Trico has a butthole (and The Last Guardian is magnificent!)

[Casual Shinji]

Well, The Last Guardian is out, and guess what, it's pretty great. It's basically just Ico with enlarged environments and a cat the size of a schoolbus (catbus) in place of Yorda.

And speaking of which, Trico is the most amazing thing I've seen in a game in years. It was pretty obvious from the outset that he'd be the star of this production, but watching him move around on my screen was breathtaking. He's animated with such graceful weight (if that makes any sense) I'd almost believe Team Ico actually found a 2-ton cat somewhere and mo-capped it. His feathers/fur even stands up on end when he gets aggressive, it's brilliant. The only critique I can give toward his motion is that sometimes his neck looks like it's slightly snapping in on itself when his head is tracking you or something else in the environment.

The gameplay is pretty basic platforming/puzzle solving, but it's the addition of Trico that turns it into so much more. Trico can follow you almost anywhere, and it's a trip watching him take mighty leaps from pillar to pillar, or jump up into a cavern opening up high. This becomes especially wonderous if you happen to riding on his back.

It's not all rosey though, since the camera is not your friend AT ALL, and the framerate can on occasion shit itself. (I'm playing it on a regular PS4; on the Pro the framerate is apparently locked at 30.) This only happens when you're outside and there's a lot of foliage around, but it's very noticeable nonetheless. The camera is drunk most of the time, but this is slightly absolved by your character always auto-grabbing anything he finds himself tumbling off of. So you'll rarely find yourself falling to your death unless you purposefully jump off a cliff.

Trico's A.I. is not the best, but then he's not supposed to be a robot. He's an animal, and rarely do the seams show that he's anything but. Not everyone is going to take too kindly to his slow response though, and if you have an aversion to A.I. companions in general this game will probably piss you off. After a certain point he'll start to listen to commands you can give, and they work very intuitively. You get a 'call' button from the start, but once you get commands all you need to do is press the call button and then press 'jump', 'grab', 'push', or move the analog stick in any direction for Trico to perform the corresponding action. Ultimately he feels like a truly interactable A.I. companion, and it's been a very long time since we had one again in gaming.

The game seems to have quite a lot of narration, which I feel negates the usual Team Ico charm a bit. Ico and Shadow of the Colossus tossed you into a vague world with few answers, and the mystery added to the atmosphere. That's a bit lost from The Last Guardian, unfortunately.

I've played about 4 to 5 hours now, but it's been an absolute joy.

 

[shrekfan246]

Funny enough, reading reactions to The Last Guardian I'm very much struck by how similar it seems to be to Ico and Shadow of the Colossus... and by how much I really don't think people should be as surprised by that as they appear to be.

This isn't to say that I don't understand the complaints about things like an unwieldy camera or anachronistic controls/AI, but if you've any experience with Team Ico at all then you should at least go in expecting that. While I think the gameplay of Shadow of the Colossus really deserves to be experienced because of how awesome it is, that doesn't mean it's expressly good.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Funny enough, reading reactions to The Last Guardian I'm very much struck by how similar it seems to be to Ico and Shadow of the Colossus... and by how much I really don't think people should be as surprised by that as they appear to be.

This isn't to say that I don't understand the complaints about things like an unwieldy camera or anachronistic controls/AI, but if you've any experience with Team Ico at all then you should at least go in expecting that. While I think the gameplay of Shadow of the Colossus really deserves to be experienced because of how awesome it is, that doesn't mean it's expressly good.

Anyone who's a fan of Ico and/or SotC will feel right at home with this game.

 

[shrekfan246]

Funny enough, reading reactions to The Last Guardian I'm very much struck by how similar it seems to be to Ico and Shadow of the Colossus... and by how much I really don't think people should be as surprised by that as they appear to be.

This isn't to say that I don't understand the complaints about things like an unwieldy camera or anachronistic controls/AI, but if you've any experience with Team Ico at all then you should at least go in expecting that. While I think the gameplay of Shadow of the Colossus really deserves to be experienced because of how awesome it is, that doesn't mean it's expressly good.

Anyone who's a fan of Ico and/or SotC will feel right at home with this game.

Yeah, I'm still looking forward to it. Don't have a PS4 yet so I can't play it, but I'm hoping following the holiday season I'll either get one or be able to afford to buy one for myself.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

That first time you and Trico get out of the cave in the beginning really felt like the 1st time seeing that brachiosaurus in Jurassic Park; seeing Trico out in the open and moving around was magical. Trico feels like you have basically a "colossus" friend as the game conveys the size and impact of weight so well whether you are on Trico or just observing from afar. There's something about Team ICO's puzzles that I just love as well, they are somehow not very game-y at all. If you are stuck somewhere, usually the best way to solve the puzzle is just to put yourself in the character's shoes (as if you're really there) and just do what you would if it wasn't a game. There's this one section where you have to get past a gate and I'm wasting time trying to figure out how to open it when the boy can just make it through the bars.

So far I've found Trico's AI to be better than reported (mainly by Jim Sterling's video) as I've gotten Trico to do what I needed fairly quickly in comparison. It won't be until playing the game again and knowing exactly what you need to do for everything and seeing how fast Trico responds that I'll get a really good sense of the AI. I've already gotten Trico to catch barrels out of the air more times in just a few hours than Jim reported doing in an entire playthrough. Plus, you don't even have to place the barrels that perfectly either as you can just let Trico snatch it from your hands I've found. From what Jim described the Trico commands to be, I really don't get the sense that he understood that you can use R1 + the face buttons to issue more specific commands. Plus, in gameplay sections after you learn those commands, I didn't see him using them at all and then complaining about Trico not doing stuff and being slow. And those button prompts are repeated ad nauseam. There was one time early in the video where Jim was trying to get Trico to eat a barrel when the creature was crouched in a cave; how don't you realize as an experienced gamer that Trico's animation to eat requires him to be standing up?

The camera is definitely wonky at times, but you're not going to die because of it either like you would in a combat heavy game. The main annoying aspect of the camera is that it's laggy and takes a second to move. I haven't had many framerate issues at all, I'm only a few hours in (and just past the section where you get Trico's commands). I've really only noticed the framerate stutter here and there at times mainly mid-pan while moving the camera. The controls are definitely old-school in both good and bad ways. I really wish the boy had 3 different movement speeds as he can either run or stealthily walk, no slow jog or anything in-between. What I do love about the Team ICO games is that they do have real platforming whereas you just don't press just and a canned animation plays like just about every "platformer" nowadays (*cough*Uncharted*cough*). You have to make the jumps yourself and if you miss, it really is your fault.

In short, The Last Guardian is SO FAR a true masterpiece and really everything I'd hoped it would be when it was announced all those years ago. Hopefully, it will indeed round out a basically near perfect trilogy that we may never experience again. Hell, I don't think there's a movie trilogy this good and consistent.

It's basically just Ico with enlarged environments and a cat the size of a schoolbus (catbus) in place of Yorda.

I really feel that the boy is the Yorda of The Last Guardian. I feel very much like Yorda when I run away from enemies and need to have Trico defeat them. Even how the enemies pick you up is very reminiscent to Yorda.

 

[Casual Shinji]

There's this one section where you have to get past a gate and I'm wasting time trying to figure out how to open it when the boy can just make it through the bars.

I blame this on videogame levels always having bars that look visually wide enough to fit through, but don't ever allow it. It's one of my pet peeves in games. So yes, I too found myself stuck there due to being conditioned by years of lazy level design. ...And then I just walked through the fucking things as a lark.

So far I've found Trico's AI to be better than reported (mainly by Jim Sterling's video) as I've gotten Trico to do what I needed fairly quickly in comparison. It won't be until playing the game again and knowing exactly what you need to do for everything and seeing how fast Trico responds that I'll get a really good sense of the AI. I've already gotten Trico to catch barrels out of the air more times in just a few hours than Jim reported doing in an entire playthrough. Plus, you don't even have to place the barrels that perfectly either as you can just let Trico snatch it from your hands I've found. From what Jim described the Trico commands to be, I really don't get the sense that he understood that you can use R1 + the face buttons to issue more specific commands. Plus, in gameplay sections after you learn those commands, I didn't see him using them at all and then complaining about Trico not doing stuff and being slow. And those button prompts are repeated ad nauseam. There was one time early in the video where Jim was trying to get Trico to eat a barrel when the creature was crouched in a cave; how don't you realize as an experienced gamer that Trico's animation to eat requires him to be standing up?

It's surely going to be a devisive issue. Some'll hate it because Trico doesn't instantly snap to it, while others will say that's kinda the whole idea. A.I. companions have been rather "lazy" this and last generation, even if the actual characters were great. They're invincible and they warp right to your side if the game demands it. And it's not like I want every companion to be like Trico, but it is nice to get one once in a while. A.I.'s like this are always going to walk a fine line.

The camera is definitely wonky at times, but you're not going to die because of it either like you would in a combat heavy game. The main annoying aspect of the camera is that it's laggy and takes a second to move. I haven't had many framerate issues at all, I'm only a few hours in (and just past the section where you get Trico's commands). I've really only noticed the framerate stutter here and there at times mainly mid-pan while moving the camera. The controls are definitely old-school in both good and bad ways. I really wish the boy had 3 different movement speeds as he can either run or stealthily walk, no slow jog or anything in-between. What I do love about the Team ICO games is that they do have real platforming whereas you just don't press just and a canned animation plays like just about every "platformer" nowadays (*cough*Uncharted*cough*). You have to make the jumps yourself and if you miss, it really is your fault.

I'm still struggling a bit with the auto-grab in this game. Specifically when it involves Trico. It's like SotC, but it lacks the more indepth control that Wander had due to there being no grab button that you need to hold. I can understand the devs wanting the boy to be glued to Trico when he's on him, since Trico's much faster than a Colossi and can hop like 30 yards in a single bounce. But the platforming back, forth, and around Trico feels very sticky because of it. I never feel like I have that much free movement when I'm on Trico.

 

[stroopwafel]

Yeah, really enjoying the game so far as well. Initially it felt like a pot of glue leaked on my controller with the stiff and slow moving camera and often unresponsive controls but once I got into the groove of things it wasn't so bad. Trico is an amazing creature and I agree I have never seen an A.i. companion like this either. This is the first game I played that has actually very powerful non-verbal communication. Trico constantly wants to make contact with you like it wants to be pet and tries it's best to interpret your gestures and commands. This interplay is just so incredibly endearing and really what I find the best part of the game. I actually believe Trico not following your direct orders is done one purpose as this delay of gratification when Trico finally does what you want him/her to do really feels like you're training the creature and that you're in this journey together. The game has that same mysterious ambiance and visual style as Ueda's previous games(though perhaps with indeed a bit more story exposure) but at the same time I feel this element also betrays the game's long development cycle exactly because it is so similair.

The Last Guardian is a unique game I haven't really played before. Trico's behavior and interactions are impressively dynamic and complex so I can definitely see why they never got this working on PS3. It's an impressive feature in a game that otherwise feels like it should have been released seven years ago.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It's surely going to be a devisive issue. Some'll hate it because Trico doesn't instantly snap to it, while others will say that's kinda the whole idea. A.I. companions have been rather "lazy" this and last generation, even if the actual characters were great. They're invincible and they warp right to your side if the game demands it. And it's not like I want every companion to be like Trico, but it is nice to get one once in a while. A.I.'s like this are always going to walk a fine line.

I'm still struggling a bit with the auto-grab in this game. Specifically when it involves Trico. It's like SotC, but it lacks the more indepth control that Wander had due to there being no grab button that you need to hold. I can understand the devs wanting the boy to be glued to Trico when he's on him, since Trico's much faster than a Colossi and can hop like 30 yards in a single bounce. But the platforming back, forth, and around Trico feels very sticky because of it. I never feel like I have that much free movement when I'm on Trico.

I wanted to get a video capture of a rather early scene after learning L1 centers the camera on Trico so I went back and played through the first sections. When playing through and knowing what is needed to be done, I've found Trico to be very responsive now. That section where he jumps down to that sorta caged area with the glowing green artifact, I got Trico to immediately jump down knowing that's what I was supposed to do. When I initially played, I thought I had to deactivate the artifact somehow.

Trico has some bad spots to where you can get stuck trying to climb. I've found going up the hind legs has basically a problem free climbing path as I've never got stuck doing that.

This is the first game I played that has actually very powerful non-verbal communication. Trico constantly wants to make contact with you like it wants to be pet and tries it's best to interpret your gestures and commands. This interplay is just so incredibly endearing and really what I find the best part of the game. I actually believe Trico not following your direct orders is done one purpose as this delay of gratification when Trico finally does what you want him/her to do really feels like you're training the creature and that you're in this journey together.

Above I mentioned that I went back and replayed through a couple early sections and Trico is very responsive once you know what needs to be done. Early on it definitely feels Trico is more independent but will still respond when needed. I think Trico doesn't follow orders as well due to trying to lead you to the right place as Trico seems to know where to go at times and you don't obviously. I guess, it's just a subtle way of the game helping you out early on.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

So I went ahead and made a Last Guardian video set to the Jurassic Park theme.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

The only footage I've seen was Jim's video and he's downright frustrated with the AI.
I think I'll have more tolerance for it than he does, so I'll probably get some good enjoyment out of this game, but I hope the devs can put modern patching to good use (for a change) and fix some of the more egregious issues.

It reminds me of Lair (that dragon-themed launch title for PS3 that nobody played because the controls were absolute shit), they fixed the controls in a later patch, so that the game became playable, but by that time it was too late and gamers had already moved on to unbroken experiences. I got to hear at a convention from some of the artists who worked on that game, they were frustrated to say the least. They put in all that work and nobody got to see it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Coming from you this is a relief to hear, we seem to have similar tastes in gaming. Now what I want to know is, without any spoilers, how satisfactory is the ending?

 

[Casual Shinji]

It reminds me of Lair (that dragon-themed launch title for PS3 that nobody played because the controls were absolute shit), they fixed the controls in a later patch, so that the game became playable, but by that time it was too late and gamers had already moved on to unbroken experiences. I got to hear at a convention from some of the artists who worked on that game, they were frustrated to say the least. They put in all that work and nobody got to see it.

Honestly, the only patch I want is one that implements a hold button for the climbing. Climbing Trico just doesn't feel as organic as I feel it should, because you stick to him automatically and need to press a button in order to unstick. You also can't freely jump off of him unless you're standing ontop his back or his head. I want SotC climbing controls for this kid, but the game unfortunately isn't giving it to me.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The only footage I've seen was Jim's video and he's downright frustrated with the AI.
I think I'll have more tolerance for it than he does, so I'll probably get some good enjoyment out of this game, but I hope the devs can put modern patching to good use (for a change) and fix some of the more egregious issues.

It reminds me of Lair (that dragon-themed launch title for PS3 that nobody played because the controls were absolute shit), they fixed the controls in a later patch, so that the game became playable, but by that time it was too late and gamers had already moved on to unbroken experiences. I got to hear at a convention from some of the artists who worked on that game, they were frustrated to say the least. They put in all that work and nobody got to see it.

He also has the maturity level of a small, spoiled child though, so I'll take his opinion with a salt shaker.

I think if people go into this game with the mindset of playing a typical platformer they are bound to be disappointed. The creature is literally the star of the show, and expecting some anomalies of creature behavior will be key to even beginning to enjoy this. The camera will also require some patience, but this seems like another once-a-generation type of game in the vein of SotC. In fact, it could be considered the culmination of that game and Ico.

 

[Dragonbums]

I'm gonna admit, I skimmed OP and I was really hoping to see Trico's butthole.

Where is the pics of Tricos butthole? Don't lie to me in the title like that.

 

[Dragonbums]

The only footage I've seen was Jim's video and he's downright frustrated with the AI.
I think I'll have more tolerance for it than he does, so I'll probably get some good enjoyment out of this game, but I hope the devs can put modern patching to good use (for a change) and fix some of the more egregious issues.

It reminds me of Lair (that dragon-themed launch title for PS3 that nobody played because the controls were absolute shit), they fixed the controls in a later patch, so that the game became playable, but by that time it was too late and gamers had already moved on to unbroken experiences. I got to hear at a convention from some of the artists who worked on that game, they were frustrated to say the least. They put in all that work and nobody got to see it.

He also has the maturity level of a small, spoiled child though, so I'll take his opinion with a salt shaker.

I think if people go into this game with the mindset of playing a typical platformer they are bound to be disappointed. The creature is literally the star of the show, and expecting some anomalies of creature behavior will be key to even beginning to enjoy this. The camera will also require some patience, but this seems like another once-a-generation type of game in the vein of SotC. In fact, it could be considered the culmination of that game and Ico.

I didn't see that in his review at all. His videos might be a bit on the more comedic side but he was entirely fair with his written review.

There is nothing unfair in criticizing how unresponsive and clunky the AI feels in a game. Especially when the only AI they really have to deal with is one prominent characters and enemy AI that sporadically appear like in all Team Ico games.
I don't think many people would have fun searching for a solution for half an hour because Trico didn't react to anything only to find out that they DID point to the solution multiple times but it just so happens that the AI chose to 'not respond' with zero indication that the AI was simply being difficult and bratty as opposed to literally not responding like it's supposed to.
Which is a very big point to bring up. If the AI is working as intended than having SOME indication that it straight up isn't listening goes a long way in tempering some of the frustrations with the game.
It's not bratty to be annoyed at a game that constantly baits you for an hour and you can't even tell if the game was supposed to work like that or not.

And if one isn't supposed to approach it like a platformer, than how are they supposed to have a mindset of? At the end of the day it's a puzzle/platformer game. You can show off the personality and quirks of a character without leaving them frustrated on a technical level for no goddamn reason too. Just like every other game of todays age it needs to be scrutinized and criticized with the same fairness as any other game. It doesn't get a pass because it's Team Ico

 

[Casual Shinji]

Just finished it.

It's a fucking masterpiece!

God bless you, Ueda-san.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I didn't see that in his review at all. His videos might be a bit on the more comedic side but he was entirely fair with his written review.

There is nothing unfair in criticizing how unresponsive and clunky the AI feels in a game. Especially when the only AI they really have to deal with is one prominent characters and enemy AI that sporadically appear like in all Team Ico games.
I don't think many people would have fun searching for a solution for half an hour because Trico didn't react to anything only to find out that they DID point to the solution multiple times but it just so happens that the AI chose to 'not respond' with zero indication that the AI was simply being difficult and bratty as opposed to literally not responding like it's supposed to.
Which is a very big point to bring up. If the AI is working as intended than having SOME indication that it straight up isn't listening goes a long way in tempering some of the frustrations with the game.
It's not bratty to be annoyed at a game that constantly baits you for an hour and you can't even tell if the game was supposed to work like that or not.

And if one isn't supposed to approach it like a platformer, than how are they supposed to have a mindset of? At the end of the day it's a puzzle/platformer game. You can show off the personality and quirks of a character without leaving them frustrated on a technical level for no goddamn reason too. Just like every other game of todays age it needs to be scrutinized and criticized with the same fairness as any other game. It doesn't get a pass because it's Team Ico

I'm a pretty big Jim Sterling fan. But I've never been a fan of his reviews, not because of score and disagreeing, but because sometimes he doesn't even understand the game's mechanics (like Vanquish) or he just says stuff that is plain wrong.

Jim complains about Trico eating his barrels, but he doesn't pay attention to some basic things. If you watched his video and saw him complain about Trico not eating a barrel while crouched in a cave, well that's because Trico needs to be standing up to do the "eat barrel" animation. I don't know how such an experience gamer doesn't realize that. You don't have to put the barrels in such perfect spots either. Sometimes Trico has some minor troubles, but you can focus on figuring out where to go next while Trico tries a couple times to eventually eat the barrel. And to avoid the whole barrel "issue" completely, you can just stand in front of Trico holding the barrel and Trico will snatch it from you, but I guess Jim didn't try that. He complains about Trico snatching barrels from the air as you throw them, but if you seen his video, then you know he just picks up the barrel and tosses it as fast he can (hitting a railing too); however, lining up your toss and holding the barrel in front of Trico for a couple seconds and then tossing it works far far better.

I haven't had many issues at all of Trico with taking really long to do anything. Lots of times Trico will sorta lead you by pretty much going where needed, thus trying to get Trico to do something else is hard. A few times, I've had to gives commands a couple times but nothing like Jim described. From his review and video, I'm almost certain that Jim doesn't know that there are commands assigned to the buttons like pressing R1 + triangle to tell Trico to jump. Exert from his review, "A command system is in place, but it?s bizarre, relying on holding down a button and using the left stick to point at things." You can see in his gameplay video as well that he never does any of the more specific commands either.

The only issue I've had with the controls all game was one section where you had to shimmy on a narrow ledge, I had a hard time triggering the animation to get on said ledge. And, that's really it.

Just finished it.

It's a fucking masterpiece!

God bless you, Ueda-san.

Nice, I kinda don't wanna finish it because it's so good. I'm definitely going to replay it though. I may even try for the Platinum as I really love the game.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Just finished it.

It's a fucking masterpiece!

God bless you, Ueda-san.

So how severe were the problems Dragonbums mentioned have you encountered?

I understand his point though. It's definitely frustrating to deal with unresponsive companion AI, but from the looks of it there has never been a companion AI anywhere near as dynamic, detailed, and massive as this. For me personally it's something I'd be willing to take in stride because it's so far beyond anything else that's been attempted. Similar to SotC for its time.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

So how severe were the problems Dragonbums mentioned did you encounter?

I understand his point though. It's definitely frustrating to deal with unresponsive companion AI, but from the looks of it there has never been a companion AI anywhere near as dynamic, detailed, and massive as this. For me personally it's something I'd be willing to take in stride because it's so far beyond anything else that's been attempted. Similar to SotC for its time.

Ha, we posted at like the same time. I answered most of the issues. Feel free to wait for Shinji's response if you wanna hear from him and/or his take as it may be different.

 

[Casual Shinji]

So how severe were the problems Dragonbums mentioned have you encountered?

I understand his point though. It's definitely frustrating to deal with unresponsive companion AI, but from the looks of it there has never been a companion AI anywhere near as dynamic, detailed, and massive as this. For me personally it's something I'd be willing to take in stride because it's so far beyond anything else that's been attempted. Similar to SotC for its time.

There was one point where Trico's A.I. was legitimately unresponsive -- where I knew the solution to the problem and Trico wouldn't perform the correct motion to help me out. And it took some time (a minute or so) for him to finally do it. But apart from that he's been terrific. I can't comment on how others experienced him, maybe they just had a couple of unlucky strikes.

There was one point in the game that frustrated the living shit out of me, but it had nothing to do with Trico and everything to do with the game's physics.

Nice, I kinda don't wanna finish it because it's so good. I'm definitely going to replay it though. I may even try for the Platinum as I really love the game.

I checked out the game's Trophies and there's a bunch of secret stuff you can do that I had no clue about. I'm gonna play it again, because it's fucking awesome, but also to see how I can do what the Trophies claim I apparently can. Maybe it's tied to New Game+, like Yorda's language getting translated in Ico.