Underage Sexual Assault Victim Faces Jail Time...For Tweeting the Names of Her Attackers (UPDATED)

Hirumakage

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viranimus said:
Hirumakage said:
Ok, so how is the burden of responsibility put on her? How are the attackers not at fault? I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say, but I keep seeing you say the same things. If I go to a party I expect to have fun and if I over indulge and end up passed out that's my fault. What's not my fault is that two jerks decide to have their way with my unconscious body. That is totally on them. If you were assaulted because you passed out, would you say it's all your fault? That the attackers were just doing the right thing because other people around them were having consensual sex? No, just no.
Again... your inferring your own meaning. Did I say at any time these kids were not at fault? No. These kids are being punished for their fault in the event.

Yes... If I passed out in a dark NYC alley... I would expect to be robbed, beaten, pissed on by local bums and even worse. Thats why I dont go into NYC alleys.

So let me make sure I understand you. We forgive a girl who made a mistake while under sober and stable mind by going to a party that would be known to have drink, drugs and sex before becoming intoxicated and absolve her own poor unaffected judgement, but we condemn the decisions of two teenage guys who also made a poor decision but likely did so while they too were under the influence of alcohol.

Do you understand where the problem is now?

So is there some sort of indication that A: these kids just happened upon her in this drunken state? B: they themselves were not also intoxicated? C: this whole thing didnt happen because she helped initiate the whole exchange but it quickly changed into something else as she blacked out. And as it didnt go down like she wanted she cries rape with little or no evidence and then gets pissy when she cried rape Sexual assault to an unsatisfactory conclusion, she in turn tries to take to the law of public opinion instead of respecting the legal agreement her guardians agreed to.

Remember a plea agreement is still an agreement. That means her guardians/parents had to sign off on this agreement or else there had been a trial. If they signed off on it, it means their case is not strong enough on its own merits to secure a conviction. They agreed to it to give her some sense of justice by punishing the boys, and not have to wade through a trial that would have likely seen the boys go free.
I'm not arguing against her speaking out being wrong. If the plea agreement was in place she broke the law. It sucks but it's the law. What I am trying to understand from you is why you think the assault was mostly her fault. The steps up to the assault are on her. Getting assaulted and having her pictures spread around like baseball cards is not.

I did not know the guys were also drunk, but to be drunk enough to assault someone and then take pictures is still very wrong. And know I don't know the exact circumstance leading up to it, but as the story progress we'll find out. I hope she's not being false about what happened, but for now I deal with the facts that I am given.

Your analogy of an ally seems a bit off. I don't go to party in an empty ally and pass out because it's a dangerous place. I would go partying at a club or a friend's house because it's much more safe. Just saying
 

Bat Vader

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balfore said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
balfore said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
balfore said:
Sexual assault in this case being the groping and pictures taken, from the news sources a few sights call them rapist but nowhere do they actually report on the rape, because it was groping and pictures taken. I would love is someone could find an article that explicitly points out there being any sex involved with this crime.

What I'm trying to say here is that sexual assault can be many things, if I get drunk and piss in a public park and a cop catches me I can be charged for indecent exposure making me a sex offender. I have found no news source that goes into detail other than pictures and groping.
Groping and pictures is enough. Nice to see how you quoted me btw, good to stand up for your conviction that sexual assault isn't a big deal ;D
Sexual assault is a big deal, but in this case the girl was out of line calling them out.
Not at all, they're scum that's not to be trusted.

They dont deserve to have their lives ruined for touching a girls boob and posting it on the internet, now if they actually physically raped her that's a different story.
Their lives will go on in a quality befitting the sort of people they are.

They deserve the punishment the court applies to them, not to have their lives ruined by some girl who thinks they deserve more of a punishment.
Empty bullshit, you don't even know the punishment the court will apply.

The idea of them touching her boob and being labeled as rapist by some is horrible. It was a dumb mistake and they deserved to remain anonymous.
The idea that you're defending sexual assault just because it isn't rape is pretty horrible.

And you have yet to explain how it was a 'mistake'. How does someone mistakenly do that? Hmm? I'm glad you're so courageously speaking up for sexual assault without a good argument.
The court has already applied a punishment she didn't think it was severe enough so she took the law into her own hands. That alone is illegal.
These boys confessed to first degree sexual abuse, not assault, that includes inappropriate touching of "intimate areas" under Kentucky Law.
These boys are not rapist and yet news outlets label them rapists that is completely unacceptable.
Kids do stupid shit, I don't see how some kids doing something stupid calls for them being labeled a rapist for the rest of their lives.
I have no sympathy for these two males. It is their own fault they are being labeled rapists. Perhaps next time they will think twice before doing something that could get them into trouble.
 

Hirumakage

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Blablahb said:
Hirumakage said:
I'm not arguing against her speaking out being wrong. If the plea agreement was in place she broke the law. It sucks but it's the law. What I am trying to understand from you is why you think the assault was mostly her fault. The steps up to the assault are on her. Getting assaulted and having her pictures spread around like baseball cards is not.
Can you vouch for that? For all we know she was making sexual remarks at her alledged 'attackers' before she passed out. For all we know they had sexual contact before or they were friends with benefits.

The rest of her behaviour, the lies about being traumatised and defaming them certainly seems to suggest her being someone ruthless enough to first suggest sex, pass out, and then file charges when she realises she's been taken up on her own offer.

I don't know how everybody else goes about the more exciting parts of interactions with the other gender, but there have been a few chicks that I did such things with, and they with me. Friends with benefits, but then a bit wilders. I'd be more than a little amazed if they suddenly pressed charges.
How do you know she's lying about being traumatized?
How do you know they were friends with benefits?
How do you know they had a history together?
Defaming them? If someone assaulted me, I'd say shit too. However, if it was a court order I would not tweet about it though.
If I made remarks about sex then passed out I wouldn't want you fucking my unconscious body.
If I had sex with you in the past and you came across my unconscious body, I wouldn't want you having sex without my permission. It's that simple. Oh and two guys doing it to someone? really?
 

renegade7

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Just because the two boys are trying to use it in their defense doesn't mean it will actually happen...criminals pull BS defenses like this out of their asses all the time. Just because the two jackasses are trying to get back at her with this absolutely does not mean she will actually be punished.
 

Lyri

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Raven said:
But, the victim should have waited for the courts to pass sentence before exposing them through social media. I can agree with the contempt of court charges, though I can't see it resulting in jail time in this case. Its also possible the courts would have decided to name and shame the boys anyway, but disrupting the justice system as the girl has done cannot be taken lightly. After all she is using that system to prosecute, it is not up to her to decide the punishment
The article says the victim did wait for the sentencing, part of their plea of guilt was anonymity which she broke the terms of.
So I really have no sympathy for her in that regard, she acted out against the terms of the courts and now she's having to pay for it.
It's as simple as that, what happened to her doesn't excuse her actions at all.
 

Xin Baixiang

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What the wondertwits did at the party was a horrible horrible thing. Agency and self-integrity are things that should never ever be violated regardless of gender/ethnicity/orientation/age.

That said, and with full heft behind it, you cannot violate laws because you are a survivor. Is her crime as bad as theirs? No. Not even close. It's not even in the same country as their crime. It isn't even in the same dimension as their crime. She did not deserve, earn, or ask for what happened to her.

But she still does not get a free pass because she is a survivor. The same way that a husband should not get a free pass because he killed his wife "in the heat of the moment" when he catches her cheating. Or a mother should not get a free pass for killing her children because the octopus in her head declared them unclean.

The punishment should be mitigated, as it frequently is in the other two examples, but there still must be a punishment. Otherwise we do not have laws, we have "guidelines".
 

Hirumakage

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Blablahb said:
Hirumakage said:
How do you know she's lying about being traumatized?
Because I've seen several actual sexual abuse victims up close. The trauma comes from the damage sense of integrity and security and someone getting that close by force.

This chick didn't even know what had happened untill months later and from what the stories read, there wasn't even anything that really happened. It was also a one time event.
Hirumakage said:
How do you know they were friends with benefits?
I don't know if they were. We also don't know if they weren't however, ruling out any assumptions about automatic guilt.
Hirumakage said:
Defaming them? If someone assaulted me, I'd say shit too. However, if it was a court order I would not tweet about it though.
Then you'd deserve to be thrown in jail for that because you're conciously harming people who don't deserve that. They're innocent untill proven guilty, and that aside, it doesn't appear like anything really happened here. The supposed attackers are more like the victims here with the outlook of going to prison and having their entire lives and careers lost to sex offender registration over nothing.
Hirumakage said:
If I made remarks about sex then passed out I wouldn't want you fucking my unconscious body.
You're changing the goalposts. It wasn't rape that happened, it was some line-crossing behaviour.

You seem to be reading what you want my post to say instead of what it says. Please, read it again. Generalising isn't going to bring us any further.
Yeah, if they did something to me and they have pictures to prove it, they're guilty. And if you read what I said I said if I was ordered by a court to be quite I would. If not, I would tell people what happened and warn other what kind of monsters they are. I would be angry and hurt. It's not wrong if they are guilty. The pictures they took of them doing the acts prove it. It's not lying it's stating facts

Ok, not rape you're right. Excuse me. If two guys assaulted me and took pictures they're still guilty of doing something that is horribly wrong.

Oh, and just because I found out something happened to me later is still traumatizing. Two guys violated her. Even if it was a onetime thing, it's still horrible. Her sense of security can be shattered because they violated her without consent. She was vulnerable and they took advantage of it. God know what else could have happened. And not only did they molest her they took pictures and passed them around. That can be traumatizing too.
 

Dr. Mongo

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As hard as it sounds, laws are not something that you can use at your own convenience. She broke the law when she put the names of her attackers on the internet.
The punishment she faces for that has nothing and absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she was assaulted by these fucktards.
 

Hirumakage

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Blablahb said:
Hirumakage said:
Yeah, if they did something to me and they have pictures to prove it, they're guilty.
Two guys violated her.
Maybe it'll work if I just repeat myself: What was it actually that they did?

You seem so convinced an actual sex crime took place in this case, but I doubt that. With the information from these media reports, we can not know that for certain.
Hirumakage said:
Oh, and just because I found out something happened to me later is still traumatizing.
Maybe a little shocking, but if she claims to be crying all through the night every night for months, you can be pretty sure she's lying. That's not even something that happens with actual sexual abuse victims. The triggers it leaves are very specific, something so specific that a touch at one point doesn't trigger, but one or two centimetres further does trigger.
They did something sexual. Be it touching or penetration. Something without her consent.

Maybe it really did bother her that much who knows eveyone reacts differently. Maybe she's crying because of the pictures and the act and the whole ordeal.
 

LetalisK

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Blablahb said:
Hirumakage said:
Yeah, if they did something to me and they have pictures to prove it, they're guilty.
Two guys violated her.
Maybe it'll work if I just repeat myself: What was it actually that they did?

You seem so convinced an actual sex crime took place in this case, but I doubt that. With the information from these media reports, we can not know that for certain.
Except for you. You know people. You've seen things. Despite everyone being unable to "know that for certain", you rise up and defy the limitations of mere mortals, you can know with such a certainty as to call her a liar, a drama queen, and to ascertain the nature of what may or may not have taken place. Unlike us, mere mortals that we are.

Thank you, Messiah.
 

Naeo

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Frankly, the girl did violate a court order, so the law is absolutely not on her side with this one. I think it's a shitty scenario--the boys should be facing more than just sexual assault charges, since I'd hope you could pin them with something from the whole bit about "taking and distributing photos of it" part of the story. But, it's standard practice to not reveal names of minors who are charged with something (I think until after they're convicted, but I'm not sure) for their own protection (which is a valid reason), and when it comes to rape--especially rape of minors--there's reason to believe someone might use that as an excuse to try and take it on themselves to punish the guys which could end up very, very ugly.

So the situation sucks, but she kinda DID violate a court order not to reveal their names, so there's no real question here about whether she's in the wrong in that regard.
 

Mycroft Holmes

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There's probably(as there always is) more than meets the eye to this. But if she violated a court ordered NDA then she should face the consequences for it. If her lawyers actually agreed to the NDA, then they are terrible at their jobs. Especially considering how obviously open and shut the case is, considering they took pictures like idiots.

Naeo said:
the boys should be facing more than just sexual assault charges, since I'd hope you could pin them with something from the whole bit about "taking and distributing photos of it" part of the story.
Not that I know whats actually in the pictures, but the girl is 17. So I'd assume they could have slapped them with some pretty heavy child pornography and distribution charges. Which they should have done, given the nature of the materials origin.
 

Dr. Crawver

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Raven said:
Though I generally fall in the "don't pick and choose when the law suits you" crowd, this is a pretty sticky situation.

I'm not defending their actions but if the boys were under the legal age to be tried as adults then they do also have rights to anonymity so that their "childhood mistakes" don't ruin their reputation for life...

But, the victim should have waited for the courts to pass sentence before exposing them through social media. I can agree with the contempt of court charges, though I can't see it resulting in jail time in this case. Its also possible the courts would have decided to name and shame the boys anyway, but disrupting the justice system as the girl has done cannot be taken lightly. After all she is using that system to prosecute, it is not up to her to decide the punishment.

I honestly think if she was also above the legal age, she should get a fine. In this case, she should receive a formal caution. Harsh as it sounds, the integrity of a legal system is more important than a single life... There is a reason countries go to civil war over the right to control them.
pretty much exactly how people should feel. This one is awkward, but there will be plenty of others where it will not, and we can't just say "oh, you're right, they deserve it, go ahead" before a sentence was even passed.

I hope she doesn't get the jail time, as it would be incredibly twisted, but the fine seems more fair. When you are using the system, don't then stick your middle finger at it and go against it. If you don't like the courts decision, you can appeal, otherwise accept the verdict...when the verdict actually happens.
 

Eppy (Bored)

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Jan 7, 2009
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This girl was a victim of extremely degrading sexual abuse. Not only did they rape her, they took pictures and shared them. She will be permanently scarred. Did she commit a crime? Sure, that's what the law says, but there's no way she should be convicted because she has a perfectly reasonable defense; she is an irreparably traumatized minor. I expect that any charges will be dismissed on those grounds. If they want to give her a warning that's fine as well. Any kind of serious punishment would be incredibly wrong considering the circumstances.

Those two did something horrible to her. Maybe they're legitimately sorrowful and remorseful, but the fact of the matter is that the only way to 'make their punishment fit the crime,' as it were, would involve hard time of a different sort. That would be just as wrong as what they did, and since the justice system has been quite lenient to them I think it's pretty fair that they deal with it. What they've done has ruined some poor girl's life; if this gives her a bit of release they owe it to their victim to deal with it.
 

SuperSuperSuperGuy

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She's assaulted sexually, then gets in more trouble than those who assaulted her for telling people who they were?! That's a bit screwed up, I must say.

It may be law, but it's not justice.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

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Jan 5, 2011
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Dastardly said:
CrazyCapnMorgan said:
It says she COULD face charges, and she COULD face jail time, and a whole lot of COULDS. Or it might be that the judge decides to be a bit lenient given the circumstances... though like she won't avoid punishment entirely.
This is very true. There are a lot of "coulds" in this scenario, but the variables given make for good discussion - and might make one more inclined to view, and define, what justice is in our society. It certainly could use more scrutiny, as the case and posts here attest to.

I sincerely doubt she's going to see a ton of jail time. I'm not even sure about a fine. This is a case of someone looking at what she did (contempt of court) and then looking up the maximum penalty for that particular charge, and then slapping them together in an article.
Sensationalist journalism at its finest, I suppose. Whatever doubts and questions any of us have will ultimately be answered at the appropriate time this sees a courtroom. Still, it's nice to see opinions posted, questions raised and meaningful discussions made - it gives all of us the more insight, and more wisdom hopefully, to the topic(s) at hand.