Unpopular opinion: The Cowboy Bebop dub is overrated.

CastletonSnob

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I FINALLY started Cowboy Bebop the other day, because I heard it was amazing, and the English dub is the best ever. And, I'm going to be honest, I don't think the dub is that good. I'm sure it was considered really good back when it first aired, but it's not that good by today's standards.

Don't get me wrong, I like the voice acting from the main cast of Cowboy Bebop just fine. It’s the voice acting from the minor characters I’m iffy on. Like, in the second episode where Abdul Hakim enters a bar, and the bartender has a VERY stereotypical Asian accent.

I think the dub for Baccano is the best dub I've ever seen (heard?). I've only watched two episodes so far, but EVERY single performance in the dub is spectacular. It's like watching an old gangster movie.
 

Piscian

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Hmph Id never heard that. Ive heard the dub and its fine, comparatively speaking. I got the Blu-ray box set last and I recall flipping back and forth, settling on subs. Its rare, but some dubs are brilliant, some are even intentional. The exel saga and puni puni poemy dubs are intentionally parody.

Id have to go compare the two again, but

Spike is too idk nasally. He comes off more petulant child than smarmy haunted gangster.

Jet is fine, but the jp dialog gives a better feel of him being a tired samurai.

Faye is solid, I prefer the jp but her character doesnt feel different.

Ed - absolutely not. The English does not give that sense of toddler raised by wolves sound that the jp does.

Its funny. Now that you mention it that sounds a whole lot like the netflix version. fuck'me did
they only watch the dubbed version???
 

Elvis Starburst

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Unpopular opinion: Cowboy Bebop is very average
I didn't get the hype either. A solid high 7 or low 8 to me, but otherwise, it's not the 10/10 I feel people think it was. It's likely a lot of the opinion it's incredible is cause it was people's first (or second/third) anime and they're a little bit blinded by their first experience. Death Note was my first and I used to think it was the shit. As I'm now older and look back on it, like Cowboy Bebop, it's a solid 7/10 at best
 
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Gordon_4

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I think a fair amount of Bepop’s popularity coasts on its fucking AMAZING score. The show is not bad by any measure, a solid 7 moving into 8 territory especially compared to what has come since. But you put that very solid work to a once in a lifetime score and it kind of drowns out the imperfections.


I struggle to think of another piece of music that sets a tone and almost tells its own story as well as Tank!
 

Casual Shinji

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I said it before and I'll say it again; Dub Spike tries to sound cool, Japanese Spike just is cool.

Spike is supposed to look and sound unassuming (until he isn't), and the Japanese dub gives him an appropriate lazy, sleepy voice. Steve Blum couldn't sound lazy or unassuming if his life depended on it.
 

CastletonSnob

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I watched anime dubbed by ADV Films and Funimation when I was younger. Could that be why I think the dub for Cowboy Bebop is overrated?
 

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The English dub is awesome by my metric. Still holds up great today, despite being spotty for a second or two. Especially before, during, and afterward. You should have saved this for the hot takes thread, but does not matter at this point. The Japanese side does a great job, but it's just not the same. Even the creator of Cowboy Bebop prefers the English dub. That is all.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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I literally just finished rewatching cowboy bebop the other day after having not watched it for about 15 years.

The first time I watched it I watched the english dub. This time I watched the sub. Not sure if it's the difference in voice acting, if I came into it with different expectations, or just that I've changed a lot as a person from when I was in high school to now being in my 30s, but I liked the show a lot more on my rewatch than when I originally saw it.

I originally thought it was just pretty good. Rewatching it actually had an emotional impact on me making me absolutely love it. After watching episode 24 I literally just sat there in the dark for a while mildly depressed.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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I haven't watched Cowboy Bebop myself but is the reason we look back on it and see it as just above average because it was always above average or is it because things it did that were great for it's time are more standard now? I ask because I've had experiences like that with games. I didn't play Chrono Trigger as a kid and when I played it many years later on my DS I thought it was quite good but was not blown away by it, but I'm pretty sure that's because the game was a trend setter so I had played games influenced by it already.
 

09philj

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I prefer the sub mostly on the basis of Jet's voice. As for the show itself, it's very good. It manages to strike an excellent balance between creating a world that's full of texture and feels real and lived in while also finding space for very stylised action.
 
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Casual Shinji

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I haven't watched Cowboy Bebop myself but is the reason we look back on it and see it as just above average because it was always above average or is it because things it did that were great for it's time are more standard now? I ask because I've had experiences like that with games. I didn't play Chrono Trigger as a kid and when I played it many years later on my DS I thought it was quite good but was not blown away by it, but I'm pretty sure that's because the game was a trend setter so I had played games influenced by it already.
There's a couple of reasons, the most prominent one being that it's highly praised so eventually it will be deemed overrated - honestly the highest praise any piece of fiction can be bestowed.
 

Kyrian007

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I haven't watched Cowboy Bebop myself but is the reason we look back on it and see it as just above average because it was always above average or is it because things it did that were great for it's time are more standard now? I ask because I've had experiences like that with games. I didn't play Chrono Trigger as a kid and when I played it many years later on my DS I thought it was quite good but was not blown away by it, but I'm pretty sure that's because the game was a trend setter so I had played games influenced by it already.
Both. It is above average... but also back in its day good dubs were fairly rare, making something like Cowboy Bebop stand out even more than just its obvious quality. And the "real fans always go sub!" weeb crowd mostly didn't notice dubs getting better... because they never stopped reading subtitles and pretending they could understand inflection and nuance in a language they couldn't speak.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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Both. It is above average... but also back in its day good dubs were fairly rare, making something like Cowboy Bebop stand out even more than just its obvious quality. And the "real fans always go sub!" weeb crowd mostly didn't notice dubs getting better... because they never stopped reading subtitles and pretending they could understand inflection and nuance in a language they couldn't speak.
Hhm. Dub vs sub huh. I feel like there's no one size fits all answer to that debate. Small or seemingly small changes can have big ramifications for how something is perceived. One common example is how times when there's a quiet moment on screen tend to get filled in with extra, mundane dialogue which can change the scene from a quiet one of drinking in the moment into one of idle or pedantic chatter.

I feel sometimes a dub is better or worse depending on the case. An example of where I think it's good is in Spirited Away. There's a scene where Chihiro is standing outside the bath house and taking it in, in the dub they add in her saying "It's a bathhouse" since a lot of English speakers will likely not know what it is just by looking at it. That's good, makes sense and it doesn't change much. But then there's also the big change at the end of the movie by adding in her talking with her dad about their move and saying, "I think I can handle it", in the original it's heavily implied that not only did she and her family forget the events of the movie, but that they were essentially reset to how they were before they entered the gate. In my humble opinion, this is a travesty of a story decision as the main focus of the story was Chihiro growing up and becoming strong and capable. Deleting all that growth undermines almost the entire movie.

Another example of dub vs sub is My Dress Up Darling, there's a moment after the character Marin realizes she's into Gojo where Gojo is talking with his grandpa about the details of making her cosplay outfit. In the sub, Marin is actually getting flustered seeing how serious Gojo looks when talking about this with his grandpa, she's into the calm intensity he has when focussed on something, but in the dub she says something akin to "What are you doing Marin!? You can't be going gaga for Gojo!" and tries to mentally protest against her feelings by talking about how it's lame talking with your grandparent about something like this. This is, in my opinion, a poor choice for localization. While Marin is a "Gal", a sub culture known for being trendy and glam, a consistent aspect of her character is not caring for societal pressures and sensibilities. The sub follows through on the unique aspect of the character while the dub portrays her as being a much more stereotypically trendy girl that cares about what others think is "cool" or "lame".

So it's just kinda this big ball of "it depends". And this isn't something special to translations either, we've seen how things change between adaptions all the time too.
 

Casual Shinji

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And the "real fans always go sub!" weeb crowd mostly didn't notice dubs getting better... because they never stopped reading subtitles and pretending they could understand inflection and nuance in a language they couldn't speak.
Depends what you mean by 'naunce' and 'inflection'. I highly doubt I could catch the difference in regional accents in any foreign language I don't understand, but out of all the foreign language movies and shows that I've seen in my years I never found myself not catching the emotional nuance of the situation. Unless the acting was just straight-up bad, like in The Wind Rises where the main character is performed by someone who is very clearly not a professional voice actor.

But then there's also the big change at the end of the movie by adding in her talking with her dad about their move and saying, "I think I can handle it", in the original it's heavily implied that not only did she and her family forget the events of the movie, but that they were essentially reset to how they were before they entered the gate. In my humble opinion, this is a travesty of a story decision as the main focus of the story was Chihiro growing up and becoming strong and capable. Deleting all that growth undermines almost the entire movie.
Is that what was being implied, because while I have heard about this being a thing I never got that from the (Japanese language) ending. Chihiro looking back toward the tunnel, while a solemn melody plays, heavily suggests her looking back on what she's been through and the people she's met (namely Haku) and whether she'll actually ever see them again. This then gets punctuated by the glint in her hair band, implying she'll always have a connection to that world and to him. I don't recall a moment at the end that implies she just forgot about everything, just that she keeps it to herself as her parents have zero recollection of anything that happened. After all, when they exit the tunnel it's her parents that are totally flabbergasted by the car being covered with leaves and dusty inside, not being aware that they've been gone for days, while Chihiro looks back at the tunnel in a way that one who just simply walked through a tunnel wouldn't look back at. Her not saying anything adds a twinge of melancholy.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Depends what you mean by 'naunce' and 'inflection'. I highly doubt I could catch the difference in regional accents in any foreign language I don't understand, but out of all the foreign language movies and shows that I've seen in my years I never found myself not catching the emotional nuance of the situation. Unless the acting was just straight-up bad, like in The Wind Rises where the main character is performed by someone who is very clearly not a professional voice actor.

Is that what was being implied, because while I have heard about this being a thing I never got that from the (Japanese language) ending. Chihiro looking back toward the tunnel, while a solemn melody plays, heavily suggests her looking back on what she's been through and the people she's met (namely Haku) and whether she'll actually ever see them again. This then gets punctuated by the glint in her hair band, implying she'll always have a connection to that world and to him. I don't recall a moment at the end that implies she just forgot about everything, just that she keeps it to herself as her parents have zero recollection of anything that happened. After all, when they exit the tunnel it's her parents that are totally flabbergasted by the car being covered with leaves and dusty inside, not being aware that they've been gone for days, while Chihiro looks back at the tunnel in a way that one who just simply walked through a tunnel wouldn't look back at. Her not saying anything adds a twinge of melancholy.
Hhm... My memory says that it was the intent but it could be that it's left ambiguous but most took it to mean she forgot. Either way, it would still back my point that the dub would be better because it would make it more clear that she remembered, if that was the intent.
 

Casual Shinji

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Hhm... My memory says that it was the intent but it could be that it's left ambiguous but most took it to mean she forgot. Either way, it would still back my point that the dub would be better because it would make it more clear that she remembered, if that was the intent.
I like the ambiguity. Similarly there's the scene where we see Chihiro and Haku let go of eachothers hands with Haku assuring her that they'll see eachother again one day, with the shot lingering on Haku's hand as it slowly draws out of frame. Almost implying Haku knows they won't ever meet again.

The movie starts with Chihiro being this scared little girl, and we see her gradually getting stronger and more confident, but near the end it becomes about more than that. It becomes about this relationship she has with Haku and how she then has to say goodbye to it. There's a sadness to the ending with the musical score ushering the movie to the end credits that I think the line in the English dub undercuts.
 

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The dub I give an A. At its worse, the dub an A-. You can do far worse than that, and I am thankful Bebop never succumbed to that problem. One of the pioneers of having a great English dub.