Try to Wrap Your Head Around This New Big Bang Theory Idea

Rhykker

Level 16 Scallywag
Feb 28, 2010
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Try to Wrap Your Head Around This New Big Bang Theory Idea


Researchers suggest a new origin for our universe: it is a three-dimensional "wrapping" around a four-dimensional black hole's event horizon.

13.7 billion years ago, the Big Bang [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/132969-Big-Bang-Smoking-Gun-Found-Possible-Nobel-Prize-Coming] led to the creation of our universe. It's a solid theory - solid enough for it to be the prevailing model that scientists base themselves on, because it explains a number of phenomena we observe in the universe.

But what caused the Big Bang? What came before it?

"Cosmology's greatest challenge is understanding the Big Bang itself," write Perimeter Institute Associate Faculty member Niayesh Afshordi, Affiliate Faculty member and University of Waterloo professor Robert Mann, and PhD student Razieh Pourhasan. But they've developed a new idea that may hold the answer.

The current Big Bang model has this cosmic eruption originate from a singularity - the center of a defies our understanding of physics [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131663-Stephen-Hawking-Claims-There-Are-No-Black-Holes].

The researchers suggest that perhaps our universe is the three-dimensional mirage of a phenomenon in a four-dimensional universe. Consider a black hole; in our universe, a black hole has a two-dimensional event horizon (the "point of no return," where gravity becomes too powerful to possibly escape). But a theoretical four-dimensional black hole would then have a three-dimensional event horizon. In their model, the researchers believe that our universe may be the three-dimensional "wrapping" around a four-dimensional black hole's event horizon.

Did I lose you? It can be difficult to conceptualize, but mathematically, it works out. And science is filled with examples of concepts that seem absurd but are mathematically possible [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/scienceandtech/columns/forscience/11746-5-Faster-Than-Light-Travel-Methods-and-Their-Plausibility]. In the researchers' scenario, the universe came into being outside the event horizon of a singularity created by the death of a star in a four-dimensional universe.

Now, before you say, "We already live in a 4D universe - the fourth dimension is time," let's clarify that these researchers mean four spatial dimensions. And because we have no way of conceptualizing what four-dimensional space would look like, that is why we have an incomplete picture - and consequently understanding - of the cosmos.

Of course, this simply passes the buck on the issues of the origin of the universe. Even if we know where our 3D universe came from, then where did its parent 4D universe come from? Let's hear your wildest theories.


Source: ScienceDaily [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140807145618.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29&utm_content=FaceBook]

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Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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While it's definitely interesting, I agree with the "passing the buck" comment.

And I really wonder what a fourth "spatial" dimension would look like.
 

Roxor

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Nov 4, 2010
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Zachary Amaranth said:
While it's definitely interesting, I agree with the "passing the buck" comment.

And I really wonder what a fourth "spatial" dimension would look like.
Some people have written 4D games. I remember a 4D maze game. Takes half an hour to solve a 3*3*3*3 maze. There's also 4D Rubik's Cube puzzles out there, too.

Captcha: time is an illusion

Where does it get these oddly relevant lines from?
 

Tony2077

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Dec 19, 2007
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i wonder if we'll ever find out which of these origin ideas is right and if that group will ever accept the big bang
 

Ferisar

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Oct 2, 2010
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Ultratwinkie said:
So let me get this right.

Universe 1 has a hole in it. Stuff from that hole fell out and created our universe? Am I following?

So does that mean all universes follow a fountain pattern?

You know, spout water from the top then it falls on a "shelf" that we call a universe then overflows into a lower shelf?

So do our black holes create universes too? Or is that universe a special snowflake?
Black Holes aren't really... holes. They're just high-density high-gravity objects that don't allow even light to escape from their pull. (It's kind of neat, actually. A Black Hole with the same mass as our Sun, for instance, wouldn't effect much of anything in the solar system. We should simply continue orbiting around it since the mass is the same. Wonder how it would look...) The "Horizon" is the point at which light can no longer escape the black hole, it's not actually a surface of any kind. I think what the theory means is that since the black holes in our universe have a two-dimensional even horizon (aka, they only exist in two spatial dimensions) and are created from massive solar deaths, that black holes in a four-dimensional universe would have a three-dimensional event horizon, which represents... our reality, essentially?

I guess nothing is falling through anywhere, it's more of a "stuff perceived under the conditions it provides" type of thing. Since we exist in a three-dimensional world, we wouldn't be able to readily comprehend the universe outside that.

I'm not a physicist or an astrophysicist of any sort, though. Mostly just going off of some basic stuff that I know. If it has any merit you have to wonder what does that actually mean in the contest of 4D to us, or otherwise. But, again, I'm not educated enough on the matter.

EDIT:
Oh, and following this, yeah, our black holes should then technically create a world, one that exists in only two-dimensions of space, if following the logic of this premise correctly.

EDIT2:
Also, while a very interesting idea, it's a bit hard to take at face value. I can digest it, which is always nice when it comes to scientific theories, but as far as its plausibility beyond being entirely hypothetical is left to someone who has more knowledge on the matter. Sometimes I wish I had some education in these fields to actually understand it beyond the concept.
 

PrinceOfShapeir

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Mar 27, 2011
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Ultratwinkie said:
So let me get this right.

Universe 1 has a hole in it. Stuff from that hole fell out and created our universe? Am I following?

So does that mean all universes follow a fountain pattern?

You know, spout water from the top then it falls on a "shelf" that we call a universe then overflows into a lower shelf?

So do our black holes create universes too? Or is that universe a special snowflake?
Black Holes aren't doors. They're pits. A black hole is nothing more than a massive amount of matter compressed into a miniscule space, White Holes were a baseless hypothesis.
 

Ferisar

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Oct 2, 2010
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Ultratwinkie said:
PrinceOfShapeir said:
Ultratwinkie said:
So let me get this right.

Universe 1 has a hole in it. Stuff from that hole fell out and created our universe? Am I following?

So does that mean all universes follow a fountain pattern?

You know, spout water from the top then it falls on a "shelf" that we call a universe then overflows into a lower shelf?

So do our black holes create universes too? Or is that universe a special snowflake?
Black Holes aren't doors. They're pits. A black hole is nothing more than a massive amount of matter compressed into a miniscule space, White Holes were a baseless hypothesis.
yes I know nothing escapes them, that's why i had to ask if I was following was right. They make it seem like they actually went anywhere since a creation of a black hole in one universe creating another universe entirely is kinda abstract. That and it was very similar to the old idea of our universe getting its material from another one.

The only difference here is instead of membranes they mention black holes.
They do mention a membrane, one that wraps around this "higher space" black hole in which our reality is housed, thus the whole "mirage" bit. We don't exist beyond the event horizon of a black hole in a higher plane, we exist around it, except in three dimensions instead of two like in our universe.

That's the gist of it, anyhow, as far as I'm seeing.
 

Vigormortis

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Nov 21, 2007
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Um...wait a second.

If I accept this hypothesis as plausible I'm left with a number of questions:

1: Where did the massive amount of matter and energy that exist in our universe come from? Dimensional wrapping doesn't really explain this, as far as I know, and I'm not buying the idea that a four dimensional star going nova would emit enough matter and energy to fill our universe.

2: If we're a three dimensional event horizon of a four dimensional black hole why do we not experience the influence of the black hole? Shouldn't any matter the black hole tossed into this three dimensional space still feel the effects of the black hole's gravity, or at least contain some remnant of that influence? Unless they're implying that the fundamental forces,or perhaps forces like dark energy are signs of this influence.

3: Hypothetically, if we're the event horizon of a four dimensional black hole, shouldn't we be seeing or at least experiencing some effects from the matter falling into that black hole? Granted, our "creator" black hole may not be feeding, but even the influx of light from external star light should have some effect, no?

I don't know. This sounds like a very intriguing hypothesis, and in some ways it could explain a number of mysteries we've yet to solve about the universe, but it seems to present more problems than it seeks to solve.

I'll definitely have to read into this further before I jump to any conclusions.
 

Ratty

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Jan 21, 2014
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Zachary Amaranth said:
While it's definitely interesting, I agree with the "passing the buck" comment.

And I really wonder what a fourth "spatial" dimension would look like.
We can't really know of course but Carl Sagan elaborated on ways we might come to some slight understanding of it in the original "Cosmos" series. In the interests of education here it is.
 

Cerebrawl

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Feb 19, 2014
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This falls into "yeah I understand your concept, it's just really stupid".

Heck the people who hypothesised that the universe is actually 2D, and that what we experience is a hologram projected from that, sound more reasonable than this. [link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle [/link]

And to be clear, I don't buy that hypothesis either.
 

The Ditz

Lord of the Never There
Dec 18, 2012
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No,no,no... you guys got it all wrong, each universe is a bubble in a great froth!
... the matter in each bubble is simply filth from god's bath being collected in our sudsy goodness.
Here, I have pamphlets... *passes out "Cleanliness is next to Godliness: the soapy word and you"*
 

ascorbius

Numberwanger
Nov 18, 2009
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I think Fez explains the extra dimension perception problem fairly well.

If we were to see this 4th dimension, it'd be like Gomez able to perceive the 3D world when everyone else is stuck only ever being able to understand a 2D universe.

It doesn't explain the blackhole part, but hey - Games can't do everything. ;-)
 

kurokotetsu

Proud Master
Sep 17, 2008
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I don't see what is si hard about this theory. It bases its results probably in the same math that brought us the Holographic Principle. That being that the information that falls in a Black hole is preserved in its event horizon. So a an object that falls in a Black hole gets destroyed for its Universe, it really survives in the boundary of the Black hole it fell into. And considering that the surface of a n-sphere is in n - 1 dimensions it one could see it as losing a spatial dimension once it fall into the Black hole. Interesting result.
 

Piorn

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Dec 26, 2007
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So we're a 3-Dimensional drawing on a 4-D blackboard, alright.
So does that 4-Dimenional Canvas also live in a 4D Universe, which is in turn just painted on a 5-D Blach hole?
So it's turtles all the way down...
 

Vivi22

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Aug 22, 2010
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Vigormortis said:
Um...wait a second.

If I accept this hypothesis as plausible I'm left with a number of questions:

1: Where did the massive amount of matter and energy that exist in our universe come from? Dimensional wrapping doesn't really explain this, as far as I know, and I'm not buying the idea that a four dimensional star going nova would emit enough matter and energy to fill our universe.

2: If we're a three dimensional event horizon of a four dimensional black hole why do we not experience the influence of the black hole? Shouldn't any matter the black hole tossed into this three dimensional space still feel the effects of the black hole's gravity, or at least contain some remnant of that influence? Unless they're implying that the fundamental forces,or perhaps forces like dark energy are signs of this influence.

3: Hypothetically, if we're the event horizon of a four dimensional black hole, shouldn't we be seeing or at least experiencing some effects from the matter falling into that black hole? Granted, our "creator" black hole may not be feeding, but even the influx of light from external star light should have some effect, no?
I certainly can't claim to have the answers to these questions, but I'm not sure our experiences with a 3D universe are particularly comparable to what would happen in a 4D universe. It's something we truly would have no intuitive understanding of, and may not even be subject to the same sort of physical laws our universe is (hell, it almost certainly wouldn't be).
 

Lvl 64 Klutz

Crowsplosion!
Apr 8, 2008
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Rhykker said:
Of course, this simply passes the buck on the issues of the origin of the universe. Even if we know where our 3D universe came from, then where did its parent 4D universe come from? Let's hear your wildest theories.
Obviously it was projected from the event horizon of a black hole in a 5D universe. Which, naturally was projected from the event horizon of a black hole in a 6D universe.

(I was going to trail off, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to change font size on this forum)