Update Game of Thrones Ep2 Spoilers - Told Ya Snow

Silence

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To support the post above me in one point: I thought Roose would kill Ramsay. Because that would have made a lot of sense.

Instead it's boring old wank.

Other than that, ep2 was a lot better than the first.
 

Nurb

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How could Roose not see that coming? His kid is a psycho which he knew about since forever who is desperate to keep his status, and he was lecturing him on being a mad dog so he obviously wasn't blinded by love.

But I suppose we needed more betrayal because he shanked Rob, so the only sensible thing now is that Ramsey gets fucked by Walder Frey, who is betrayed himself yet again.
 

Orga777

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Nurb said:
How could Roose not see that coming? His kid is a psycho which he knew about since forever who is desperate to keep his status, and he was lecturing him on being a mad dog so he obviously wasn't blinded by love.

But I suppose we needed more betrayal because he shanked Rob, so the only sensible thing now is that Ramsey gets fucked by Walder Frey, who is betrayed himself yet again.
Yeah, really... Doesn't everyone realize by now not to mess with Walder Frey? It would be fitting if Ramsay is killed by Frey. Because, again, it would be too good for him to die in any dignified way. he needs a lame death like Doran and Roose got. Maybe even lamer. Maybe something like falling down the damn stairs or the Zombie Mountain smashing his head into a wall while he is pissing. Either one will do.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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the silence said:
To support the post above me in one point: I thought Roose would kill Ramsay. Because that would have made a lot of sense.

Instead it's boring old wank.
Sure, because a character that's interesting to watch has killed a boring character who's only purpose was to betray the Starks and to be a father of a psychopath. And you thought he'd live longer than Ramsey?


I really don't get people on the internet these days. Everyone is so eager to be a hater and to look for flaws in everything. Especially if it's popular. Oh that really gets people going. Popularity must be hated. GoT is still a good show. The fact that most of you stuck around for 6 seasons pretty much proves it. People don't do that when they get bored. It's so easy to lose interest in a lousy show. Maybe GoT is not as good as the books, but that means nothing since it's still leagues ahead of most current shows.
 

Terminal Blue

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Honestly, while I still kind of detest the way Dorne has been haphazardly thrown in and the general portrayal of everyone and everything in it, the sand snakes going full stabby is something I can totally see happening in the books as well. While they're a lot less openly sociopathic in the books, they're routinely implied to be a bunch of very, very dangerous people.

Ramsey.. well.. actually I don't mind Ramsey, I generally find Iwan Rheon hella fun to watch (most of the time). I actually really liked the change of having him raised by Roose Bolton, and it's enabled his character to have a bit more substance rather than being the old "child concieved of rape will inevitably be pure evil because reasons" trope. If anything disappoints me, it's that they didn't give Roose as much development as his book counterpart, although I enjoyed watching Michael McElhatton in the role.

And hey, now we have Euron Greyjoy. Team "absolutely fucking horrible people who are fun to watch because they're kind of enjoying themselves" got a bit bigger.

No, the biggest thing that actually annoys me.. giving Melissandre a crisis of faith.

One of the ballsiest things about the books, I think, is the fact that Melissandre, a religious zealot who burns people alive as a sacrifice to a cruel and uncompromising god, is ultimately a hero, in fact she is in many ways the ultimate hero by the standards of heroic mythology within the universe itself works, because there is absolutely nothing she wouldn't sacrifice for the cause of good. She's an ancient, incredibly powerful being who has apparently devoted her entire life to this metaphysical war of good versus evil. She knows better than any character in the setting what is at stake if she fails, she is also (going by her POV chapters) aware that she can make mistakes or misinterpret her visions of the future.

At this point, it doesn't matter if R'hllor actually exists or if he sends Melissandre messages, or if she's just using some kind of magic to see the future, she's still seen and done enough at this point to be absolutely certain of herself either way. Giving her a little emotional breakdown so that Davos, of all people, can comfort her and reassure her with the knowledge that she doesn't need the Lord of Light to be awesome as if that's some kind of atonement that she needed just strikes me as not only really out of character, but also kind of cops on one of the more interesting things about Westeros as a setting, which is that there's very good reason to think that at least some of the religious mythology floating around is actually, 100% true.

That aside, and other than the odd stinky line of dialogue, it's been pretty fun so far. Even Dorne has been.. better, this season than last season (bad pussy!) So yeah, looking forward to see where it goes.
 

Buizel91

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evilthecat said:
Honestly, while I still kind of detest the way Dorne has been haphazardly thrown in and the general portrayal of everyone and everything in it, the sand snakes going full stabby is something I can totally see happening in the books as well. While they're a lot less openly sociopathic in the books, they're routinely implied to be a bunch of very, very dangerous people.

Ramsey.. well.. actually I don't mind Ramsey, I generally find Iwan Rheon hella fun to watch (most of the time). I actually really liked the change of having him raised by Roose Bolton, and it's enabled his character to have a bit more substance rather than being the old "child concieved of rape will inevitably be pure evil because reasons" trope. If anything disappoints me, it's that they didn't give Roose as much development as his book counterpart, although I enjoyed watching Michael McElhatton in the role.

And hey, now we have Euron Greyjoy. Team "absolutely fucking horrible people who are fun to watch because they're kind of enjoying themselves" got a bit bigger.

No, the biggest thing that actually annoys me.. giving Melissandre a crisis of faith.

One of the ballsiest things about the books, I think, is the fact that Melissandre, a religious zealot who burns people alive as a sacrifice to a cruel and uncompromising god, is ultimately a hero, in fact she is in many ways the ultimate hero by the standards of heroic mythology within the universe itself works, because there is absolutely nothing she wouldn't sacrifice for the cause of good. She's an ancient, incredibly powerful being who has apparently devoted her entire life to this metaphysical war of good versus evil. She knows better than any character in the setting what is at stake if she fails, she is also (going by her POV chapters) aware that she can make mistakes or misinterpret her visions of the future.

At this point, it doesn't matter if R'hllor actually exists or if he sends Melissandre messages, or if she's just using some kind of magic to see the future, she's still seen and done enough at this point to be absolutely certain of herself either way. Giving her a little emotional breakdown so that Davos, of all people, can comfort her and reassure her with the knowledge that she doesn't need the Lord of Light to be awesome as if that's some kind of atonement that she needed just strikes me as not only really out of character, but also kind of cops on one of the more interesting things about Westeros as a setting, which is that there's very good reason to think that at least some of the religious mythology floating around is actually, 100% true.

That aside, and other than the odd stinky line of dialogue, it's been pretty fun so far. Even Dorne has been.. better, this season than last season (bad pussy!) So yeah, looking forward to see where it goes.
I kinda liked Mellisandra the past 2 episodes, for once i can sympathize with her, we have seen her being this confident, powerfull woman since season 2, it's good to see a bit of humanity every now and again and this i think was perfect. it's clear by now she is going to be a badass once again when she finds out Jon is alive.

Is it out of character? Really? a chracter who has harped on about "the vision in the flames" all to see the 2 people she saw fighting in this war die? She even said she saw Stannis on the throne after the battle of Blackwater. Obviously she is going to doubt herself, anyone would in that situation.

Thanks to these 2 new eps she has actually became a new favourite of mine, easily in my top 3 (where she was only in the top 10 last season)
 

RedDeadFred

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Roose has always seemed way too cunning to not be able to sniff out dissension and kill it quickly. He knows what Ramsay is, and yet he somehow allowed his psychotic bastard to gather support out from under him and then kill him as soon as another child was born. I really hope the books don't do it this way, because the show's already putting too much focus on Ramsay. The strength of the books was always that there weren't too many straight up evil characters. They're all varying degrees of grey. Ramsay and the show's portrayal of Joffrey really don't meet this standard.

The Greyjoy stuff seems to be a lot better on screen than it was in the books. This was by far the most plodding material book 4 gave us and was almost always a chore for me to read through. I do hope we get Victarion though as he was what made the plotline in the book tolerable.

The resurrection scene was pretty predictable. You know it's the last scene of the episode so something big is going to happen and you know they have to do the fake out for the sake of drama, so you know that as soon as everyone has left, he's going to wake up. It was a good scene, but it lost a lot of its potential weight by being both predictable (just about everyone buys the Jon Targaryen theory now) and cliche. I hope the books don't make it simply as him getting brought back by Melissandre. The books touched on the fact that a warg could have their mind escape death by fleeing into another being. I'm hoping that in the books, Jon fled into Ghost and returned to his body after Melissandre made it habitable again. They could still do this in the show, but I don't think it would work very well since it hasn't touched on the Stark children all being wargs (with Bran being the most powerful) nearly as much as the books.

The King's Landing stuff was all very good. The conversation between Cersei and her son was quite touching. I really hope the prohesy doesn't come true because Tommen really comes across as a good guy. He's introspective enough to recognize his flaws, but he also has the wisdom to show restraint. Sure he lacks confidence, but I'd rather him sit on the throne than Danny at this point.

Tyrion and the dragons was a fun scene. Glad they didn't pull a Quentin.

Sansa and Theon's scene was also quite touching. I wonder if Theon gets back in time for the moot. This plotline intrigues me quite a bit because the Greyjoys have a lot of catching up to do in regards to where the other plotlines are. I'm wondering if they'll cut aspects of it entirely or if they're simply going to ignore the amount of time it takes to
essentially sale to the other side of the world to get to the battle of Slaver's Bay

Arya's scenes have been pretty dull. Though, to be fair, I think the show has actually done a better job of making her story interesting than the books did. Her killing Trant last season was a lot more interesting than killing a deserting Night's Watchman. The scenes of her in the books were far too spread out and I ultimately lost a lot of interest in her story. The show is doing a bit better of a job, but I can't help but feel like we're just treading water until she's allowed to do other stuff.

Bran's scene was pretty interesting too. Seems that we'll be getting what everyone has theorized in that he'll see plenty of flashbacks of Ned's life, potentially culminating in the Tower of Joy where we find out the truth behind Jon's parentage.

Overall, I like this episode quite a bit more than the first one, but that's pretty much par for the course with this show. I do think this season is shaping up to be better than the last one.

As a side not: I think the Faegon theories are all but confirmed at this point. If he was going to have a truly meaningful impact as another Targaryen in the books, they would have introduced him by now on the show.
 

Politrukk

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I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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At the very least with Ramsay offing Roose that's in character and does seem like something Ramsay would do, especially since Roose was increasingly making it clear that Ramsay's position was in jeopardy. And like with all of Ramsay's decisions he acts on the spur of the moment and doesn't think about the actual consequences. He panicked so now he's secured his downfall because no one in the North likes Ramsay and they only need a Stark to get behind.

As for the Wall, it was hilarious for Thorne to see just how stupid his idea was because all he accomplished was one day of being in charge, got a couple men killed, and then got his ass thrown in a cell (also, bonus points for Wun Wun clubbing that guy against the wall and making the mutineers crap themselves and Olly being treated like a gnat by Tormund).

All in all, the season is off to a good start (Dorne notwithstanding, even when it's off screen) and hopefully Ramsay doesn't stick around too much longer because he ran his course long ago.
 

Terminal Blue

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Buizel91 said:
I kinda liked Mellisandra the past 2 episodes, for once i can sympathize with her, we have seen her being this confident, powerfull woman since season 2, it's good to see a bit of humanity every now and again and this i think was perfect. it's clear by now she is going to be a badass once again when she finds out Jon is alive.
Yeah, I think if I try to block out my book knowledge it makes a lot more sense. I do occasionally wonder if I'm becoming one of those people who can't divorce the two from each other, which at this point is very silly because they are very, very different.

But yeah, in the books Melisandre is a lot more overtly powerful. She doesn't just predict a few things, she predicts many things with perfect accuracy right down to tiny details, including things she couldn't possibly have guessed or heard about. During one of her POV chapters she describes seeing Bran and the three eyed raven, although she doesn't know who they are. Basically, she knows when she's actually seeing prophecy, but she also knows she doesn't always interpret prophecy correctly and often the things she sees are vague and confusing. She is very blatantly wrong about Stannis, for example, and will presumably realize it too late just as she has in the show.

She's also incredibly old.. like, probably inhumanly old. This was somewhat apparent from the books before the big reveal in the show due to little details like her having difficulty remembering any details of her own life. She isn't even certain on her original name.

But yeah, the more I think about it the more I actually think the show has generally been more subtle on the subject of magic and prophecy, so I can see your point. It still bugged me a little.
 

Remus

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Aiddon said:
All in all, the season is off to a good start (Dorne notwithstanding, even when it's off screen) and hopefully Ramsay doesn't stick around too much longer because he ran his course long ago.
I hope he decides to invade the north just to see Wun Wun step on him. The Boltons have no idea that there's an army of wildlings between them and castle black so it'll be another epic battle with a predictable end if they turn their attention north.
 

K12

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Politrukk said:
I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.
It would be an immensely cruel thing to do to bring back to life one of the most liked characters only to say "ha just kidding".

I have the opposite worry that Jon Snow coming back to live will mean that his "death" has relatively little impact on the overall story with him basically continuing along the path that he was taking before he got pincushioned.

I was very smug watching this episode. Two of my major predicions were that: Melisandre will bring back Jon Snow (although most people thought that) and become much more likable and one of the Boltons will kill the other one (I didn't think that it would happen quite so unceremoniously though) both happened in the same episode.
 

Politrukk

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K12 said:
Politrukk said:
I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.
It would be an immensely cruel thing to do to bring back to life one of the most liked characters only to say "ha just kidding".

I have the opposite worry that Jon Snow coming back to live will mean that his "death" has relatively little impact on the overall story with him basically continuing along the path that he was taking before he got pincushioned.

I was very smug watching this episode. Two of my major predicions were that: Melisandre will bring back Jon Snow (although most people thought that) and become much more likable and one of the Boltons will kill the other one (I didn't think that it would happen quite so unceremoniously though) both happened in the same episode.
His death will have impact in the sense that it releases him from his vows to the night's watch.
 

Fat Hippo

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evilthecat said:
That aside, and other than the odd stinky line of dialogue, it's been pretty fun so far. Even Dorne has been.. better, this season than last season (bad pussy!) So yeah, looking forward to see where it goes.
"Bad pussy" was my favorite part of the entire Dorne plot line last season. It also had...an effect on me, so that might be influencing my opinion.

As for the start of this season: they're certainly not wasting time in killing off characters. Which is good, this show desperately needs some focus. Much like the books, which they are no longer obligated to follow, so they can just kill whoever the fuck they like. And then they will hopefully be able to make some of the story strands weave together again. Arya needs to fucking get back to Westeros and start making shit happen with blind-person Daredevil powers or some shit. Snow should probably kill Ramsay and get that done with. The High Sparrow desperately needs a smackdown. Sand snakes need to eat the dust, etc. etc.
 

K12

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Politrukk said:
K12 said:
Politrukk said:
I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.
It would be an immensely cruel thing to do to bring back to life one of the most liked characters only to say "ha just kidding".

I have the opposite worry that Jon Snow coming back to live will mean that his "death" has relatively little impact on the overall story with him basically continuing along the path that he was taking before he got pincushioned.

I was very smug watching this episode. Two of my major predicions were that: Melisandre will bring back Jon Snow (although most people thought that) and become much more likable and one of the Boltons will kill the other one (I didn't think that it would happen quite so unceremoniously though) both happened in the same episode.
His death will have impact in the sense that it releases him from his vows to the night's watch.
... I'm not totally sure that it does you know.

The "I shall not end until my death" bit he gets around but the wording of the ending is:

"I pledge my life and honour to the night's watch for this night and all nights to come" which doesn't really let him off.

I'm sure it'll come up in the show though and really the reason he hasn't deserted is because he's loyal and honourable and stuff which could easily go out the window now that he got totally fucked over like that for doing the right thing.
 

Erttheking

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Adam Jensen said:
the silence said:
To support the post above me in one point: I thought Roose would kill Ramsay. Because that would have made a lot of sense.

Instead it's boring old wank.
Sure, because a character that's interesting to watch has killed a boring character who's only purpose was to betray the Starks and to be a father of a psychopath. And you thought he'd live longer than Ramsey?


I really don't get people on the internet these days. Everyone is so eager to be a hater and to look for flaws in everything. Especially if it's popular. Oh that really gets people going. Popularity must be hated. GoT is still a good show. The fact that most of you stuck around for 6 seasons pretty much proves it. People don't do that when they get bored. It's so easy to lose interest in a lousy show. Maybe GoT is not as good as the books, but that means nothing since it's still leagues ahead of most current shows.
Ramsay should've gotten his stupid ass killed a long time ago considering how impulsive he is, but no. He's gone from having occasional moments of brilliance and poor self control to being Ramsay Snow Wonder Boy who can do freaking anything. He should never have gotten the jump on his very cold and calculating father. Talk about popularity if you want, but at the end of the day it's bad writing. The day he dies is the day I become a very happy man.

People like to analyze things. I fail to see what's so bad about that. GoT is still a good show? No. Not really. I'm mainly watching it out of curiosity now, and partially bile fascination. It was hilarious watching the first two episodes of the seasons, because there's so much stuff from the books they cut out and are now trying to stuff back in, rhyme or reason be damned. Oh hey, there's Euron Greyjoy. Instead of him maybe arranging his brother's death, let's cut out all ambiguity and make it so that he most certainly did it. And let's make it so that Balon died around 3 books worth of material later than he should have. Also Dorne is going to war in the books, so lets make them do that in the show. Except in the books they're forming a powerful alliance and are being careful. Here, all the characters are either cardboard cut outs or dead or both. Also, the war with Yunaki is apparently happening, something that was given a lot of build up in the books, but in the show we just off handily mention that the Masters are back in power. After Dany left.

It's kind of laughable to watch them try and cram in so many storylines, when said storylines should have been reaching their high point around now. Guess trying to condense two books into one season was a bone headed idea. Wish someone would've told them that.
 

Erttheking

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RedDeadFred said:
The strength of the books was always that there weren't too many straight up evil characters. They're all varying degrees of grey. Ramsay and the show's portrayal of Joffrey really don't meet this standard.
Uh. Book Ramsay was as big of a monster as they came. The stuff he did to Reek, the stuff he did to his wife, murdering a man at arms, and then there's the bit where he hunted down naked women, raped them, and then if they didn't amuse him, flayed them alive.
 

snave

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Putting a spoiler in the title, then putting that in a big flashing graphic on the front page is a dick move.

Regarding the resurrection scene, the suspense was real for me. Game of Thrones is one of the few shows where an actual letdown could happen. Doubly so given the episode had already more than blown its load by that point. Finally, the biggest suspense, particularly when they zoomed in at the very end and you were sure they were going to bring him back was his eyes: would they be natural... or undead blue?
 

RedDeadFred

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erttheking said:
RedDeadFred said:
The strength of the books was always that there weren't too many straight up evil characters. They're all varying degrees of grey. Ramsay and the show's portrayal of Joffrey really don't meet this standard.
Uh. Book Ramsay was as big of a monster as they came. The stuff he did to Reek, the stuff he did to his wife, murdering a man at arms, and then there's the bit where he hunted down naked women, raped them, and then if they didn't amuse him, flayed them alive.
You're right. Ramsay is just as bad in the books. I suppose I'm more annoyed because of how much more focus is put on him. It's like they needed to keep Alfie Allen around so they basically turned his scenes into the torture porn that was only alluded to. The book showed us Theon after he'd already been transformed. Martin leaves a lot of it to your imagination as far as what must have happened to him to get to that point. This isn't really a current season issue though and you're right, Ramsay is a complete monster in both.
 

Erttheking

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RedDeadFred said:
erttheking said:
RedDeadFred said:
The strength of the books was always that there weren't too many straight up evil characters. They're all varying degrees of grey. Ramsay and the show's portrayal of Joffrey really don't meet this standard.
Uh. Book Ramsay was as big of a monster as they came. The stuff he did to Reek, the stuff he did to his wife, murdering a man at arms, and then there's the bit where he hunted down naked women, raped them, and then if they didn't amuse him, flayed them alive.
You're right. Ramsay is just as bad in the books. I suppose I'm more annoyed because of how much more focus is put on him. It's like they needed to keep Alfie Allen around so they basically turned his scenes into the torture porn that was only alluded to. The book showed us Theon after he'd already been transformed. Martin leaves a lot of it to your imagination as far as what must have happened to him to get to that point. This isn't really a current season issue though and you're right, Ramsay is a complete monster in both.
No argument there. I'm getting just sick of Ramsay Bolton Wonder Boy, who can do absolutely everything with his *In mocking voice* twenty good men.

But yes. Martin didn't shove every last horrible thing Ramsay did into our face. The show showed us just about everything. The raping, the flaying, the mauling with dogs, and a castration, something that I don't think the books even implied! Though granted plenty of fans still suspected that it had happened for obvious reasons.