Update: Fan "Fixes" Mass Effect 3 Ending With A 539-Page Rewrite

CloudAtlas

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Blachman201 said:
CloudAtlas said:
Another site reporting on the this fanfic:

http://badassdigest.com/2014/01/20/super-fan-believes-hes-better-than-the-entire-mass-effect-3-writing-staff/

Not quite as positive as some other articles out there.
Hoo, boy. More "gaming journalist" whining from "Badass Digest" about how "GAEMR ENTITALMANT RANZ AMUCK!!1!"

What is it with with the attitudes of guys like that? The argument from this and similar articles is basically:

"When you, as a consumer, buys something, you have a right to get what you pay for and complain if you don't get what you want. Unless, of course, some third party - like ME(!) for instance - determines that what you've paid for is Art, in which case: Shut up, you dirty, ungrateful, stupid, self-entitled pleb! Why? Because: Fuck you! That's why!"

Look, I really, really don't care about the ending anymore, what has happened has happened, I accepted that long ago. But that argument and the kind of pompous, self-righteous attitude that spawns it still makes my blood boil.

Especially because I fully expect to one day read something along the lines of "Well, Halo 7 sure had a weird and anti-climatic ending, but at least it was no Mass Effect 3, amirite guize?!" And it will be written by one of these hacks.

You know, the tone matters too. This guy chose to preface his work with pretty much "BioWare's ideas sucked, mine are much better". That is 'pompous, self-righteous attitude' right there, it's arrogance, hybris and disrespect.

He could have also written something along those lines in his intro:

"I love the Mass Effect universe and am deeply grateful to BioWare for creating it. I know many people loved ME3, and I wanted to love it too, but I couldn't. There were some things in the story that I thought weren't done well "objectively", some that just didn't match my personal preferences, and some that fall in the grey area in between. There was some squandered potential. That's what motivated me to write this stuff (...)"

And then you sorta lay out your vision, your goals, what Mass Effect was to you, what it meant to you, what you understand as the core themes, the core motifs, the core message of the games. Then you identify the problems you saw, be it mechanical stuff like plotholes or stuff that you feel conflicts/waters down/doesn't help these core themes, and provide suggestions as to how you think it could have done better, with explaining why you are changing what you are changing, what you intend to achieve with that, how you think it would benefit the overall narrative, and never making changes without a reason.

What you're writing will still be fan fiction, and you still alter the artistic vision of the creators of the work to some degree, but you're doing it from a place of love and respect, and that can already make all the difference.
 

CloudAtlas

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the hidden eagle said:
Do you know how many fanfics I've read where someone basically said"No this plot is stupid,I'm going to do something different"?Because that's what the guy who did the rewrite had in mind,the problem is he pretty much did do a better job than ME3's team did because atleast he made scenarios where the player got the conclusions he or she would like.
Oh I do know. But this guy didn't rewrite the whole plot, he mostly altered a lot of minor stuff and added a lot of unnecessary detail on top. So you're thinking that this guys fanfic is so much better than the original? Aren't you a guy who prides himself with his superior knowledge of storytelling? But do you know about the importance of restraint, for example, too?
 

Saviordd1

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If this man isn't the new lead writer on ME4 instead of Mac "I'm a doofus" Walters I will cry.
 

CloudAtlas

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the hidden eagle said:
I don't believe I've ever gave the impression of somehow having superior knowledge of storytelling since there are tons of people who are better than me in that area.And yes I do know the importance of restraint which is why I tend to make scenes grounded in the stories I write.
Good for you if you know the value of restraint. But why do you like this guy's script so much more when he abandons all restraint? He adds so much pointless stuff, like, more than 100 pages of epilogue alone.

On a more general note, if I hear how quite a few people praise this script, if I remember the complaints about the ME3 ending, the lavish praise for ME3: Citadel, about the story of Dragon Age II, and a few related incidents, I'm worried. I'm worried that BioWare will learn the wrong lessons and draw the wrong conclusions. That they believe their audience doesn't want somewhat different stories, somewhat deeper stories, but prefer generic indulgent stories, stories that make the player feel super powerful and influental and able to turn everything right in the end, stories with little meaning, stories that don't explore deep themes because they believe the audience doesn't get them, stories full of fanservice and pointless detail that doesn't benefit the narrative. I'm worried that they'll just play it safe now, just paying attention that their stories don't have too many plotholes and follow all the 'rules' on a mechanical level, instead of taking some risk with more original, deeper narratives. Don't get me wrong, if they pay attention to the the former, that's great, but I'm afraid it might happen at the expense of the latter.

I guess we'll find out sooner or later. We don't know anything about Mass Effect 4, so fingers crossed, but we do already know a little bit about Dragon Age 3. And, honestly, I'm not very optimistic that for example the main antagonist will have a rationale behind his actions that is substantially more than "just because", because, well, everyone loved Dragon Age:Origins, where it was just like that, and hated Mass Effect, where it wasn't, right? But BioWare may surprise me yet, and boy would I be happy to be wrong here.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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Wow, this sounds like a really cool guy. I didn't expect that (yes, I'm pretty cynical about these fan "obsession projects" unfortunately) but he comes off really well.
 

irishda

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Saviordd1 said:
If this man isn't the new lead writer on ME4 instead of Mac "I'm a doofus" Walters I will cry.
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't get such gems as:
 

Silly Hats

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I legitimately don't understand why people failed to accept that the Catalyst was just a rogue AI with it's own flawed morality. There's nothing wrong with this, it's also one of the most universal Science Fiction plot ideas ever. Even in the original ending it said that it was an 'Intelligence' that turned on it's creators, then people felt the need to needlessly read between the lines. It's simple and you resolve the issue, that shouldn't be a problem.

The ending is in Cannon and doesn't change anything about the story. It's just that the Reapers are tools for the Catalyst's twisted plan. Hell, even in the first game Vigil (an VI) shows up in the last hour and explains everything about the Reapers and Protheans. I'm surprised that there wasn't a "Betrayal" there.

I am glad that I waited to play ME3 after the backlash.
 

CloudAtlas

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the hidden eagle said:
.Also there is nothing wrong with playing it safe sometimes because if your audience likes a certain thing then why would'nt you give them what they want?
But is that really what they want? Mass Effect has always invited the player to ponder about difficult moral questions that touch upon very deep themes. The meaning of life, sentience, free will, or freedom, do the ends always justify the means, that sort of stuff - you can't really go much deeper. You could just make each and every decision straight from your gut, sure, but it was there nonetheless, in all three games. And the ending was full of that stuff - if you expected something different, something simpler, where these questions are at most background dressing (and many people did express such a preference), I can understand if you were disappointed, but I wouldn't have wanted any other way. Not in hindsight anyway; while actually being there I would've been content with just blowing the Reapers to kingdom come as well (and in the end I always did).

And aren't BioWare games in general all about choice, about a particular kind of choice, and wouldn't these choices be rather shallow if there was never anything deeper behind it? I mean, that stuff is there in the Dragon Age universe as well, it's not just Mass Effect. Perhaps not as much, not as deep, and implemented a bit more bluntly, but it's there as well. So does the majority BioWare's audience not actually want that, is that just baggage for them? Yes, I really don't know, but at least I hope not, as that would be equal to wishing for shallower games, and that's about the last thing I want from the gaming industry.

I'd rather prefer somebody play it safe and succeed than try something different and not succeed.
Well, to each his own I guess. I'd rather prefer devs to aim higher even if they stumble a bit along the way.
 

Loethlin

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Oooh, 539 pages worth of script format fanfiction! This is great!
Or not, because most of it is actually expanded/added romances and epilogues. Not handled well most of the time.
I'd rather stick to Mass Effect kink meme, people over there are much better at this, tbh.

Admirable effort, really, but the guy needs to work on his writing skills. And attitude, because the whole thing, but especially Introduction and James romance sections, smells of arrogance. I mean honestly, THIS is what you write in an introduction to something you hope will get you noticed by game developers?
 

Infernai

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CloudAtlas said:
the hidden eagle said:
I don't believe I've ever gave the impression of somehow having superior knowledge of storytelling since there are tons of people who are better than me in that area.And yes I do know the importance of restraint which is why I tend to make scenes grounded in the stories I write.
Good for you if you know the value of restraint. But why do you like this guy's script so much more when he abandons all restraint? He adds so much pointless stuff, like, more than 100 pages of epilogue alone.

On a more general note, if I hear how quite a few people praise this script, if I remember the complaints about the ME3 ending, the lavish praise for ME3: Citadel, about the story of Dragon Age II, and a few related incidents, I'm worried. I'm worried that BioWare will learn the wrong lessons and draw the wrong conclusions. That they believe their audience doesn't want somewhat different stories, somewhat deeper stories, but prefer generic indulgent stories, stories that make the player feel super powerful and influental and able to turn everything right in the end, stories with little meaning, stories that don't explore deep themes because they believe the audience doesn't get them, stories full of fanservice and pointless detail that doesn't benefit the narrative. I'm worried that they'll just play it safe now, just paying attention that their stories don't have too many plotholes and follow all the 'rules' on a mechanical level, instead of taking some risk with more original, deeper narratives. Don't get me wrong, if they pay attention to the the former, that's great, but I'm afraid it might happen at the expense of the latter.

I guess we'll find out sooner or later. We don't know anything about Mass Effect 4, so fingers crossed, but we do already know a little bit about Dragon Age 3. And, honestly, I'm not very optimistic that for example the main antagonist will have a rationale behind his actions that is substantially more than "just because", because, well, everyone loved Dragon Age:Origins, where it was just like that, and hated Mass Effect, where it wasn't, right? But BioWare may surprise me yet, and boy would I be happy to be wrong here.
Well. My issue with Biowares newer titles isn't that they are dealing with more complicated subject matters or deeper stories...it's just that they aren't doing it properly.

Let's take dragon age 2 for instance. Yes, i understood it was meant to be a more personal and down to earth story but...by the end of it i just felt as if i had not accomplished anything. More to the point, it had the problem of happening at the same time as a much more interesting story. Which, when coupled with the repetative environments just left me feeling bored and with a sudden desire to burn Kirkwall down so I could go see the rest of Thedas then be stuck staring at the yellow walls.

But, in Biowares defense, that one they were working with some serious time constraints so...they get a partial pass on it.

Mass Effect 3's ending's problem was, aside from it being a Deus Ex Machina in it's original state, just didn't feel like the right way to end a trilogy of games. If it had come at the end of the original Mass Effect or if this game had been the first game in the series, I think it would have been better received. Now, it's been cleared up a bit with the extra DLC's and all but the fact remains that, as the end of an entire series it just felt...weak and out of place.

Biowares present problem isn't them tackling deeper themes. IN-fact, i agree with you in the respect they should continue to try to do so. The thing is, they need guidance in HOW to tackle these themes better because, as they've shown with their last two outings, they aren't quite able to do it properly. Guess what I'm saying is they need someone who's more used to writing stories like that to come aboard to help them if they try to do stuff like this again.

I'll leave this here for now, because this Topic's already got enough going on and you have enough people badgering you at the moment here to boot.
 

Saviordd1

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irishda said:
Saviordd1 said:
If this man isn't the new lead writer on ME4 instead of Mac "I'm a doofus" Walters I will cry.
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't get such gems as:
As opposed to the great and wonderful romance we got in ME3...?

Hell I don't even know why Garrus was a romance option in the first place.
 

CloudAtlas

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Infernai said:
Well. My issue with Biowares newer titles isn't that they are dealing with more complicated subject matters or deeper stories...it's just that they aren't doing it properly.

(...)

Biowares present problem isn't them tackling deeper themes. IN-fact, i agree with you in the respect they should continue to try to do so. The thing is, they need guidance in HOW to tackle these themes better because, as they've shown with their last two outings, they aren't quite able to do it properly. Guess what I'm saying is they need someone who's more used to writing stories like that to come aboard to help them if they try to do stuff like this again.
Yes, we do agree here. While I certainly view ME3 in a more positive light than you do, I didn't intend to suggest that BioWare are extremely skillful when it comes to tackling deep themes. I mean, for example the main plot of ME2 was a total mess. In fact, the thought of the Mass Effect story told with the same degree of skill as is at display in, say, Bioshock Infinite, or in the best movies out there, will send me weeping.

Let's take dragon age 2 for instance. Yes, i understood it was meant to be a more personal and down to earth story but...by the end of it i just felt as if i had not accomplished anything. More to the point, it had the problem of happening at the same time as a much more interesting story. Which, when coupled with the repetative environments just left me feeling bored and with a sudden desire to burn Kirkwall down so I could go see the rest of Thedas then be stuck staring at the yellow walls.
I didn't even finish Dragon Age 2, so yea, I agree it had big problems, and they better learn their lessons from that. I'm just worried, as I said, that they're drawing the wrong conclusions. Because if they intend to make me fight generic faceless demons again who just want to destroy the world or something, and that's all there is to them, and put all that in a rather generic setting and tell it in a rather generic way, just as it was true for DA:O which everyone seemed to have loved regardless (or because of it?), I won't be buying DA:I.
 

CloudAtlas

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irishda said:
Saviordd1 said:
If this man isn't the new lead writer on ME4 instead of Mac "I'm a doofus" Walters I will cry.
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't get such gems as:
You made my day. And here I thought BioWare's actual romances were already a bit on the cheesy/awkward side...

Saviordd1 said:
As opposed to the great and wonderful romance we got in ME3...?

Hell I don't even know why Garrus was a romance option in the first place.
Not everyone throwing him/herself at the player character regardless of the player lack of effort? Clearly evidence for bad storytelling!
 

JoshuaMadoc

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To anyone who thinks is is excessive: I'm making entire lorebooks so my remake of a webcomic will "make more sense".

You do *not* know what excessive is.
 

mjc0961

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"The most unforgivable parts of Mass Effect 3," he explains, "and, sadly, they're the easiest to point out are: the Rachni being alive even if you killed them in Mass Effect 1, Anderson not being Councilor if you picked him in ME1, and handing, or not handing, over the Collector Base to Cerberus in Mass Effect 2." Obviously, though, those weren't his only issues with the game.
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131538-Update-Fan-Fixes-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-With-A-539-Page-Rewrite#klw1AS931aDebbLd.99
Those were indeed complete bullshit. ME3 had a lot of problems and not all of them were about the ending. These days people like to say "it was a good game, people just bitched about the ending too much", but there was a lot more wrong with the game than just the ending.

Although one thing...

Surprisingly, this is the first time he's attempted to tackle this kind of project. "I've never done anything like this before," he said. "I've had multiple 'projects' in my life. I'm always trying to improve myself, test my metal, and show people what I can do.
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131538-Update-Fan-Fixes-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-With-A-539-Page-Rewrite#klw1AS931aDebbLd.99
Test his metal? Why, is it not to manufacturer spec? Is the kind of metal it is questionable? And after he gets done testing his metal, will he then test is his mettle? :p

smudboy said:
It's a giant pile of crap.

http://thesecondslice.blogspot.ca/2014/01/analysis-of-me3v.html
TBH I kind of figured that out when I got to the part of the article where he was testing his metal.