Update: Reddit Suicide Lawsuit Is a Hoax

NinjaDeathSlap

Leaf on the wind
Feb 20, 2011
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I feel for him and his family, I really do...

But maybe the lesson here should be, if you're thinking about ending it all, do not reach out to the internet! Instead, perhaps seek the help of professionals!
 

Sylveria

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Nov 15, 2009
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Sis said:
These people were perhaps directly responsible for him taking his life. Getting Reddit to give up their information is the right thing to do. They definitely do not have to be allowed to be able to hide behind their anonymity.
Well this is good. What's next? If someone cuts me off and I give them the finger, then they get so mad they go home and beat their wife, am I an accessory to the assault?

Yep, lets blame 9 people saying mean things on the internet for this. Oh wait, wasn't he already fully committed to the idea of doing what he did before he even made his first post? Let's sue the owner of the building he jumped off of and the construction company that made the street/sidewalk he landed on. How about the people who made the clothes he was wearing when he did it?

This is certainly a "I don't want to live on this planet anymore." moment, but not because of the conduct of people on Reddit, but because of the conduct of the people who want to start assigning blame to everyone except the guy who decided the best solution to his issues was reenacting a scene from Lethal Weapon without the air mattress to land on. Oh, better sue the distributor of Lethal Weapon while we're at it, it gave him the idea probably.

Yeah, Drama does have consequences.. and this guy just wanted to go out on a dramatic note, same way a 16yr old girl who got stood up for prom would. Unless someone stands behind you and shoves, the only person responsible for you jumping off a building is you.
 

Aeonknight

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Apr 8, 2011
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Sis said:
These people were perhaps directly responsible for him taking his life. Getting Reddit to give up their information is the right thing to do. They definitely do not have to be allowed to be able to hide behind their anonymity.
I disagree. They were in no way shape or form responsible for what this idiot did. Suicide is a choice made by the individual to kill themself, no one put the gun in his hand, he did. And anybody who's been on the internet for more than a day knows you don't come here looking for encouragement.

You can't sue the internet or it's users for it being a window into human nature.
 

MrTub

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Mar 12, 2009
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Farther than stars said:
McMullen said:
If these people can be held responsible for causing a person's suicide, then so can landlords, banks, spouses, significant others, family members, schoolmates, or anyone else who can give a person a bad enough day that they make it their last.
And they are. Accessories to suicide are taken very seriously and with good reason. If we were to limit the act of killing, be it oneself or another person, to a mere physical process, then we wouldn't be able to prosecute people who order assassinations and the like. There is no pragmatic doubt in areas of legal matters, philosophy and psychology that socialogical incentives have as much to do with individual actions as the freedom of that individual.
But the bottom line is: if you're mentioned in a person's suicide note, then you could loose that same freedom for a very long time.
So lets say a bank evict you from your house cause you do not pay your loans and therefor the he/she commits suicide since he/she cannot stand being homeless and mention it in his suicide note.
Do you think the banks should be punished? since he/she wouldn't have committed suicide if he/she still had his/her house
 

Pat8u

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Apr 7, 2011
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blackriderrom said:
Trolling is a right.
If you're the kind of person that gets offended by an anonymous comment (expecting anonymous comments to be anything but offensive), you seriously have white people problems. Learn to shrug it off and deal with it. The Internet does not care about your drama and feelings, nor will it ever. No amount of legislation is ever going to change that. (It might make it go away if it forces all conversation to be unbearably polite, in which case people would simply troll more subtly, but with the same meaning.)

That aside, he was already intending to kill himself. And Reddit, like 4chan, has the kind of community that would easily tell you to blow your brains out. That should be obvious to anyone who frequents those places. The same applies to high school bullies, gang members and whatever other real life spiteful people you can think of, but you don't see them being sued for acting like they usually do.
look being depressed is not an emoitional state it is a physical state that you need medication for, these reddit users just added onto that state, it has nothing to do with white people problems 1: Because that isn't even a thing anymore i think you meant 1st world problems
2nd: He has no controll over the chems in his brain
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, I disagree with limiting it for this, hate speech, or any other reason. There are positive and negative aspects to everything, and in general the cost of an occasional incident like this one is well worth the benefits. I do not like the idea of including "exceptions" to the right to speak freely.

That said, you have to understand that claims of commiting suicide are oftentimes pleas for attention more than anything. It's easy to look at a situation like this retroactively and say "wow, this was wrong" due to someone actually killing themselves, but it entirely overlooks the very annoying tendency of people to claim that they are considering self destruction as a way of getting attention and inspiring pity.

To be entirely blunt, while it doesn't match every situation, most people who commit suicide don't generally walk around saying "I'm going to do it", typically they are spotted by massive mood changes, ending with a degree of peace, and behaviors like giving away their worldly possessions and acting in a fashion that shows them as having little or no concern for the future. In general nobody is going to be able to stop someone who is REALLY intent on offing themselves, which is why in many cases someone who wanders around with a giant "I'm going to kill myself, stop me" sign is actually looking for attention.

There are also cases of faux-suicide, like the person who downs a bottle of pills (slow acting, and capable of being pumped out of the system) knowing that there is help nearby, or people who get into a bathtub a short time before they know someone else will be around and slice their wrists the wrong way.

As I've said before in response to other situations (and yes I know I'm liable to get flamed/trolled again) the whole Internet "an hero" schtick exists for a reason. I typically won't heckle someone who is claiming they want to kill themselves, but at the same time I'm not going to give them any attention either (speaking for myself) it takes more than a declaration of intent by some guy on the Internet who I don't know to make me take it seriously, since the guy could be sitting there with a real-life case of troll face listening to people respond and get all worked up, and truthfully the odds of that are probably greater than the person actually offing themselves.

I do however understand the reason why people get annoying enough to say "shut up and do it already" given all the attention seeking emos out there. Truthfully I have to wonder how many of the people who responded negatively in this case did so from having been burned in the past by taking attention seekers seriously before their true colors were revealed.

As silly as this might sound, my advice for those that feel horrible depressed is to take Saint John's Wort. I won't say it works miracles but it helps a bit, I tend to work it in withmy own medication from time to time (and yes I've spoken to doctors before), placebo or not (debatable) it seems to help a little, and this is coming from a guy that actually does grapple with severe depression. That's about the closest to commentary in situtions like this that I am likely to make unless I know someone more than "this guy I might see in message forums once in a while".
 

Sylveria

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Nov 15, 2009
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Cobalt Lion said:
Well good. I hope the defendants lose their case. This kind of behavior is unacceptable and must be punished harshly and publicly.
I think you should be sued for wishing for them to lose their case. Now if they lose, you're responsible for it. You're also responsible for any social and financial troubles their families, individuals who were probably completely oblivious to these events are subject to.

Also, because I'm responding to you, you're responsible for all the actions I take from here on out. If I go kill myself because of reading your post, it's your fault, and my family can sue you for it. Maybe instead I'm upset and I go binge on McDonald's, get fat, and die of heart disease in 20 years, it's your fault and you should be held accountable.

None of this is my fault, by the way, I'm not responsible for my actions. You, however, are now.

That's what you want, right? Hope you can pay the legal fees and my medical bills, cause I'm on my way to get a dozen Triple Baconators as we speak and it's all your fault. Hey Escapaist, do you want to give me Cobalt Lion's personal info now so I can just get all the bills sent directly to him/her?
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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Suddenly that law in Arizona doesnt look quite as stupid.

though in all reality, I dont know what is going to happen other than reddit saying they banned the people from posting and issuing a public note that they do not condone this type of behavior and they are very disappointed in the people that did. the ex wife will bear all of the liability.

Hammartroll said:
thomaskattus said:
blackriderrom said:
Trolling is a right.
Being an asshole is not a right.
freedom of speech is a right, and it entails being an asshole
which is exactly why you can be sued for the distress a death threat causes you and likely how these people will be sued since theres a clear and evident result.
 

Pat8u

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Apr 7, 2011
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BlakBladz said:
This is interesting actually.

I believe that a human's life is only worth it's actions.
A man who kills himself isn't worth anything, and neither are people who provoke others. I hate jerks with a passion, online and in 'real life'...but I really can't pick a side here.
I do hope they get their comeuppance, and he's dead so there's nothing to worry about.
a man who commits suicide may not be commiting suicide becasuse he is sad but because he thinks he is sad, people who have everything going good for them can commit suicide because of their brain having something wrong with it.
 

Vaccine

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Feb 13, 2010
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Ergh, I hate when things like this pop up.
Both sides were fucking idiots, someone on the internet should know not to make threads like that from the start, you don't talk about something that serious on a public board that large, you talk to individuals, not a crowd.
On the other side reddit is just as stupid for instigating it, but it's not a reddit related issue, it's an internet related issue in general, if it was any large sort of forum-esq board it would've been the same result but put another name inserted where reddit would be.
 

coolkirb

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Jan 28, 2011
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It is a crime to advise someone to commit suicide. The internet is new and so are things like facebook and other social media. There is a problem we will face as new laws have to be made to deal with the new virtual world. Should these people be held accountable for their actions? Does being on the internet mean your not accountable for what you say? Is it really your right to be anonymous on the internet? Their are many questions and problems that need to be answered and as said as this is maybe it will prompt action on dealing with them.
 

Lethos

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Dec 9, 2010
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It's always interesting reading Escapist threads about a crime(?) that's been committed. It's like some primal spirit emerges in a percentage of the forum that demands blood.

Anyway, it's sad that the guy is dead and all, but I don't think people on Reddit, or his wife should be punished. His wife sounds like a *****, but I don't think she genuinely wanted him to kill himself, it's just speech. The Redditers were huge dicks, but it's not a crime to be a dick.
 

thirion1850

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Aug 13, 2008
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McMullen said:
Unfortunate death... check.

Community outrage... check.

Knee-jerk call for hastily-considered legislation... check.

Erosion of freedom... continuing.

If these people can be held responsible for causing a person's suicide, then so can landlords, banks, spouses, significant others, family members, schoolmates, or anyone else who can give a person a bad enough day that they make it their last.

Were these people assholes? Yes. Were they responsible for the man's death? No. The man was responsible for his own death. Suicide is a choice, and though the assholes contributed to the outcome of the choice, they cannot be held responsible for another man's choice. In a world gone as insane as some people here want it to be, if I was feeling spiteful enough I could just off myself and blame it on whoever I'm pissed at, and it would work.

Look, let's keep some perspective here. You're making the same mistake people often make with sensational deaths. If thousands die every year because of smoking or fatty foods, no one really gets worked up about it. If a couple thousand die in an unprecedented and so far unrepeated incident because of terrorism, then we panic so thoroughly that we start tossing out individual freedoms. Same insane principle at work here. Why don't you ban smoking for the sake of those thousands of people a year before tearing down internet privacy for the sake of the handful of people in an entire decade who, at the suggestion of trolls, take their own lives?
This. I can't emphasize this more - this entire post sums it up. Trolls and morons will always exist, but it's not that type scum that caused this man to end his life. Cruelty will persist and succeed in humanity's course regardless of what they do to try and stop it, but it's the shit we put up with daily that never gets blamed. Not to mention, the man supposedly received far more support than trolling, so as much as I hate to say this, as an adult, he should have had a bigger skin than to spot out a specific bunch of retards and head toe to toe with them whilst contemplating suicide. Especially on a place where crude sarcasm runs rampant.
 

Ashannon Blackthorn

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Sep 5, 2011
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See my view is this:

1) We don't know the whole story. Why did his wife say, "Fuck off an die already"? Was the man abusive? Prone to pulling this shit? "If you don't take me back I'll kill myself?" We don't know. This article is extremely one sided and I gurantee his sister will not say anything honest about any negative actions the man in question may have done. (and he might have done nothing, again we don't know)

2) If anyone should be blamed for this, the sister should look long and hard and ask herself, "why didn't I see this coming?" Most of the time when people are suicidal they drop hints. This lawsuit reeks of oppurtunistic money grabbing and guilt avoidence to me.

I want to know the entire story before I pass judgement, and I get the feeling the plaintiffs don't want the whole story out there...
 

shinigamimeijin

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Jan 15, 2011
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The way he acted before hand showed that he had a certain mindset right before hand : http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qoixk/a_lot_of_trolls_tonight/c3zcqay?context=3

If anything he shouldn't have gone to R/MR and should've gone here if anywhere on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/
Even reddit has its compassionate sides :\
 

New Frontiersman

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Feb 2, 2010
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blackriderrom said:
Trolling is a right.
No being an asshole to your fellow human beings is not a right, attempting to get a person to commit suicide it not a right.
blackriderrom said:
That aside, he was already intending to kill himself. And Reddit, like 4chan, has the kind of community that would easily tell you to blow your brains out. That should be obvious to anyone who frequents those places. The same applies to high school bullies, gang members and whatever other real life spiteful people you can think of, but you don't see them being sued for acting like they usually do.
Except that yeah high school bullies, gang members, and other people who do this sort of thing get sued all time and occasionally arrested. Just saying "well that's how they are" is not an excuse, these people online need to be aware that their actions online have real-world consequences and be held accountable for such.

Threeseventyfive said:
blackriderrom said:
^^^ THIS

It is a tragic story, but the Reddit users are not at fault for his death.

Doesn't "freedom of speech" mean anything anymore?
Actually their comments likely fall afoul of the tort of Intentional infliction of emotional distress [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_infliction_of_emotional_distress#Elements] and thus are exempt from free speech protections in the United States. For the same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded theater you can't yell jump towards a suicidal man. Whether or not the Reddit users were at fault for his death we don't know, that's what the suit will attempt to prove. So yeah they may well in fact be held accountable for their actions.

As for my opinion; I think what those people did is wrong and I don't think they should be able to hide behind the shield of anonymity, I think they should be held accountable for their actions and be brought up on civil or criminal charges. What they did is inexcusable
 

Kanatatsu

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Nov 26, 2010
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I am a lawyer and this lawsuit is absolutely insane. It should (will) be thrown out very quickly.

There is no legal basis for the theory that a bunch of internet trolls could be found liable for the death of a suicidal poster. There is no negligence, no tort (please do not cite the tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress, as the test for that is very clearly not met here).

It is perfectly legal to be an insensitive jackass on the internet.

Totally ridiculous case and the lawyer advancing this batshit theory should be ashamed.