Trump admits to Bob Woodward that He Knew How Deadly Covid-19 was back in February of this Year.

stroopwafel

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It shouldn't happen in the US, he actually turned down masks. He used the defense production act to make a few then stopped because he doesn't like masks. There is actually no reason we should have a shortage of anything here, he had the defense production act, he didn't need to rely on china for anything. Hell Bill Gates got so irritated with him he just bought a factory himself and made vials so they could test and will be able to distribute the vaccine because Trump wasn't doing his job. Of course the majority are going to have underlying conditions, That doesn't mean they or anyone else DESERVED to die due to it. You act like it was somehow okay that they were denied disinfectant and PPE and should die or something. I have breathing conditions caused by a different virus that destroyed my lungs while I was working with MSF, should I be forced to die as well? Trump could have prevented most of these deaths if he had accordingly.

What is stopping Trump from implementing the defense production act and making disinfectant for the general public in the US?
What is stopping Trump from implementing the defense production act and creating masks in the US?
Why did Trump turn down offers from companies willing to do so?
Why did Trump have no problem using the defense production act for building his wall?

He chose to only make a small amount of masks not what we actually needed. He chose to just pretend like it was all over instead.


The US actually has the ability to make all these things here, Trump just refuses to do it.
Every country has had logistical problems with managing this crisis. The Netherlands sold almost it's entire supply of PPE to China because it figured it wouldn't escalate here so quickly so there was no moratorium in place to prevent companies to make a quick buck. Miscalculations like this are common practice and not unique to Trump. Governments just react slowly to changing circumstances. You also can't be sure the contracting would have worked out the way a company claims. Most of the time it doesn't. In fairness Trump tried to prevent the virus from becoming endemic in the U.S. by closing down the airports(or atleast limiting flights) which is already more than most countries did in that early stage. I remember people in the news here finding it an 'exaggeration'. Once the virus became endemic pretty much every country has had the same struggle of medical supply shortages, containment procedures and protecting those at highest risk.
 

Agema

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You also can't be sure the contracting would have worked out the way a company claims.
Especially not in the UK, where contracting is a matter of someone in government phoning up a friend / business partner of a government minister or Tory party donor, who sets up a little procurement company with no track record or expertise. That procurement company then gets paid millions of pounds to secure PPE from manufacturers, except because the procurement company has no experise, they buy in useless PPE that doesn't meet requirements. But who cares? Government ministers have achieved their real aim, which is enriching their best mates from the public purse.
 

Specter Von Baren

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To be fair, I wouldn't want to really guarantee Obama and Bush didn't think they had better things to do with their time. But they're willing to do it, and able to converse with regular people in a relatively natural way.

But can you really see Trump doing that sort of thing? I think the idea of mixing with the plebs in that sort of way is not only something he actively wouldn't want to do, it might go as far as something that would disgust him - the idea that he, billionaire president, should take himself down to their level. He has no humility.
Didn't he do that during his visit to Kenosha?...
 

tstorm823

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An old couple drank fish tank cleaner because they heard Trump talk about a drug with a similar name, I assure you, if these sorts of people knew he was worried they'd act differently and prevent the spread of the virus considerably.
Are you suggesting that couple didn't take it seriously enough? That had Trump been more pessimistic in his messaging, they'd be less inclined to do stupid things like self-medicate with fish cleaner?
 

Agema

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Didn't he do that during his visit to Kenosha?...
Not really. He wandered around with some officials, hosted a "round table". It's not really mixing with Joe Average, doing small talk - it's business, with that boundary between his power and theirs still in place. I can't really imagine Trump ladelling soup into a bowl at a food kitchen or helping build a house, getting his hands dirty, being told what to do by some organiser.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Not really. He wandered around with some officials, hosted a "round table". It's not really mixing with Joe Average, doing small talk - it's business, with that boundary between his power and theirs still in place. I can't really imagine Trump ladelling soup into a bowl at a food kitchen or helping build a house, getting his hands dirty, being told what to do by some organiser.
But... I just read right in a news report that he met with the owners of a store.


" With the scent of smoke still in the air, he spoke to the owners of a century-old store that had been destroyed and continued to link the violence to the Democrats, blaming those in charge of Kenosha and Wisconsin while raising apocalyptic warnings if their party should capture the White House. "
 

Agema

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But... I just read right in a news report that he met with the owners of a store.
He's not really speaking to them, is he? This is the lord of the manor lining up his peasants as props, graciously allowing them to utter a few sycophantic words about how happy they are to be honoured by his mere presence, and then delivering his political spiel.

It's not the Obama and Bush aren't every bit as much staged photo ops, but there is something about the presentation where they go and do tasks "like normal people" and interact in normal(ish) ways with normal people, the point being to portray themselves as regular people. At least they can do so. You can't get Trump to do that, because he has virtually no conception of what normal people are, what normal people do, how to have normal conversations with them. The idea he could do menial tasks to serve them is totally beyond his narcissistic mindset. He can't spend an hour peeling potatos for a soup kitchen which will go to feed people he views as the worst of losers. He won't even tour the graves of "losers" who gave their lives for their country.
 

Specter Von Baren

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He's not really speaking to them, is he? This is the lord of the manor lining up his peasants as props, graciously allowing them to utter a few sycophantic words about how happy they are to be honoured by his mere presence, and then delivering his political spiel.

It's not the Obama and Bush aren't every bit as much staged photo ops, but there is something about the presentation where they go and do tasks "like normal people" and interact in normal(ish) ways with normal people, the point being to portray themselves as regular people. At least they can do so. You can't get Trump to do that, because he has virtually no conception of what normal people are, what normal people do, how to have normal conversations with them. The idea he could do menial tasks to serve them is totally beyond his narcissistic mindset. He can't spend an hour peeling potatos for a soup kitchen which will go to feed people he views as the worst of losers. He won't even tour the graves of "losers" who gave their lives for their country.
I see. Thank you. Actually, thank you also for being so often willing to humor me and give me the kind of answer I seem to be looking for. I've been wondering if the source of so many of my questions of people is me trying to find the personal nuance to a person's view on things and I seem to get that response I'm looking for from you a lot.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
But I do think, if Woodward had those tapes all the way back in February, and considering the audio specifically has Trump saying he knows how serious the virus is...I think, especially living in MIssouri myself, that might have changed some people's opinions on the matter and made it a little less political and more a matter of just taking it serious and being safe.
Oh shit, that is a really good point. I was going to say I didn't think releasing it earlier would have mattered but you are right, since it was this early having him literally be caught in a blatant lie probably would have helped. I think you definitely would have seen fewer of the idiotic super spreader republican events.
 

Eacaraxe

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Yea, I think the absolute scariest thing I've seen come from social media and the manipulation of mass media is that people believe the first thing they hear and don't do their due diligence to find the facts for themselves. This is a whole other conversation, but social media is extremely dangerous in that regard in that, while it can be used for good, more often than not misinformation spreads like wildfire and then nobody knows what the true narrative is.

Not to harp on the "blue checkmark" train, but to critique that for a moment, how many people that are "verified" actually have the credentials to back it up? In my experience, very few do, and the amount of influence that they wield as untrustworthy sources of information baffles me daily.
I do feel like it loops back to Woodward and the exact circumstances surrounding this particular news item, specifically because of how polarized society's become and in no small part due to the media shit. Case in point, circumstances have devolved to the point that is this news item going to be persuasive, or really informative, in any way whatsoever? As other posters pointed out, most folks fell into one of two camps: convinced this was already the case and Trump was lying from the beginning, or were going to do what Trump says come hell or high water.

Most on social and broadcast/print media are simply fighting over whether this news item is relevant in the first place, not the implications of it on the past six months of pandemic response policy. That may be a thin distinction but it's important, since the mere presence of the distinction speaks to exactly how buggered the state of US media is.

And believe me, I'll be the first person to hop on the "blue check" train. After all, this is what I found waiting for me when I checked Twitter this morning:


Literally a Nobel laureate, and one of the most respected and influential economists on the planet. And I could list other examples all day -- Rachel Maddow, an Oxford-educated scholar, turning herself into the Democratic party's answer to Glenn Beck for a paycheck, immediately also springs to mind. We're far enough into the age of truthiness, that even credentials are no measure of trustworthiness or credibility. Hell, Woodward's still one of the most respected names in journalism even accounting for his Bush era misadventure, and his opinion carries massive weight still -- but on the other hand, the timing of this news item is seriously damaging to his own credibility on the subject.

Long story short though, until ad dollars are taken out of the equation for mass media, corruption is always going to be present.
I'm all for pushing profit motive out of reporting, but on the other hand I feel simply re-regulating the media would be the most vital first step. Media literacy programs, restoring the Fairness Doctrine, mandatory disclaimers of ownership and advertisement, strict prohibition on conflicted interest (this bullshit of seeing pharma commercials in ad breaks between segments on health care's gotta go), breaking up these damn hyper-consolidated and integrated media outlets, all of it.

It's ridiculous AT&T and Comcast in particular have integrated and consolidated to the point they facially run afoul of US v. Paramount having far exceeded Paramount's own scope and scale in that case, and not only are they getting away with it, it's being tacitly endorsed by the federal government and advertised as a net positive to the American public.

Here’s my problem with this whole mess. It’s still way better than like 4 decades+ ago. All the major media companies had to toe the line with the administrations. Lies like the war in Iraq were commonplace but nobody reported on them. There wasn’t honesty in journalism back then, just being a propaganda machine. It would have made Stalin proud.
Dubya's admin was the one that figured out they could barter and auction access for administration-friendly reporting.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Fox put out negative press no matter what Obama did, but we are talking about Fox here. The man couldn't tie his shoes without fox accusing him of something.

Pepperidge farm remembers.
 

Agema

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I see. Thank you. Actually, thank you also for being so often willing to humor me and give me the kind of answer I seem to be looking for. I've been wondering if the source of so many of my questions of people is me trying to find the personal nuance to a person's view on things and I seem to get that response I'm looking for from you a lot.
:) Happy to help. I'm in education: my ethos is increasing understanding where possible.
 

Nick Calandra

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Something I find quite depressing is that I think an important part of a degree (certainly the ones I teach) is to train someone to research, analyse and evaluate information to a high standard; this is perhaps the highest level, key transferrable skill - it can be used absolutely anywhere for anything.

It's then dismaying to see people with such training pour onto social media (or even more traditional media outlets) and just run with whatever they read.
Oh shit, that is a really good point. I was going to say I didn't think releasing it earlier would have mattered but you are right, since it was this early having him literally be caught in a blatant lie probably would have helped. I think you definitely would have seen fewer of the idiotic super spreader republican events.
Yea, that's what bothers me is that the Republican party really just laps up anything he puts down without question, so if he had taken it seriously, they wouldn't want to look bad or go against him in that regard which could have helped. Those recordings would have swayed that way. Now that Woodward waited so long, Trump has already turned it against him and made it about the Dems or media holding back super important information that apparently "wasn't" so important.

You can't give Trump free ammo and not expect him to use it.
 

Trunkage

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Yea, that's what bothers me is that the Republican party really just laps up anything he puts down without question, so if he had taken it seriously, they wouldn't want to look bad or go against him in that regard which could have helped. Those recordings would have swayed that way. Now that Woodward waited so long, Trump has already turned it against him and made it about the Dems or media holding back super important information that apparently "wasn't" so important.

You can't give Trump free ammo and not expect him to use it.
I don't know if Woodward releasing it when he first got it would have made any difference then either.

Trump just attacks. It doesnt matter if it was in March, now or 2025. He just attacks and no one holds him to account
 
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lil devils x

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Every country has had logistical problems with managing this crisis. The Netherlands sold almost it's entire supply of PPE to China because it figured it wouldn't escalate here so quickly so there was no moratorium in place to prevent companies to make a quick buck. Miscalculations like this are common practice and not unique to Trump. Governments just react slowly to changing circumstances. You also can't be sure the contracting would have worked out the way a company claims. Most of the time it doesn't. In fairness Trump tried to prevent the virus from becoming endemic in the U.S. by closing down the airports(or atleast limiting flights) which is already more than most countries did in that early stage. I remember people in the news here finding it an 'exaggeration'. Once the virus became endemic pretty much every country has had the same struggle of medical supply shortages, containment procedures and protecting those at highest risk.
We do not have logistical problems. DID you read What I said? Did you read where we have companies in the US ready to go to do so and are STILL just waiting on word from Trump to do it? They have all the equipment necessary to make N95 masks just have been waiting on word from Trump to do since JANUARY. Don't give me some BS about it being some struggle when we have the companies themselves just waiting for the go ahead they never received. It is BS and you know it is BS to make excuses at that point. None of that applies to a situation where we have the factories ALREADY equipped and ready to go if given the word and Trump just chose not to.

When we have US companies ready to make what we are still experiencing mass shortages of equipped to make them now and ready to go on US soil, nothing outside of Trump's own incompetence explains why this has not happened yet. They made it clear to him they have been waiting and ready to deliver. There is no excuse for this.
Did you bother to read my post or the articles linked? Hell if Trump had just said so we would have had trucking companies and volunteers lining up to distribute this shit on the drop of a hat if he had just asked them to.
 
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Dreiko

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Are you suggesting that couple didn't take it seriously enough? That had Trump been more pessimistic in his messaging, they'd be less inclined to do stupid things like self-medicate with fish cleaner?
Yes, if your solution is to look for a miracle drug in your house and not just simply social distance and wear a mask outside and not going anywhere you don't direly need to, you are not taking the appropriate measures.

When Trump tells people of a cure, they will go on to be more risk-taking than otherwise because they feel they have a cure to fall back on. So while they take what he says seriously, because he didn't say the truth, they took the wrong thing seriously and ended up spreading the virus, which is why it'd help if he had said the truth.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Yea, that's what bothers me is that the Republican party really just laps up anything he puts down without question, so if he had taken it seriously, they wouldn't want to look bad or go against him in that regard which could have helped. Those recordings would have swayed that way. Now that Woodward waited so long, Trump has already turned it against him and made it about the Dems or media holding back super important information that apparently "wasn't" so important.

You can't give Trump free ammo and not expect him to use it.
Off topic but, damnit Nick, where were you? Where were you?! We had all these people besmirching the good name of our state and area of the country and you were not here with me to defend our good name! How could you?!
 
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ObsidianJones

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Oh shit, that is a really good point. I was going to say I didn't think releasing it earlier would have mattered but you are right, since it was this early having him literally be caught in a blatant lie probably would have helped. I think you definitely would have seen fewer of the idiotic super spreader republican events.
I don't know about this.

I moved down to Florida two weeks ago. And this is Trump land. If there's a political placard on the Lawn, it's supporting Trump and Pence. If there's a sticker on a bumper, it's for Trump. If there's a young girl wearing political socks (this is not an exaggeration, it happened at the airport), it's for Trump.

This news is out now. I'm not seeing anyone taking away these declarations of support. They are a cult, worshipping at the heels of what they consider a wrathful God that will smite their enemies. Again, we have a poster here who seemingly is not that far away from this. Reason is left for the the Left, the Independents, and the Republicans who aren't in the cult. The supporters are largely gone.

Hell, we had someone calling Trump's efforts 'presidential'. There's nothing that can get past their self induced miasma.

... if I think about it, I can easily see this news coming out and the rhetoric being "HOW MUCH DO YOU SUPPORT TRUMP?! ARE YOU WILLING TO RISK YOUR LIFE TO KEEP AMERICA GREAT?! ATTEND EVERY RALLY YOU CAN"

~edit: Holy Shit, the proof is in the pudding.

 
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