Uncharted 4's Nadine Ross and (Omitted) (Spoilers imminent! Beware!)

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

So, Anita Sarkeesian- Wait! WAIT! This isn't about her, I swear! She was recently brought up in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with her, and it prompted me to look her up just to post about how irrelevant she is now and how we should move on. Upon looking her up I found a GameSpot article about Uncharted 4 and how some focus testers were upset by a few things while playing.

So, anyone who's played Uncharted 4 must be familiar with Nadine, the woman that kicks Drakes ass and follows up by taking Drake and Sam on two on one.

First Fight
Second Fight
​

Yeah, apparently some focus testers didn't take to kindly to getting their asses kicked by a woman. Oh, but it doesn't end there! See, if you've beaten the game already then you'll know that Nathan and Elena go on to have a child together. A girl named Cassie Drake. Yeah, some focus testers didn't take to kindly to that either, for some reason.

Cassie, Elena, and Nathan​

[small]Nathan has a daughter?! Damn those SJWs!!!1!111![/small]​

[small]Cassie's got a bit of a potty mouth[/small]​

After reading the article I made the mistake of going into the comment section and I was a little disappointed by what I read. A lot of "SJWs are ruining gaming!" and what not.

I rather like Nadine. Not her character, because she barely has character, but her ability to kick ass. The first fight was brutally fun and the second one was hilarious. I'm also glad I didn't end up having to kill her. I'd much rather kill her as the main antagonist, not as the main antagonist's aid. Some comments pointed out that Nadine defeating Nathan, and then Nathan and Sam, was a power fantasy, pure and simple. Which is funny considering all of the things Nathan's done over the course of 4 games and the armies he's managed to lay waste to. And, as far as I'm concerned, Nadine kicking Nathan and Sam's asses felt right because she fought like a trained fighter and they fought like brawlers. And yeah, they telegraph a lot. Here's hoping that DLC gives me the chance to take her on again.

I'm cool with Cassie, too. She, like Elena, seems to have good taste in games and she's a well traveled kid with the heart of a Drake. She doesn't get much character development, obviously, but from what I've seen so far I'd be more than willing to play a game with her as the protagonist. One where she's older and carries a gun, of course.

1. What do you think of Nadine Ross and her two fight scenes?

2. Do you care that Nathan's kid is a girl and would you play a game with her as the protagonist?

Edit: Source http://www.gamespot.com/articles/uncharted-4-focus-tester-dismissed-after-sexist-ou/1100-6440081/

 

[Casual Shinji]

1. I didn't care for the fights, but that's because the game forces you into a stiff, scripted, QTE segment. You're not using the actual game mechanics you'd been using previously, you're dumped into a locked one-off. The Rafe Boss fight had the same problem. I like Nadine, simply because she's got that hot muscle look, but the fights themselves kind of suck.

2. Cassie I kind of hate, but just because she seems to have this super happy dream life. Fucking kid has her own private bathroom, lives in, like, the bahamas, and only needs to take ten steps outside her house to be standing in the surf. On yeah, and she's probably rich, too. I'm just jealous.

Anyway, if that's how a couple of focus testers reacted, maybe Naughty Dog needs to start screening them, so that they may avoid 5-year olds.

 

[Kingjackl]

The "oh not you too" reaction from the focus-tester suggests he legitimately was one of those sad babies who thinks the diversity push is ruining gaming. Maybe he posts on these forums?

There probably will be a sequel to Uncharted, and given the way they ended it it's actually quite likely that Drake's daughter could take over as a main character. Nothing wrong with that; there's a proven track record for young female characters in these survivalist action/adventure games doing well. Everybody liked Ellie, nu-Lara Croft seems to be doing well, you could even include Clementine under that banner. There's less of a track record of it working with descendants of main characters, since I guess people just wonder why they couldn't stick with the old ones. Who remembers Jack Marston? Exactly.

 

[Bilious Green_v1legacy]

I didn't like that first Nadine fight because it presented as if you could actually win, rather than being a scripted event, which it essentially was. If the result is inevitable and nothing you did could alter the outcome, save everyone some time and just make it a cutscene. I found it one of the most pointless and frustrating moments of the whole game.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

Can we please not put oil on the fire? Nadine was badass, actually logical, actually looked like she can kick the shit out of men. She was a good villain, Cassie... was there. So some child or troll tried to rile things up, don't let them.

I was just thinkin' that, not everything requires a deep meaning, hell, my OT response is hardly that long and is pretty much the same as yours.

Nadine's cool and she kicked ass because she knew how to fight. Taking on Nate and Sam was a little iffy at first, she didn't seem that good but I can buy it.
I like Cassie, we don't get to spend a lot of time with her but she's okay and it really shows how much of a family man Nate's become.
That's about it.
Actually, if I may be so bold, I'm surprised they just stopped at Nadine being a woman. Given this day and age, I'm surprised her being black didn't come up too.

Anyway.

As for playing a game with Cassie Drake, no thank you.
Because I hate women.
Hold your fire, I'm not being serious but I don't want another Uncharted game and if there is one, it doesn't look like it's comin' from Naughty Dog and lately when it comes to games, developers handin' over the reins hasn't been goin' so well, that's all.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

The "oh not you too" reaction from the focus-tester suggests he legitimately was one of those sad babies who thinks the diversity push is ruining gaming. Maybe he posts on these forums?

There probably will be a sequel to Uncharted, and given the way they ended it it's actually quite likely that Drake's daughter could take over as a main character. Nothing wrong with that; there's a proven track record for young female characters in these survivalist action/adventure games doing well. Everybody liked Ellie, nu-Lara Croft seems to be doing well, you could even include Clementine under that banner. There's less of a track record of it working with descendants of main characters, since I guess people just wonder why they couldn't stick with the old ones. Who remembers Jack Marston? Exactly.

Funny you mention Jack Marston. I remember him as the reason I can't stand beating Red Dead Redemption's story line. Not because he's replacing John, or his kid, or anything like that. It's his damned voice that irritates the hell out of me, and while I understand his angst, it, paired with his voice really puts me off. In essence, he's a bad character.
I mean I'd rather play as Zombie John Marston, which was weirdly awesome.

Donkey Kong had a solid run with his kids, and presumably grand-kids taking up his mantle.

Honestly it doesn't feel very often that a descendant takes the place of the original, but if the character is done well, it might be bitter, but it's not the end of the world.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

The "oh not you too" reaction from the focus-tester suggests he legitimately was one of those sad babies who thinks the diversity push is ruining gaming. Maybe he posts on these forums?

There probably will be a sequel to Uncharted, and given the way they ended it it's actually quite likely that Drake's daughter could take over as a main character. Nothing wrong with that; there's a proven track record for young female characters in these survivalist action/adventure games doing well. Everybody liked Ellie, nu-Lara Croft seems to be doing well, you could even include Clementine under that banner. There's less of a track record of it working with descendants of main characters, since I guess people just wonder why they couldn't stick with the old ones. Who remembers Jack Marston? Exactly.

Funny you mention Jack Marston. I remember him as the reason I can't stand beating Red Dead Redemption's story line. Not because he's replacing John, or his kid, or anything like that. It's his damned voice that irritates the hell out of me, and while I understand his angst, it, paired with his voice really puts me off. In essence, he's a bad character.
I mean I'd rather play as Zombie John Marston, which was weirdly awesome.

Its the only pitfall in RDR that I found that really bothered me. Jack could have been decent (voice acting aside) if it didn't feel like Rockstar left us holding the bag. They really needed to wrap up post-John with more than just a minor stranger mission. I'd have loved to have had a last section with Jack either choosing to walk a different path or continuing the cycle (or dying). But there needed to be solid storyline missions that at least tied it up more. Too much of a loose end.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

They don't try to avoid spoiled 5 year old boys, that's who they're trying to sell it to.

Hey, I take slight offense to that! I am not 5 years old!

I can sort of understand the dislike some of these guys have for Nadine. No one likes getting their ass kicked, and some would take even more offense if a woman was doing the kicking. The Cassie hate, I don't understand. I thought it was almost guaranteed that they'd have a daughter before seeing Cassie. Having a daughter is the default so that they can be kidnapped and eventually saved. Can't do that with a son, no siree.

Can we please not put oil on the fire? Nadine was badass, actually logical, actually looked like she can kick the shit out of men. She was a good villain, Cassie... was there. So some child or troll tried to rile things up, don't let them.

Hey! I didn't buy all of this oil to not see something go up in flames! And I wouldn't say she was a good villain. I'd say she was more like a henchman, really. I would love to see her as the main antagonist in the single plauyer DLC, though. I honestly can't stand the fact that she's still alive.

I didn't like that first Nadine fight because it presented as if you could actually win, rather than being a scripted event, which it essentially was. If the result is inevitable and nothing you did could alter the outcome, save everyone some time and just make it a cutscene. I found it one of the most pointless and frustrating moments of the whole game.

Was it really presented as if the player could win? I honestly expected Drake to get his ass handed to him the moment the fight started. I assumed I'd get more hits in, but otherwise the fight went on as expected.

1. I didn't care for the fights, but that's because the game forces you into a stiff, scripted, QTE segment. You're not using the actual game mechanics you'd been using previously, you're dumped into a locked one-off. The Rafe Boss fight had the same problem. I like Nadine, simply because she's got that hot muscle look, but the fights themselves kind of suck.

Really? As far as I remember, the fight against Nadine was just like the first fight in the game, except Nathan could barely touch her.

I like Cassie, we don't get to spend a lot of time with her but she's okay and it really shows how much of a family man Nate's become.

Yeah, walking through Nate and Elena's home, marveling at their beach front property, they own a boat, and they travel around the world. They've done well for themselves.

Actually, if I may be so bold, I'm surprised they just stopped at Nadine being a woman. Given this day and age, I'm surprised her being black didn't come up too.

What, you mean by the focus testers? It's probably because racism in gaming isn't as "controversial" as sexism.

As for playing a game with Cassie Drake, no thank you.
Because I hate women.
Hold your fire,.

Too late! God dammit, where's my lighter!?

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

Actually, if I may be so bold, I'm surprised they just stopped at Nadine being a woman. Given this day and age, I'm surprised her being black didn't come up too.

What, you mean by the focus testers? It's probably because racism in gaming isn't as "controversial" as sexism.

As for playing a game with Cassie Drake, no thank you.
Because I hate women.
Hold your fire,.

Too late! God dammit, where's my lighter!?

To the first, yes, maybe I should have disconnected that from the paragraph of my opinions, re-reading my post, I notice my own formatting confusion.
Anyway, yes, it was just a crack at the bigotry boat. We already hate her for being a woman, why not throw some racism in there too; have her be gay and we got the whole kit and caboodle.

To the second, you can borrow mine, it says "Fuck Communism" on it.
Try not to light your ass on fire.

It might be me but Nadine's arms seem extremely muscular and she has background that makes sense she's she'll be adept in CQC, plus Nate and his brother sent more of a brawlers then actually trained.

While I don't think she's "extremely" muscular, she's definitely cut; heck, Bruce Lee wasn't all that big a dude but you wouldn't want to mess with him.
[small]And he focused more on his core when he trained-[/small]
ANYWAY!
In the Nate and Sam vs Nadine fight, Nadine kinda evens the odds by knocking Drake outside and by the time he gets back in, the fight gets interrupted by Rafe.
Would the Drake brothers have won, would Nadine? I don't know, but I can believe either situation just fine.

By the way, I looked up that fight before I wrote this just to get my facts straight, the comments are filled with salty, salty people.
The argument I keep seeing is that Drake has killed plenty of military trained goons before so it seems inconsistent that Nadine Ross is kickin' his ass.
I'm not one-hundred percent certain, but I always thought those were just guns-for-hire who were workin' for the highest bidder. Navarro, Lazarvic, Marlowe, they're not commanding a SEAL team here, they got who they got, it always seemed like Drake is against an army of quantity not quality.
Am I right, am I wrong, somebody throw in here.

 

[Casual Shinji]

1. I didn't care for the fights, but that's because the game forces you into a stiff, scripted, QTE segment. You're not using the actual game mechanics you'd been using previously, you're dumped into a locked one-off. The Rafe Boss fight had the same problem. I like Nadine, simply because she's got that hot muscle look, but the fights themselves kind of suck.

Really? As far as I remember, the fight against Nadine was just like the first fight in the game, except Nathan could barely touch her.

Yeah, but I didn't like that fight either. It pulls an Uncharted 3, where it janks you out of the regular mechanics and you can't run or jump or do anything except awkwardly strafe around and throw a punch. I don't like getting restricted like that for no good reason. After all, it's not like they're in a boxing match or something.

I'll point to The Last of Us for how to do this right. There you also have a scenario where you're stuck with someone who's physically more powerful than you, where you can only use melee attacks, and if you take him head-on he'll instantly overpower you. The difference there being that you're using the same hide-'n-seek mechanics and strategy that you'd been using throughout the entire game. There's no restriction other than you're literally locked in a building and that guy has the key.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

I didn't have any issue with the fight sections being predestined to lose (well, it's not even losing, more like being temporarily pushed back in elaborate ways), Naughty Dog allowed a flexibility that still made it feel natural, not forced. I cannot understand how people can put so much pride into their gaming that something like this offends them. Nadine was a nice enough character, not given enough time to learn more of her though, i thought. Is this why we have the prevailance of grizzled white dude? Is this why diversity is such a sticking point for many? Fucking marketing and focus testers. I want to beat them with ten inch heels until they start seeing sense or their manly maker.

 

[Gone Rampant]

That playtester story reads to me like something I'd see on r/thathappened or on a Tumblr blog. Felt to me like Neil was just making shit up to try and sound cool (Especially since we only hear his side of the story, who's to say he didn't just exaggerate the playtester's irritation?). I'd only believe it if there was a recording or if the playtester came forward.

As for Nadine, I liked her somewhat, more because I'm a fan of Laura Bailey (Bless her heart, she does try with the South African accent). But I hated it with Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3, and I hate it here that both times you fight Nadine, the event is scripted in a "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" situation, and one where the mechanics are changed to facilitate that just pisses me off. At the very least, changing the cutscene of the first fight so Drake can win, but more guards come in when they hear the fighting and he's forced to run since he wasn't carrying a gun at the time (I can honestly see this as what the playtester was complaining about, which Neil interpreted as fantasy league sexism).

tldr, I miss Amy Henning.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

There's less of a track record of it working with descendants of main characters, since I guess people just wonder why they couldn't stick with the old ones. Who remembers Jack Marston? Exactly.

Me? As one of the several reasons I think it's a masterpiece, no less.

As for Nadine, I liked her somewhat, more because I'm a fan of Laura Bailey (Bless her heart, she does try with the South African accent).

Huh, I really like Bailey and I really like South African accents - but I'm not sure I ever want to hear Bailey try to nail one.

 

[Gone Rampant]

As for Nadine, I liked her somewhat, more because I'm a fan of Laura Bailey (Bless her heart, she does try with the South African accent).

Huh, I really like Bailey and I really like South African accents - but I'm not sure I ever want to hear Bailey try to nail one.

Yeah, I was trying to find a nice way to say "She tries, but it's pretty clear that Nadine is played by an American who's trying a South African accent."