Tsukihime (translation: like a game, but you don't play it and it's terrible!)

Unesh52

New member
May 27, 2010
1,375
0
0
Edit: Who thinks my review is too long? I thought it might be.

I recently started looking for a more interesting form of adult entertainment, and I was recommended onto the ero scene by some users. Ero games are basically interactive novels that focus on character development and depend, if not entirely, on the character's sexualities. It's like playing through the back story of a hentai, then watching the hentai itself. My first experience with this genre is Tsukihime, by virtue of the fact that I could get it for free -- and thank god I didn't spend money on it.

This review is actually copied (with edits, for sense and anonymity) from a PM I sent to the person who recommended the title to me. It's not very well organized, but it is technically a review; since I've never done one before I figured I'd post it for fun :)

[HEADING=3]Intro[/HEADING]

Tsukihime follows the exploits of Thono Shiki, a 17 year-old boy who gains special powers after a near death experience in his childhood. Now he sees black lines everywhere that signify the non-existence inherent in all things around him, making him capable of destroying anything at will just by tracing the lines with a thin object. His only refuge from this huge responsibility is a pair of enchanted glasses given to him as a child. Due to the mysterious circumstances around the incident, he was sent away from his large mansion to live with some estranged relatives for 8 years. Upon his Father's death, he is summoned to return by his dictatorial and now unfamiliar sister. Soon, he is embroiled in a large-scale, underground war between vampires and the Catholic church as he is forced to reconcile his power with his humanity and make sacrifices for the sake of those he loves.

If that summary sounds exciting to you, then 1) I should pat myself on the back, and 2)don't get your hopes up. It's not what it seems. Not that I hated everything about this game, but I have had more fun reading high-way billboards. On to the review.

[HEADING=3]Good Stuff[/HEADING]

As far as the plot goes, it's decent. It's complex and interesting, full of twists and turns to keep me excited. Though the powers and origins of the super characters seem to be a little arbitrary and plot-contingent, not to mention confusing. I could hardly grasp a tenuous understanding before all my shit got retconned into something that facilitated the current action better.

The characters are... well, a little one note. I should say two note, actually, but the second one is the one they share. They all have their respective personality quirks (Akiha is strict, Ciel is playful, Arcuid is oblivious), but alternatively they all have this "serious" mode (that the game mentions by name ad nauseum) which they use to relate important plot points or to ineffectively mask their secret desire for Shiki's dick. That aside, they were all neat little caricatures; unique enough to be identifiable, but too unreal and flat for me to sympathize with.

The music, being a remix of the original that I downloaded, was good. I especially like the "scary" theme. It's anxious, repetitive notes really spiced up the more mysterious parts. Unfortunately, there's just too much of it. I occasionally found myself rushing through whole sections just to get to a different sound loop. Of course, I'm the type who had to play Pokemon with the sound off because the music annoyed me, so maybe that's not the game's fault.

[HEADING=3]Not So Good Stuff[/HEADING]

Sadly, the above was the complimentary side of my opinion. Let's get to the heart of the matter now. First, I thought the art was flat out ugly. Oh the character sprites were alright, but the blurry water-color backgrounds just felt like cheating half the time. Especially since they're alone on screen almost as much as the characters super-impose them. More importantly, they miss opportunities left and right. I would've loved to see Arcuid sliced into 17 pieces on her kitchen floor, or Roa turned into a wall-mounted shish-ka-bob. And there's one scene where Shiki is attacked by what is only described as a "spider-crab" three times the size of an elephant -- and that's all I get. No pic, it's not even given more description. The game says "he 'killed' it with his knife" and moves the fuck on! I wish I was exaggerating with my paraphrase, but no. Then there's the sex. Every character has this pained expression or a weird, hungry look on their face in every sex scene. And if it's got to be censored, why do they do it so ineffectively? It just looks like someone sneezed on their privates during production and no one bothered to fix it. Like we don't know what's happening or something.

Then there's the "interactivity." This is supposed to be what makes it a game, but it's really just a touted up choose-your-own-adventure novel. That might be ok if the choices came more than once every hour or more. And it doesn't even matter what choices you make because the choices rarely, if ever, reflect the nature of the consequences. Unless you have the guide you can't be sure you'll get the desired result. Meta-gaming, btw, tends to really fuck up immersion. And sometimes it's made terribly unclear what will kill you. Once I had a choice between staying in the hotel room and going into the hall. The latter, as I expected, led to me getting attacked by some animals, but the former caused to door to explode before I got eaten by a damn shark. I guess it makes sense after you pick the right choice, but at the time I was like "...what the fuck was that?"

The sex was a sampler platter of (usually inappropriate) sado-masochistic fetishism that I just could never get on board with. Like I mentioned, every encounter features the girl looking like she got cock slapped into submission a second ago and usually involves one or the other party getting held down while the other violently forces a body part inside them (I got thumb in the dick hole twice, and that's just a mood killer). Not only that, but it tends to be completely out of context/character. The relationship I ended up with (I tried for another but apparently I did it wrong) was Arcuid, and your first official "encounter" with her involves you raping her in an alley-way. And somehow she not only let's it happen (she's supposed to have super powers), but afterward she's just like "oh, don't worry about it." Even when it's consensual later, Shiki still manages to rape her with abandon, leaving her bruised, bloody, and crying on the bedspread (yet supposedly begging for more!). To top it off, the scenes tend to ignore or imagine clothes where it's convenient and the participants end up in impossible or at least uncomfortable positions, like when Shiki holds Arcuid's hands over her head while he bites her clit (this being before he actually takes her pants off). Actually, that scene neatly encapsulates everything I hated about the ero: "Ow! Why!? ...wait, what the fuck?"

And finally, the true festering cancer of this experience, the problem that accentuates or even creates most of the other problems: the writing. The style, diction, and even grammar in some places are just abominable. It's hard to articulate just how bad it is. Characters spout endless torrents of redundant, glib verbiage. The descriptions are almost devoid of imagery, defeating the purpose. The structure is often confusing, which the writers apparently tried to compensate for by repeating the same plot points and characterizations with at least every alternating new development. The story just seems to drag on and on because it never gets to the point, and when it does it stays there for like 6 or 7 pages. I could probably count the combined different adverbs and adjectives used on my fingers and still have enough to type. And then there's that weird, phonetic type describing the equally peculiar sounds that people in Japan apparently all make. "kk... gnu.. mhn, uh! Arc... u.. id?" They compose the brunt of the sex scenes where they are distinctly unnecessary and not sexy. Reading this was like trying to watch a movie at the bottom of a lake. Sure, I could see it, but my eyes stung and I had to go up every few minutes for air. Alight, alright, some of this can be blamed on the translators, but certainly not all of it. Frankly I was surprised when the credits rolled and I found out it was developed by more than 5 people. Then I was shocked that it had been proof-read. But I was flabbergasted to find out it had actually been play tested -- multiple times in both translations. I could even see the other flaws making it through, but this writing could make my 4th grade english teacher faint.

[HEADING=3]Closing[/HEADING]

So that's that. I wish I could've appreciated it more, but in the end playing through it was a big chore. And despite the multiple paragraphs, I can still think of things to complain about, but those mostly have to do with conventions of anime and erotic entertainment, so I won't bother mentioning them. Are all ero games like this?

Oh, and what the capital FUCK happened to that red haired chick from the beginning of the game? How was she an ancillary character?
 

Gigano

Whose Eyes Are Those Eyes?
Oct 15, 2009
2,281
0
0
I think you've should have started out with one of the eroge games NeutralDrow recommends in his (very elaborate, articulate, and thorough) reviews; I've read a few, and they usually require a great story, platforms for emotional attachment and non-objectionable (i.e. non-coercive) sex to be labeled worth playing.

Haven't played any eroge myself, despite being fairly curious about them (the recommended ones seem prohibitively expensive or hard to acquire in Europe). But I'd think they're in different in content as any other media, and that there are very good ones out there.

It seem like it'll take some adjustment from "regular" video games in the gameplay aspects though. From what I've seen, it looks like something harkening back to the days of oldschool text adventures. But I wouldn't write off Eroge just yet if it's not boss fight one's there for.

And thanks for elaborating on the miseries of this particular title. They all seem like valid complaints (or at least ones I'd have made as well), so I'll be sure to avoid it should I ever feel (rich and adventurous enough to be) getting into the genre.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Now, I realize that I already elaborated on this with you via PM, but I'll just restate it here.

There aren't words to describe how much I disagree with you.

Except regarding the sex scenes, those are legitimately terrible. That's why I always point out that the patch can remove them.

Imperator_DK said:
I think you've should have started out with one of the eroge games NeutralDrow recommends in his (very elaborate, articulate, and thorough) reviews; I've read a few, and they usually require a great story, platforms for emotional attachment and non-objectionable (i.e. non-coercive) sex to be labeled worth playing.
He did.

I'm the guy he's referring to, who recommended this game to him.

And thanks for elaborating on the miseries of this particular title. They all seem like valid complaints (or at least ones I'd have made as well), so I'll be sure to avoid it should I ever feel (rich and adventurous enough to be) getting into the genre.
<url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s>...

His valid complaints were about the sex scenes (which again, can be turned off) and maybe the artwork (the game is very low-budget).

I disagree <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.128851-TYPE-MOON-reviews-Tsukihime>entirely about the writing. This being a visual novel, the "interactivity" is of course limited (it's not a dating sim, it's more of a book). And you can't really make judgments on the characters when you only played through the 1/5 of the game that has most of them hanging out in the periphery.
 

Gigano

Whose Eyes Are Those Eyes?
Oct 15, 2009
2,281
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
All right, that certainly does put it in a different light. Since I've never played the title (or read the other review you linked), I wouldn't know anything of the writing except how it's described in this review; and something fitting that description would've put me off as well. Seems that's not necessarily the case though. And that I've made quite a fool of myself :)

Why did you recommend an eroge with terrible and coercive sex scenes though, even if the writing & story was otherwise top notch? I got the impression (on that thread a while back about tiring of porn, which I assume sparked this) that the OP wanted something more emotional and with build-up, but which could still fill in for pornography in the end.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Imperator_DK said:
NeutralDrow said:
All right, that certainly does put it in a different light. Since I've never played the title (or read the other review you linked), I wouldn't know anything of the writing except how it's described in this review; and something fitting that description would've put me off as well. Seems that's not necessarily the case though. And that I've made quite a fool of myself :)
Not necessarily. I wasn't going to say anything, really; like I said, summer and I already had it out via PM, and while I don't agree (to say the least) with most of the stuff he said, I can at least understand that this just wasn't what he was expecting to play or enjoying while he did.

On the other hand, I do have a very vested interest in not having people driven away from the games I recommend before they at least try them, let alone by an opinion that I have severe disagreements with, let alone that opinion apparently influencing someone I've spoken with before (and who knows my reputation). I just panicked, in other words.

Why did you recommend an eroge with terrible and coercive sex scenes though, even if the writing & story was otherwise top notch? I got the impression (on that thread a while back about tiring of porn, which I assume sparked this) that the OP wanted something more emotional and with build-up, but which could still fill in for pornography in the end.
Partly because I always put far, far more stock in the quality of the story than the quality of the sex. Not just because it's more comfortable and easier to focus on the one, but also because in the games I frequent most, sex is a vanishingly small percentage of the game (I think the only exception so far that I actually enjoyed is <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.148564-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Little-My-Maid>Little My Maid), and because quite a few people I've spoken to aren't comfortable with any sex in the games they play.

Partly because this is an eroge with terrible sex scenes that you can turn off.

And partly because I'm one of the very, very few people who don't mind most the scenes in this game. None of the consensual scenes feel out of place in the buildup, I get immersed in things very easily, and I have a preternatural ability to ignore certain implications while I am. It's pretty much only when I read the scenes out of context that I realized just how bad they were. Not applying, of course, to those scenes that are supposed to be completely disturbing, which are a lot of them (this is psychological horror, after all).
<color=aliceblue>Line break.

Overall, though, I'm a little trapped in my recommendations. To be honest, the game I recommend above all is <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.135672-Neutral-Drow-reviews-A-Drug-That-Makes-You-Dream?page=3>A Drug That Makes You Dream. That said, even though I've had a much higher success rate with that game, I'm paranoid about recommending it to people because it still costs money (similar problem with Kana: Little Sister). I mean, I know people can acquire them in other ways, but I don't really condone that, even though I'd turn a blind eye.

That pretty much leaves me with Tsukihime, Fate/Stay Night, and Kanon as the ones that require torrenting or download. I always worry about recommending <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.163769-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Kanon>Kanon to people (even though I enjoyed the game immensely, far more than even that review might indicate). I've noticed almost as much contempt here for moe as I have for sex, even while I know the game to be deeper than that.

Of the other two, I tend to favor recommending Tsukihime for a few reasons. A) It was my own first visual novel, B) it's somewhat shorter (Fate/Stay Night is as long as most three given VNs put together), C) it has a "non-ero" option (FSN doesn't have one, yet, though there's even less sex...and I honestly believe the scenes are better), and D) Fate/Stay Night has much, much higher production values (it was Type-Moon's first game after they incorporated), meaning going back to the "two guys with a shoestring budget" Tsukihime can be pretty jarring.
 

Gigano

Whose Eyes Are Those Eyes?
Oct 15, 2009
2,281
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
Not necessarily. I wasn't going to say anything, really; like I said, summer and I already had it out via PM, and while I don't agree (to say the least) with most of the stuff he said, I can at least understand that this just wasn't what he was expecting to play or enjoying while he did.

On the other hand, I do have a very vested interest in not having people driven away from the games I recommend before they at least try them, let alone by an opinion that I have severe disagreements with, let alone that opinion apparently influencing someone I've spoken with before (and who knows my reputation). I just panicked, in other words.
Well, I'm glad you brought to my attention that I'd been a bit hasty in filing the game under "don't ever play". It now seem more like a (legitimate) difference in the view of what the purpose and gameplay of an eroge should be like rather than it being a bad eroge in its own right.

Partly because I always put far, far more stock in the quality of the story than the quality of the sex. Not just because it's more comfortable and easier to focus on the one, but also because in the games I frequent most, sex is a vanishingly small percentage of the game (I think the only exception so far that I actually enjoyed is <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.148564-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Little-My-Maid>Little My Maid), and because quite a few people I've spoken to aren't comfortable with any sex in the games they play.

Partly because this is an eroge with terrible sex scenes that you can turn off.

And partly because I'm one of the very, very few people who don't mind most the scenes in this game. None of the consensual scenes feel out of place in the buildup, I get immersed in things very easily, and I have a preternatural ability to ignore certain implications while I am. It's pretty much only when I read the scenes out of context that I realized just how bad they were. Not applying, of course, to those scenes that are supposed to be completely disturbing, which are a lot of them (this is psychological horror, after all).
<color=aliceblue>Line break.

Overall, though, I'm a little trapped in my recommendations. To be honest, the game I recommend above all is <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.135672-Neutral-Drow-reviews-A-Drug-That-Makes-You-Dream?page=3>A Drug That Makes You Dream. That said, even though I've had a much higher success rate with that game, I'm paranoid about recommending it to people because it still costs money (similar problem with Kana: Little Sister). I mean, I know people can acquire them in other ways, but I don't really condone that, even though I'd turn a blind eye.

That pretty much leaves me with Tsukihime, Fate/Stay Night, and Kanon as the ones that require torrenting or download. I always worry about recommending <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.163769-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Kanon>Kanon to people (even though I enjoyed the game immensely, far more than even that review might indicate). I've noticed almost as much contempt here for moe as I have for sex, even while I know the game to be deeper than that.

Of the other two, I tend to favor recommending Tsukihime for a few reasons. A) It was my own first visual novel, B) it's somewhat shorter (Fate/Stay Night is as long as most three given VNs put together), C) it has a "non-ero" option (FSN doesn't have one, yet, though there's even less sex...and I honestly believe the scenes are better), and D) Fate/Stay Night has much, much higher production values (it was Type-Moon's first game after they incorporated), meaning going back to the "two guys with a shoestring budget" Tsukihime can be pretty jarring.
Seems like you've really put effort in thinking your recommendations through to make them accessible. I'll be sure to start out with A Drug That Makes You Dream when I can find it shipping to Europe at a humane price (I happen to share your disapproval of pirating titles currently in circulation, especially quality niche ones).

I can understand your hesitation in recommending Kanon. While I don't find the art style objectionable, I'm sure it would subjectively kill the romantic/erotic aspect of the game for a lot of people (myself included), even if sex is a minimal part of it. From the sound of it, I would've thought Fate/Stay Night would be the stronger (in more aspects) of the free games to get people hooked on the genre (at least to those who don't mind unskippable sex scenes), even at the price of hurting Tsukihime later on in comparison. Being so unfamiliar to western audiences, you'll probably only get one shot a lot of times. But I guess in this area of expertise it's pretty much the blind telling the astronomer where to look :)
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Imperator_DK said:
Well, I'm glad you brought to my attention that I'd been a bit hasty in filing the game under "don't ever play". It now seem more like a (legitimate) difference in the view of what the purpose and gameplay of an eroge should be like rather than it being a bad eroge in its own right.
Yeah. The "gameplay" of an eroge is a really hard thing to generalize, since all they are are video games with explicit sex included in some fashion. Most of them I've seen are visual novels like this one, where the gameplay is limited enough to encourage debate over whether it is a game (for various reasons, I personally consider them to be), or dating sims, which share more with single-character RPGs and resource management sims. However, any genre of game can technically be an eroge; Sengoku Rance and Tears to Tiara, for example, are Strategy RPGs.

Similarly, not all visual novels and dating sims are eroge. At least five or so VNs in my playlist (Hourglass of Summer, Clannad, Ever17, Tea Society of a Witch, and Kawata Shoujo) have no sex at all, and there are a lot of "all ages" dating sims which rarely get released outside Japan (including that one with the <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101725-Dating-Sim-Girls-Dump-Pirates>entertaining DRM).

Seems like you've really put effort in thinking your recommendations through to make them accessible. I'll be sure to start out with A Drug That Makes You Dream when I can find it shipping to Europe at a humane price (I happen to share your disapproval of pirating titles currently in circulation, especially quality niche ones).
Actually, you wouldn't even need shipping for that one. It comes in download format, too. That for some bizarre reason is resisting my HTML code, so I have to give it in this format.

http://www.peachprincess.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P014&Category_Code=

I can understand your hesitation in recommending Kanon. While I don't find the art style objectionable, I'm sure it would subjectively kill the romantic/erotic aspect of the game for a lot of people (myself included), even if sex is a minimal part of it.
Pretty much, yeah. Most of the romance is cute in nature, though the sex scenes are avoidable with forewarning (they're also really short, meaning you can fast-forward through them in, like, five seconds).

Makes me sad, too. Other than <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.206764-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Kana-Little-Sister>Kana: Little Sister, it's probably the saddest game I've played so far.

From the sound of it, I would've thought Fate/Stay Night would be the stronger (in more aspects) of the free games to get people hooked on the genre (at least to those who don't mind unskippable sex scenes), even at the price of hurting Tsukihime later on in comparison. Being so unfamiliar to western audiences, you'll probably only get one shot a lot of times. But I guess in this area of expertise it's pretty much the blind telling the astronomer where to look :)
...*sigh* yeah, you're probably right about that. The first part, that is, not the blind astronomer. Even though I ultimately like Tsukihime more (the explanation is in my review, the rambling story in that spoiler tag near the end), I might just be projecting my hopes onto people. Fate/Stay Night really is the objectively better game in almost every way (though I've gotten into arguments with people who disliked that game, too).

I should finally have a review of that game up soon, though, which might make it easier. I'm hoping I can time it for my 10000th post on August 4, a year from my first review.

blakfayt said:
Sounds like the worst ero game ever
It's not. It's the game that singlehandedly made Type-Moon, and it's still one of their two incredibly popular titles (the other, of course, being Fate/Stay Night). It's also technically free, at the moment, until the remake comes out.

Admittedly, if you just want a game to fap to, visual novels usually aren't your best bet, anyway. That's when you pick a game like The Sagara Family or Do You Like Horny Bunnies? that has more than one sex scene every few hours.

Also japanese laws state that all pornographic material is to be censored, don't ask me why, they just do, they also censor the words if you pay attention during sex scenes.
That's the hilarious thing about Little My Maid. Every officially translated game I've seen removes the mosaic and text censoring, including that one...but the words are still bleeped out in the voiceovers!
 

Gigano

Whose Eyes Are Those Eyes?
Oct 15, 2009
2,281
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
Actually, you wouldn't even need shipping for that one [A Drug That Makes You Dream [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.135672-Neutral-Drow-reviews-A-Drug-That-Makes-You-Dream?page=1]]. It comes in download format, too. That for some bizarre reason is resisting my HTML code, so I have to give it in this format.

http://www.peachprincess.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P014&Category_Code=
Well, that takes care of that then.

The usual retailers I use for Region 1 Anime boxsets, which has ways of internally shipping into the EU before final sale and thus for me to avoid taxation, didn't stock this title (or any other PC games). And since there's an approx. 25 $ mail service handling charge on top of the shipping costs and taxation, it would've made for an end price quite uncomfortable to a student even if I'd found a hard copy at 30 $.

But just the 30 bucks off a trustworthy website is another matter entirely. So after rereading your review (which does indeed also mention this download option), I've just put in my order. I'm quite curious as to whether I'll gather even remotely the same intense experience from it as you did, but it sure seem worth a try.

I should finally have a review of that game [Fate/Stay Night] up soon, though, which might make it easier. I'm hoping I can time it for my 10000th post on August 4, a year from my first review.
Be looking forward to it.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Imperator_DK said:
But just the 30 bucks off a trustworthy website is another matter entirely. So after rereading your review (which does indeed also mention this download option), I've just put in my order. I'm quite curious as to whether I'll gather even remotely the same intense experience from it as you did, but it sure seem worth a try.
I'm crossing my fingers hard enough to cut the circulation. I realize going further in that line of thought would be counterproductive, so I'll stop there.

Off-topic, since Comic Con starts tomorrow, I'll probably be picking up a few more titles...I think there's still a few reliable titles left (like Private Nurse and Snow Sakura), though I'll probably winding buying deliberate guilty pleasure material, too.
 

GloatingSwine

New member
Nov 10, 2007
4,544
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
Partly because I always put far, far more stock in the quality of the story than the quality of the sex.
I find this odd when you're dealing with eroge, cause, y'know, sex is supposed to be the USP there. But then I don't like visual novels at the best of times, especially since they tend to have deeply amateur translations, so having to wade through hours of story to get at some juicy porn is just not on the menu. Even School Mate has more plot than I can be bothered with, and you can fastforward through it.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
GloatingSwine said:
NeutralDrow said:
Partly because I always put far, far more stock in the quality of the story than the quality of the sex.
I find this odd when you're dealing with eroge, cause, y'know, sex is supposed to be the USP there.
<url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_108/1315-Heart-wrenching-Hentai>Blame Kana: Little Sister. It's usually attributed as the breakout hit, in that regard.

<url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.206764-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Kana-Little-Sister>I, for one, am just as glad it did. I can find porn anywhere, but I haven't found much that treats its tastefully and with an emotionally-appealing story besides.
 

GloatingSwine

New member
Nov 10, 2007
4,544
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
I can find porn anywhere, but I haven't found much that treats its tastefully and with an emotionally-appealing story besides.
No, but then if you have too much plot, then it's not really porn any more, it's a story which happens to have sex scenes in it, and when you step over that line I don't think that pornographic sex scenes (ie. those written with the specific intent of tittilation of the audence through explicit display of sexual activity.) gel with the rest of the product.

It's telling that you seem to be reccommending VNs where you can turn the porn off as superior, because it shows that in those VNs the porn doesn't fit as part of the product. But by turning them off, you get the emotional buildup without the release of having an appropriately scripted sex scene at an appropriate part of the story.

It's a quandary, and one which essentially requires someone to be already sold on the VN format in order to withstand it. I'm not, I play games to play games, so the closest to a VN that I'm willing to put up with is something like Phoenix Wright, where at least there is a level of puzzle solving to be dealt with.

If I'm going to play an eroge, I'm going to play one that's no nonsense and straight to the hardcore sex. (But even then I think it's better if there's an actual game, even if it's one as simple as in Yuusha Kara wa Nigerarenai).
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
GloatingSwine said:
NeutralDrow said:
I can find porn anywhere, but I haven't found much that treats its tastefully and with an emotionally-appealing story besides.
No, but then if you have too much plot, then it's not really porn any more, it's a story which happens to have sex scenes in it, and when you step over that line I don't think that pornographic sex scenes (ie. those written with the specific intent of tittilation of the audence through explicit display of sexual activity.) gel with the rest of the product.
If it's not porn any more, <url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotWithPorn>why is that a bad thing? Porn just means there's sex in it for absolutely no reason beyond titillation. I found the sex in A Drug That Makes You Dream and Fate/Stay Night perfectly arousing, especially because I was having sex with a girl who's been lonely her whole life and has come to enjoy it, or one who's taking advantage during a mana recharging ritual to seduce me as well, or just one who I've come to seriously care about, etc.

On the other hand, I had to stop playing Do You Like Horny Bunnies? 2 because I didn't give a flying fuck about the characters and got bored (and I regret playing <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.130703-Neutral-Drow-reviews-Xchange>Xchange).

It's telling that you seem to be reccommending VNs where you can turn the porn off as superior, because it shows that in those VNs the porn doesn't fit as part of the product. But by turning them off, you get the emotional buildup without the release of having an appropriately scripted sex scene at an appropriate part of the story.
Actually, I'm favorably recommending VNs where you can turn off the porn because those are the ones I know I can convince people to try. I've heard way too many times "Wow, you make that sound so good! I just wish there wasn't any sex in it. Oh well." Which makes me die a little inside.
 

razer17

New member
Feb 3, 2009
2,518
0
0
The writing in Tsukihim is actually very good. Especially when you consider the fact that this is a fan translated patch, the grammar, lexi and syntax are remarkably good.

The story itself is incredibly interesting. I have only played through one story arc, but I have now got it on my DS, so I intend to start playing through it again. Although I am not sure if you can stop the sex scenes on the DS version. I will have to find that out.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
razer17 said:
The writing in Tsukihim is actually very good. Especially when you consider the fact that this is a fan translated patch, the grammar, lexi and syntax are remarkably good.
You, sir, have given me hope again.

The story itself is incredibly interesting. I have only played through one story arc, but I have now got it on my DS, so I intend to start playing through it again. Although I am not sure if you can stop the sex scenes on the DS version. I will have to find that out.
Are you reading it in Japanese? If you're using the Mirror Moon patch, I wouldn't doubt it, but...