TV Shows/Movies you have a bigger apperciation for now, than you did back then.

[BrawlMan]

The title says it all. A show or film you did not enjoy or watch, but have reception upon a second viewing.

Shaman King (TV Anime) - One of the few shounen anime that holds up well, and has aged surprisingly well outside few circumstances. The dubbing was mostly good, but there some choices that were odd and did not make sense. Overall, the show was good, there was little to no filler, and despite being an adaption, decided to do its own thing, and did not try be exactly like the manga. Granted, the manga was not finished, but the creator of it told the writers of anime to do something different. I was big fan of Shaman King, but it did not hit me until I was about 17, that the show was already better than the manga.

Are You Afraid of the Dark? - A few years ago I watched some episodes that were posted on YouTube, and it's amazing Nickolodeon was able to get away with so much back in the 90s. Yes, most of these stories are watered down ubran legends or campfire stories, but a lot of the implications are still there. Not to mention, not every single episode ended on a good note. There were times the villain(s) won, implied death and child murder still happend to victims, and some endings were bittersweet. Some minor gore was in this show too. Granted, they boiled down to visions or ghosts, but you have got to give them an A for attempting things like that on a kids show. You could not get away with that nowadays.

Any ones you like to share?

 

[ralfy]

Barney Miller and Ivan the Terrible

 

[Trunkage]

Star Trek DS9. I thought it was just going to be another copy of TNG, which I find to be a very average show. I thought it was also a rip on Babylon, which I thought was a great show. Turns out, sort correct in all respects.

It had plenty of TNG ish episodes that have a good premise but fails because there can be no consequences. It rips off B5 by caring about characters and their development. The story revolves around characters, not characters being shoved into stories that dont fit them.

After seeing the first couple of episodes, I dumped it. It took a friend a decade stating that it wasnt TNG and more like B5 before I tried it again.

 

[Gordon_4]

Star Trek DS9. I thought it was just going to be another copy of TNG, which I find to be a very average show. I thought it was also a rip on Babylon, which I thought was a great show. Turns out, sort correct in all respects.

It had plenty of TNG ish episodes that have a good premise but fails because there can be no consequences. It rips off B5 by caring about characters and their development. The story revolves around characters, not characters being shoved into stories that dont fit them.

After seeing the first couple of episodes, I dumped it. It took a friend a decade stating that it wasnt TNG and more like B5 before I tried it again.

See I have the opposite with DS9. I liked it when I first watched it and I still agree it did great character work but it seems weirdly fetishistic about tearing down Roddenberry’s idealistic future - untenable that it may be - and made the Dominion an almost Villain Sue. Babylon 5 did everything DS9 did, did it better and inside its own created IP.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Without having seen a single episode of any Star Trek ever I've gone from thinking it was a cheap, cheesy, technobabble-fueled procedural slog... to still thinking exactly that, although nowadays it looks more sincere and appealing than the edgy, pandering mystery box whiff I'm getting from Star Trek: Picard.

 

[Trunkage]

See I have the opposite with DS9. I liked it when I first watched it and I still agree it did great character work but it seems weirdly fetishistic about tearing down Roddenberry’s idealistic future - untenable that it may be - and made the Dominion an almost Villain Sue. Babylon 5 did everything DS9 did, did it better and inside its own created IP.

I don’t disagree with you. I think B5 is better. I was just commenting how I completely dismissed DS9 because it was another Star Trek. I completely disregarded it because it didn’t reach B5. But it still holds value. And then I hear about Berman interfering with everything Trek and I’m surprised they did so well, particularly when you see his... influence on Voyager and Enterprise.
And I don’t care about ‘tearing down’ previous visions. Garrick and Quark’s insidious discussion was the best thing Star Trek has done, followed closes by Pale Moonlight. I don’t need a copy of something I saw 20 years ago. I care if it’s a good story. Think about what America or Australia or England was like 20 or 40 years ago. They were very different. I except civilisation in fiction to be likewise
And I would agree with the Dominion with the caveat that that's how most villain races are portrayed in Star Trek.

Without having seen a single episode of any Star Trek ever I've gone from thinking it was a cheap, cheesy, technobabble-fueled procedural slog... to still thinking exactly that, although nowadays it looks more sincere and appealing than the edgy, pandering mystery box whiff I'm getting from Star Trek: Picard.

Both are pretty correct assessments. They threw a ‘technobabble’ solution to a problem in the final episode of Picard and everyone hated it... despite that being the solution to 90% of old Star Trek. There are problems with the old version and new. I, for one, haven’t decided which is better. And I don’t really care to pick. But then, I don’t hold the typical romantic, rose tinted view most people have of old Trek.

 

[happyninja42]

The title says it all. A show or film you did not enjoy or watch, but have reception upon a second viewing.

Shaman King (TV Anime) - One of the few shounen anime that holds up well, and has aged surprisingly well outside few circumstances. The dubbing was mostly good, but there some choices that were odd and did not make sense. Overall, the show was good, there was little to no filler, and despite being an adaption, decided to do its own thing, and did not try be exactly like the manga. Granted, the manga was not finished, but the creator of it told the writers of anime to do something different. I was big fan of Shaman King, but it did not hit me until I was about 17, that the show was already better than the manga.

Are You Afraid of the Dark? - A few years ago I watched some episodes that were posted on YouTube, and it's amazing Nickolodeon was able to get away with so much back in the 90s. Yes, most of these stories are watered down ubran legends or campfire stories, but a lot of the implications are still there. Not to mention, not every single episode ended on a good note. There were times the villain(s) won, implied death and child murder still happend to victims, and some endings were bittersweet. Some minor gore was in this show too. Granted, they boiled down to visions or ghosts, but you have got to give them an A for attempting things like that on a kids show. You could not get away with that nowadays.

Any ones you like to share?

Thread stealer!! *thwap*

OT: Well, there is the obvious V for Vendetta, the one I mentioned in MY thread *glare* , so I won't rehash that here.

You also mentioned things you did not enjoy "or watch", so can't really have a different reception on second viewing in that case. But, I found I enjoyed Gods of Egypt when I finally got around to watching it like 2 years after it came out. I get the whole issue with the whitewashing of the cast, not defending that. But, I recall a lot of people mocking the premise of it, and I'm like "have you actually ready mythology? It's all kinds of big, sweeping, high soap opera style stuff, painted in broad strokes." I remember one critic talking about the scene with Osiris on his chariot, and there were like "I'm seeing this ship flying through space, and it's got this big chain pulling the sun and I'm like...what the fuck is this?!?" and I was just like "that's the fucking myth dumbass. Yeah it would look silly if you actually tried to visualize it, but that's what they believed, so..there it is." But, yeah, it felt like Clash of the Titans (the original) to me. Big, pulp fictiony stuff, that was about as accurate you can be to a mythology that is incredibly varied and nebulous depending on the era of record you look at. It was fun, and I really didn't see what the big stink was about.

Eh, I really can't think of many examples of "didn't like it much at first, but liked it more on second viewing" other than V for Vendetta. I mean maybe there are some examples, but I can't recall them offhand. Most of my examples are films that I liked on first viewing, and then liked even more on a second one.

I have several that are the opposite though, where I liked them, but have since soured on them. But that's not the theme of this so I won't post those here.

But, I really enjoyed the Assassin's Creed film, and even more on a second viewing. It's kind of in the Gods of Egypt category for me, as a film everyone seems to shit on, that I just don't see what the problem is. Though AC I think was genuinely really good from first viewing, and just liked it even more on 2nd viewing. Gods of Egypt was always just in the "it was a fun popcorn film, i felt like my time was well spent watching it, but I won't seek it out. but if it's on, i'll keep it on in the background or something."

Hmmm....maybe Mortal Kombat: Annihilation? I didn't think it was very good in theaters, and I still don't think it's great, but there was one line in that film, that sort of realigned the whole Mortal Kombat mythos for me, in a way that I thought was really neat. It's at the end, when Shao Khan realizes he can be hurt, and he looks to his father for answers. Then the other Elder Gods show up and say "In the end, it will be decided as it has always been. In *music cue* MORTAL KOMBAT!" Now I know on one level it was just meant as a way to name drop the event, and an excuse to play the theme song before the fight continued. But then I actually thought about what they said. That, with all the weird mystical shit in the MK-verse, one constant is there, and it's the one thing the Mortal Realm has as a defense. If you come to claim the power of the Mortal Realm, you WILL face it on MORTAL terms. Doesn't matter if you are an immortal god in your realm, but if you come to OUR HOUSE, you play by our rules *****! You CAN die here! And if you slip up, we will fucking KILL you. So bring your A game, because the game is for keeps here. I just really dug that. It basically just framed the term Mortal in the title in a different way to me. It didn't mean Fatal Kombat, but more that all contestants are Mortal here. And I dug that, a lot.

Yeah I'm drawing a blank on any other examples offhand. I'm sure there are some, but I can't think of them.

 

[Gordon_4]

Without having seen a single episode of any Star Trek ever I've gone from thinking it was a cheap, cheesy, technobabble-fueled procedural slog... to still thinking exactly that, although nowadays it looks more sincere and appealing than the edgy, pandering mystery box whiff I'm getting from Star Trek: Picard.

It’s all of those things. Trek is one of those things that when it’s on, it’s really on. But when it face plants? Oh boy is it a spectacular train wreck.

 

[Kae]

I was a giant asshole (I may still be, though certainly not as big of an asshole) when I was a kid, so I couldn't accept I liked anything & basically claimed everything, including things I liked sucked, so I guess everything I like would fit in here.

Among many things I outright criticized & claimed were garbage were:

Avatar: The Last Airbender, I guess I was just too edgy to recognise how well written it is & just dissed it so much because it does have a pretty childish style of humour, but yeah I'm now able to recognise that even though it is a flawed show, there aren't very many shows that have characters as well written as that one, with Zuko easily being one of the best executed redemption arcs I've ever seen, but every single member of the main cast has pretty good character development, not to mention that it was pretty ballsy that it was willing to tackle themes such as sexism, segregation, corruption, etc in a children's cartoon while managing to keep things light-hearted enough, it's seriously impressive what they managed with that show.

Fullmetal Alchemist, back then being into anime wasn't as well received as it is today, besides I was already a video-game & horror movie nerd so I guess I judged it pretty harshly just for being anime, but you know my siblings & my only friend back then were big into anime so I ended up watching it with them & of course I hated it like I hated everything else, but in hindsight it's not only a pretty good story it's also one that's very personally resonant with me, especially back then when I was studying to be a Physicist (Before I left school) a character like Edward really resonated with me & his relationship with Alphonse did help me a lot in relating to my brothers, not to mention that his arrogance & general attitude was pretty similar to mine, in fact I was also short as hell & sensitive about it, maybe I just hated it because Edward reminded me too much of myself, but it is a seriously good story.

I mean I could probably go on forever, because I seriously hated everything that wasn't video-games or horror movies, I don't know if I thought it was cool to hate on things but it's just the way I was, fortunately I've calmed down & maybe it's because I've realised I don't particularly care what people think of me but I'm willing to give everything a shot now.

 

[happyninja42]

Kind of fitting in my opinion, but it's more a category of movies, and that's military ones. I've worked for my state's Veteran's Affairs office for 14 years now, and while I've never been a big fan of military films just for the sake of being a military film, I do find i appreciate when they get some of the details right. I'm not as good as my coworkers who actually served, who can spot certain awards and medals on someone's uniform and go "yeah that's not right." and I couldn't tell you the command structure or if this guy has the correct number of chevrons on his sleeve. But I can spot a DD 214, and can tell you if it's accurate for the decade in question, and I'm familiar with just how bad being given a Dishonorable discharge, or other various discharge rankings might be on the person.

To give a recent example, from the movie Captain Marvel. It's established that she served in the Air Force in the 90's.

Spoiler

So at the end, when Nick Fury is looking over her file, and giving us the name drop of the Avenger's Initiative. And he looks down at her file, and smiles. Well, interesting note, is that there is a DD 214 as the top document in the file we are shown. And the layout of it is accurate to the layout from the 90s. BUT, one thing, and I'm not sure if it's an error, or if it's an example of "Nick Fury, Master Spy Chief Pulling Government Strings" is that she technically shouldn't have a DD 214, as she was reported killed on active duty. There is a totally different document used for deaths while on active duty, and it looks nothing like a DD 214. So at first I was like "oh hey! they got the document right!.....wait...no she wouldn't have that....ok so did they goof up, or did Nick have her issued a DD 214, since she technically didn't die, and thus it would make her file accurate, and allow her to exist legally and bureaucratically on earth? Hmmm" But it was a detail that, if I had seen that movie before this job, I just wouldn't have picked up on.

Also for the movie A Few Good Men. Which while that movie has some toxic masculinity macho bullshit problems that still resonate in our military today, one thing that made me cringe when seeing the end after having this job...

Spoiler

At the end, when the 2 Marines that actually physically applied the Code Red were given Dishonorable discharges, I cringed. Not because of the "loss of honor" or any such bullshit, but because that guy is fucked. Marines....put a LOT of wear and tear on their members, in a very short amount of service time. I've seen guys come in, with just 2-3 years of service, completely fucking broken, physically and mentally. And guys with 20-30 years of service in other branches, who are relatively in good health. It's not always the case of course, plenty of Army, Navy and Air Force can have serious problems, especially with decades of service. But on average, most Marines that come through my office, don't retire with 20+ years (5-10 years at most), and have a laundry list of broken and busted up body parts. And the medical problems of those, and the medical bills associated with them, pile up fast. And VA will pay for NONE of it, if you have a Dishonorable (Bad Conduct in more recent decades) discharge. So I always sort of grit my teeth, when at the end, Cruise's character is all like "you don't need a uniform to have honor" or whatever thing he says, I'm just like "yeah well, that's nice and all, but that guy's probably going to end up with a crippled skeletal system, probably has PTSD and/or Despression, a list of other problems, and since he's a Marine, he's going to be stubborn as fuck about admitting he has any of these problems, and instead will just bury it all down internally until he explodes, years later. So...yeah, good job Tom, you saluted him...whoopty doo. He's still got a shitty life ahead of him, based on what he did in the service."

 

[SupahEwok]

*Broken Marines snip*

Hmm, that fits with my limited experience. I've known 3 former marines, one has ruined knees even though his primary job was working the armory, another has a ruined back even though his primary job was surveying. Seems like hell in there.

 

[happyninja42]

Hmm, that fits with my limited experience. I've known 3 former marines, one has ruined knees even though his primary job was working the armory, another has a ruined back even though his primary job was surveying. Seems like hell in there.

Well to be fair, bad lower back, and bad knees, is pretty much an expected disability for ANY veteran of the US military, regardless of branch of service. Just the amount of marching they do is pretty standard, and across the board. It does taper off as they are promoted, and go into specific job types, and some branches have less of it long term. But yeah, overall, Marines do tend to have a much longer list of injuries, that is way more....I hate to say comprehensive, as that just doesn't sound right, but all inclusive I guess. Head to toe problems, and not minor problems either.

 

[happyninja42]

Pulp Fiction. I always loved the film, and remember being just amazed by it when it was in the theaters, but I remember, years later, rewatching it, and noticing one scene in particular that made me tilt my head and go "...huh..." Now the film is full of little things you can notice on rewatches, but this one, I think was a very interesting bit of subtle writing and acting. I'm not sure if it's the intended subtext, but it sure as hell felt like it to me.

So, it's in the scene, during Butch's story, where he is in the motel room with his girlfriend (I forget her name...Fabian I think?), anyway, they are cuddling and talking, before having sex. He's curling up behind her and just sort of nuzzling her while she's talking, and she says something interesting that I didn't really catch on first viewing.

She talks about how she wanted to have a pot belly, and Butch comments about how he could have a pot belly too, and she comments about how pot belly's on men, make them look oafish and like a gorilla...and she's smiling as she says that, but then her face goes very serious as she changes lines to "...but on a woman, a pot belly is SEXY." Now Butch doesn't see her face, but we do, and she seems kind of nervous. She then spends several lines of dialogue, trying to sell Butch on the idea of a pot belly on a woman would be sexy looking, and talks about how none of the rest of her body would change. Just a pot belly. And I was thinking "...ok well, while it doesn't always happen this way, and sometimes not for the full duration, but when a woman is pregnant, they often just develop a pot belly, and the rest of their dimensions stay the same. Maybe only through the first or second trimester, and not every woman, but it's pretty common. I wonder....I wonder if she's already pregnant, and is trying to test the waters on whether or not Butch would be ok with that. In that weird, around the bush, circular way that women do sometimes.....huh."

Tons of other little things, like how every time Vincent goes to the bathroom for any reason, bad things happen during or immediately after. And lots of others that I can't think of right now.

But yeah, I remember that scene made me take a new look at the film as a whole.

 

[BrawlMan]

I noticed something about Aquaman, and why I love it so much. I noticed that the story had a lot of similarities to Devil May Cry 3. Two brothers, older brother is evil (or at least misguided), (supposed) death of a mother, and fighting over their father's legacy. And some one had posted it on the YMMV Aquaman tropes page. Other people out noticed it too. That just elevates my love for the film even more. Plus, it does have video game type moments, in a good way and means of respect. Even my father noticed the gamey type moments with the action scenes, though it was more of a minor complain from him. My mom and I didn't care and thought the action was all fantastic.