Trump Town Hall Disaster

lil devils x

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I'd have to dig up someone else's post, but somebody on the forum already went through Biden's police plan and it's unchanged from the last 30+ years of policy that got us to where we are. The gist of it is there's money that's supposed to be earmarked for possibly useful things, but it's always operated as a slush fund to buy more tanks.

And any candidate that can't even demand a fracking ban doesn't have a climate policy worth listening to. That is like the most basic thing you can do, and Biden won't do it. I can safely blow off the rest of what he says because 100%, the political will for it will "suddenly" dry up.

And that dance is why we're here in the first place, with Trump as our president. The Democrats pushed the Republicans further right and the Rs ran with it. We've had 30 years of Republican (D) whose political theater has so far resulted in... gay marriage. Which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but that's what 30 years of political theater has bought us.

And you're willing to vote in the guy who authored the Crime Bill and think he's going to help with the police issue at all.
Did you actually read his plan? it is posted above. It is not the 30+ policy for the last 30 years. Look at the date on this policy update, it isn't what you think it is.
 

ObsidianJones

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I'd have to dig up someone else's post, but somebody on the forum already went through Biden's police plan and it's unchanged from the last 30+ years of policy that got us to where we are. The gist of it is there's money that's supposed to be earmarked for possibly useful things, but it's always operated as a slush fund to buy more tanks.

And any candidate that can't even demand a fracking ban doesn't have a climate policy worth listening to. That is like the most basic thing you can do, and Biden won't do it. I can safely blow off the rest of what he says because 100%, the political will for it will "suddenly" dry up.

And that dance is why we're here in the first place, with Trump as our president. The Democrats pushed the Republicans further right and the Rs ran with it. We've had 30 years of Republican (D) whose political theater has so far resulted in... gay marriage. Which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but that's what 30 years of political theater has bought us.

And you're willing to vote in the guy who authored the Crime Bill and think he's going to help with the police issue at all.
Obama said "my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

You're acting like Political Hopefuls don't have to play the entire field before getting into office before they can do what they actually intend to. Trump promised to help Urban Areas, stating that under Democratic leadership minorities were failed The result speaks for itself.

I sadly live in a state now that people get mad that they have to wear a mask for their own protection because it's a "Leftist, Socialist made up disease". An actual sentence I had to hear. A pandemic is political. Something with know fatalities is declared to be made up. Do you honestly think anyone can be real in a climate where truth and reason doesn't matter, just how you make me feel in the moment?

Like what happened after George W. Bush left office for Barack Obama..?
At the end of the presidency? When my point that pitting Republicans and Democrats against each other for an entire presidential term? Is that what we're talking about? Because if so, fine. Great. Show who you are after we have time to build up a real message and fire like the Tea Partiers did.

They ALL aren't in it on the same side. Blue dog dems and such showed their true colors by supporting Trump, however, progressives have no intention of doing so and we can use that to take the inches we need to get thing done. We Already knew that about Blue dog dems though. Using them to get a majority to set the agenda, then we have to bribe them to get something passed. Those bribes can be well worth it though we save lives doing so.

Hell, even Pelosi, with all her faults, was pushing for UBI and laughed out of the room back in like 2007 over a decade before Yang brought it up. Yang goes and does it and gets cheered and she is left sitting there going WTH? There isn't a republican out there that supports UBI. Where were the people cheering Yang when Pelosi pushed for it? Is it people only listen to what they want to?
I didn't do it in that last statement, but I've been making an effort to call ineffectual democrats Corporatists. I'm a proud Progressive, as you know. But until more than two parties are allowed in this country, Progressives must fall under the banner of Democrats. And I know sure as hell that Progressives will fight Republicans tooth and nail for real, while Corporatists will do it for show.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Obama said "my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

You're acting like Political Hopefuls don't have to play the entire field before getting into office before they can do what they actually intend to. Trump promised to help Urban Areas, stating that under Democratic leadership minorities were failed The result speaks for itself.

I sadly live in a state now that people get mad that they have to wear a mask for their own protection because it's a "Leftist, Socialist made up disease". An actual sentence I had to hear. A pandemic is political. Something with know fatalities is declared to be made up. Do you honestly think anyone can be real in a climate where truth and reason doesn't matter, just how you make me feel in the moment?
I've seen that too, but the number of people that loopy is neither high nor important. They're not people worth listening to, and pretending they have to be catered to or thought of is why the Democrat party is full of spineless cowards who are fully okay with handing this election to Trump, and why I have no interest in bailing them out. They've said they don't want my vote and I am absolutely okay with not giving it to them.
 

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I sadly live in a state now that people get mad that they have to wear a mask for their own protection because it's a "Leftist, Socialist made up disease". An actual sentence I had to hear. A pandemic is political. Something with know fatalities is declared to be made up. Do you honestly think anyone can be real in a climate where truth and reason doesn't matter, just how you make me feel in the moment?
You sound like you moved to my neck of the woods.. Florida, Texas.. same thing when dealing with conspiracy nuts.

I didn't do it in that last statement, but I've been making an effort to call ineffectual democrats Corporatists. I'm a proud Progressive, as you know. But until more than two parties are allowed in this country, Progressives must fall under the banner of Democrats. And I know sure as hell that Progressives will fight Republicans tooth and nail for real, while Corporatists will do it for show.
The thing is though Even the most progressive candidates can be the least effective if they can't muster up the votes to get what they need done. I don't see them all as corporatists. Even people who are fighting for us have to use bribes to actually get it done, not being willing to do that just means they are ineffective even if they are pure of heart .Bernie hasn't gotten near as much done as he would have liked, not for lack of trying, but lack of people willing to help him. He begged his OWN supporters to help him and listen to him both elections and they both ran off and listened to some GOP propaganda INSTEAD. Bernie BEGGED them to vote democrat and do whatever it takes to stop Trump did they listen? Hell no. They take the easy way out every. single. time. Stay home. Bernie says go vote bring your friends, make everyone vote we NEED every vote, so what they do? Nah. Hell they didn't even learn their lesson after all this, so they will just make it worse instead.

Truth is our leaders only have as much power as we give them. We, the people let this happen and want to blame them when we are the one's who failed. People are lazy and easily manipulated. We get tired, we don't want it to be " our responsibility to change this" it is easy to blame others, when the reality is we don't want to have to sit down and explain to every anti masker out there, every " their all just the same it makes no difference" person, to every "Biden's going to let them burn down the suburbs" person we run into. I admittedly have pulled that same thing the doctor did from the Lincoln project ad where they guy wakes up from the coma and "just excuse myself from the room" when someone says some stupid ignorant Trump shit in front of me because " it is the professional" thing to do. That I feel it won't make a difference and it is just a waste of my time to spend an hour explaining to my Mom that the " Chinese virus" wasn't made in a Chinese defense lab to kill Americans.

Trying to spend that effort every single time I hear it is exhausting. I don't want to talk to those people saying stupid, racist crap in the supermarket. I don't even want them to look at me, or have some anti masker cough on me and end my life. So yea, it is just as much my fault because I could do more to stop the misinformation, the reality is though it is exhausting to do so and it would take every single one of us doing so to even put a dent into it. That isn't happening because half of us trying to make any of this better actually believe some of this stupid crap and keep bickering while the world burns. See people like Trump are counting on us burning out, becoming discouraged and give up. That is how they win. That is how trump has won ALL of those thousands of lawsuits against him. I'm not sure if you remember it, but I had posted that video of that architect who designed Trump's favorite clubhouse on his gold course. He said that Trump didn't pay him what he had agreed to pay him. Instead, Trump sent his team of lawyers in there to bully him and tell him that it is their job to make sure he never gets paid. The delay it and exhaust his life savings in the process until he has nothing left. That is the type of parasite Trump is here. He just keeps up the lies and he cons to the point people just don't want to bother anymore because thy feel they have a better quality of life without him in it at all, and there is no amount of money he owes them that makes it worth it to ever have to deal with him again.

That is what we have been dealing with Trump's entire presidency. Constant barrage of BS and horrible things to the point people get exhausted. Then we have people here who have done nothing but tried to tear down the only people in office trying to oppose him at all this entire time. The only people trying to help the people at all, and expect them to try to fix all of this at the last second like some sort of superhero with super human powers to stop the green goblin Mitch McConnell from jizzing all over himself in his wet dream of a supreme court AFTER already appointing over 200+ judges THIS ENTIRE TIME everyone was ignoring happening and blaming everyone else. Like this one pick tonight some how makes a difference at all at this point in the end here. They were fine with letting the GOP sweep in 2016. This is the price we pay for that. This is the price we pay for not working harder to stop it, for getting tired, distracted and wanting to do anything else at all because the reality is there simply is not enough people willing to actually put forth the efforts and change these things, to counter the misinformation for anyone to take a break these days. Most people would rather obsess over their chosen hobby and ignore everything real happening in the world around them and it is easier now than ever to actually do. Unless that somehow changes, only expect tis to get worse.

I can't blame those actually trying to help us in congress when we are he ones who let them down by ignoring what they actually ask us to do.
 

Seanchaidh

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At the end of the presidency? When my point that pitting Republicans and Democrats against each other for an entire presidential term? Is that what we're talking about? Because if so, fine. Great. Show who you are after we have time to build up a real message and fire like the Tea Partiers did.
I was referring to how Obama didn't follow through on really any priority of the left-- to put it mildly.

Hope and Change -> Let's bail out the banks and encourage foreclosures. And let's not prosecute the fraudulent hedge fund managers.
Change we can believe in -> Let's hugely increase the number of drone strikes
Bush lied, people died -> Let's not prosecute the Bush administration for war crimes.
Let's close the Guantanamo Bay Prison! -> Eh, we tortured some folks. ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
We should get our troops out of Iraq. -> Umm, nevermind.
Inequality is the defining challenge of our time -> crush the Occupy movement
 

Elijin

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A system where voting for the party and policies you believe in is the wrong move? Where for "your vote to matter" it has to be placed against something instead of for something?
Fundamentally broken.

Just adopt a preferential voting system already.
 

fOx

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I AM VERY hostile to these STUPID ideas for good reason. First off, the people proposing them here are only trying to get Trump elected, and are doing NOTHING to help save my life, the lives of my friends, family, neighbors and millions of other Americans. They are only shitposting utter nonsense at this point to try to persuade people not to vote and offering no solutions to keep anyone alive until something better happens. Instead, they are actively trying to BLOCK something better happening in the meantime and make sure the party whose policies result in removing food, housing, medicine, and right to life to the poor, disabled and sick instead are able to do so. They are okay with me dying due to their actions, so why shouldn't I be hostile when they are only talking idiocy and have zero concern for me or anyone else for that matter?
I was going to stop talking, because I felt bad dragging kae into an argument on my behalf. But I need to respond to this.

I'm rather tired of your "woe is me" attitude. You pull it out in every comment you make, as if you're the only person suffering. So let me ask you this: given the fact that me and my family don't own healthcare, and not only couldn't afford it under biden's plan, but would be burdened under it, why should I vote for him? Since you care so much for other people? Why should I vote for someone who has promised to fund the police more then trump will, and whose idea of police reform is to shoot me and my people in the leg? Why should I vote for someone who was vice precident while out country committed war crimes overseas, including intentionally targeting underage people, and killing hundreds of innocent people with drones? Or that covered up war crimes committed in prisons, including rape and torture? You care so much for the victims here and on the border, and rightfully so. You say you get angry over it. Do those victims not matter? Your voting for the man who was vice president while all this happened. Why should I support someone who supports the bankers who caused the 2008 housing crises that made my elderly grandparents temporarily homeless, and then did nothing to hold them accountable while he himself was in office?

I don't have time for your victim complex, because I have pain, and I have experience too. You don't know what I've done, or seen, or experienced, or whether I've been politically active. You must be quite priveleged to be able to afford biden and harris. I, myself, cannot, anymore then I can trump. No one is going to help me or my family, or my community. I'm going to have to buck up and carry on regardless of who wins. It makes no material difference to me whatsoever. And you can try and say that I'm selfish for caring about that, but your reaction to the above issues makes me think that you are not different. You complain about kids in cages in america, while not caring at all about kids in graves in the midde east. Atleast I'm consistent enough to care about both. Maybe your going to tell me that biden is the lesser of two evils. But I'm no child, I remember life under obama, and it was fucking terrible for me and my family. And you can't blame bush for it, because while we were crying out for an inch of justice, obama turned away from us, and bailed wallstreet out. He didn't even hold them accountable in court. Do you think the families of the dead care at all about your talking points about voting for the lesser of two evils? To hear you say that their morally obligated to support biden, given what they've lost, is morally repugnant.

Nothing will change under your system. It's not practical, it's not effective, and most of all, it's not moral.
 
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lil devils x

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I understand that everyone has been having a shit time of this. I had to sell my own home to make sure my own parents weren't homeless as they were literally going to " lose the farm". So essentially everything I have worked my entire life for and saved for is already gone as well and I now have nothing to show for it either. No more savings. I exhausted that before I gave up and sold my own home but I didn't even get to keep the money for it as it was already spent, so no home and left empty handed so I could save my own family. I had to take in 2 of my sisters and their kids during this, One of my brother's IS homeless right now, My other brother who lost his ability to use his right thumb will be losing his home in the next month or so if congress doesn't pass this relief bill NOW. My other brother and his wife lost their home and moved back in with my mom. My father died. My middle brother was in an accident and has metal rods in his legs. My little sister was hit by a drunk driver and had her face put back on and I am the one in my family that everyone expects to be able to help.. I actually DO understand what is at stake here, that is WHY I am paying close attention to what is IN everything being done here and not just ignoring it. None of what Biden is proposing here is for the privileged FYI. Just read it.

1) If you cannot afford Healthcare under the ACA, would you not then be able to afford it under Biden's plan once the subsidies are increased to cover higher incomes and your family receives the tax credits coming in other areas? I have family members who can't afford insurance either, but they defer their monthly payments to their taxes and then they qualify to not have to pay them at all due to their income and the subsidies cover them entirely. With him raising the limits on this, it should allow a lot more people to qualify. The Public option is ALSO supposed to be another option as well that we currently do not have.

2) It is not the " privileged" that will be doing under Biden. In fact he is taxing the privileged to pay for this. Did you even read ANY of this? If you had actually read his plans, you would see he is the ONLY candidate we have trying to do any of this.

If you had you would see that he is POURING in funding for the areas the very areas you are complaining about here. Trying to stop evictions and preventing people like your family becoming homeless? yup, it's there Student loan debt forgiveness? Yup. Lower medications, better healthcare car plans and more subsidies? Yup.
Making rent+ utilities = 30% of your income
$8,000 tax credit per child.
A new Homeowner and Renter Bill of Rights.
Legal Assistance to Prevent Evictions Act of 2020
Legislation similar to the proposed HOME Act of 2019 to withhold some federal funds from states unless they develop โ€œinclusionary zoning.
Applying the Community Reinvestment Act to mortgage and insurance companies
Apply the 10-20-30 plan to all federal programs โ€“ at least 10% of the money must go to areas that have had 20% or more poverty over the last 30 years.
Continue to require communities receiving certain federal funds to be subject to the Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing Rule
Ensuring 100% of formerly incarcerated individuals โ€“ at the federal and state level โ€“ have housing upon release, and require entities in federal housing programs to participate
Create a comprehensive housing grant program tailored to survivors of domestic and sexual violence
Tackle racial bias that leads to homes in communities of color being assessed by appraisers below their fair value
Within the HOME program, establish a $100 billion Affordable Housing Fund to construct and upgrade affordable housing, including
$65 billion in new incentives for state housing authorities
$ 5 billion to increase the stock of affordable housing as part of larger community development efforts
$20 billion increased funding for the Housing Trust Fun
$13 billion over five years to enact the Ending Homelessness Act
$10 billion over ten years to expand flexible funding for the Community Development Block Grant
$5 billion every year to expand the New Markets Tax Credit program
$300 million for Local Housing Policy Grants
Increase resources for mental health services and substance use disorder treatment, including through the Projects for Assistance in Transition from Homelessness program
Increase funding for the Multi-Family Direct Loans and the Single Family Direct Loans programs at USDA
Expand access to the Supportive Housing for the Elderly (โ€œSection 202โ€) and Supportive Housing for Individuals with Disabilities (โ€œSection 811โ€) programs
If you attend a public college or university. Tuition would be free for four years if your family has an income below $125,000
If you attend a community college. Tuition would be free for two years if you hadnโ€™t previously pursued a postsecondary degree. You could also use these funds for a career-training program if it meets to-be-determined graduation and job placement rates
Biden healthcare centers around the public option
lowers Medicare age to 60
Increased subsidies and allow higher incomes to qualify to help plug the holes from the states who declined the Medicaid expansion and basing them on the gold plan instead of the silver plan.
End surprise billing
Prescription medication reform
This is ONLY a TINY portion of his plans he has come out here in the past couple of months. Did you just give up already and not bother to actually read them?

You are " claiming" you have to be privileged to vote for Biden, when his higher taxes only affect the " privileged" and his programs ONLY benefit the lower and middle class. The ONLY way you can claim "It's not practical, it's not effective, and most of all, it's not moral." is if you haven't even looked at his plans. Biden's plans actually do EXACTLY what you claim they don't. Where is the money trump is giving your community to help with affordable housing? You are claiming Biden isn't doing that, but you are not even looking at his plan. It is not even possible to look at his plan and then claim he isn't helping you or your community, because the teams who created his plans did exactly that. They figured out what communities needed and worked it into the plan and you would see that if you would just look at what's in his plans here. You gave up before ever reading anything.

ALSO , you are saying I complained about things that I think you have me confused with someone else on. And congress + DoJ is who prosecute and hold people accountable, not the president. The president isn't actually supposed to influence who is prosecuted as that is an abuse of power. Warren has been trying to hole bankers accountable, but Mitch + trump rolled back all her regulations. She still wants to pass law to hold bailout recipients accountable but democrat's need to control the senate for that.

Claiming the only path we have to do anything is not a solution, but then offering no actual plans or solutions that will change anything here. No plan to get from point A to B, C, D isn't better than the only actual plan we have right now. OF course we can just go back to our hidey holes and just let them crush us into nothing without having a voice at all by not voting, but I am not seeing that make any of this better either. I understand you likely didn't even want to read his plan because you hold him accountable for anything that happened while Obama was in office, but realistically here, not even Obama was responsible for everything that happened while he was in office. Trump and pence are not responsible for everything that has happened while they were in office either. They ARE responsible for their actions and policies though. Congress+ DoJ is responsible for prosecution and accountability of institutions though, not Trump Not Obama, Not Pence, Not Biden. I don't expect anyone to solve every problem, I just expect them to at least try to do what they told us they would to help. I put myself in their shoes and not just blame them for being human. None of us want their job and sadly atm, I think we are having problems finding decent people who will even try. I am worried we do not have people who can fill Bernie Sander's shoes. Elizabeth's Warren's shoes. Ruth Bader Ginsberg's Shoes. Who can get the message out there like Bernie? Who can write solid plans and make the numbers add up like Elizabeth? Who can bust down the doors and make the impossible possible like Ruth? I have no idea who we are supposed to replace these people with when they are gone. It is easy to complain about everything they didn't do, but who is offering to do something better at all and how do we get them the help they need to make it happen if we won't even listen to them in the first place?

Yea, voting Biden is the ONLY option we have right now because Trump's plan is to crush the middle and lower class entirely. NONE of this exists under Trump, in fact he would prefer to do away with ANY safety net all together. You have to pay attention to what is going on to know that though. It is like you took EXACTLY what Biden was doing here and claimed he was doing the opposite. Makes sense.
 
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A system where voting for the party and policies you believe in is the wrong move? Where for "your vote to matter" it has to be placed against something instead of for something?
Fundamentally broken.

Just adopt a preferential voting system already.
We can't do that though without winning control of the government first. We can't do anything until we actually win enough elections to do anything about any of it. IF we cannot win enough votes to even barely control the government, I have no idea how we could get enough votes to implement a new voting system all together.

I am not seeing that people are actually against any of what is in Biden's plans, I am For what is in Biden's plans for the most part. Does it go far enough? Of course not. But no one's plan does that is an option in the first place. I am pretty much seeing that people are just not even reading it at all and letting someone on twitter form their opinions of it for them instead or made up their mind before Biden even had his teams of experts finish his plans so they have no idea and don't even bother to find out before their mind as made.

I also see it as silly to suggest overthrowing the government as an option when the US has the most absurd military in the world and the wealthiest people in the world throwing all their money behind making sure that never ever happens all the while we cannot even gather enough people to vote out bad policies, yet they are expecting to accomplish this instead? LOL
 
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Elijin

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You managed to miss the point there. Im critical of the idea that you cant vote for the third party // independent which actually represents your views without being treated the way you're talking to people.

That any vote which isnt specifically against trump, is implicitly for trump. A political system where people are not being able to vote for what they believe in, but pressured to vote against other ideologies.
 
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You managed to miss the point there. Im critical of the idea that you cant vote for the third party // independent which actually represents your views without being treated the way you're talking to people.

That any vote which isnt specifically against trump, is implicitly for trump. A political system where people are not being able to vote for what they believe in, but pressured to vote against other ideologies.
In the US yes, because it takes ALL other parties in the US to band together or GOP wins every single time. That was how we wound up with trump in the first place, even though more people voted for Clinton. I am not a democrat. I actually am more green party than any other option but if I vote Green, GOP wins. That was why Bernie, an independent, ran as a democrat because by splitting the left vote at all to a 3rd party we get overrun by the white nationalist+ Evangelicals+ filthy rich and they literally make it so anything passed by progressives for the rest of our lives is deemed illegal by stacking the court. The winner takes all electoral college sees to that. We can't change it unless we have enough votes to amend the constitution and that is laughable because we don't even have enough votes to get a majority in the first place and have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get anything at all.

All votes in the US are not equal because it is a republic, not a democracy. We can't change the electoral system without amending the constitution which is near impossible since GOP will block it as it benefits them and we do not have the votes to do it . That is why the GOP is Actively campaigning for Bernie Supporters to not vote at all so that Trump will win.
 

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And?
My point is the system is fundamentally broken. You're just listing reasons that agree with that.
That is why I said we can only fix it by getting a majority, There exists no other plausible way for it to be changed. Bernie had a plan to change that, but had to toss it after 2016. He lost hope in that being able to happen due to 2016 changing the landscape to where it isn't likely to happen in our lifetimes anymore. If Trump had not won in 2016 due to the divided left, we would have been able to do something about it. Right now I see no path forward for it anymore. The left closed and locked the doors when they allowed trump to stack the courts. Trump just installed 200+ bright young judges to last the rest of our lives plus 3 supreme court seats. They control what is and is not legal for the rest of our lives unless we get 2/3rd of congress. EDIT: 2/3 of congress with grounds and willingness to impeach them all and amend the constitution. Unless one party controls the house, senate and white house you are completely powerless to do anything really.
 
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You managed to miss the point there. Im critical of the idea that you cant vote for the third party // independent which actually represents your views without being treated the way you're talking to people.

That any vote which isnt specifically against trump, is implicitly for trump. A political system where people are not being able to vote for what they believe in, but pressured to vote against other ideologies.
ALSO, I remember what these same people said in 2016 to help get Trump elected. They literally spread the same BS the Russian trolls were putting out and said " Trump wasn't as bad as everyone said he would be" . The reason I am critical of them now, is they helped Trump get elected in 2016 to cause this to happen at all right now. Normally, I am not as critical, but tbh, I, along with others who were here and had this conversation 4 years ago are a bit peeved at them for HELPING make this happen in 2016. Crimson literally told us how Trump was better than Clinton because he hadn't sold arms to Saudi Arabia. Others posted RT articles and other absurd disinformation and between me and a few others on here the disinformation flowed too fast to even correct it all at the time. There was a reason one of our nicer Mods at the time actually blew a gasket on them on election night. I am not saying what I am saying without foundation. It is a reaction rather than an initial action. They claimed to support Bernie then stabbed him in the back rather than help him do what he needed to do. :\
Now we have 200+ anti progressive judges and 3 supreme court seats because they thought it was okay to let Trump win. And not just say " I can't support either" at the time, they actually tried to say trump was the better solution. Those of us who were here then didn't forget..
 
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Elijin

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Look, I get what you are saying. I don't even really disagree with it.

What I am saying, is that I will forever be critical of a system where you cannot vote for the party that represents your political stances. That you vote for one of the big two, or are condemned for being a bystander to a certain side winning.

That is a garbage system and I doubt my mind will be changed on that.

I will continue to think it's shitty that people who vote for the party they support get treated poorly because of it, due to a flawed system. It completely undermines the concept of voting.
 
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lil devils x

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Look, I get what you are saying. I don't even really disagree with it.

What I am saying, is that I will forever be critical of a system where you cannot vote for the party that represents your political stances. That you vote for one of the big two, or are condemned for being a bystander to a certain side winning.

That is a garbage system and I doubt my mind will be changed on that.

I will continue to think it's shitty that people who vote for the party they support get treated poorly because of it, due to a flawed system. It completely undermines the concept of voting.
I 100% agree. I am 100% critical the terrible awful broken system that makes my vote not matter because I live in a deep red district surrounded by rabid Alex Jones fans (he actually grew up here) Trump supporters and literally have the KKK and neo Nazis literally fighting it out at my courthouse in my hometown here. My vote has been invalidated every year due to this system. I still vote anyway.( I am regretfully not even kidding or exaggerating about any of that, yes as scary as all that sounds.) It is a flawed system, but what are our options? What is our path forward? Give up and do nothing? Keep spreading information on how to change it while hoping people listen? The reason Bernie joined the dems was to try and change it. Right now our ONLY option is to do that, take them over and finally change it once and for all. I never said it was going to be easy. But it beats doing nothing or making it worse. I see no other path forward.


THIS is my life. Imagine having to walk around town with these people...
 

Elijin

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Keep in mind, I am not a US resident or citizen. I am voicing my opinion condemning it, from the outside. I am not advocating indifference or apathy from within by not suggesting a solution.

I am seeing something shitty, and I am saying "Hey, that's pretty shitty."
 

lil devils x

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Keep in mind, I am not a US resident or citizen. I am voicing my opinion condemning it, from the outside. I am not advocating indifference or apathy from within by not suggesting a solution.

I am seeing something shitty, and I am saying "Hey, that's pretty shitty."
It really is though. That is why I see no other option than to keep trying to finish Bernie's plan, even if he is not here to see it happen due to the Obstacles Trump and the GOP are throwing to try and prevent it from happening. The courts are going to be difficult to manage, but if we make Puerto Rico and DC states, we may just be able to pull it off eventually. I am just very worried about all the people who are not going to survive until then because of what the GOP are doing to them right now. For now, it is the ONLY path we even have anymore. No one is offering any other solutions.
 

Seanchaidh

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Um, didn't he pull troops out of Iraq? And wasn't that kind of what allowed ISIS to rise?
Iraq has been passing resolutions to get US troops out of Iraq after Trump took office.