One of the hardest things to accept as a veteran, after coming home, is that the rights you guaranteed through your service include the right for people to say and do shit that you find inappropriate.
U.S. Spec Ops Veteran: Modern Warfare 3 Commercial a "New Low"
- Thread starter Hevva
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Sure is easy to say "Get over it" or "It's made up stuff" or even "Dude chill it's just a game" when you haven't gone through what he has, isn't it? I agree with it, imo. Just show portions of the game, not this, even if I do find the commercial to be all kinds of total awesome.
''Freedom isn't free, yeah theres a hefty-fukin-fee''
Because every American soldier serving in Afghanistan (for instance), sits and broods and worries about how seriously the world takes their situation... soldiers of all nations get by, and the truth is that they are more likely to make light of their situation than anyone. My brother served in Iraq and absolutely loves the COD games, he spent his free time palette wrestling, building paddling pools from fire hoses, and black market Leatherman trading. What? - you mean sodiers don't spend their non-shooty time dry shaving with broken glass, brooding over pictures of their family, and field stripping their rifle blindfolded?
I'm probably painting a massive target on my chest, but for fucks sake, you joined the armed services, nobody forced you, we appreciate all that the forces do but stop expecting us to fall to our knees in appreciation of the freedom you somehow afford us. It's your job, you choose it - MW3 is a videogame, if it took itself as seriously as a soldier has to take his/her job, then it would be no fun.
To quote Faith no More...
We care a lot about the army navy air force and marines
We care a lot about the SF, NY and LAPD
We care a lot about you people, about your guns
about the wars you're fighting gee that looks like fun
Anyone offended by that advert needs to wind their neck back in, and realise it's about a videogame, not being a real soldier, if someone can't differentiate the two then thats their problem, not ours. It's all the focus and attention on the armed forces that mean games like MW3 are popular in the first place - I guess we should stop glorifying the military, Paul Senior from OCC will be devestated.
Because every American soldier serving in Afghanistan (for instance), sits and broods and worries about how seriously the world takes their situation... soldiers of all nations get by, and the truth is that they are more likely to make light of their situation than anyone. My brother served in Iraq and absolutely loves the COD games, he spent his free time palette wrestling, building paddling pools from fire hoses, and black market Leatherman trading. What? - you mean sodiers don't spend their non-shooty time dry shaving with broken glass, brooding over pictures of their family, and field stripping their rifle blindfolded?
I'm probably painting a massive target on my chest, but for fucks sake, you joined the armed services, nobody forced you, we appreciate all that the forces do but stop expecting us to fall to our knees in appreciation of the freedom you somehow afford us. It's your job, you choose it - MW3 is a videogame, if it took itself as seriously as a soldier has to take his/her job, then it would be no fun.
To quote Faith no More...
We care a lot about the army navy air force and marines
We care a lot about the SF, NY and LAPD
We care a lot about you people, about your guns
about the wars you're fighting gee that looks like fun
Anyone offended by that advert needs to wind their neck back in, and realise it's about a videogame, not being a real soldier, if someone can't differentiate the two then thats their problem, not ours. It's all the focus and attention on the armed forces that mean games like MW3 are popular in the first place - I guess we should stop glorifying the military, Paul Senior from OCC will be devestated.
So flag draped coffins, thousands dead, crippled soldiers, weeping families and people are upset about the GAME?
Have you ever tried getting your point across using something that isn't as popular as the most popular thing ever? It's annoying because no one listens to you. With Modern Warfare 3, which is as hot as a war game can get without being cooked on a barbeque, people will pay attention to him. Remember that EPA guy from the Simpsons movie.Technicka said:
I remember the whole Portal 2 adoption debacle. That was touchy because it wasn't the actual adopted child that complained about it but rather the parents who have no idea how the child would react to it. This, however, pricks the sensitive spots of people who have had their arms blown off, have burnt down buildings with people inside them, lost precious friends, may die without seeing their families ever again and I have NO idea what else they're going through. If I am to guess as to how Grady feels about this, this is like a ventriloquist doing an act with your own dead dog.GreatTeacherCAW said:
I found the ad quite entertaining, hell there are a million movies out there that trivialise war, this is just an ad for a video game...they don't have any right to get butt hurt I mean...it's not as if Activision are bombing villages of children or opening fire on civilians. So this Grady can whine all day long.
In reality though, you'd be hard pressed to find an actual soldier who takes offence to this kind of stuff. It doesn't trivialise war, it trivialises a game, which is trivial...In fact the advert is more fun than the game.
In reality though, you'd be hard pressed to find an actual soldier who takes offence to this kind of stuff. It doesn't trivialise war, it trivialises a game, which is trivial...In fact the advert is more fun than the game.
I'm sorry, I get the "I've been in real war" sensibility, and I agree the EA marketing department has committed a few atrocities in the last decade, but I don't consider this to be one.
Its not a very good commercial either, but I don't find it offensive, it has no intention of depicting the realities of war, it doesn't even bother to try, its about gamers and how they immerse themselves in the make-believe world of any particular game. Let me highlight that: MAKE-BELIEVE. Its escapism and pretend, everybody does it towards different subjects and in different ways, don't take it seriously.
Giving this commercial enough credit to find it offensive is like being offended by a little kid playing soldier or cowboy with a plastic gun, or saying that Predator is a bad movie because the action sequences are unrealistic and oversimplify real combat. Of course its unrealistic and simplified, Arnold Schwartzneger is not a soldier or even a good actor
Also as some have mentioned before, whenever a game tries to take war seriously, depict its real horrors and nature, it gets a hell of a lot of heat for it and I find that hypocritical.
Its not a very good commercial either, but I don't find it offensive, it has no intention of depicting the realities of war, it doesn't even bother to try, its about gamers and how they immerse themselves in the make-believe world of any particular game. Let me highlight that: MAKE-BELIEVE. Its escapism and pretend, everybody does it towards different subjects and in different ways, don't take it seriously.
Giving this commercial enough credit to find it offensive is like being offended by a little kid playing soldier or cowboy with a plastic gun, or saying that Predator is a bad movie because the action sequences are unrealistic and oversimplify real combat. Of course its unrealistic and simplified, Arnold Schwartzneger is not a soldier or even a good actor
Also as some have mentioned before, whenever a game tries to take war seriously, depict its real horrors and nature, it gets a hell of a lot of heat for it and I find that hypocritical.
Really we can't argue that fiction is fiction? What the hell is that nonsense? If you were to attack a writer for his fictional work I'm 99.9% sure that's the argument he would use and i don't see how that's invalid just because you have a problem with it. And here's my real pet peeve. Every other form of media gets a free pass to do whatever it wants but oh wait.... a video game did something violent? lets see if we can sue them and get lots of money. How about the last rambo where he went into vietnam and slaughtered an entire regiment of men using a Gatling gun. In said scene not an image was spared. Heads exploded like grapes. And he was depicted as the good guy even though he committed mass murder without any kind of official approval (not that, thats right but thats another topic). Well im pretty sure some vets probably didn't like that either but since its Sylvester Stallone its a freebie. So hold everything else to your petty standards before you come crying about a commercial that actually hit its target audience. That's just one example, we could go on like this for days but you know what at the end of the day I don't want any of those things to be "changed" or "focus grouped." Thats how you end up with crappy star wars remakes or in general bland media or even worse.....politcal correctness. Its ideas like that that make it so a businesses can't hang a cross in its window or a star of david (or whatever religion you like its self expression) and neighborhoods make you take down your flags. If you start censoring where does it end? So get over it. its all offensive to someone. AND this isn't even particularly offensive.sheah1 said:
Now I'm starting to feel like a jerk because I actually liked that commercial a lot. I personally interpreted it as a depiction of a player's experience in the multiplayer campaigns of CoD. Just the fact that it had the A-list stars running around prettymuch put me in "this is some sort of a simulation, isn't it" frame of mind. It reminded me of that commercial that Kolby Bryant and other celebs supposedly got in trouble for. The one where the deli man does the dramatic walkaway from an explosion at the end, where it's very clear they're all "people from different walks of life" playing a game.
Perhaps they could have made it seem more like a game than guys being thrown into a semi-real situation. I dunno, maybe a few more effects that you find in the multiplayer mode to make it obvious that they're playing a game--a cutaway to them on the couches of their homes or something. Having never been to war, I cannot begin to imagine how wargames in general might make a veteran feel. But I do have to wonder if there is even a remote chance of making an ad campaign for war video games that doesn't upset someone who has had that personal experience.
Perhaps they could have made it seem more like a game than guys being thrown into a semi-real situation. I dunno, maybe a few more effects that you find in the multiplayer mode to make it obvious that they're playing a game--a cutaway to them on the couches of their homes or something. Having never been to war, I cannot begin to imagine how wargames in general might make a veteran feel. But I do have to wonder if there is even a remote chance of making an ad campaign for war video games that doesn't upset someone who has had that personal experience.
I've always had a problem with the arguement of something 'trivialising war' because very rarely does anyone actually go into detail to explain what that actually means and what the effects are.
How does one trivialise a war exactly?
This arguement could be seen as being similar to suggesting that shows like CSI trivialise crimes like rape and murder by making them 'just another (glamourous) day at the office' rather than horrible crimes.
A large part of things such as video games and films is that they provide a source of fantasy and escapism, just because a setting is simmilar to real life doesn't mean it's trying to be realistic (just look at Call of Duty for evidence of this practice in action).
Imagine if films like Die Hard adhered to a very strict sense of 'realism' and showed the real issues and consequences of being caught in a terrorist attack and hostage situation (and even more so the issue of being a police officer in this situation), it'd be a very different movie (and more than likely a very bleak one too).
I can understand that some veterans may not like games like Call of Duty because of things like painful memories or experiences etc. but for people like that I reccomend the vastly more simple solution of simply not playing them and just ignoring the commercials or changing the channel.
How does one trivialise a war exactly?
This arguement could be seen as being similar to suggesting that shows like CSI trivialise crimes like rape and murder by making them 'just another (glamourous) day at the office' rather than horrible crimes.
A large part of things such as video games and films is that they provide a source of fantasy and escapism, just because a setting is simmilar to real life doesn't mean it's trying to be realistic (just look at Call of Duty for evidence of this practice in action).
Imagine if films like Die Hard adhered to a very strict sense of 'realism' and showed the real issues and consequences of being caught in a terrorist attack and hostage situation (and even more so the issue of being a police officer in this situation), it'd be a very different movie (and more than likely a very bleak one too).
I can understand that some veterans may not like games like Call of Duty because of things like painful memories or experiences etc. but for people like that I reccomend the vastly more simple solution of simply not playing them and just ignoring the commercials or changing the channel.
Why is this even a discussion?
Because he's a soldier - what about the silent majority or people, soldiers included who were not offended by the advert?
Do we really need another blowhard American having a go at videogames, or should we disregard this fool. Just because he's an American soldier some people think that affords him a higher opinion on this, well it doesn't - the only opinion that matters is your own - its an advert FFS!
If everyone had this apparant weight behind their opinion, and everyone voiced their opinion - then we'd get nothing else done. It's not as if EA will pay him any mind, they know their target audience, so what if some soldier got offended. Newsflash GI, MW3 was not made for you, go play Americas Army (on your own probably) if you don't like it. MW3 is developed for and marketted at gamers, not soldiers, it's not a simulation, it's a videogame. But that's the crux of the whole thing isn't it, gamers are too stoopid to know the difference, it takes a soldier to come along and say ''Hey guys, that's not a realistic depiction of war, in fact it makes light of it''. Boo-bloody-Hoo, why on earth should we care what 1 soldier thinks compared to the thousands of soldiers who are diehard COD fans.
Personally I am more offended by the military adverts, the ones proclaiming the life of a soldier is a big adventure full of gadgets and cool guns and bettering yourself. This 1 soldier does not speak for the military, and we should weigh his opinion accordingly (in other words disregard it as you would a random post on this forum).
Because he's a soldier - what about the silent majority or people, soldiers included who were not offended by the advert?
Do we really need another blowhard American having a go at videogames, or should we disregard this fool. Just because he's an American soldier some people think that affords him a higher opinion on this, well it doesn't - the only opinion that matters is your own - its an advert FFS!
If everyone had this apparant weight behind their opinion, and everyone voiced their opinion - then we'd get nothing else done. It's not as if EA will pay him any mind, they know their target audience, so what if some soldier got offended. Newsflash GI, MW3 was not made for you, go play Americas Army (on your own probably) if you don't like it. MW3 is developed for and marketted at gamers, not soldiers, it's not a simulation, it's a videogame. But that's the crux of the whole thing isn't it, gamers are too stoopid to know the difference, it takes a soldier to come along and say ''Hey guys, that's not a realistic depiction of war, in fact it makes light of it''. Boo-bloody-Hoo, why on earth should we care what 1 soldier thinks compared to the thousands of soldiers who are diehard COD fans.
Personally I am more offended by the military adverts, the ones proclaiming the life of a soldier is a big adventure full of gadgets and cool guns and bettering yourself. This 1 soldier does not speak for the military, and we should weigh his opinion accordingly (in other words disregard it as you would a random post on this forum).
i'll agree with you on your seconed point as for the first i don't mabye it has something to do with the draft that was going on around that point in time. In that time their litterly was a solder in everyone.buy teh haloz said:
.....What? How is.... What? That had literally nothing to do with anything I said. My only real problem with this advert is that I don't particularly like the actors. Actually, did you quote the wrong thing? Because I genuinely don't know what you're referring to. I never mentioned any kind of censorship or anything at all like that, although nice move on the snip so that it looks like I did.CapitalistPig said:
I have no problem with this advert, I know it's unimportant and irrelevant but that's because it's a dumb advert for a dumb game, not because it's fiction. All I'm saying is that people need to stop using "it's fictional and therefore doesn't matter" excuse because..... For fuck's sake, I've already said all this. Seriously, did you misquote?
And since you apparently think I'm a peadophile, let's follow that thread of thought: If someone drew a horrific, graphic cartoon about peadophiles raping kids (but with the peados being presented as the best of guys) do you really think that "it's just fiction" should defend them from all the hatred that they should have coming?
Yes but not because it's fiction. We should ignore it because, as I said above, it's dumb and it's not trying to make war seem glamorous, it's trying to make the game which happens to be set in war as glamorous. Fiction can and does matter, even if a lot of it doesn't, so saying "it's fiction and therefore doesn't matter" isn't an argument we can use anymore, especially if we want games to be accepted as art in any way.SirBryghtside said: