Two black Capitol police officers talk about how they were left unprepared the day the building was stormed

Dwarvenhobble

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Thus you can say that someone you dont like wants to do a murder. I get it

Edit: just to be clear, 'someone' being Crimson
A few points

1) I made conditional statements of a hypothetical nature I didn't say they certainly did feel like that

2) People were implying members of this forum were domestic terrorists before

3) It was Cheeto not Crimson (unless you have info I don't then I don't know they're the same person)

4) Again feel free to suggest an alternative if you don't wish to change hearts and minds because I can't see many viable ones

5) If you really wanted to show how wrong I was you could always condemn the people trying to murder others but I feel the answer will be to bring up something else instead.
 

Houseman

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Speaking of being left unprepared:

". . .outgoing Capitol Police Chief, Steve Sund, believes his efforts to secure the premises were -undermined- by a lack of concern from House and Senate security officials who answer directly to Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate leader Mitch McConnell...."

 
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Trunkage

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A few points

1) I made conditional statements of a hypothetical nature I didn't say they certainly did feel like that

2) People were implying members of this forum were domestic terrorists before

3) It was Cheeto not Crimson (unless you have info I don't then I don't know they're the same person)

4) Again feel free to suggest an alternative if you don't wish to change hearts and minds because I can't see many viable ones

5) If you really wanted to show how wrong I was you could always condemn the people trying to murder others but I feel the answer will be to bring up something else instead.
My suggestion... stopping think people here are murders just because you dont like them
 

Dwarvenhobble

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My suggestion... stopping think people here are murders just because you dont like them
Everyone is capable of murder if pushed far enough or believing them are in mortal danger.

I didn't say people here were murders. Tho some here do seem to think others are irredeemable fascists but are somewhat unwilling to then say how they believe such things should be dealt with though they're happy to claim they don't want to live or work in a society alongside said individuals.
 

Kwak

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The first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40 p.m.
“As soon as they hit the fence line, the fight was on,” Sund said. “Violent confrontations from the start. They came with riot helmets, gas masks, shields, pepper spray, fireworks, climbing gear — climbing gear! — explosives, metal pipes, baseball bats. I have never seen anything like it in 30 years of events in Washington.”
 
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Trunkage

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The first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40 p.m.
“As soon as they hit the fence line, the fight was on,” Sund said. “Violent confrontations from the start. They came with riot helmets, gas masks, shields, pepper spray, fireworks, climbing gear — climbing gear! — explosives, metal pipes, baseball bats. I have never seen anything like it in 30 years of events in Washington.”
As far as I understand, usually the National Guard is headed up by the commander in chief... which is why the request was denied since the commander in chief asked for the protest. I.e. the National Guard could, for example, be asked to remove police.
 

Houseman

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The first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40 p.m.
“As soon as they hit the fence line, the fight was on,” Sund said. “Violent confrontations from the start. They came with riot helmets, gas masks, shields, pepper spray, fireworks, climbing gear — climbing gear! — explosives, metal pipes, baseball bats. I have never seen anything like it in 30 years of events in Washington.”
And yet, at 12:48, Trump was still giving his speech as a recording of the live broadcast demonstrates (timestamped video)

Weird how Trump is being blamed for inciting a riot before he actually directed anybody to the Capitol.
 
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Agema

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And yet, at 12:48, Trump was still giving his speech as a recording of the live broadcast demonstrates (timestamped video)

Weird how Trump is being blamed for inciting a riot before he actually directed anybody to the Capitol.
Depends. He actually announces they're going to march on the Capitol quite early in the speech. He then blathers on for an extraordinarily long time until he wraps up. Potentially, of course, some of his fans left the speech early to push at barricades. I'd have left early just to avoid that incoherent babble.

More likely, Kwak just got the time wrong, as other sources suggest they arrived ~13.10 - 13.15.
 

CaitSeith

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Then why aren't they still there?
Because if the good apples leave, ACAB becomes literal.

Sorry. Misread the question as "why ARE they still there" (they being the officers complaining about it).
 

Houseman

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Depends. He actually announces they're going to march on the Capitol quite early in the speech. He then blathers on for an extraordinarily long time until he wraps up. Potentially, of course, some of his fans left the speech early to push at barricades. I'd have left early just to avoid that incoherent babble.

More likely, Kwak just got the time wrong, as other sources suggest they arrived ~13.10 - 13.15.
I was watching both streams, Trumps speech, and the Electoral College results, simultaneously. Congress had already started while Trump was still going on, at that point, I stopped watching Trump and turned my attention to Congress. Shortly after, a hot mic said that protesters were in the building.

I don't know if one of the streams was delayed or whatnot, but it seemed that Trump ending his speech and the capitol being breached happened too fast for Trump to have "caused" it.

It could be that the people who were too far away, and couldn't hear the speech, went over there ahead of time. That's more likely than die-hard Trump supporters getting bored of Trump's speech.

Or I could just have the timing wrong. Like said, It just "seemed" to me to have happened too fast to say it's cause-and-effect.
 

Houseman

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Here's more regarding the above discussion on the timing of the speech:

 

Kwak

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Weird how Trump is being blamed for inciting a riot before he actually directed anybody to the Capitol.
He'd incited it already.



"[email protected] and Republican Senators have to get tougher, or you won’t have a Republican Party anymore. We won the Presidential Election, by a lot. FIGHT FOR IT. Don’t let them take it away!" he tweeted Dec. 18.

In December, Trump also issued a battle cry to his supporters broadly, encouraging them to gather on his behalf Jan. 6.

Dec. 12: On the day of pro-Trump rallies in Washington, D.C., Trump tweeted "Wow! Thousands of people forming in Washington (D.C.) for Stop the Steal. Didn’t know about this, but I’ll be seeing them! #MAGA."

Dec. 12: "WE HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!" Trump said in another tweet.

Dec. 19: Trump tweeted his praise for a report by his adviser Peter Navarro alleging election fraud: "A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

Dec. 26: Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."

Dec. 27: "See you in Washington, DC, on January 6th. Don’t miss it. Information to follow!" Trump tweeted.

Jan. 1: "The BIG Protest Rally in Washington, D.C., will take place at 11.00 A.M. on January 6th. Locational details to follow. StopTheSteal!" Trump tweeted.

Jan. 1: "January 6th. See you in D.C." Trump tweeted.

Jan. 3: Trump retweeted @JenLawrence21, an organizer of a March for Trump bus tour: "Now we will bring it to DC on Jan 6 and PROUDLY stand beside you!"

Jan. 3: Trump retweeted Amy Kremer, another promoter of the march who said, "We are excited to announce the site of our January 6th event will be The Ellipse in the President’s Park, just steps from the White House!"

Jan. 3: Trump retweeted @CodeMonkeyZ: "If you are planning to attend peaceful protests in DC on the 6th, i recommend wearing a body camera. The more video angles of that day the better."

Jan. 4: At a rally in Georgia the day before the Senate runoffs, Trump repeated his grievances about his own election. He spoke about a continued fight, both for himself and the Senate.

"If the liberal Democrats take the Senate and the White House — and they’re not taking this White House — we’re going to fight like hell, I’ll tell you right now," Trump said.

"We’re going to take it back," Trump said.
 

Kwak

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And yet, at 12:48, Trump was still giving his speech as a recording of the live broadcast demonstrates (timestamped video)

About 15 minutes into his speech, Mr. Trump tells rally attendees to walk to the Capitol. “You have to show strength,” he says.

At this moment, the Capitol grounds are protected by temporary perimeter fences, and there are few officers equipped to defend them.

12:17 p.m. South of White House



Supporters leave the rally in a steady stream before Mr. Trump’s speech ends, and they head toward the Capitol.

12:29 p.m. Constitution Ave.


As they arrive, another crowd of Trump supporters that has already gathered along the west perimeter fence becomes more agitated.

12:49 p.m. West of the Capitol grounds