Twilight Author Bored With Vampires
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
That's what tends to bother me when I criticize Twilight.afaceforradio said:
Fans say "You obviously never read them" and I assure them yeah...yeah I have.
On a related note, just finished Stephen King's Under the Dome. The Last 400 pages make the first 600 pages well worth the effort.
I think she needs a bit of re-education.
This is a vampire.
This is not.
And this picture says it all.
This is a vampire.
This is not.
And this picture says it all.
Captain Haddock! Billions of bilious blue barnacles in ten thousand thundering typhoons! I love those comics.Quaxar said:
OT: I have nothing to say about Twilight that hasn't already been said.
"I have, actually. Ones with real vampires. You're right, it's not MY tale. However, if I'm going to spend my time reading/watching it, I am allowed to, and WILL, voice my opinion when I decide that eating a live lobster would be more pleasant than putting myself through this. Especially when she can't write worth a lick."
Well, that's cool -- I'd like to read them sometime if you don't mind. Though I sort of chuckle when you say 'real' vampires. I think you mean "How *I* would define a Vampire," don't you think? It seems that these days, with these romantic tales about Vampires coming out, a lot of people are getting 'defensive' about themes they seemingly want to remain 'immutable.' And keep in mind I never said you couldn't voice your opinion -- I mean, I'm doing the same thing, right? I just... I dunno, I just happen to think it's kind of goofy that for a lot of people, it comes down to 'ZOMG HER VAMPIRES ARENT MANLY MONSTARS THAT RIP PEOPLE APPART WHERE ARE *MY* VAMPIRESS???'
"And you're pointing out something I never even touched on until now, and I find it odd that you're so defensive about it. No one ever said "Womenz cant du neting tey jus gud 4 boobz!!/?!1?!?!" If you want women to be equal to men, you can't put them on a pedestal and pretend they're better. otherwise you end up looking as chauvinistic as the other gender. As such, I grade entertainment based on CHARACTER quality, not cup size, and for the third time, Meyer's characters have no depth. At all. It's just a merry go round of, "Hey, you're cute and we have nothing in common besides being able to tell Anaphase from Prophase. RISK YOUR LIFE FOR ME SO WE CAN BECOME LOVERS!"
Also, I'm not so much 'defensive' though I do have a pretty strong feminist bone in me, even if I'm a dude, but I get into this kind of convo with other dudes a lot, since stories like Twilight have hit. It's just kind of interesting, and funny, because I KNEW it would happen. And really, I didn't imply that you thought that, but that the greater MEDIA seems to have that view about female characters. Even if they say they don't what shows up on the screen is sort of counter to that idea. The thing is, women are equal to men; always have been, they just aren't portrayed that way at all. I never suggested any Chauvinism of any kind. Why do people assume strong female characters means weak male ones, or any kind give and take? Major media often falls back on tried and true stereotypes, and while some might decry them, the masses eat it up. That's just the way it's been. And hey man, about Meyer's characters and the themes of love -- love is weird. For some people it's a drawn out affair, for others, one look and they are smitten. It's weird like that and that's OK. I think, for all of Twilight's faults, how Belle and Edward met / fell in love is the least of them.
"And I was pointing out that it's useless to compare Japan, one of the most culturally opposite countries in comparison (how ironic) to the rest of the world, to the rest of the world. And I warn you about getting into a history of video gaming battle with me. I will outgeek just about anyone besides Shigeru Miyamoto."
OK. Western culture at large (the U. S. variant I was comparing it to, assuming you live there of course )is not the 'rest of the world' -- and Japanese culture, however you define it, I wouldn't in the slightest way say it's 'culturally opposite.' Every theme and thread in their culture is also echoed in our culture. You just have to look for it. The sociologists in me finds this fascinating. Again, people like to hype up the 'weirdness' of pop-culture and sub-culture in Japan, but all popular culture is 'weird.' That's why it's popular, or 'edgy' or whatever adjective-of-the day you want to use. As far as a 'video game geek' battle -- I wasn't trying to have one, but I'm sure you'd agree with my previous statement about the importance of the Japanese at large within the framework of videogaming.
"As for girls of gaming, OF COURSE THEY APPEAL TO MEN. They're artificially created polygrams, and thus eye candy for the target audience. Just like the men are all just as perfect. You won't find a female gamer that hasn't oogled Jann Lee's pecks between matches, I'm sure. Trying to say that "Women in video games are just sex objects" completely forgets the fact that main characters in 99% of ALL stories are attractive. Think about that word: Attractive. As in attracting enough to buy the movie/game/picture/etc. And again, this is on BOTH sides.
Want more? Alyx of Half Life 2, Jade of Beyond Good and Evil, Kate Archer of No One Lives Forever, and of course Chun Li of Street Fighter are all good ones. Lara Croft, despite her obviously disproportional figure, has both beauty and brains, and is one of the key females of gaming. You want strong female roles? Look towards any of them, or the female cast of the Soul Blade/Calibur series."
Appeal is not the same as 'titillate.' And while sexuality is fine in all sorts of doses, I don't think you and I mean the same thing when we say that. Eye-candy is also subjective -- and being attractive and 'perfect' does not necessarily lend itself to the kind of shallowness I'm griping about here. It may be a sign, but that's about it. Attractiveness has nothing to do with my point about how women are often portrayed in videogames, mostly programmed by men. I just think a lot of it is very stereotypical and condescending. It seems that people are trying to 'correct' this by making the 'badass chick' but I mean, when you look at the characters closely, that's just another male fantasy. Now, don't get me wrong, fantasies are fine, I'm certainly not a prude. But I mean, there are just SO many examples. Even out of the characters you mentioned I think probably the better examples are Alyx and Kate Archer. Jo Dark, probably so... The 'sexy' spy is often a female stereotype, but I won't begrudge you that. Not so sure about Ms. Croft and Chun Li -- most fighting game characters (male or female) have very little depth to speak of, sadly, so I think it's hard to use those examples, (ESPECIALLY fighting game females, I mean really, Soul Calibur?) but she certainly is good looking, though! However, a character is more than just looks. I mean, there are a million and one pretty women (and men) in media, but only a handful stand out. Why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_of_the_sacred_spirit
^^^
Hey, have you seen this? If not, you should. That story features a prime example of what I mean by a 'strong' female character. (Her name is Balsa) Not just strong in might, or in brains, but just a well rounded character. And, coming out of a culture (Japanese) more underlying misogynic than our own, that's a big deal. That's just one example I can think of I think Hayao Miyazaki also crafts strong (yet cute) female characters --a Japanese man who also calls himself a Feminist. But it's good a lot more women are making manga, anime and other stories these days. Not just Japanese women, but women in general. Now, as you can see, I'm pretty strongly 'pro-female.' But I'm not about to raise women's works to a grand level simply because they are women's works. That'd be silly. However, I do see a trend to strongly rebuke a lot of stories written by women for being too 'womanly' and thus rejected by men. Perhaps not you, but I know for many guys all it takes is the sight of a handsome or 'pretty' male embracing a female on the cover of title for lips to be smacked in disgust. But of course, all the tropes and stereotypes and such that we guys know and love get full play. We might joke a bit about them, but we still eat them up. Just hoping one day, that'll change. Well, if we're talking like this, it probably already is. :]
We don't have to debate about this any more, I just wanted to get that out there, man. Peace. :]
P. S. I never said Twilight was a raving Feminist work of epic proportions. That was not my argument. Twilight was a segue into women's works (and the trend in stories marketed toward women, especially young women, taking a cue from the East and male reactions!)
But, sorry for derailing your rant against Twilight. I'll put away my Edward Cullen posters now!
Also, I still LOL over the stupid fanboys who cry so much over something NOT WRITTEN FOR THEM, when metric tonnes of vapid stories aimed at 'dudes' get pushed out the pooper. Gotta love the mysogyny here. Protip: Twilight is popular for a REASON. No one complains about shyte written for you, so why complain about Twilight?
Well, that's cool -- I'd like to read them sometime if you don't mind. Though I sort of chuckle when you say 'real' vampires. I think you mean "How *I* would define a Vampire," don't you think? It seems that these days, with these romantic tales about Vampires coming out, a lot of people are getting 'defensive' about themes they seemingly want to remain 'immutable.' And keep in mind I never said you couldn't voice your opinion -- I mean, I'm doing the same thing, right? I just... I dunno, I just happen to think it's kind of goofy that for a lot of people, it comes down to 'ZOMG HER VAMPIRES ARENT MANLY MONSTARS THAT RIP PEOPLE APPART WHERE ARE *MY* VAMPIRESS???'
"And you're pointing out something I never even touched on until now, and I find it odd that you're so defensive about it. No one ever said "Womenz cant du neting tey jus gud 4 boobz!!/?!1?!?!" If you want women to be equal to men, you can't put them on a pedestal and pretend they're better. otherwise you end up looking as chauvinistic as the other gender. As such, I grade entertainment based on CHARACTER quality, not cup size, and for the third time, Meyer's characters have no depth. At all. It's just a merry go round of, "Hey, you're cute and we have nothing in common besides being able to tell Anaphase from Prophase. RISK YOUR LIFE FOR ME SO WE CAN BECOME LOVERS!"
Also, I'm not so much 'defensive' though I do have a pretty strong feminist bone in me, even if I'm a dude, but I get into this kind of convo with other dudes a lot, since stories like Twilight have hit. It's just kind of interesting, and funny, because I KNEW it would happen. And really, I didn't imply that you thought that, but that the greater MEDIA seems to have that view about female characters. Even if they say they don't what shows up on the screen is sort of counter to that idea. The thing is, women are equal to men; always have been, they just aren't portrayed that way at all. I never suggested any Chauvinism of any kind. Why do people assume strong female characters means weak male ones, or any kind give and take? Major media often falls back on tried and true stereotypes, and while some might decry them, the masses eat it up. That's just the way it's been. And hey man, about Meyer's characters and the themes of love -- love is weird. For some people it's a drawn out affair, for others, one look and they are smitten. It's weird like that and that's OK. I think, for all of Twilight's faults, how Belle and Edward met / fell in love is the least of them.
"And I was pointing out that it's useless to compare Japan, one of the most culturally opposite countries in comparison (how ironic) to the rest of the world, to the rest of the world. And I warn you about getting into a history of video gaming battle with me. I will outgeek just about anyone besides Shigeru Miyamoto."
OK. Western culture at large (the U. S. variant I was comparing it to, assuming you live there of course )is not the 'rest of the world' -- and Japanese culture, however you define it, I wouldn't in the slightest way say it's 'culturally opposite.' Every theme and thread in their culture is also echoed in our culture. You just have to look for it. The sociologists in me finds this fascinating. Again, people like to hype up the 'weirdness' of pop-culture and sub-culture in Japan, but all popular culture is 'weird.' That's why it's popular, or 'edgy' or whatever adjective-of-the day you want to use. As far as a 'video game geek' battle -- I wasn't trying to have one, but I'm sure you'd agree with my previous statement about the importance of the Japanese at large within the framework of videogaming.
"As for girls of gaming, OF COURSE THEY APPEAL TO MEN. They're artificially created polygrams, and thus eye candy for the target audience. Just like the men are all just as perfect. You won't find a female gamer that hasn't oogled Jann Lee's pecks between matches, I'm sure. Trying to say that "Women in video games are just sex objects" completely forgets the fact that main characters in 99% of ALL stories are attractive. Think about that word: Attractive. As in attracting enough to buy the movie/game/picture/etc. And again, this is on BOTH sides.
Want more? Alyx of Half Life 2, Jade of Beyond Good and Evil, Kate Archer of No One Lives Forever, and of course Chun Li of Street Fighter are all good ones. Lara Croft, despite her obviously disproportional figure, has both beauty and brains, and is one of the key females of gaming. You want strong female roles? Look towards any of them, or the female cast of the Soul Blade/Calibur series."
Appeal is not the same as 'titillate.' And while sexuality is fine in all sorts of doses, I don't think you and I mean the same thing when we say that. Eye-candy is also subjective -- and being attractive and 'perfect' does not necessarily lend itself to the kind of shallowness I'm griping about here. It may be a sign, but that's about it. Attractiveness has nothing to do with my point about how women are often portrayed in videogames, mostly programmed by men. I just think a lot of it is very stereotypical and condescending. It seems that people are trying to 'correct' this by making the 'badass chick' but I mean, when you look at the characters closely, that's just another male fantasy. Now, don't get me wrong, fantasies are fine, I'm certainly not a prude. But I mean, there are just SO many examples. Even out of the characters you mentioned I think probably the better examples are Alyx and Kate Archer. Jo Dark, probably so... The 'sexy' spy is often a female stereotype, but I won't begrudge you that. Not so sure about Ms. Croft and Chun Li -- most fighting game characters (male or female) have very little depth to speak of, sadly, so I think it's hard to use those examples, (ESPECIALLY fighting game females, I mean really, Soul Calibur?) but she certainly is good looking, though! However, a character is more than just looks. I mean, there are a million and one pretty women (and men) in media, but only a handful stand out. Why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_of_the_sacred_spirit
^^^
Hey, have you seen this? If not, you should. That story features a prime example of what I mean by a 'strong' female character. (Her name is Balsa) Not just strong in might, or in brains, but just a well rounded character. And, coming out of a culture (Japanese) more underlying misogynic than our own, that's a big deal. That's just one example I can think of I think Hayao Miyazaki also crafts strong (yet cute) female characters --a Japanese man who also calls himself a Feminist. But it's good a lot more women are making manga, anime and other stories these days. Not just Japanese women, but women in general. Now, as you can see, I'm pretty strongly 'pro-female.' But I'm not about to raise women's works to a grand level simply because they are women's works. That'd be silly. However, I do see a trend to strongly rebuke a lot of stories written by women for being too 'womanly' and thus rejected by men. Perhaps not you, but I know for many guys all it takes is the sight of a handsome or 'pretty' male embracing a female on the cover of title for lips to be smacked in disgust. But of course, all the tropes and stereotypes and such that we guys know and love get full play. We might joke a bit about them, but we still eat them up. Just hoping one day, that'll change. Well, if we're talking like this, it probably already is. :]
We don't have to debate about this any more, I just wanted to get that out there, man. Peace. :]
P. S. I never said Twilight was a raving Feminist work of epic proportions. That was not my argument. Twilight was a segue into women's works (and the trend in stories marketed toward women, especially young women, taking a cue from the East and male reactions!)
But, sorry for derailing your rant against Twilight. I'll put away my Edward Cullen posters now!
Also, I still LOL over the stupid fanboys who cry so much over something NOT WRITTEN FOR THEM, when metric tonnes of vapid stories aimed at 'dudes' get pushed out the pooper. Gotta love the mysogyny here. Protip: Twilight is popular for a REASON. No one complains about shyte written for you, so why complain about Twilight?
I say she should just troll the entire fandom. No, not hers. Everyones.
Make a book with elves, dwarves, ninjas, pirates, ghosts, aliens, starship battles, sword fights, dragons, zombies, giant robots, witches, wizards, robots, space marines, cat girls, car racing, Baysplosions, Bollywood dance numbers, parkour, and Lu Bu. Slap her name on the front, get Uwe Boll to write the forward to the book, and include a CD of 'experimental music' to act as the soundtrack.
She'd either destroy the world from pure suck, or manage to redeem herself and her line unto nine generations hence. Either way, it'd be damn fun to watch.
Make a book with elves, dwarves, ninjas, pirates, ghosts, aliens, starship battles, sword fights, dragons, zombies, giant robots, witches, wizards, robots, space marines, cat girls, car racing, Baysplosions, Bollywood dance numbers, parkour, and Lu Bu. Slap her name on the front, get Uwe Boll to write the forward to the book, and include a CD of 'experimental music' to act as the soundtrack.
She'd either destroy the world from pure suck, or manage to redeem herself and her line unto nine generations hence. Either way, it'd be damn fun to watch.
No, coincidence, a common mistake.CoverYourHead said:Holy crap, I actually hadn't seen that when I posted this.The_root_of_all_evil said:CoverYourHead said:
Ironic.
OT: First I was like, "Lol!" Then I was like, "Aww shit, she's going to ruin another supernatural creature."
"She doesn't want to be typecast as that author that created a massively popular series about bloodsuckers that can passionately kiss."
Yeah, and Barack Obama doesn't want to be typecast as "That president guy".
Yeah, and Barack Obama doesn't want to be typecast as "That president guy".
rekabdarb said:
ok, that's pretty icky tbh (not that 100-year-olds hitting on 16-year-olds isn't icky, but it's at least fictional).