Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself

[natster43]

All I learned from this is that Fish is still an ass, and the Beer guy is a right ****. So all seems usual in the world still.

 

[Lieju]

"The thing with us "tosspots" "hipsters" is that we're not beholden to media leeches like you, and you're right. we're VERY successful. And we're not going anywhere.

Which he then follows with cancelling his project.

You know what they say about being successfull and how that's the best revenge? Do that, Fish, instead of being a jerk to people.

 

[hazydawn]

There he goes, as if to prove Beer's point. ^^

 

[Riobux]

Well... I was just seeing if you considered yourself nihilistic or not. That you took insult to it, hey, that proves you're not. So, cool.

Anyway, suicide is worse because it is directly preventable, basically. Depression is really simple to spot and manage, and its a matter of awareness, really. If more people who need help seek help... there'd be less suicide.

It is a selfish act. That's the thing. It's an individual act that only harms others; the person committing suicide gains nothing, everyone around them loses out. And they could so easily find help! That's the thing - suicide is so easily stopped! That it isn't is an awful tragedy, really.

I assumed it was an insult considering your comment was, pretty much, "stop being a nihilist downer, cheer the fuck up and learn empathy". However, I am not a nihilist still.

The first part about suicide being directly and simply preventable I've touched on before by saying that a lot of deaths are. Heart disease and strokes are rather easily preventable if you're willing to put some work into it. Car accidents are usually pretty easy to prevent since most of them boil down to "lack of care". Although, depression, less so. For someone who claimed before that you've had depression, I'm surprised you'd claim it's easy to spot and manage. Especially among men, depression is seen in a severely negative light to the point where it's usually deeply hidden. It's why for men there is a statistically significantly greater chance of succeeding at suicide than females, because they tend to go for sure-fires like hanging, gun-shot wounds and jumping in front of trains. Even if you get diagnosed, managing is far from simplistic. So you either go through therapy where you need to meet a therapist you like and trust and then you take a good few years of CBT to get cured of it, or you take pills that don't solve the core problem and give you a collection of nasty side effects. It's not hopeless, but it's a very difficult challenge to fix mental illnesses. It's even tricky to manage it.

About the suicide being a selfish act though, I'm sorry but I disagree very strongly. I think the mentality that an individual's life is not his/her own, but rather he/she must exist with an experience they do not enjoy for the sake of others to be selfish to the core. Those who kill themselves get something out of dying, and it's usually the belief in what they think the afterlife will provide. Even if you're an atheist who believes there is nothing after death, at the very least it's the peace of absence. Which if you're someone who is going to kill themselves, it's a very attractive prospect since you likely have absolutely nothing really going for you (I really do mean nothing) and everything in your life is a negative. We're talking about living in a society you've grown to loathe, surrounded by a species you despise, as you go to your poorly paid tedious job that has no future prospects. We're talking about having no real friends to speak of and a poor relationship if one at all. Those who submit themselves to the act are rarely those who haven't put much thought into it. Others may lose out, but my view is this loss isn't any more tragic than the same guy getting hit by a bus by accident.

Although, I have to wonder this: If you say it's so easily preventable and easy to notice, assuming I'm wrong, then why does no one talk to them about it? If the individual in question does get asked about it and then deny it, then why is it still a tragedy that the person decided that he wants to take his/her own life, the most sacred possession he/she has, and crush it between his/her fingers?

Edit: I just would like to say that I'm sorry these posts seem lengthy, almost needlessly so. It's not on purpose.

 

[hexFrank202]

Pchh, he'll be back.

What I mean--Escapist 'low content' policy--in that sentence, is:

This guy is clearly someone who has a conflicting desire to be popular and talked about, and to be frikkin' alone. So I don't think he'll be gone for long.

 

[OManoghue]

He's such a whiny *****, like Fex was good, I loved it. But if he's going to be such a little baby in the face of trolls I'm glad he's gone

 

[Upbeat Zombie]

I haven't really been following this guy. But it seems like a lot of the hate he gets he brings to himself for being a dick, and not being able to handle the backlash of being one.

 

[Fat Hippo]

Wow, let's make an article about a guy who's clearly already been attacked too fucking much to deal with it in a reasonable manner any more, and then attack him some more. Cause that always helps.

Honestly, I'm not surprised that celebrities, even if this guy is only an "internet celebrity" punch the occasional journalist. I'd snap eventually too. And again, here we see page after page of the most brutal judgment, because judging another person from behind the safe anonymity of a screen is such an easy thing to do. I haven't seen Mr Fish's twitter page, but maybe there's a REASON he snapped like this, and receiving even more abuse from just about every person on the internet is hardly gonna help him. Fuck, I'm on the 9th or so page of this thread, so it's unlikely many people are gonna read this, but have some fucking compassion when a person is getting hassled in this manner on a daily basis. What he did wasn't smart, but that doesn't mean you have to be snarky to hell and back about it.

 

[MCerberus]

Phil Fish is Phil Fish crazy
Just be glad it's him not you
If you had Phil Fish's troubles
You might be Phil Fish crazy too
You'll show your big shiny game
You buy expensive patches
But you'd be the only man on earth
That couldn't enjoy Phil Fish

Alright... I couldn't make the last line rhyme, but I am not Colton

 

[Trotgar]

I really do think Fish overreacted quite a bit ? he could've responded calmly to Beer without coming across as incredibly irritating.

The same goes for Marcus Beer though. I watched the particular part of the podcast and he was far from civilized or sensible in the way he presented his opinion. At least I think that people in a similar position should refrain from calling people "wankers", "tosspots" or "fucking arseholes" publically.

 

[Zeldias]

I liked Fez, Beer was an asshole and being an asshole is what makes his on-air personality (which is a thing I've never understood the attraction of), Fish is a ************ who should never have been on shit like Twitter or at least learned to just not respond to people on it. I get that he wanted to live life like a regular guy but shit man, folks have been firing shots at him for a minute and going at all the shit he did to do it; better to just actively avoid all that perniciousness, for the sake of his own emotional health and not throwing fuel into the flames.

Sucks for him, but I'm glad there isn't a Fez 2 being made; don't sequelize shit like that. Just make something else. And never again be that sucker that says "kill yourself" on the internet, whether he meant it threateningly or, as some folks have presumed, a manner of bringing; that shit is just classless.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Well... I was just seeing if you considered yourself nihilistic or not. That you took insult to it, hey, that proves you're not. So, cool.

Anyway, suicide is worse because it is directly preventable, basically. Depression is really simple to spot and manage, and its a matter of awareness, really. If more people who need help seek help... there'd be less suicide.

It is a selfish act. That's the thing. It's an individual act that only harms others; the person committing suicide gains nothing, everyone around them loses out. And they could so easily find help! That's the thing - suicide is so easily stopped! That it isn't is an awful tragedy, really.

I assumed it was an insult considering your comment was, pretty much, "stop being a nihilist downer, cheer the fuck up and learn empathy". However, I am not a nihilist still.

The first part about suicide being directly and simply preventable I've touched on before by saying that a lot of deaths are. Heart disease and strokes are rather easily preventable if you're willing to put some work into it. Car accidents are usually pretty easy to prevent since most of them boil down to "lack of care". Although, depression, less so. For someone who claimed before that you've had depression, I'm surprised you'd claim it's easy to spot and manage. Especially among men, depression is seen in a severely negative light to the point where it's usually deeply hidden. It's why for men there is a statistically significantly greater chance of succeeding at suicide than females, because they tend to go for sure-fires like hanging, gun-shot wounds and jumping in front of trains. Even if you get diagnosed, managing is far from simplistic. So you either go through therapy where you need to meet a therapist you like and trust and then you take a good few years of CBT to get cured of it, or you take pills that don't solve the core problem and give you a collection of nasty side effects. It's not hopeless, but it's a very difficult challenge to fix mental illnesses. It's even tricky to manage it.

Well I meant to say it is easy to spot it and manage it... it is less easy to act on those managements. I mean I've been seeing psychologists nonstop for the past 5 years, taking the same anti-depressant medication... it is a long, arduous process. But the first step is noticing and getting yourself in - and that bit is only as hard as you believe it to be. That's what I meant to say.

I want to say, I'm really sorry I've dragged this out. I'm not so much upset or offended by your views... I'm more fascinated. I guess I've taught myself to think this way because it's what's kept my neck out of a noose; I believe that suicide is a selfish act because that helps me to not do it. It's what my parents told me. I really can't leave them alone if I can help it, y'know?

As for Phil Fish though... you say that nothing of value would be lost if he killed himself. This is where I kind of assumed you lacked empathy - there's a strain in there of "I don't mind if he kills himself, because I don't care about him." And my response, well, he's human - someone, somewhere cares about him. His life gives value to someone. Hell, he's a creative - I know I loved FEZ along with quite a few other people... is that not a value?

It's the idea that "nothing of value is lost [to me]" that kind of made me consider you might be a bit on the nihilistic side, lacking a bit of compassion, or the ability to put value on people's lives beyond what they can offer (or have offered) to you. That's why I leapt at you; you've proven this is merely a difference of opinion, though, not something more insidious as I had incorrectly assumed.

 

[bdcjacko]

Lol, so he tells someone to kill themselves (I know it is a future me quote but of everyone gets that) and cancels his game. But he is not canceling his game because of "the boorish fuck." Nioce. Phil Fish is amazing.

 

[Atmos Duality]

There must not be much of worth to report on if this manchild's tantrum is newsworthy.
He's even gone and removed himself from the equation.

 

[Strain42]

This basically seems to be how Phil Fish works

Phil Fish: "anybody still buying nintendo hardware is either socially underdeveloped or emotionally stunted. or both." (an actual quote from him)

Internet: Stop being a total asshole for no raisin! (since apparently quoting Futurama makes anything okay according to this thread)

Phil Fish: WHAT!? I'm not an asshole! Fuck all ya'll! Eat my dick on a sandwich with a side of steak fries and a kosher pickle and then engage in one of your murder suicude pacts, nerds! (not an actual quote from him)

I'm going to assume that Phil got a LOT of backlash over that statement, and then probably attributes that to his "daily abuse" but it's something he brought on himself. I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of the personal attacks that the man gets could have been avoided if he just hadn't decided to go "I'm going to say something that will probably upset people now."

If he hadn't been such a prick, the worst he would've been known for is being that guy who made that fairly decent indie game. Like any indie developer he would've gotten the hipster or elitist name thrown at him a fair amount, but I'd wager that's still better than...y'know...douche...fucker...prick, and so on.

Beer is an asshole too, no doubt about that. So it's hard to root for anyone in this fight. But in my eyes this is a fight between some guy I've never even heard of vs. a developer that is already pretty known for starting fights and stirring up controversy.

 

[TheDoctor455]

I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?

Indeed. Especially in Fish's case, who gets abuse more or less constantly. Doesn't matter who you are, deal with that for a year or two straight and it wears you down. At this point his patience for insults is pretty much gone, so yeah. Totally understandable to see him react this way.

Plus, some of the others say he had some kind of depression going on.

So let's see...

Depression + Constant Abuse for a couple of years + Twatter...

hmm... yeah... I don't wonder that he finally blew it. I'm surprised it took this long.

 

[level27smartass]

I'm I the only one who finds Fish's comment kind of awesome god forbid some one who gets shit tossed in their face say something hurtful.

 

[RA92]

Why do people hate Jonathan Blow again?

Because he made those stupid stars in Braid, ruining a perfectly good game.

Being serious though, he says a fair amount of stuff, some of it stupid, some of it not. I tend to think the stuff he says is more on the stupid side, and a fair number of people agree. Phil Fish is another shining example of this, though he's a LOT more toxic than Blow's ever been, and consequently gets a lot more flack for it. Telling people to "choke on my cock" when you get criticized tends to make you a big fat target.

I just went back to check the articles on Blow on the Escapist... and all I saw were him stating dissatisfaction with the the general direction mainstream gaming is going, criticism of console corporate culture, some mildly controversial stuff about pricing on different platforms, more criticism on the evils of social gaming, one controversial comment about story-based games being shit... honestly, I don't find him saying much stupid shit. Hell, one article snarkily remarks at Blow's dismissal of the entirety of gaming, even the quotes themselves were from a misguided interviewer, not Blow himself.

I have heard a few of his technical panels on game development, and he gives intelligent advice.

 

[Dorian Cornelius Jasper]

One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON instead of some nebulous, unseen developer who only shows his face to say something factual about whatever they're working on, hype it up a little, then disappear back to the office.

Thing is, normal people have to deal with the consequences of their words and actions, without the shield of "PR blandspeak" to protect them. We really do. It's why we try not to be terrible to other people, we'll usually get flack for it, at the very least.

It's entirely possible to be a normal person without being a constant douchebag to enough people that it becomes your entire reputation. It's also entirely possible to be a normal person and take it on the chin when your Futurama reference gets misinterpreted.

So yes, Phil Fish is a normal person. Who also happens to be a thin-skinned, arrogant, scheming blowhard. It wasn't long ago that when Fez was in an indie games contest, he tried to get one of his competitors disqualified for landing a publishing deal and ceasing to be "indie," when at the same time he was hammering out a similar deal for Fez--he's not just a jerk, he's a venomous snake.

Over the course of years of making an ass of himself in public, he made his bed, decided to lie in it, and then subsequently threw his bed out the window and lit his bedroom on fire when he realized it was too hard.

Surely he is the champion of gaming development reform we all desperately needed.

 

[RaikuFA]

Why do people hate Jonathan Blow again?

Because he made those stupid stars in Braid, ruining a perfectly good game.

Being serious though, he says a fair amount of stuff, some of it stupid, some of it not. I tend to think the stuff he says is more on the stupid side, and a fair number of people agree. Phil Fish is another shining example of this, though he's a LOT more toxic than Blow's ever been, and consequently gets a lot more flack for it. Telling people to "choke on my cock" when you get criticized tends to make you a big fat target.

I just went back to check the articles on Blow on the Escapist... and all I saw were him stating dissatisfaction with the the general direction mainstream gaming is going, criticism of console corporate culture, some mildly controversial stuff about pricing on different platforms, more criticism on the evils of social gaming, one controversial comment about story-based games being shit... honestly, I don't find him saying much stupid shit. Hell, one article snarkily remarks at Blow's dismissal of the entirety of gaming, even the quotes themselves were from a misguided interviewer, not Blow himself.

I have heard a few of his technical panels on game development, and he gives intelligent advice.

I believe it was how he was presented in IG:TM. How he was upset people didn't "get" the message in Braid.