Unique video game nitpick I have: Can we actually have bosses who aren't suicidality overconfident they're going to kick my ass.

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

This is such a common trope in gaming storytelling that's overused and not really thought out that well a lot of the time.

Okay here's how most dialogue goes in boss fights.

The player character meets the boss, the boss talks about how much they're going to kick my ass and how much of a weakling I am, after the boss fight ends before the boss dies they scream in defiance on how could a weakling beat them and says how their death changes nothing blah blah blah and then dies. Lather, rinse, repeat for every boss afterwards besides for the occasional sympathetic villain who dies tragically or the boss who wants to fight a worthy opponent who appears once or twice.

I have a problem with this for two reasons.

1. The bosses start to bleed together and it makes them uninteresting characters no matter how good their designs are.

2. It's sometimes laughably stupid when the boss does this cliche at a certain point. How many bosses have I murdered before you? we are on the 7th or 8th game I'm a person well known of kicking the lord of hells ass every week.

At this point I just kind of want a boss who's unbelievably terrified of the player character and is desperately fighting for their life. Just fucking once.

Is anyone else tired of this cliche or have I been playing too much Mega Man X/Zero?

 

[Trunkage]

Or how they will slice you up in 10 different ways... because trying ro kill you isn't evil enough

 

[CriticalGaming]

Is anyone else tired of this cliche or have I been playing too much Mega Man X/Zero?

I think you've been playing too many anime games.

I find this trope is most common in Japanese games but i don't really see it much in other games. I can't think of a single boss that does this outside of an Japanese made game.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I think you've been playing too many anime games.

I find this trope is most common in Japanese games but i don't really see it much in other games. I can't think of a single boss that does this outside of an Japanese made game.

World of Warcraft, and God of war comes to mind as Western examples. In fact World of Warcraft maybe one of the worst examples of this.

 

[CriticalGaming]

World of Warcraft, and God of war comes to mind as Western examples. In fact World of Warcraft maybe one of the worst examples of this.

I have never paid a lick of attention to any WoW boss ever. And I certainly don't remember any GoW boss doing that, Kratos does that more than the bosses do lol.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I have never paid a lick of attention to any WoW boss ever. And I certainly don't remember any GoW boss doing that, Kratos does that more than the bosses do lol.

a lot of God of War bosses don't talk but when they do they basically are this trope. besides cursing my name thing because they are too cut up to talk.

 

[CaitSeith]

At this point I just kind of want a boss who's unbelievably terrified of the player character and is desperately fighting for their life. Just fucking once.

The bosses wouldn't be leaders of the game's bad guys if they didn't have a big ego. Besides, if they are terrified of the player and fighting for their life, chances are you are playing as the bad guy in a game where the enemies are less evil than you.

 

[happyninja42]

I have never paid a lick of attention to any WoW boss ever. And I certainly don't remember any GoW boss doing that, Kratos does that more than the bosses do lol.

in the recent game, the brothers who spend the entire game playing to catch a predator with your kid, mock and gloat over you the entire fight. I forget their names, but the sons of thor immediately come to mind. I really don't remember the previous GoW games at all, but I would be shocked to learn that Ares didn't gloat and mock you in the first game. Zeus in GoW 2/3 does the more mature, yet still kind of gloaty "You foolish child, how little you understand" thing that Emperor Palpatine did in Return....and also used lightning now that I think about it. Baldur did this too but....well he could actually justify it, what with the whole "I can't be injured" thing going on.

Honestly though this is just a common trope of all action genres really. It helps to justify the extreme levels of violence and death the "hero" is about to inflict on people, so that they don't feel like they are watching a psychopath kill a lot of people....like how Kratos was in the earlier games, which a lot of people hated...myself included. It's why they kill John Wick's dog, so that the fact that he piles up like 50 bodies is ok with the audience, and doesn't feel like overkill as they are sitting in the theaters.

Media, particularly action/violent media, spends a lot of story time, setting up the various justification triggers for the protagonist. Having the bad guy, at the climax of the story, act like an egomaniac asshole, drunk on his own self-importance, just helps reinforce it at the end for the viewer/player, so they are reinvigorated to be brutal.

So yeah, it's cliche, but it's hardly unique to anime inspired games. I think the Japanese might just be more into that level of hyperdrama for their stories, than we might be? Big, bombastic characters, with exaggerated emotional reactions. Maybe as a result of the cultural influence of their various forms of play and theater? And the exaggerated movements and caricatures? *shrugs*

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

The bosses wouldn't be leaders of the game's bad guys if they didn't have a big ego. Besides, if they are terrified of the player and fighting for their life, chances are you are playing as the bad guy in a game where the enemies are less evil than you.

They can still be evil and also be cowards. Like a Villain who wanted to bully and kill the weak but realizes he cross paths with the hero

 

[CaitSeith]

They can still be evil and also be cowards. Like a Villain who wanted to bully and kill the weak but realizes he cross paths with the hero

But at that point, what would motivate the Villain to fight? If it's a coward why not surrender and beg for mercy?

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

But at that point, what would motivate the Villain to fight? If it's a coward why not surrender and beg for mercy?

"If you fail me you will die." Is basic enough motivation for a cowardly villain. Die by the big bad hands or tried to kill the hero.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

To be fair to God of War: these are gods you're fighting, of course they're going to mock a mortal for his hubris. Every god in Greek mythology has a "canonical" How Dare You / Do You Even Know Who I Am moment.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

To be fair to God of War: these are gods you're fighting, of course they're going to mock a mortal for his hubris. Every god in Greek mythology has a "canonical" How Dare You / Do You Even Know Who I Am moment.

That's fair but still even in the God of War games it just gets ridiculous. One moment sticks out to me is where you're fighting Hermes and he's so confident he's going to kick kratos's ass. I will remind you Kratos has already taken out Aries, Poseidon and Hades but no Hermes is going to be the one to mop the floor with Kratos.

 

[sXeth]

I think you've been playing too many anime games.

I find this trope is most common in Japanese games but i don't really see it much in other games. I can't think of a single boss that does this outside of an Japanese made game.

Eh literally the first thing that came to mind when I read it was Oblivion/Skyrim.

Champin of Cyrodil, Undaunted warlord, Arena Champion, Fighter Guiodlmaster, Archmage, bedecked in glowing enchanted daedric armour and wielding literal sword of the gods.

Scruffy Bandit Chief : You'll be begging to give us your coin once we're done.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

That's fair but still even in the God of War games it just gets ridiculous. One moment sticks out to me is where you're fighting Hermes and he's so confident he's going to kick kratos's ass. I will remind you Kratos has already taken out Aries, Poseidon and Hades but no Hermes is going to be the one to mop the floor with Kratos.

But he's not really trying to fight him is he? As far as I recall most of the fight is him running ahead, trolling him. Which is something Hermes would absolutely do. He's canonically the fastest god in Olympus and only ends up fighting Kratos by being forced into a direct confrontation.

Even if it weren't within his character, pride is so central to Greek mythology, and the gods do most of what they do out of being offended, that I can't really fault a series based on Greek mythology for sticking to a trope it might as well have invented. It's better than the alternative of every boss in the universe being "mad with power". Or just plain mad. That's how you get the likes of Professor Pyg pretending like he can take on the freaking Batman.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The final boss of Doom (2016) wasn't enthusiastic about fighting you- in fact, towards the end of the fight, it's basically flailing around trying desperately to fend you off.

To quote Civvie 11: "The Spider Mastermind is not the boss in this game. You don't have to survive it; it has to survive you. You're the fucking boss in this game."

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Well, bad writing is bad writing and video games have a ton of it, more than any other medium. How many times do the bad guys in other mediums do the whole "We're not so different, you and I"?

 

[meiam]

World of Warcraft, and God of war comes to mind as Western examples. In fact World of Warcraft maybe one of the worst examples of this.

Most Wow boss, at high difficulty, do massacre the party dozen if not hundreds of time before they die once, so I think their confidence is warranted.

 

[BrawlMan]

This is such a common trope in gaming storytelling that's overused and not really thought out that well a lot of the time.

Okay here's how most dialogue goes in boss fights.

The player character meets the boss, the boss talks about how much they're going to kick my ass and how much of a weakling I am, after the boss fight ends before the boss dies they scream in defiance on how could a weakling beat them and says how their death changes nothing blah blah blah and then dies. Lather, rinse, repeat for every boss afterwards besides for the occasional sympathetic villain who dies tragically or the boss who wants to fight a worthy opponent who appears once or twice.

I have a problem with this for two reasons.

1. The bosses start to bleed together and it makes them uninteresting characters no matter how good their designs are.

2. It's sometimes laughably stupid when the boss does this cliche at a certain point. How many bosses have I murdered before you? we are on the 7th or 8th game I'm a person well known of kicking the lord of hells ass every week.

At this point I just kind of want a boss who's unbelievably terrified of the player character and is desperately fighting for their life. Just fucking once.

Is anyone else tired of this cliche or have I been playing too much Mega Man X/Zero?

That's pretty much the formula for a lot of action games: Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Ninja Gaiden, etc. I can go on all day babe. It highly works in Bayo and DMC's favor and is part of the gameplay, characters, and theme. Nothing is more cool than taunting an arrogant demon or angel and laying the smack down on them in gameplay and cut-scene. Especially when you pull off a no damage run. Even Transformers Devastation gets on the action, but makes sense. It's fucking Transformers.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

Megaman is 4 foot and can die by being touched like 5 times. It doesn't matter how many bosses he killed, nobody is going to be afraid of him.