Ukraine

Thaluikhain

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For nuclear submarines, in recent years critical failures - to the point the whole vessel is lost or close to it - are very rare... except USSR/Russia. The USA lost a couple in the early Cold War. The USSR/Russia has lost over half a dozen, nearly all after 1980, plus a substantial number of major accidents in repairs or decommissioning.

Not sure about other classes of sub.
Ah, if we are just talking about nuclear subs (which makes sense in context), yes, I was also thinking of the diesel-electric types used by Indonesia, Argentina or China that've had some losses this century.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I think also (and I've already said) that Putin has this reputation as a political genius because he has, in some very high profile instances, made life very difficult for the USA. In today's short attention span, Twitter-dominated and superficial world, it looks brilliant.

But really, he's presided over years of Russian economic and human development stagnation, rampant corruption, demographic decline and decreasing global influence just so he can stay in power and a few billionaires buy themselves extra luxury yachts. In the bigger, deeper picture that I'm sure our governments are looking at, Putin's spent a whole decade driving his country into a ditch.
Now to put the above in drone form -
 
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CM156

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And the damaged Russian Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, has sunk. Apparently it was overwhelmed by stormy seas whilst under tow. So sad.

The crew had already been evacuated from the ship.
*Sad trombone noise*
I don't believe the Russian government's account of how this happened.
 

Trunkage

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*Sad trombone noise*
I don't believe the Russian government's account of how this happened.
Their media is a good at lying as their warship are at staying afloat

I remember you saying you took your avatar as the moment when Biden had the right stance over a war (Falklands). How's his current stance?
 

CM156

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Their media is a good at lying as their warship are at staying afloat

I remember you saying you took your avatar as the moment when Biden had the right stance over a war (Falklands). How's his current stance?
The situation is developing too much for me to feel like I can form a fully solid opinion.
I am glad that NATO is doing more than talk. I would like to see more hardware sent into Ukraine for them to fight with against Russia.
 
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Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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And the damaged Russian Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, has sunk. Apparently it was overwhelmed by stormy seas whilst under tow. So sad.

The crew had already been evacuated from the ship.
From what I've heard this is extremely significant. the Moskva was the main defense against air attacks for the other ships. Because if it's sinking other ships can't risk being near the shore( I think they have 21 ships there from what I've heard). This means Russia has lost its Naval advantage. This is huge.
 
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Satinavian

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That was always on the table in case Russia lost.

What might help prevent it would be a clear message that NATO would enter the war if Russia used nukes.
 

Agema

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From what I've heard this is extremely significant. the Moskva was the main defense against air attacks for the other ships. Because if it's sinking other ships can't risk being near the shore( I think they have 21 ships there from what I've heard). This means Russia has lost its Naval advantage. This is huge.
One might also suggest the ships are moving away from shore because the Ukrainians have just demonstrated that they can sink them. In extraordinarily dramatic fashion, as that was the flagship and likely largest / most powerful ship.
 

Kwak

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One might also suggest the ships are moving away from shore because the Ukrainians have just demonstrated that they can sink them. In extraordinarily dramatic fashion, as that was the flagship and likely largest / most powerful ship.
Which was likely responsible for the civilian infrastructure destruction?
 

Silvanus

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The Ukrainian security services have been intercepting calls since the start of the war, since a great deal of them aren't even encrypted. You may remember that an intercepted call not too long ago gave the location of a Russian general, who was subsequently precisely targeted and killed.

More recent calls have Russian soldiers describing how they're not receiving the extra pay they were promised, and how commanding officers steal parcels of money and booze that families send to their relatives in the forces.
 

SilentPony

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So reports coming out the Moskva may have been carrying nuclear warheads and a broken arrow incident may be declared. And something like 450+ of its 500 compliment of sailors may have died.
So that's probably not good for Russia.
 

Gergar12

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It's funny the ship was built in Ukraine like many large surface combatants of the USSR.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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So reports coming out the Moskva may have been carrying nuclear warheads and a broken arrow incident may be declared. And something like 450+ of its 500 compliment of sailors may have died.
So that's probably not good for Russia.
Why the fuck would they be carrying a nuclear bomb in this situation? When your not going to use it? on a ship that's a huge target for the enemy? How dumb is the Russian army?
 
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SilentPony

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Why the fuck would they be carrying a nuclear bomb in this situation? When your not going to use it? on a ship that's a huge target for the enemy? How dumb is the Russian army?
Well presumably Putin would deploy nukes if he thought his Government and power were threatened. This whole situation ends with Putin's death at the hands of a Russian General who is just sick of fighting in Ukraine. Putin knows this, which is why he fired over a thousand of his house staff, and has been living in a sealed bunker since the invasion. He's paranoid he's just going to be taken out.

After if it looks like Ukraine is going to win the war and fully drive Russia out and he's going to be deposed, he may just say fuck it, nuke Kiev, see if it gets people to surrender.
And again presumably it carrying nukes is why it desperately tried to leave port and return to Russia.