Trump's income taxes published by NYT

tstorm823

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He doesn't have empathy, and he doesn't understand all manner of values you and I do.
Alternate theory: you don't have empathy, or at least you've decided to selectively ignore it for someone whose politics you disagree with. If you can't set your ego aside and try to understand the feelings of those at the top, you aren't employing empathy. Feeling for the poor and downtrodden is easy, but if that's all you feel for, that's not empathy, that's pity. You want empathy in the world? Try employing some.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Difference.

One is Illegal

The other legally allowed by the tax system designed so people can do just that.

According to Trump's case some of the write offs were for historical restoration or historic building preservations.


Alternate theory: you don't have empathy, or at least you've decided to selectively ignore it for someone whose politics you disagree with. If you can't set your ego aside and try to understand the feelings of those at the top, you aren't employing empathy. Feeling for the poor and downtrodden is easy, but if that's all you feel for, that's not empathy, that's pity. You want empathy in the world? Try employing some.
I'll add this as evidence for Trump.

Before the election last time even when Trump seemed like an outsider with no shot there were stories of how Trump treated waiters and other generally lower wage workers with a lot of respect. Tales oh how polite he was to them and giving rather surprisingly large tips (like higher than the cost of the meals in tips).

Also there were the supply Truck he sent down to help hurricane victims during his election campaign.

Actions speak louder than words and even if Trump really doesn't care. He puts on a good enough show of doing so and apparently was doing so even before his presidential bid based on the stories etc.
 

SupahEwok

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Required viewing for anybody who thinks that Trump is in Washington to fight for the little guy:


Transcript:

" Yes, ladies and gentlemen, these were the poor whites. I must tell you, I’ve never had a problem with white people ever in my life, but full disclosure… the poor whites are my least favorites. We’ve got a lot of trouble out of them. And I’ve never seen so many of them up close. I looked them right in their coal-smeared faces. And to my surprise… you know what I didn’t see? I didn’t see one deplorable face in that group. Saw some angry faces and some determined faces, but they felt like decent folk. No, they did. In fact, I’m not even lying, and not to sound fucked up, but I felt sorry for them. I know the game there. I know that rich white people call poor white people trash. And the only reason I know that is because I made so much money last year, the rich whites told me they say it at a cocktail party. And I’m not with that shit. I stood with them in line, like all of us Americans are required to do in a democracy, nobody skips the line to vote, and I listened to them. I listened to them say naive poor white people things. “Man, Donald Trump’s gonna go to Washington, and he’s gonna fight for us.” I’m standing there thinking in my mind, “You dumb ************. You are poor. He’s fighting for me.” "
 

Mister Mumbler

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Yeh but wasn't one of the argument even in 2016 being put out by Trump at one point being to close tax loopholes etc?
Ok but, even in 2016 no one should have bought that because he was openly gloating about how little he pays in taxes, which is usually done through these bullshit tax loopholes. Loopholes put in place with the consent of these businesses, if not just outright with industry types getting appointed to be Secretary of the Treasury (see all the Goldman Sachs chairs that got it from both parties).

This doesn't happen by accident, it's by design.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Ok but, even in 2016 no one should have bought that because he was openly gloating about how little he pays in taxes, which is usually done through these bullshit tax loopholes. Loopholes put in place with the consent of these businesses, if not just outright with industry types getting appointed to be Secretary of the Treasury (see all the Goldman Sachs chairs that got it from both parties).

This doesn't happen by accident, it's by design.
Which is why it's weird people suddenly care when it's Trump pulling this stuff (especially when some of the tax loopholes he seems to have used aren't that awful. I mean preservation of historic buildings. Walking away from deals taking 0 money back etc)
 

lil devils x

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Which is why it's weird people suddenly care when it's Trump pulling this stuff (especially when some of the tax loopholes he seems to have used aren't that awful. I mean preservation of historic buildings. Walking away from deals taking 0 money back etc)
What do you mean, " suddenly"? Caring about people exploiting tax loopholes wasn't invented just for Trump. Trump just put a huge spotlight on it saying " LOOK! I AM WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD!" By taking it is obscene and illegal levels...

 

Dwarvenhobble

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What do you mean, " suddenly"? Caring about people exploiting tax loopholes wasn't invented just for Trump. Trump just put a huge spotlight on it saying " LOOK! I AM WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD!" By taking it is obscene and illegal levels...

Which suggests people weren't noticing it or didn't care until Trump suddenly did this.
 

lil devils x

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Which suggests people weren't noticing it or didn't care until Trump suddenly did this.
There is nothing suggesting that at all. They have ben talking about this for ages now, talking about it when trump shows just how bad he did so as President of the United States. Him being president makes this even worse than the rest of the people we complain about. You not paying attention =\= it not happening. This wasn't about Trump specifically either:


People have been calling to do something about this long before Trump. Trump being president and doing it just makes it that much worse. Stop pretending like anyone ignored it, that isn't even remotely true. Normally, the people who are already angry about this issue would care when anyone does it, strangely though his supporters who were ranting about this a few years ago suddenly are okay with it when he does it because Trump can do no wrong.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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There is nothing suggesting that at all. They have ben talking about this for ages now, talking about it when trump shows just how bad he did so as President of the United States. Him being president makes this even worse than the rest of the people we complain about. You not paying attention =\= it not happening. This wasn't about Trump specifically either:


People have been calling to do something about this long before Trump. Trump being president and doing it just makes it that much worse. Stop pretending like anyone ignored it, that isn't even remotely true. Normally, the people who are already angry about this issue would care when anyone does it, strangely though his supporters who were ranting about this a few years ago suddenly are okay with it when he does it because Trump can do no wrong.
and yet some people still only seem to care because it's Trump not other Multi-millionaires / Billionaires..........
 

Dalisclock

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and yet some people still only seem to care because it's Trump not other Multi-millionaires / Billionaires..........
Sometimes it takes one particularly obnoxious shit to give everyone a shining example of the problems epidemic with the system. In this case, it's Trump. He's a Billionaire who's president and constantly acts like a flaming turd. So yeah, people tend to notice him more then Jeff Bezos, who is mostly known for "Online megastore that delivers overnight" not so much for it's efforts to prevent Amazons employees from unionizing because god forbid they have more control over their work hours and wages.

If you really haven't noticed that people have been mad about this stuff for a while, you haven't been paying attention. Why you do think Bernie Sanders has gotten so much attention in recent years(Hint: It's not because 79 year old vermonters are the new trend among the youths)? Aside from the fact Bernie projects genuine empathy for people other than people who agree with him unconditionally, something that cannot be said for Trump.
 
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lil devils x

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and yet some people still only seem to care because it's Trump not other Multi-millionaires / Billionaires..........
LOl sounds like you have never listened to ANYTHING out of Bernie Sanders mouth or as Dalisclock mentioned, that is the single most reason why Bernie has gained so much support. This issue explains the rise of Bernie Sanders. This is one of those issues that the 99% of the US can unite around. Did you forget about Occupy wallstreet already?
 

Agema

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Alternate theory: you don't have empathy, or at least you've decided to selectively ignore it for someone whose politics you disagree with. If you can't set your ego aside and try to understand the feelings of those at the top, you aren't employing empathy. Feeling for the poor and downtrodden is easy, but if that's all you feel for, that's not empathy, that's pity. You want empathy in the world? Try employing some.
If we're just going to ad hominem each other, I'd say that you have an overwhelming psychological need to ignore all Trump's decades of immorality, failings and incompetence, because it's the only way you can cope with the cognitive dissonance of such a clusterfuck of a human being representing your beloved party.

Yes, I remember all those posts where you'd act like the Republicans were all sober-suited, serious, upright people - the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower. That party's dead a long time back: it's just that you can't let go of the fantasy.
 

Agema

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Before the election last time even when Trump seemed like an outsider with no shot there were stories of how Trump treated waiters and other generally lower wage workers with a lot of respect. Tales oh how polite he was to them and giving rather surprisingly large tips (like higher than the cost of the meals in tips).

Also there were the supply Truck he sent down to help hurricane victims during his election campaign.

Actions speak louder than words and even if Trump really doesn't care. He puts on a good enough show of doing so and apparently was doing so even before his presidential bid based on the stories etc.


You're right, actions do matter. What do you think happens when Trump doesn't pay his bills? Businesses lose money for their work, shrink, lay off staff. So is it "respecting workers" to go in and make a showy, cosmetic display to seem magnanimous, and then stiff them where it matters behind closed doors?

Always look behind the veneer.
 

tstorm823

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If we're just going to ad hominem each other, I'd say that you have an overwhelming psychological need to ignore all Trump's decades of immorality, failings and incompetence, because it's the only way you can cope with the cognitive dissonance of such a clusterfuck of a human being representing your beloved party.

Yes, I remember all those posts where you'd act like the Republicans were all sober-suited, serious, upright people - the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower. That party's dead a long time back: it's just that you can't let go of the fantasy.
See, this isn't empathy. This isn't you trying to understand my thoughts and feelings, this is you rationalizing your own hatred in whatever way you can.
 

Agema

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See, this isn't empathy. This isn't you trying to understand my thoughts and feelings, this is you rationalizing your own hatred in whatever way you can.
No, you're right, that's not me trying to understand your feelings. That's just me saying if you want to make offensive assumptions about me, I'll just make some offensive assumptions about you.
 

tstorm823

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No, you're right, that's not me trying to understand your feelings. That's just me saying if you want to make offensive assumptions about me, I'll just make some offensive assumptions about you.
I'm not doing that, but if you consider these things offensive assumptions, you do that to Trump as a default. You feel offended to be called unempathetic?
He doesn't have empathy, and he doesn't understand all manner of values you and I do.
Take your own medicine.
 

Agema

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I'm not doing that, but if you consider these things offensive assumptions, you do that to Trump as a default.
No, I don't do it to Trump as a "default". I do it on the evidential basis of the considerable amount of evidence about his behaviour over the years, the opinion of a great number of people with qualifications who have looked at the same evidence, and other people who have known him including his clinical psychologist niece who will know him somewhat better than most.



"Narcissism is characterized by a grandiose sense of self-importance, a lack of empathy for others, a need for excessive admiration, and the belief that one is unique and deserving of special treatment."

What is complicated about his lifelong history of relentless cheating, lying, self-promotion, self-absorption, sexual assault, bullying and belittling of others? What more do we need? Do you think after 7 decades of this, he wandered into he White House and suddenly became a decent person?
 

ralfy

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No, I don't do it to Trump as a "default". I do it on the evidential basis of the considerable amount of evidence about his behaviour over the years, the opinion of a great number of people with qualifications who have looked at the same evidence, and other people who have known him including his clinical psychologist niece who will know him somewhat better than most.



"Narcissism is characterized by a grandiose sense of self-importance, a lack of empathy for others, a need for excessive admiration, and the belief that one is unique and deserving of special treatment."

What is complicated about his lifelong history of relentless cheating, lying, self-promotion, self-absorption, sexual assault, bullying and belittling of others? What more do we need? Do you think after 7 decades of this, he wandered into he White House and suddenly became a decent person?
That reminds me of this 2012 article about sociopaths and politicians: