Twilight of the She-Geeks
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Actually, men are objectified just as much as women are. In different ways though. And how many girls out there watched a movie just to see a guy?historybuff said:
Seriously, I wouldn't care if it paraded the men around in their swim trunks and all they ever did was engage in erotic foreplay with each other.
Setphanie Meyer is at best a writer of awful self-insert vampire fanfiction, and at worst the incarnation of the devil. I reserve for her the same condemnation I would for any terrible writer. I think many of the 60/70/80s sci fi movies are ridiculous pieces of crap, and not even the frolicking of semi-naked alien chicks can make it better.
Same but inverted gender for Twilight. It's trash, nothing more.
Setphanie Meyer is at best a writer of awful self-insert vampire fanfiction, and at worst the incarnation of the devil. I reserve for her the same condemnation I would for any terrible writer. I think many of the 60/70/80s sci fi movies are ridiculous pieces of crap, and not even the frolicking of semi-naked alien chicks can make it better.
Same but inverted gender for Twilight. It's trash, nothing more.
Yes, but it isn't really socially recognized. The social construct is that, in general, women don't (because we are pegged as being 'emotional and not thinking as sexually as men do') and so, yes, Orlando Bloom will be in a movie and all the teenage girls will go see the movie because of it but it isn't recognized in the same way that companies will dress their females in movies and video games as scantily as possible to appeal to their male audience.CrysisMcGee said:
I'm not saying that men aren't objectified at all--I'm just saying it isn't recognized in the same way as when women are objectified.
But Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw, Elizabeth Bennet and even Juliet Capulet had more...I hate to say it - ovaries...than Bella.Doug said:
(What is the female descriptor for guts?)
"It was dawning on me, then, that myself and every other male geek currently rolling our eyes at the laughably-obvious, pandering sexual-objectification of these "Playgirl werewolves" had at many times throughout our geek-existence been confronted (or, at least, needled) by our she-geek female compatriots about the laughably-obvious, pandering sexual-objectification of...well, damn near every depiction of the female form in geek culture."
By gods you are right! This bring to to mind this girl I like that is in love with traditional Sci-Fi and Twilight. I now understand how repressive geek culture has been to her kind.
I've always got along fine that many girls don't like our kind of Sci-Fi. Now to think we're making fun of their Sci-Fi.....
I think I am going to read those Twilight books.
By gods you are right! This bring to to mind this girl I like that is in love with traditional Sci-Fi and Twilight. I now understand how repressive geek culture has been to her kind.
I've always got along fine that many girls don't like our kind of Sci-Fi. Now to think we're making fun of their Sci-Fi.....
I think I am going to read those Twilight books.
Yes, but bare in mind the attitude of the typical tween - most old stuff == yawn, new stuff == OMG, ITS SO AAAAAAAWESUM!!!1!!!!11The_root_of_all_evil said:
Hell knows, I had a watered down version of that myself. Its just what we go through as people on the route of growing up.
Geez. George Lucas writes one part of the movie where Princess Leia waits 15mins before killing dudes, and it comes back to haunt us. Can we all at least remember that Leia used the chain to strangle the fat man-slug. That has to symbolize something, right?
This. Twilight fangirls are acting pretty much the same way I was four years ago...AkJay said:
And when you think about it, it's not that bad of a thing. Bad girl geekdom is better than no girl geekdom. Before Twilight no-one was even trying. True, there won't be much room for tries within the next few years, but at least now people know there is a market for these sorts of things. And let's face it, we need more geek-girls.
MovieBob:
Irregardless of what you might think of me (if you've even read any of my stuff) I have a great deal of respect for you, but I think your a little off here on some of this.
Men and women aren't THAT differant when you get down to it. A lot of the Twilight images you've seen look like gay porn because on a lot of levels that is what they are. Women get off on that kind of thing the same way dudes get off on lesbians. It's a heavy subtext in a lot of the Paranormal romance stuff directed at women.
To put things into perspective there are plenty of images of erotic images of men directed at women. If you take a walk over a few aisles from the Sci-Fi/Fantasy/comics/RPing stuff in your local Waldenbooks you'll find the "chicks section" where they keep all the romance novels. Harlequins, etc... all of which feature pictures of attractive men in various erotic (though not overtly pornographic) poses with women, none of whom seem especially gay. Fabio (who is not aging gracefully apparently) became famous for posing for this kind of artwork, and allegedly Antonio Banderas did also before his film career. You'll also find artists like Julie Bell who draw all these perfectly formed guys without making them jump off the page as "wow, that's flaming".
Now, I'm not a photographer, but there is an artwork to that kind of thing that can make a picture say things without saying them. Use of light, color, lenses, whatever, but a good artist or photographer can convey a certain flavor of sexuality without being blatent about it. However it was done, those Twilight promotions ARE flaming. I get the same kind of impression from a lot of them, and honestly it's not some kind of discomfort due to the objectification of men or whatever because again I an look at artwork by guys like Frank Frazetta or Boris Valejo without getting the same impression. Ditto for other guys like say Van Damme showing off their awesome builds in photos for movies (well when they did movies like that which were good enough to actually see posters produced).
I tend to see it as the same thing when you take a couple of actresses and have them crawl over each other in a suggestive fashion or strike a suggestive pose which has nothing to do with the characters they play. The characters aren't lesbians but you as a guy are supposed to get that vibe. This is the same thing, and it's just shot that way, but in the opposite direction. You couldn't take a Frazetta picture of Conan or a Fabio shot and have it "pass" for the cover of a gay porn movie, but you COULD do that with some of the Twilight pics.
Just my thoughts, apologies about the length. I won't go off about fantasy art in general since this is long already. I just wanted to pretty much say that I don't think you or your friends are alone in getting that vibe, but at the same time I don't think anything is being projected onto that. Men have been as objectified as women if you know where to look and those promotions are stylized in a very specific way.
Irregardless of what you might think of me (if you've even read any of my stuff) I have a great deal of respect for you, but I think your a little off here on some of this.
Men and women aren't THAT differant when you get down to it. A lot of the Twilight images you've seen look like gay porn because on a lot of levels that is what they are. Women get off on that kind of thing the same way dudes get off on lesbians. It's a heavy subtext in a lot of the Paranormal romance stuff directed at women.
To put things into perspective there are plenty of images of erotic images of men directed at women. If you take a walk over a few aisles from the Sci-Fi/Fantasy/comics/RPing stuff in your local Waldenbooks you'll find the "chicks section" where they keep all the romance novels. Harlequins, etc... all of which feature pictures of attractive men in various erotic (though not overtly pornographic) poses with women, none of whom seem especially gay. Fabio (who is not aging gracefully apparently) became famous for posing for this kind of artwork, and allegedly Antonio Banderas did also before his film career. You'll also find artists like Julie Bell who draw all these perfectly formed guys without making them jump off the page as "wow, that's flaming".
Now, I'm not a photographer, but there is an artwork to that kind of thing that can make a picture say things without saying them. Use of light, color, lenses, whatever, but a good artist or photographer can convey a certain flavor of sexuality without being blatent about it. However it was done, those Twilight promotions ARE flaming. I get the same kind of impression from a lot of them, and honestly it's not some kind of discomfort due to the objectification of men or whatever because again I an look at artwork by guys like Frank Frazetta or Boris Valejo without getting the same impression. Ditto for other guys like say Van Damme showing off their awesome builds in photos for movies (well when they did movies like that which were good enough to actually see posters produced).
I tend to see it as the same thing when you take a couple of actresses and have them crawl over each other in a suggestive fashion or strike a suggestive pose which has nothing to do with the characters they play. The characters aren't lesbians but you as a guy are supposed to get that vibe. This is the same thing, and it's just shot that way, but in the opposite direction. You couldn't take a Frazetta picture of Conan or a Fabio shot and have it "pass" for the cover of a gay porn movie, but you COULD do that with some of the Twilight pics.
Just my thoughts, apologies about the length. I won't go off about fantasy art in general since this is long already. I just wanted to pretty much say that I don't think you or your friends are alone in getting that vibe, but at the same time I don't think anything is being projected onto that. Men have been as objectified as women if you know where to look and those promotions are stylized in a very specific way.
Blade sneaked up behind the Vampire, feet carefully positioned each step of the way to avoid twigs. A false step made a light crackle in the pre-dawn air and Blade froze, hand on his sword. Fortunately, the whiny kid and the wet girl where too busy angst chatter with "Love waits" overtones.axia777 said:Do not even compare the two, EVAR. That is a sin against everything geek.AkJay said:
Please do and post it after you are done.Doug said:Suddenly, I have the urge to write a cross over 'fan'-fiction.axia777 said:Good read. But....
He moved slowly, creeping closer and closer. About 1 metre away from the 'happy' couple, the dawn broke and the kid sparkled. "What the FUCK", thought Blade, "He should be in FLAMES, damnit."
Out loud, he said, "Fuck it" and cut the sparkly whiners head off.
Then the puddle girl attacked! With wave upon wave of passive aggressive whining, Blade felt his mind turning to goo. "FUCK" he shouted and fell to the ground, trying deseperately to lift the blade, "Die damnit, dieeeee!"
Just then, a giant train of a wolf came through the forest and turned into a topless bronze boy with 60 abs, "Oh, how terrible, looks like he's dead. Let me comfort you, my puddly girl"
This was deseperate. Blade could feel himself sinking into a tween 'romance' 'novel'. With his last ounces of strength, he pulled out a grenade, and popped the pin....
.... It makes perfect sense..... How did we not see this before... I feel amazed... Holy Merde..... I have to tell somone about this.... O_O
This entire theory for the existence of Twilight seems pretty plausible.
It's a story almost as old as mankind - supernatural, powerful being falls in love with puny mortal.
I just hasn't been done with vampires before, which is a shame, and it has never been done this over-the-top and sparkly (literally), which is NOT a shame.
It's a story almost as old as mankind - supernatural, powerful being falls in love with puny mortal.
I just hasn't been done with vampires before, which is a shame, and it has never been done this over-the-top and sparkly (literally), which is NOT a shame.
ThisMelasZepheos said:
I just hate the crappy writing. I'm a hobbyist novelist myself, and, not to be vain or anything, but I'm the best damn fiction writer in my school. I'd say "my local area", but I live near Alan Moore....so yeah...
But I digress. It's shoddy, fanfic, hackwriting with the intellegence and reasoning of a porno flick from the seventies, combined with fetishistic Emo dependecy on relationships for no reason other than petty lonliness.
And the films have the same acting quality of a porno film, too
I've been told off for implying that Georgette Heyer is shallow fluff. It's actually well written, well documented historical romance. (which I don't get allegedly)The_root_of_all_evil said:
Ah well.
I know, I've noticed this too. Girls who used to like Harry Potter now say it's lame.Casual Shinji said:
Although, I still think Harry Potter is pretty good, not for the cheesy romances, but because he has a wand that shoots sparks at people he doesn't like, while, sayforexample the vampires in Twilight are simply pro athletes with the ability to need to eat people. Wizards>Vampires.
That might be just me. I don't watch movies and read books primarily for character interaction, but for how interesting I think the concept is.
I think this article makes humans sound incredibly crude, and desirous of only the basest forms of entertainment. It makes me loose a little more faith in humanity.
*Runs away in denial*