Tomadachi Life Conspiracy: Because Nintendo Just can't catch a break these days

hazydawn

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xaszatm said:
Instead of doing what we are supposed to be doing, getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding, here we stand blindly attacking anyone we perceive to be wrong due to an its Us against Them mentality.
Getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You sure you didn't forget love, affection, friendship, motherly care perhaps?
Seems to me you're trying to silence any valid criticsim by saying it's not productive.
 

The Lunatic

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Jun 3, 2010
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It's interesting to see that a company is completely absolved of wrong doing, when that company is Nintendo.

Can you imagine the shit if Sony or Microsoft did this?

Guys, I get it, Nintendo made some of your favourite games when you were kids. But, nostalgia is just that, it's in the past. Look at the company objectively today and drop the idea that you owe them leniency due to some games they made 14 years ago.
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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The Lunatic said:
It's interesting to see that a company is completely absolved of wrong doing, when that company is Nintendo.

Can you imagine the shit if Sony or Microsoft did this?

Guys, I get it, Nintendo made some of your favourite games when you were kids. But, nostalgia is just that, it's in the past. Look at the company objectively today and drop the idea that you owe them leniency due to some games they made 14 years ago.
Absolved? No.

They have Birdo. A character that in the Japanese gaming manual was officially male but dressed and acted like a female. They have two Animal Crossing characters that in the Japanese version are considered Queer/Transgendered and were very prominent NPC's in the fucking game. They had a Lesbian romance option in FE: Radiant Dawn and in Pokemon X and Y you can battle a Beauty trainer that stated that she used to be a man, but with the wonders of modern medicine can actually be a woman.


The Tomodachi life incident revolved around a bug that allowed gay couples. HOWEVER said bug also corrupted files and crashed the game so they fixed it for the game breaking part of the bug. Not the gay relationship part of the bug. That was over a year ago, and since then it is highly likely that the staff who made this game are working on other very important projects and aren't going to take time off those to fix a one year old game for an unproven market. They said they weren't going to add gay couples to this installment of the game. They didn't say fuck all about not putting them in future installments of the game.

This is a classic example of misinformation and ignorance spiraling out of fucking control.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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hazydawn said:
xaszatm said:
Instead of doing what we are supposed to be doing, getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding, here we stand blindly attacking anyone we perceive to be wrong due to an its Us against Them mentality.
Getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You sure you didn't forget love, affection, friendship, motherly care perhaps?
Seems to me you're trying to silence any valid criticsim by saying it's not productive.
If I was trying to silence him, I'd have gone to the mods to see if he could be banned. Also, cynicism is not reality, take from a guy who took forever to realize this. Do you have anything important to add to this discussion, or is blindly attacking and mocking the only thing you are capable of?
 

StriderShinryu

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I think all this really shows is, once again, that Nintendo is just largely out of touch with where gaming (and maybe other things) are right now. I don't think it's anything targeted by Nintendo, it's just them being clueless.
 

Rebel_Raven

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Last I heard it wasn't because of the gay relationships that they were removed, it was a memory leak. I'm sure PC users know that memory leaks suck. It just happened that the removal of gay relationships were removed along with.

Yeah, I'm disappointed my Mii won't be hitting up Samus, or something, but I'm kinda willing to give them time. Maybe they'll release an LGBT patch to come countries?

Yeah, it sucks very much to be swept aside, ignored, marginalized, and generally screwed over by the gaming industry over, and over, and frikking over again with few rays of hope. There's not a damn thing people can say to really help it suck less since the wound actually needs to heal.
 

hazydawn

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xaszatm said:
If I was trying to silence him, I'd have gone to the mods to see if he could be banned. Also, cynicism is not reality, take from a guy who took forever to realize this. Do you have anything important to add to this discussion, or is blindly attacking and mocking the only thing you are capable of?
I view my cynical perspective of your position as a valid addition to this discussion.
My attack and mockery was not blind because I clearly pointed it at what I perceive as naivete in your thinking.
You seem to label anything that goes stongly against your position as unimportant or not contributing to the discussion. That is to me silencing people.

Dragonbums said:
Absolved? No.

They have Birdo. A character that in the Japanese gaming manual was officially male but dressed and acted like a female. They have two Animal Crossing characters that in the Japanese version are considered Queer/Transgendered and were very prominent NPC's in the fucking game. They had a Lesbian romance option in FE: Radiant Dawn and in Pokemon X and Y you can battle a Beauty trainer that stated that she used to be a man, but with the wonders of modern medicine can actually be a woman.
Wikipedia said:
Since the character's North American introduction, Birdo's gender has been an issue of discussion and speculation. The Japanese manual states the character's name is "Catherine", but it would rather be known as "Cassie." However, in the first edition manual for the North American release of Super Mario Bros. 2, Birdo is referred to as a male who believes he is female and would rather be called "Birdetta". In later printings, the second sentence was omitted, and no mention of Birdo being male was included in most later games featuring the character. In the Japanese version of Super Smash Bros. Melee, Birdo, called Catherine, is described similarly to the original manual, though wanting to be called "Cathy". In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it is said that Birdo is of "indeterminate gender".
And what also? Two Animal Crossing NPCs? Well, woopty fucking doo.
Admitteldy those examples are a step in the right direction and the Pokemon one is kinda impressive but not including the option of same sex relationships in a game that revolves around relationships sends a far stronger messenge then those trivial characters.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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hazydawn said:
xaszatm said:
If I was trying to silence him, I'd have gone to the mods to see if he could be banned. Also, cynicism is not reality, take from a guy who took forever to realize this. Do you have anything important to add to this discussion, or is blindly attacking and mocking the only thing you are capable of?
I view my cynical perspective of your position as a valid addition to this discussion.
My attack and mockery was not blind because I clearly pointed it at what I perceive as naivete in your thinking.
You seem to label anything that goes stongly against your position as unimportant or not contributing to the discussion. That is to me silencing people.
Except none of his points were direct "threats" to my arguement. My arguement was that the LGBQT community took this matter out of hand. I'm not against Nintendo putting homosexual relationships into Tomadachi Life, I merely understand why they won't. Hell, I'm on the Miiquality guy's side. It's why I made this topic to begin with. I found that his original message was being drowned out by the more fringe members of the LGBQT community. The person I was arguing with's arguement, that coding homosexual relationships into the game would be easy to fix, was something I disagreed with. I started saying that he didn't have a point when he kept hitting on how easy the coding could be without any proof.

Now, do you have any more points?

EDIT: Changed my sentence so it was more clear.
 

MoeMints

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Honestly sounds more like melodramatic yellow journalism using the "Progress" angle AGAIN to me that will be completely irreverent for the next OH MY GOD, THIS DEV IS HORRIBLE a few months later.
Only to actually make the game more popular and make those who were actually interested but troubled hate people on their side more.

Just like Dragon's Crown.
Just like the fighting game event before SFxT's release.
Just like Bioware games having homosexual relationships (though the problem there is that all they do in the end is make everyone a bisexual deviant. With the writing being awful )


In fact, I'm not even sure if people actually read up on the actual campaign. Its supposed to be a probable patch and a peaceful petition. Heck, people said they were going to buy the game anyway.

All this drama amounts to is a verbal crusade, being actually the EXACT POINT why no one wants to get involved with this mess.
 

clippen05

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Eve Charm said:
Hmm well it's not like this is "just a japan issue" whats it still like 80% of the world that same sex marriage isn't accepted or acknowledged still, Can't blame one country for being behind the ball.
Well considering Japan is a westernized, modern democracy, they are quite responsible for being behind the times. Almost all of the countries recognized as 'Very Highly developed' by the U.N. human development index have some form of same-sex marriage. Japan isn't some war-torn African nation, Totalitarian country like the Russian Federation or China or Muslim Fundamentalist state, the are a Western Democracy.
 

hazydawn

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xaszatm said:
Except none of his points were direct "threats" to my arguement. My arguement was that the LGBQT community took this matter out of hand. I'm not against Nintendo putting homosexual relationships into Tomadachi Life, I merely understand why they won't. Hell, I'm on the Miiquality guy's side. It's why I made this topic to begin with. I found that his original message was being drowned out by the more fringe members of the LGBQT community. His arguement, that coding homosexual relationships into the game would be easy to fix, was something I disagreed with. I started saying that he didn't have a point when he kept hitting on how easy the coding could be without any proof.

Now, do you have any more points?
My point was from the beginning targeted on your notion that complaining is taking this out of hand.
"getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding"
Particularly this.
Imo they should have included this a year ago when this game came out. Not showing any signs of change and reason after people call attention to a problem isn't making it better.
Nintendo's response is very problematic. So even if they decided to not include it from a business perspective, they didn't mention it and I don't care if that was their reason. Because this issue is important to me I say fuck Nintendo. Not enough to boycott them but if they keep on going this path I would.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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hazydawn said:
xaszatm said:
Except none of his points were direct "threats" to my arguement. My arguement was that the LGBQT community took this matter out of hand. I'm not against Nintendo putting homosexual relationships into Tomadachi Life, I merely understand why they won't. Hell, I'm on the Miiquality guy's side. It's why I made this topic to begin with. I found that his original message was being drowned out by the more fringe members of the LGBQT community. His arguement, that coding homosexual relationships into the game would be easy to fix, was something I disagreed with. I started saying that he didn't have a point when he kept hitting on how easy the coding could be without any proof.

Now, do you have any more points?
My point was from the beginning targeted on your notion that complaining is taking this out of hand.
"getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding"
Particularly this.
Imo they should have included this a year ago when this game came out. Not showing any signs of change and reason after people call attention to a problem isn't making it better.
Nintendo's response is very problematic. So even if they decided to not include it from a business perspective, they didn't mention it and I don't care if that was their reason. Because this issue is important to me I say fuck Nintendo. Not enough to boycott them but if they keep on going this path I would.
And I agree with you. I do think that Nintendo has handled this situation poorly as well, during the first few months when it came out. They could have at least attempted to see if they could have changed it back then but they didn't. And that is a mistake on Nintendo's part. But asking for that change now, over a year later with the original team on other projects, is slightly unrealistic. Something Miiqualty understood, as his main goal was to increase awareness to hopefully change this in either this game or the next one. In this scenario, I do see Nintendo in the wrong, and I applauded Miiquailty for raising awareness towards this problem so NoA could hear about it, which they did.

The issue of this topic however comes not at that situation but at the loads of articles that screamed "Nintendo says No to Homosexuality" or "Nintendo attacks innocent protestor over homosexuality" (yes, those are actual articles). These articles twisted the truth to make it look like Nintendo was a moustache twirling villain and convinced many people to swear off Nintendo forever, the exact opposite effect Miiquality wanted. People have the right to complain about Tomadachi's lack of homosexual relationships, no question. The Miiquality is an example of complaining, after all. But to twist the wording serves no purpose but to hurt both sides. It lessens the chances of Tomadachi to ever have homosexual relationships and lowers the opinion of everyone who saw this event in more clear eyes.

But yes, I do agree that Nintendo's orignal developers have handled this situation poorly since the first game out in 2008.
 

Bombiz

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hazydawn said:
xaszatm said:
Except none of his points were direct "threats" to my arguement. My arguement was that the LGBQT community took this matter out of hand. I'm not against Nintendo putting homosexual relationships into Tomadachi Life, I merely understand why they won't. Hell, I'm on the Miiquality guy's side. It's why I made this topic to begin with. I found that his original message was being drowned out by the more fringe members of the LGBQT community. His arguement, that coding homosexual relationships into the game would be easy to fix, was something I disagreed with. I started saying that he didn't have a point when he kept hitting on how easy the coding could be without any proof.

Now, do you have any more points?
My point was from the beginning targeted on your notion that complaining is taking this out of hand.
"getting someone on the right path via knowledge and understanding"
Particularly this.
Imo they should have included this a year ago when this game came out. Not showing any signs of change and reason after people call attention to a problem isn't making it better.
Nintendo's response is very problematic. So even if they decided to not include it from a business perspective, they didn't mention it and I don't care if that was their reason. Because this issue is important to me I say fuck Nintendo. Not enough to boycott them but if they keep on going this path I would.
considering how Nintendo likes to keep to tradition I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon.
 

hazydawn

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xaszatm said:
And I agree with you. I do think that Nintendo has handled this situation poorly as well, during the first few months when it came out. They could have at least attempted to see if they could have changed it back then but they didn't. And that is a mistake on Nintendo's part. But asking for that change now, over a year later with the original team on other projects, is slightly unrealistic. Something Miiqualty understood, as his main goal was to increase awareness to hopefully change this in either this game or the next one. In this scenario, I do see Nintendo in the wrong, and I applauded Miiquailty for raising awareness towards this problem so NoA could hear about it, which they did.

The issue of this topic however comes not at that situation but at the loads of articles that screamed "Nintendo says No to Homosexuality" or "Nintendo attacks innocent protestor over homosexuality" (yes, those are actual articles). These articles twisted the truth to make it look like Nintendo was a moustache twirling villain and convinced many people to swear off Nintendo forever, the exact opposite effect Miiquality wanted. People have the right to complain about Tomadachi's lack of homosexual relationships, no question. The Miiquality is an example of complaining, after all. But to twist the wording serves no purpose but to hurt both sides. It lessens the chances of Tomadachi to ever have homosexual relationships and lowers the opinion of everyone who saw this event in more clear eyes.

But yes, I do agree that Nintendo's orignal developers have handled this situation poorly since the first game out in 2008.
Well, would you look at that. We came to a conclusion we both agree on and perhaps mutual understanding. Crazy...
Though, there are probably still things, I won't go into detail now, you'd disagree with me.
Seems to me no gaming company has any spokesperson with remotely diplomatic or political persuasion skills. Like I said I think the response they gave is very problematic but it also practically asks to be blown out of proportion. With better phrasing and showing some good will they could have avoided all of this. But perhaps they didn't want to give any hope for the future and that also infuriates some of us.

weirdo8977 said:
considering how Nintendo likes to keep to tradition I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon.
Yep, that's the main reason why I'm so pissed at them. Not because they've made a mistake in the past, not because theymaybe don't want to spend resources on a year old game but because I don't see any realization on their part.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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hazydawn said:
xaszatm said:
And I agree with you. I do think that Nintendo has handled this situation poorly as well, during the first few months when it came out. They could have at least attempted to see if they could have changed it back then but they didn't. And that is a mistake on Nintendo's part. But asking for that change now, over a year later with the original team on other projects, is slightly unrealistic. Something Miiqualty understood, as his main goal was to increase awareness to hopefully change this in either this game or the next one. In this scenario, I do see Nintendo in the wrong, and I applauded Miiquailty for raising awareness towards this problem so NoA could hear about it, which they did.

The issue of this topic however comes not at that situation but at the loads of articles that screamed "Nintendo says No to Homosexuality" or "Nintendo attacks innocent protestor over homosexuality" (yes, those are actual articles). These articles twisted the truth to make it look like Nintendo was a moustache twirling villain and convinced many people to swear off Nintendo forever, the exact opposite effect Miiquality wanted. People have the right to complain about Tomadachi's lack of homosexual relationships, no question. The Miiquality is an example of complaining, after all. But to twist the wording serves no purpose but to hurt both sides. It lessens the chances of Tomadachi to ever have homosexual relationships and lowers the opinion of everyone who saw this event in more clear eyes.

But yes, I do agree that Nintendo's orignal developers have handled this situation poorly since the first game out in 2008.
Well, would you look at that. We came to a conclusion we both agree on and perhaps mutual understanding. Crazy...
Though, there are probably still things, I won't go into detail now, you'd disagree with me.
Seems to me no gaming company has any spokesperson with remotely diplomatic or political persuasion skills. Like I said I think the response they gave is very problematic but it also practically asks to be blown out of proportion. With better phrasing and showing some good will they could have avoided all of this. But perhaps they didn't want to give any hope for the future and that also infuriates some of us.

weirdo8977 said:
considering how Nintendo likes to keep to tradition I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon.
Yep, that's the main reason why I'm so pissed at them. Not because they've made a mistake in the past, not because theymaybe don't want to spend resources on a year old game but because I don't see any realization on their part.
What, we came to an understanding that, despite being on different sides, acknowldge the others point? No, this cannot be! Uh...You fight like a cow!

To be more frank I think the real reason why NoA responded how they did was because they didn't want to force any promises onto NoJ. While I do understand NoA's lack of desire to anger their masters, it is still disappointing that they didn't respond in the way that was satisfactory.
 

Bombiz

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hazydawn said:
weirdo8977 said:
considering how Nintendo likes to keep to tradition I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon.
Yep, that's the main reason why I'm so pissed at them. Not because they've made a mistake in the past, not because theymaybe don't want to spend resources on a year old game but because I don't see any realization on their part.
They barley change the games they release every year. I don't see why they would change there stance on anything else.
 

Darmani

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Dragonbums said:
I mean, that's been a complaint for quite a while with the series while it was still a Japanese only game. Look guys I'm all for LGBTQ+ rights as well but Nintendo cannot be on the forefront of that. They are a family demographic company and a lot of families don't want children to be exposed to those things. It's risking a lot. I'm very fucking sure they have nothing against gay people. But to take it as them hating guys is really stretching the logic here. Honestly I'd expect Sony and Microsoft to do that first.
But there are gay families. Gay doesn't mean "porn" or "sexual active" that's just sadly the most 'accepted' context we're often highlighted in. Just having it as an option isn't terrible in this instance (Bioware and their relationship strangulation I'm all for being trepidatious about)

I'm...oddly not as torn on this, admittedly not into Tamodachi life. At the same time I can understand the fear on both sides, they are taking a series with high competition (mobile simulation) with their family appeal that is expensive. but the ads have been very "romance" upfront not just friendships or mundane life. at the same time if gay people were in this there would be accusations of them making all gay characters clowns. I want the option, it fits into the game, it isn't stupid.

I just think there is a POLITE and appealing way to request it. A way of saying

"hey, Nintendo, I'm your customer. You've provided years of fun entertainment and your products are first in my options for electronics. You are making a fun game about activities and relationships of people in fun town. I and some of my friends are gay, lesbian, transgendered, or queer. You are providing MANY options for expression or just exploring fun things for simulation of us to do. We go shopping, drinking, to concerts, or any of the OTHER activities. I would like to also have the option of dating and coupling up, not being excluded from having our own three guys on a beach scene. We can be the unpicked losers and commiserate in a bar later. I don't consider its absence an attack. Rather I want you to make a better more inclusive product that serves and entertains me as a customer and spreads the theme of interaction, fun, and joy that is a part of this series. I want to feel I'm friend in your nintendo community. That I am able to express myself in it, responsibly and happily, like you have with art and miis. Please consider providing these options or supporting how to make them a possibility and not leave them aside. I mean wacky as the island is if you still want to include the child making there is adoption options or going to some made scientist character to splice or include a shopping for a surrogate, which I feel all can add to the atmosphere and interrelations as the appeal and engagement of Tamodachi Life.

Are you concerned about the loss of appeal? What number of fans who support having the same-sex and similar options added committing to support the project with dollars would inspire confidence in seeing it being included and distributed? Would you like to do a drive fund? Set up pre-orders? I want to convince you that doing this won't lose you goodwill and customers but serve an audience who supports you and wants this not just now but in the future. Please consider."
 

Darmani

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Dragonbums said:
Church185 said:
I don't think Nintendo are being intentionally anti-LGBT when it comes to Tomodachi Life. I do however think they could have addressed the issue differently.
They could of. And like I stated earlier it seems that on the Japanese side this was heavily criticized. Since then Nintendo made efforts to be a lot more inclusive of LGBTQ+ people. Getting angry about Nintendo about it now is pointless. It's especially jarring when those claiming that Nintendo are backwards and exclusive of LGBTQ+ people seemingly ignore all the recent things they have done in regards to expressing them. One of the major ones being in Pokemon X and Y you can battle a post sex change operated trainer and in Animal Crossing two of the main NPC's respectively are either queer or transgendered.
I support getting angry. I support it then being refined into positive action. Sending your complaints is good. but like a recent counselor suggested. Don't bring problems. Bring solutions. Understand the obligations of who you're speaking to. Will morally condemning a company, one that may not even care about your moral standards as ya know making money and expressing themselves are their only really "needs" and metrics for excellence, work as much as offering a profitable moral action or an offer of assurance? Show that
"I am a Nintendo customer and I want this in your game and would gladly support it and find you awesome for doing so" Because I think THAT would work. I mean if we were talking an offense to actual people. Discrimination against Nintendo employees, support of bigotted laws, then yah more of an area for attack. This requires ENTICEMENT.
 

MrHide-Patten

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Mmm yes, Nintendo is doomed, run for the hills boys and girls as they may run out of money by 2040 instead of 2050, shock and horror. Run out an buy a Wii-U now to save them from the stock market crash that shall ensue!

Let's all just come to the conclusion that Nintendo hasn't had any balls for years and expecting them to be forward or progressive in any respect is like asking Politicians to come through on election promises, it isn't going to happen.

So yes, bad bug, broke lots of shit in game and like some occasional bugs you get something good out of it, and naturally you lose it in the patch. Just a pity they didn't have the foresight to be inclusive in the first place, but then see previous point. Expecting any social commentary from Nintendo in a bold faced manner is just going to leave you disappointed and slightly betrayed. Because Nintendo makes kiddy games for kids, now don't you dare think outside the box kid, may hurt yourself.

If this was EA I can guarantee a tougher lynch mob. With unwavering certainty.