive you. Misunderstandings happen, no point in dwelling on them.

I show nothing but support for the LGBTQ community. I have many gay friends, I have gay family, I support them. I have attended meetings, provided counseling, signed petitions, cast actual government votes and even given money in support of this.

But I still eat the occasional Chik-Fil-A because I'm a fat guy and enjoy waffle fries, I still use Firefox because it's user friendly and the fastest running browser on my laptop, and for both of these things, I have been called an insensitive homophobic jackass who is just as bad as the people who are voting against these rights and beating people up for their sexual preferences.

So yes, I admit that when something like this comes up and I see people like RatherDull saying stuff like that which feels like it implies (even if it's not the intention) that if I don't start completely boycotting Nintendo over these events that I'm some sort of bigot, I tend to roll my eyes a bit.

With this Nintendo thing though it wasn't done out of any malice. It was an oversight, and Nintendo could have admittedly handled it a bit better, I admit that. I'm not gonna stand here with a flame shield up against Nintendo and say they've done no wrong, but I'm gonna go with the assumption that when developing romance options for Tomodachi Life back when nobody could even fathom that it would be localized here that the designers were going "Gay relationships? Not in OUR game! This oughta make our position clear to the Western market!"

The point is if I or anyone else continue to enjoy my 3DS and go pick up a copy of Kirby Triple Deluxe this week, it doesn't put us in some sort of Anti-LGBTQ camp where we actively hold back progress (and to avoid another misunderstanding, I'm not saying that you are implying this. Again, speaking generally)

That's my stance on it anyways. If you disagree with me, that's fine. We'll stand on different parts of the field. Someone reading this could already think I'm a bigot because I'm typing this message in Firefox. That's fine. People can think of me how they like. I know who I am, and I know I support the community. I won't be swayed though by someone telling me I'm supporting it wrong, just as I don't expect this post to sway anyone who might be reading it into anything.
 

Something Amyss

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anthony87 said:
So your response is "That's not what was said" even though that's what was said?

Yeah. Okay.
Except it wasn't what was said, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
 

Something Amyss

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Dragonbums said:
So I'm guessing your either picking and choosing which examples you want to count as legitimate or you missed the numerous times I and many others have listed ranging from Birdo to the Beauty trainer in Pokemon X and Y of examples of Nintendo implementing non offensive LGBTQ characters into their game with no problems either from their respective fans or Japan in general.
No, you're assuming out of convenience.

I have actually addressed those characters before, by the way. I'm assuming you're also "picking and choosing" which of my posts to acknowledge out of convenience. You happened to choose an intentionally glib one rather than a serious address of the subject.

But you still haven't explained how that proves your assurance they're fine with gay people.

Saint Ganondorf said:
I'd agree it's hard to say. I suppose we'll just have to wait to see if it gets modded in. Which I'd bet on.
I agree. I'd be rather surprised to not see a mod. But it could happen.

Strain42 said:
A. I never said I'd be badmouthed by you specifically. I was speaking in a general sense. Now whose misinterpreting posts?
Yes, your use of quotes in a direct response leaves up so much for interpretation. If I misinterpreted, it was a communication error on your end.

B. Even if we were to assume I was talking about you specifically, you did just say I was part of the problem, when you know absolutely nothing about me, my stance, or my actions regarding the issues, which could quite easily be taken as badmouthing. But I forgive you. Misunderstandings happen, no point in dwelling on them.
Well, if you want to take personal offense at a fact, I'm powerless to stop you. Doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

I show nothing but support for the LGBTQ community. I have many gay friends, I have gay family, I support them. I have attended meetings, provided counseling, signed petitions, cast actual government votes and even given money in support of this.
You realise the Archie Bunker justification of "I have X friends" holds no water, right? I neither care nor can I verify your glorious pro-gay stance.

So yes, I admit that when something like this comes up and I see people like RatherDull saying stuff like that which somehow implies that if I don't start completely boycotting Nintendo over these events that I'm some sort of bigot, I tend to roll my eyes a bit.
Apparently, you do more than that. You read offense and then go out of your way to justify yourself.

With this Nintendo thing though it wasn't done out of any malice.
Proof, please. I imagine it'd be harder than proving how awesomely pro-gay you are.

It was an oversight, and Nintendo could have admittedly handled it a bit better, I admit that. I'm not gonna stand here with a flame shield up against Nintendo and say they've done no wrong, but I'm gonna go with the assumption that when developing romance options for Tomodachi Life back when nobody could even fathom that it would be localized here that the designers were going "Gay relationships? Not in OUR game! This oughta make our position clear to the Western market!"
Has anyone claimed that?

The point is if I or anyone else continue to enjoy my 3DS and go pick up a copy of Kirby Triple Deluxe this week, it doesn't put us in some sort of Anti-LGBTQ camp where we actively hold back progress (and to avoid another misunderstanding, I'm not saying that you are implying this. Again, speaking generally)
You sure are bringing up a lot of things you're "not saying." I'm not saying there is some intent to this....

That's my stance on it anyways. If you disagree with me, that's fine. We'll stand on different parts of the field. Someone

People can think of me how they like.
I agree. And if you're going to spend more time justifying how you're totally not part of the problem rather than not being part of the problem, I can think that you're part of the problem. Even if you're in no way anti-gay, because being part of the problem and opposing homosexuality are not the same thing (inherently, anyway).

Here, let's try this again: all US currency is money. All money is not US currency. All Christians are theists. Not all Christians are theists. And all anti-gays are part of the problem. But not all people who are part of the problem are anti-gay.

I won't be swayed though by someone telling me I'm supporting it wrong, just as I don't expect this post to sway anyone who might be reading it into anything.
Well, that's nice, but I doubt anyone was out to convince you. I know, I know, you didn't say that. You're just randomly bringing up these things of absolutely no relevance because....

...No, why are you doing that again? See, most of the time, when we communicate things, there are contextual links. If I were to believe you, your response was instead a loose collection of disparate ideas of no relevance.
 

Dragonbums

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Zachary Amaranth said:
But you still haven't explained how that proves your assurance they're fine with gay people.
I didn't expect this needed explaining at all. If a company is willing to insert transgender and gay characters along with allowing players to dress up and customize themselves however they want regardless of whether or not they are a boy or a girl within their most popular franchises like Animal Crossing, I don't think you would need a a moral guruu to tell you that Nintendo are in favor of gay people in general and have zero issues including them in their games regardless of visibility.
 

wulf3n

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Zachary Amaranth said:
EDIT: And yes, you are "part of the problem," but that doesn't mean you're "against us." Apathy on the matter is still an issue and still an obstacle and it's still harmful. But to pre-emptively call me out for "badmouthing" is absurd. Don't do it.
Wow... that's not only semantically fallacious it's logically absurd.

The only thing people who aren't with you are... is not with you. Apathy is not an obstacle, if everyone but you was apathetic about a cause you'd have no trouble doing anything. Raise a point to the hailed response "meh, do whatever I don't care."
 

Strain42

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Zachary Amaranth said:
your response was instead a loose collection of disparate ideas of no relevance.
Pretty much, yeah. I'm glad we could finally reach this understanding.

Have a lovely day.