Twitter allows state controlled People's Daily China news agency to spread unproven claims about Coronavirus originating outside of China

Mister Mumbler

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Simple the employee / fact checkers name has to be put by the dispute indication. If they want to dispute something they should be willing to stand by it.
Ah yes, put someone into a contentious position, and then make it possible to be immediately doxxed by all the angry internet heels they will inevitably attract. What could possibly go wrong?
 

Trunkage

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Ah yes, put someone into a contentious position, and then make it possible to be immediately doxxed by all the angry internet heels they will inevitably attract. What could possibly go wrong?
I was gonna say they would get Canceled. Same diff.

Which is worse if the company forces them to put the fact check symbol on. Or does it and blames the employee.

This all sounds like Twitter getting out of being criticized. And I'm not keen for that
 

Houseman

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You argue that a media organisation has a moral duty to neutrally inform the public about reality, but are trying to run away from thinking about whether the USA's highest ranking public servant does. It's not that you don't have the right to believe what you want, but if what you argue is underpinned by nothing more than sheer whim, it has low to zero persuasiveness.
Yes, these are examples of tu quoque that you use to avoid arguing the former points, in both cases. If I were to argue that "carrots are vegetables", you'd say "but you argued that tomatoes were vegetables before, and you were wrong then!!!1! That makes you wrong now!" which is obviously a false statement.

You're judging the argument by the person giving it, not on the merits of the argument itself. If someone else had copy-pasted my words and presented the same argument, you would have no issue engaging with it... Or maybe you would? Maybe you're just trying to distract because you know you can't engage with the argument, because you don't have any good points against it, so you have to attack the person instead? Is that it?

Either engage with the argument, or don't. If you don't, I'll simply call you out for trying to distract.

Houseman, when you say 'strawman', what do you mean?
An argument that is not mine, but is assigned to me regardless.

Alright. And who benefits, here? The con-man, or the conned? And why is it preferable?
Both parties. They get to see the show they wanted to see and the performer gets to perform what they wanted to perform.
Free speech allows for con-men. It allows for lies. This is one of those acknowledged and accepted dangers.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Oh, so they are reporting things. And got it wrong. Like the NASCAR noose thing?
Which could have been debunked easily.
There's getting things wrong then there's just gross incompetence where they didn't bother to check much at all and can't be held to account for being awful otherwise they cry about how their free speech is being

Ah yes, put someone into a contentious position, and then make it possible to be immediately doxxed by all the angry internet heels they will inevitably attract. What could possibly go wrong?
What happened to "It's free speech" NOT "freedom from consequences"?

No sticking a name to it means they have to be damn sure of what they're saying and people can know the fact check is coming from a professional or expert in said fields or person knowledgeable about said stuff not some random friend of a twitter employee who took a highschool course in the subject 7 years ago .

Ideally Twitter would link to a tweet from said individual showing said evidence too in the dispute.

Problem with using the present verification methods is they're also the kind of places that were pushing Solar Roadways or the free water from air machines or the Fontus self filling water bottle.


Here's the problem with some media companies

 
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Thaluikhain

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The thread has moved 2 pages beyond this, but only in the useless way that happens when people try talking to Houseman, so:

3. China is now the superpower and can throw its weight around. The US isn't at the same level anymore
The US is the world's largest economy and has the world's largest military (both by some margin) and still retains a lot of soft power. You could argue that China has eclipsed them in the third of those (can't say, that's hard to judge), but it's not close to doing so with the first 2.
 

Elijin

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Simple the employee / fact checkers name has to be put by the dispute indication. If they want to dispute something they should be willing to stand by it.
And yet you use a handle on these forums.

Aren't you always playing the "one rule for them, one for us" card as a gotcha?

I can now safely assume nothing you argue, you're actually prepared to stand by.
 

Specter Von Baren

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What are you talking about? Seriously, your gotchas are so fundamentally broken it's like you're translating what I say into 6 different languages and back to English. You seem to have no understanding of what I say, and what you say in reply has no relation to it.
Trunkage has come to the conclusion that I'm a Republican shill reading from scripts or some shit and thinks a country that is so petty that it banned images of fucking Winnie the Pooh because of jokes made about its leader is incredibly trustworthy. I think he's reached the point where he's like a conspiracy nut that thinks he's 2 steps ahead of everyone despite everything being based on wild assumptions.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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And yet you use a handle on these forums.
Because this way it's about the quality of my argument not about anything else. I still have an identity as such here something people can tie to me. Members of the staff here post as themselves not merely "The Escapist" as such

If you want a second reason because a long time ago in real life I had a very pissed of person threatening to pour petrol through my letterbox and light it and he knew my address at the time so I do somewhat try to make it a bit harder to link back to who I am because I'd rather not have to deal with said individual potentially deciding I wronged them again somehow and coming to try for a round 2.


Aren't you always playing the "one rule for them, one for us" card as a gotcha?
I'm not here in a professional capacity though.

I can now safely assume nothing you argue, you're actually prepared to stand by.
I'll stand by it if needed but I'm not sure my knowledge of Archery or Puffer Fish venom derivatives will be every called on much here nor will I be called on to prove I have some knowledge of them lol.
 

Trunkage

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Which could have been debunked easily.
There's getting things wrong then there's just gross incompetence where they didn't bother to check much at all and can't be held to account for being awful otherwise they cry about how their free speech is being
So, I assume George Floyd is one of those false reporting by journalists? Because it was falsely reported as an overdose but turned out to be criminal. The newspapers didn't find out for days
 

Houseman

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Well, that's not it. You implied that Trump can manipulated votes. I flat out stated his name. You then called strawman
This is what you said:

" I think you're missing Houseman's point. Trump should never be allowed to be critical of anyone or anything based on Houseman's version of Free Speech. Because he called a whole bunch of things FAKE NEWS. Trump told them they shouldn't believe the media. "

What does this have to do with "Trump can manipulated votes", especially in a topic about "fact checkers" and free speech?
Please break down your logic in a numbered list.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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So, I assume George Floyd is one of those false reporting by journalists? Because it was falsely reported as an overdose but turned out to be criminal. The newspapers didn't find out for days
That's one of those where it was an absolute breaking story and not super clear cut or done such that it would be found to be clear cut with a small amount of digging. It took a literal court to decide that one.
 

Trunkage

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This is what you said:

" I think you're missing Houseman's point. Trump should never be allowed to be critical of anyone or anything based on Houseman's version of Free Speech. Because he called a whole bunch of things FAKE NEWS. Trump told them they shouldn't believe the media. "

What does this have to do with "Trump can manipulated votes", especially in a topic about "fact checkers" and free speech?
Please break down your logic in a numbered list.
Let have a look at the tape
I haven't personally verified this because I don't have Twitter, but "disputed" tweets are unable to be shared or retweeted. That should count as censorship.

But this is quibbling over words. Call it censorship, suppression, dissuasion, or whatever else you want. Twitter is trying to say "you should not believe this". At best, this is manipulation.

Like I said, imagine if China were in charge of this. Anything critical of China would be tagged as "you should not believe this"
Imagine if Nvidia was in charge of this, and tagged AMD's speed-tests with "you should not believe this".

Imagine if a candidate running for President had his or her tweets tagged with "you should not believe this". Think of how many people use Twitter and how that might influence how they vote? Oh wait, we don't have to imagine it, it's happening.

You have nothing to say on this subject, do you? You have nothing to say about the real potential for causing harm, swinging elections, and manipulating the populace. That's what I'm against, and why I'm against it. There's a potential for REAL HARM when you allow powerful interests to manipulate your thinking. Even if it's just a "this is disputed!"
Here you say you're against Twitter using this is dispute. It causes REAL HARM

It's in the same section as you complaining about Trump doing the same thing. Are you for or against Trump doing this? Because, since it in the same section, I assume you intended to do the same to Trump as Twitter. Because, if you aren't, please explain why you treat Twitter different from Trump when they both distress you so
 
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Trunkage

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That's one of those where it was an absolute breaking story and not super clear cut or done such that it would be found to be clear cut with a small amount of digging. It took a literal court to decide that one.
Oh, wait. Like all those other 50 + stories you were so worried about? Eg. the NASCAR thing wasn't clear for a day what was going on. Most of the media I saw was just reporting what NASCAR said. The picture of the noose didn't start appearing for at least 12 hours. I would have said 24. And, other than a NASCAR pit crew, who they hell knows why the noose there. And the pit crew reported it. THEY thought it should be reported up the chain.

They got George Floyd wrong. They got NASCAR wrong. Both based on incorrect information from the respective authorities. What are you going to do about it?
 

Dreiko

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So this is not censored but the new york post is? This is less twitter being neutral despite the fact that it's an american company and more being pro-chinese government at this point (which also makes it anti chinese population on top of making them anti american, because the chinese government is oppressing its population in a myriad ways)
 
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Houseman

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Here you say you're against Twitter using this is dispute. It causes REAL HARM
Is English your first language? I ask because I've noted you make a lot of errors, almost as if there's some truth to my half-serious hypothesis that you're using a translator.

But no, I didn't say what you're accusing me of saying (maybe because of the translator?)
I said that I'm against the concept, in general, because of the potential to cause real harm.

It's in the same section as you complaining about Trump doing the same thing.
What do you mean by "the same section"?
Where did I complain about "Trump doing the same thing"?

Seriously your posts are always so hard to understand. Do people you interact with IRL often have a hard time understanding you, or is it just me? Maybe it's a cultural thing? Do other Americans you interact with have a hard time understanding you, too?
 

warmachine

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Never mind the actual case records. Covid from imported frozen food? That alone contradicts what's known about the virus. Infection from fomites has to be via contact with a mucous membrane and food hygiene standards exist precisely to prevent that. The picture in the Tweet shows the cook wearing gloves, for chrissakes! I say Twitter should label it as, "Utter horseshit!"

There is a difference between neutrality and ignoring the objectively incorrect. Twitter may as well label flat Earth conspiracies as disputed.
 
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Agema

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Never mind the actual case records. Covid from imported frozen food? That alone contradicts what's known about the virus. Infection from fomites has to be via contact with a mucous membrane and food hygiene standards exist precisely to prevent that. The picture in the Tweet shows the cook wearing gloves, for chrissakes! I say Twitter should label it as, "Utter horseshit!"

There is a difference between neutrality and ignoring the objectively incorrect. Twitter may as well label flat Earth conspiracies as disputed.
This gambit of China's is contemptibly weak. It's just preaching to the people who already are pro-China to give them a delusion to hang onto in case their faith wavers, and some marginal conspiracy theorists. It's not going to change the fact that, worldwide, China is taking one hell of a PR hit for covid-19.

On the other hand, reading some of the stuff they're trying did make me consider that I might switch to calling covid-19 "China virus" to anyone who tries that line on me, just as a rhetorical "screw you".
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Oh, wait. Like all those other 50 + stories you were so worried about? Eg. the NASCAR thing wasn't clear for a day what was going on. Most of the media I saw was just reporting what NASCAR said. The picture of the noose didn't start appearing for at least 12 hours. I would have said 24. And, other than a NASCAR pit crew, who they hell knows why the noose there. And the pit crew reported it. THEY thought it should be reported up the chain.

They got George Floyd wrong. They got NASCAR wrong. Both based on incorrect information from the respective authorities. What are you going to do about it?
Well lets see

UVA rape, Well that was a historic incident with the University in question having cleared the accused guy in a Title XI case (which has a standard of evidence far below an actual court case) thus she either had no evidence or he had such overwhelming evidence of innocence there was no possibility of it happening. But Rolling Stones never noticed discrepancies in the story, never talked to the Uni head or anyone involved in the case outside of the person claiming to be the victim and never spoke to the alleged perpetrator who would have given them the same evidence that clear him before. Hell even the girls friends were saying they felt something was off as she kept changing her story.

How about the first hate crime report on the Trump presidency? Girl claims a Trump supporter ripped her head scarf off her head. That could have been debunked very quickly. How? She never filed any such incident report with the police thus it comes off as wanting attention not an actual case of injustice because had she reported it to the police she'd have faced repercussions for filing a false police report.

The Nascar one? Images exist of other garages and even the same garage before the guy moved into it and showed the string tied up the same way in all of them. Wouldn't take much checking.

The assumption and presentation of the media has been to jump to "Trump supporter did it" not "Person alleged it was a Trump supporter"

If twitter wants to fact check they're going to have to start applying corrections too for news companies who are too lazy to update or check info or two biased to want to let the nice narrative they have get ruined by such things as facts.
 

Trunkage

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What do you mean by "the same section"?
Where did I complain about "Trump doing the same thing"?

Seriously your posts are always so hard to understand. Do people you interact with IRL often have a hard time understanding you, or is it just me? Maybe it's a cultural thing? Do other Americans you interact with have a hard time understanding you, too?
Which section? I can help you with that
Imagine if a candidate running for President had his or her tweets tagged with "you should not believe this". Think of how many people use Twitter and how that might influence how they vote? Oh wait, we don't have to imagine it, it's happening.

You have nothing to say on this subject, do you? You have nothing to say about the real potential for causing harm, swinging elections, and manipulating the populace. That's what I'm against, and why I'm against it. There's a potential for REAL HARM when you allow powerful interests to manipulate your thinking. Even if it's just a "this is disputed!"
Hey, just checking. This sentence about the president you wrote here, were you implying Trump as an example? Here I'll make sure I quote you again so you cannot mistake which sentences I'm talking about

Imagine if a candidate running for President had his or her tweets tagged with "you should not believe this". Think of how many people use Twitter and how that might influence how they vote? Oh wait, we don't have to imagine it, it's happening.