U.K. Copyright Lawyer Quits Over Death Threats

[euro2019]

It's seems pretty obvious to me that a majority of people talking about taking others to court have never stepped foot in a court room or paid a lawyer to do anything for them. Before people start saying that they can count sue for harassment, let me make this point clear.

Lawyers cost money people. Minimum 100-150 going upwards to 500 an hour in fact (which ignorant people call rediculous, but the amount of education and money you go through to become one and the tiring hours and hours of work they do is worth the fees IMO. I have acquaintences whom are lawyers and they work from 7am to 10pm some of them on weekdays, it's not an easy job.). You need multiple meetings and also go through multiple court dates. It's a very stressful procedure and there's a big chance of not gaining back what you spent, and unless you're really sure you can regain the amount of money you spent on lawyer fees, the stress and money spent isn't worth it.

File-sharing is a very iffy topic. It's that "think we do but don't talk about" kind of thing. Barely anyone can honestly deny never P2P'ing software or music nowadays, everyone's done it.

People who make money off their products are right to do so, and I don't believe in the BS cap that once they make a certain amount of money off it, it should be free. No. If you make a movie, and it sells, and people willingly shell out 12.00$ to go see it, you get that money, regardless.

Now I in now way agree with the firm fining these people 700$ for something that probably cost 30$. But I can't say that copyright lawyers are bad people. Taking something people work for and giving it for free is still robbing them of money that is rightfully theirs (for some twisted reason people see making money off something you work for as wrong, I don't see where the logic comes from with this).

I understand this makes me a hypocrite, but I in no way would argue that if I were to get one of these letters that I was some way in the "Right". Bomb threats are definitely not the way to go with something like this and I view that as incredibly extremist. Copyright laws are put in place for a reason, and it's not a "can you please not do it if it's not too much to ask?" thing, its a "This is Illegal, Don't Do it" thing, and for those of us who still do it we all run the risk. However, fining people for these absurd amounts of money and blackmailing them with "pay this or face an even heavier lawsuit" is criminal.

There unfortunately is no real way to fix this. Hell. People even pirate 99 cent apps from the apple app store. 99 CENTS! Christ.

ADD: I don't quite get why copyright activists however; demonize file sharers so much.
http://www.mp3newswire.net/graphics/CommunistP2P.jpg
Is this really what the world if coming to?

 

[(LK)]

Being forced to abandon a career in extortion due to being threatened is particularly poetic.

Look, guys. I don't like copyright law much when it's enforced like this either. I don't like corporate bully lawyers, and it's clear that what he was doing was quite dubious. But what those guys did when they threatened the lawyer was nothing short of terrorism.

Casting your definition of that word so wide that it means anything that uses fear to force someone to make a decision would mean that terrorists threatened another terrorist into abandoning terrorism. Hardly an outrage.

His law firm was operating on the premise that he would threaten to destroy people's financial stability (and potentially the rest of their living life) under the cost of a legal defense (that cost doesn't change very much whether you're guilty or not), unless they paid a fee up front. There's more than one way to ruin a life, and threatening to destroy someone's life is threatening to destroy someone's life, it doesn't matter if your threats are a lifetime of debt or the use of violence. They're both just threats and they're both unethical coercion.

"If you don't do (x) I am going to harm you in way". Either neither was terrorism or both were, the way you want to define that word. You have to apply the word to everyone the definition applies to, not only those you wish to portray as being more in the wrong.

Nobody should have to live with death threats. I'm totally in agreement on that. But nobody should be sent a letter, by someone who doesn't care if they're guilty or not, and told that if they don't pay a fee immediately, it will cost them thousands of pounds to defend themself (guilty or not, the cost doesn't differ much either way). They're both the same damn thing, the only difference is the method they threaten to use.

 

[Exort]

In these day, even game developers get death threats, I find it hard to believe a LAWYER would quit for that.

 

[ShadowKatt]

I know that this whole forum is up in arms feeling the victory, but I hope that I'm not the only one that finds this a bit troubling.

I'm more than glad to see they dropped the suits, that's awesome. But not they're up against a rock and a hard place. They've made themselves look weak like they'll pander to threats. When these things happen, escalation is inevitable. What's going to happen next? Bomb threats at the local mayors office if he passes/doesn't pass an ordinance? Death threats if parliment passes/doesn't pass a law? There is a reason you don't negotiate with terrorists, and while there was no negotiation involved, by backing down they may have just killed off their business.

Of course, if the alternative is killing a purrson, I suppose in the end it's the lesser of two evils. And to everyone that says that speech on the internet shouldn't be believed, it's a threat. I'm a huge advocate of free speech(In fact I got probation for defending it, welcome to the totalitarian escapist) you should still take threats seriously regardless of where they come from. That doesn't mean censor, punish, and oppress, but be on guard.

 

[JDKJ]

So now creators are gonna start being afraid/hesitant to protect their work, since the lawyers are gonna start receiving death and bomb threats. This piracy thing is getting way out of hand. When will people realize that piracy does nothing but harm the creator and damage sales? And now the pirates are actually threatening physical violence if lawyers are called in to arbitrate?

I'm sorry, but this is just going too far.

If it's so damaging then why are actors still paid millions of dollars for something that barely qualifies as work? Don't buy into the propaganda, product placement, corporate sponsorship etc are far more valuable than DVD sales. The film industry is never going to collapse due to piracy, nor will the music industry. My understanding is that most bands revenue comes from tours, with record companies taking the lion's share of record sales and in my opinion, if the record companies go down, all these Disney 'musicians' and manufactured talentless acts will cease to be, and the real talent will get a chance. Download all you can and rejoice

While the music industry as a whole may survive, there's no disputing that sales of recorded music have steadily swirled down the toilet, in large part owing to illegal downloading and file sharing. And there's a correlation between revenue from touring and record sales (or, at least, radio spins and TV airings). If an act isn't getting sales and/or spins and airings, then they won't have much name recognition and if they don't have name recognition, it'll be difficult to book tours. In short, no sales or spins, no major tours. And sales and/or spins and airings are hard to get if the act isn't signed to a major label.

The "real talent" (whatever that means) will hardly ever get the chance to stand out in the crowd (not in any financially meaningful way) because the major players have the industry on lock. They always have and they always will. The only talent that gets heard in any meaningful way is usually only the talent in which the major players have invested major money.

 

[(LK)]

I know that this whole forum is up in arms feeling the victory, but I hope that I'm not the only one that finds this a bit troubling.

I'm more than glad to see they dropped the suits, that's awesome. But not they're up against a rock and a hard place. They've made themselves look weak like they'll pander to threats. When these things happen, escalation is inevitable. What's going to happen next? Bomb threats at the local mayors office if he passes/doesn't pass an ordinance? Death threats if parliment passes/doesn't pass a law? There is a reason you don't negotiate with terrorists, and while there was no negotiation involved, by backing down they may have just killed off their business.

Of course, if the alternative is killing a purrson, I suppose in the end it's the lesser of two evils. And to everyone that says that speech on the internet shouldn't be believed, it's a threat. I'm a huge advocate of free speech(In fact I got probation for defending it, welcome to the totalitarian escapist) you should still take threats seriously regardless of where they come from. That doesn't mean censor, punish, and oppress, but be on guard.

In the first two paragraphs you're basically making a "slippery slope" argument, and while I respect where you're coming from those arguments are a fallacy because they really just don't reflect reality. The future progression they assume is usually incorrect. Usually they're just hyperbolic and make really stupid predictions.

In this case it's actually because your "what's next?" stuff already does happen, and it's just part of being a public figure that crazy people will threaten you. It's unfortunate but it's already illegal to make death threats and people are already jailed for it. What else can you do? Opinions on an internet forum aren't going to sway someone who isn't already swayed by the chance of being thrown in jail. It happened, it'll keep happening, and the stuff you're worried about happens all the time. It's nothing to panic about.

The reason people are unsympathetic is because he's benefiting from a double-standard that says it's okay to threaten to destroy a life the way he did it, but not okay the way people did it to him.

If there isn't a judiciary means to adequately punish what he did wrong, people are just going to be happy that he was somehow punished.

 

[Loonerinoes]

If your job entails pissing off thousands of people anonymously and over real money, justly or unjustly, do not cry when this sort of thing happens. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong in the end - what matters is that if he didn't expect this would happen after trying to wring cash out of anyone they could legally...their lack of foresight amazes me.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Scam or not (and yes, it certainly seems that way, and it wouldn't be Crossley's first run-in with the powers that be over his bad behaviour), threats of violence is never the answer. But before there can be an answer, there has to be a question, and I think the question right now is whether these threats are real at all. MediaCAT wanted out but the judge wouldn't let it slide, presumably because of the numerous allegations of inappropriate conduct, so suddenly the lawyer cries "death threat" and quits. Is any judge going to force him to stick around when his very life is threatened? I don't think so. But it all seems rather oddly convenient to me.

 

[Loonerinoes]

Scam or not (and yes, it certainly seems that way, and it wouldn't be Crossley's first run-in with the powers that be over his bad behaviour), threats of violence is never the answer. But before there can be an answer, there has to be a question, and I think the question right now is whether these threats are real at all. MediaCAT wanted out but the judge wouldn't let it slide, presumably because of the numerous allegations of inappropriate conduct, so suddenly the lawyer cries "death threat" and quits. Is any judge going to force him to stick around when his very life is threatened? I don't think so. But it all seems rather oddly convenient to me.

Fair enough.

Also possible these threats were I dunno...typical anon style. Things like pizza deliveries, prank calls to his house...something that would sooner just constitute harassment rather than outright death threats but of course they decide to take what they can get for the sake of convenience.

Either way, someone would do well to look into this a little closer since in this light this once again reminds me a bit of that jailbreaking story on the part of the prosecutors - if you see your chances of victory diminishing (like say the judge publically slamming you on your tactics), just settle and opt out of the process so it won't go on record that you officially lost. *sigh* Not quite the same but...same kinds of methods it seems to me.

 

[Xanthious]

Ya know what you call a copyright lawyer being squeegee'd off the wall in little bits? . . . . A good start. These guys are thugs with law degrees. It's not about how winnable of a case they may or may not have it's about threatening people en mass and hoping for the best regardless if the people are innocent or guilty. The bottom line is all they care about.

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

Well, for once, in this case:
If you act like an complete asshole you should be prepared for a bloody nose.

If the threats were real we`ll probably never find out. But IF: yes, I am worried about the aggressive people behind that.

 

[icame]

I do like that their trying to get money out of the pirates...but their going about it in the wrong way. You can't just send out a letter like that to somebody you haven't event proved has done anything. Though those who sent out the death threats are complete pricks and I hope they one day pay for what they do.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

And good riddance to him. That's blackmail he was pulling.

 

[Asehujiko]

So now creators are gonna start being afraid/hesitant to protect their work, since the lawyers are gonna start receiving death and bomb threats. This piracy thing is getting way out of hand. When will people realize that piracy does nothing but harm the creator and damage sales? And now the pirates are actually threatening physical violence if lawyers are called in to arbitrate?

I'm sorry, but this is just going too far.

Except that this guy isn't protecting anything. He (illegally) data mines IP adresses that are linked to a real adress and sends out a letter saying "pay me $5000 or I'll sue you for nothing and it'll take you $50000 in court fees to be considered innocent and you also risk a default judgment for $500000". Up to and including threatening an 87 year old married man over "infringing copyright of" gay porn.

 

[BabyRaptor]

So now creators are gonna start being afraid/hesitant to protect their work, since the lawyers are gonna start receiving death and bomb threats. This piracy thing is getting way out of hand. When will people realize that piracy does nothing but harm the creator and damage sales? And now the pirates are actually threatening physical violence if lawyers are called in to arbitrate?

I'm sorry, but this is just going too far.

There's arbitrating and then there's what these lawyers are doing. The lawyers sending these letters don't even have proof the recipients pirated anything.

I don't defend piracy, but all these cases are is bullying. And it should be illegal. So I say good on the people that fired back, even if they didn't go about it the best way.

 

[tkioz]

Honestly if he's surprised by getting threatened after what he did he's a fucking idiot. I don't condone threats of violence and death, but come-on a blind wombat could see this shit coming a mile away.

He was sending out threatening letters, at what was basically random, and he's shocked he managed to tag a few wackos? His letters at the very least were going to cause stress and at extremes be the tipping point in pushing some insane berk over the edge; so what the fuck did he expect?

In any given grouping of people of a significant size, anywhere, you're going to find some dude or chick who's just not all there in the head, they might not look it, you might not be able to tell until someone like this lawyer pushes them over the edge into outright batshit behaviour.

So again, I don't condone it, but what the fuck did this dickhead expect?

 

[Kinguendo]

You do wonder if there's a real difference between a bomb threat and a death threat.

And given the hyperbole regularly engaged in over the 'net, whether this was just business as usual. It's not like it's the first time a lawyer will have been threatened.

Of course there is "I am gonna blow something up!" and "I am gonna kill something... up!", see?

OT: Bloody scum!

Not the murderers and demo experts (apparently), I mean the lawyers. Oh, whats that? People DONT appreciate you blackmailing them? Well bugger me, thats a surprise.

 

[DTWolfwood]

wait the company wants to drop the cases now but the judge isn't going to let them?! wtf?

is the judge going to waive the legal fees since neither party wants a court case?

well now see what happens when you piss off too many ppl at once? XD

 

[Fearzone]

Too bad they were just threats.