U.S. Isolation: Good or Bad?

AceDiamond

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Lets see now. For the first 8 years of the 21st century we had a president and administration that actively sought to render the UN a toothless organization through circumventing it when they didn't buy our lies, and on top of that our president had never even been outside the borders of the country before becoming president. Given how things have turned out as a result, the idea that we should somehow become more isolationist is silly and dangerous. We tried to be isolationist after World War I and look at what happened. It didn't do us any good whatsoever and it probably did the world less good (such as the fact that the US not joining it's own concept of the League of Nations rendering that organization useless from the get-go). Just because the whole world hates us right now (which was our own damn fault) doesn't mean we should go take our ball and go home. We should work to repair those problematic relationships with other countries. In fact, given how Iran is refusing to listen to the UN the last thing we need is a country like ours suddenly saying "you know what, fuck this noise, we're done"

tl;dr version: Fortress America is a dumb idea.
 

Cabisco

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PiotrSkut87 said:
We would just have a lot more Africans who would go on killing themselves in other ways and circumstances. Africa is a completely unfixable situation which if we just left to its own devices everyone involved would be better off. Stupid bleeding hearts who continue to feed the Africans and give them medical care are just causing them to pump out even more kids to continue the cycle of violence, famine, and disease.
Wait, are you calling me a stupid bleeding heart? Because i'm the guy who wants to send in an army to fuck up Robert Mugabe and sort the countries out properly, not just sending over money which the corrupt government officals proceed to take. Unfixable is a very pessimistic view, though when you look at what we are doing now to help (i.e. simply asking "please stop") your very close to realistic. I can understand and empathize with your viewpoint entirely

EDIT: just screwed up the quoting, now fixed.
 

Wintermoot

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orangebandguy said:
What? As in separating yourselves from the UN?

I don't want what happened in Fallout to become a reality. It's how it all starts.

But in all seriousness I think you need be restrained a little bit with all those nukes and everything, I may have deviated entirely from what you meant but your post isn't very clear.
nope Fallout started with oil and coal reserves running drie
 

theshadavid

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Aug 10, 2009
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Beowulf DW said:
According to a recent Pew Research Center survey, covered in a recent article of the Centre Daily Times, 49% of Americans (the highest percentage in decades) now believe that the U.S. should "mind its own business."

Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing? Would the U.S. and the World be better off if we just keep to ourselves for a little while?
A recent study has shown that 100% of Americans don't really care what other countries think of them.
 

Cabisco

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Amnestic said:
I wouldn't advise it, I'd have you assassinated before our first day in office was finished.

I'm not big on sharing leadership.
Hahahaha thats one way to prove my point about dictatorships. Don't worry, i reckon you wouldn't of survived the coronation. Yes we are going to be kings! well, i am.
 

orangebandguy

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henritje said:
orangebandguy said:
What? As in separating yourselves from the UN?

I don't want what happened in Fallout to become a reality. It's how it all starts.

But in all seriousness I think you need be restrained a little bit with all those nukes and everything, I may have deviated entirely from what you meant but your post isn't very clear.
nope Fallout started with oil and coal reserves running drie
Well it came into it somewhere, the newspaper cuttings are the only evidence there is though.
Making everything pre-war very ambiguous.
 

karlos

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america seems to think they are the high of the high, rich of the rich, big of the big

i think it would be better if they stopped trying to have a say in the EU, for one, and not having such a HUGE voice in the world.

they are only one country.
 

Xpwn3ntial

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Dec 22, 2008
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Beowulf DW said:
According to a recent Pew Research Center survey, covered in a recent article of the Centre Daily Times, 49% of Americans (the highest percentage in decades) now believe that the U.S. should "mind its own business."

Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing? Would the U.S. and the World be better off if we just keep to ourselves for a little while?
Can't be any worse than what we're doing now.
 

robman1130

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Amnestic said:
Define "mind its own business". That has a load of connotations and I'm not sure which one I should be debating.

Should they stop trying to "bring democracy to other countries"? Probably. You should probably hurry up and pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan while you're at it.

Should they close off the borders, restrict trade, eliminate all immigration and build a 500ft high wall around their country? Ah, no. Considering how much of the U.S. deficit other countries own, they actually can't isolate themselves. They rely on other countries and other countries rely on them.

Best thing you could do is stop spending 0.7-1.1 trillion dollars a year on defense and military costs. Seriously. That's just farkin' stupid.
takes alota money to be too big to fail
 

Beowulf DW

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theshadavid said:
Beowulf DW said:
According to a recent Pew Research Center survey, covered in a recent article of the Centre Daily Times, 49% of Americans (the highest percentage in decades) now believe that the U.S. should "mind its own business."

Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing? Would the U.S. and the World be better off if we just keep to ourselves for a little while?
A recent study has shown that 100% of Americans don't really care what other countries think of them.
Can't be 100% exactly, because I care.
 

robman1130

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Cargando said:
Bad idea, bad idea. If America was a smaller country, it would be fine, but you can't be world's only superpower and isolate yourself completely. You can see what happened last time with WWII - Pearl Harbour. Although, to be fair, at the time America was halfway between Isolationism and Interventionism.
only superpower? what? china fall of the face of the earth again?
 

SimuLord

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Aug 20, 2008
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"US isolation was great in the 30s. Unfortunately, it was great for Hitler's Germany and Tojo's Japan." - P.J. O'Rourke.

And if isolationists in Congress had their way after WW2, the Marshall Plan never would've gotten off the ground, Western Europe would've gone Communist, and the Soviets would've handily won the Cold War, or the world would've settled into an Orwellian superstate collection. Orwell based the notion of Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia on just such a scenario.
 

brenatevi

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Demon ID said:
PiotrSkut87 said:
We would just have a lot more Africans who would go on killing themselves in other ways and circumstances. Africa is a completely unfixable situation which if we just left to its own devices everyone involved would be better off. Stupid bleeding hearts who continue to feed the Africans and give them medical care are just causing them to pump out even more kids to continue the cycle of violence, famine, and disease.
Wait, are you calling me a stupid bleeding heart? Because i'm the guy who wants to send in an army to fuck up Robert Mugabe and sort the countries out properly, not just sending over money which the corrupt government officals proceed to take. Unfixable is a very pessimistic view, though when you look at what we are doing now to help (i.e. simply asking "please stop") your very close to realistic. I can understand and empathize with your viewpoint entirely

EDIT: just screwed up the quoting, now fixed.
Yet at the same time, this sort of thinking is what lead to our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place, IMO. I know what everyone else says, but you'll have to excuse me for not buying it. And I'm also going to say that I don't think our involvement there is what lead to the "messes" over there, but instead lack of foresight in what to do once we "won." In other words, before we started to kick Saddam's ass, we didn't stop and ourselves "What do we do after this?" I know everyone gets angry about the involvement in the first place, but I get annoyed that the twits didn't look 20 years down the line. Or hell, five years down the line. Would 5 years of thinking have hurt? Don't answer that.

And this is the actual failing of modern foreign policy... no, wait, modern leadership... nope, one more time, the Leadership of almost every major nation since the beginning of time. "Oh, I want to implement this idea, and it will be grand or everyone will have puppies and cookies when I'm done." Really? How are you going to pay for it? *silence* "How dare you question me?! Off with your head." OK. And twenty years later (if not sooner) the nation is broke, and the wolves at the door, so that another short sighted twerp with a grand plan tries something similar and it all falls apart again.

As others have pointed out, the 20th century is the epitome of "fix it now" thinking, without worrying about what their children will have to deal with. But that's people for you. Getting them to change is easier said than done.
 

annoyinglizardvoice

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I don't think complete isolation would be a good thing, but a bit of "look before you leap" would be a good idea when abroad.
 

Cabisco

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brenatevi said:
Cut it off for the sake of saving space
Thats the thing, i would want to stay in for the long hawl. I mean i know many people are against afghanistan, iraq sure but i actually do want us to stay their and try to make the world a better place, yes strangely i'm anti why we went, pro staying trying to make the country better. I agree, we should of planned for 20 years down the line, but i still would want to go there and try to make things better.
 

caprisun

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YES YES A MILLION TIMES YES!!! seriously its tearing the world apart, and is destroying other countries economies!! Please stop lol ^^