Update: Richard Garriott: "Most Game Designers Really Just Suck"

[crystalsnow]

It's not the fucking game designers' fault that the games are shit, it's the consumers. We eat this shit up and continue to buy garbage games, rather than demanding change. The industry has no need to put out new ideas or innovation if the market isn't interested in it.

 

[Tiamat666]

Well, Richard did create [a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_VII:_The_Black_Gate"0]The Best RPG of All Time[/a], so I'm not going to rip on the megalomania this time.

 

[Frozengale]

He's such an amazing game designer, in fact he's so good that I don't actually recall ever playing one of his games.


That's talent right there.

You do realize the problem with saying that right? You not playing his games does not stop them from being good. It doesn't matter if I ever read Harry Potter or not, my not reading it does not change the content of the book for others.

If you're saying that you HAVE played his games but can't remember them because they are so forgettable then I suggest you rephrase your statement. As such it just makes you come off as ignorant.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

you come off as ignorant.

That's me


It's been 20 years since the guy made anything worth mentioning.

 

[veloper]

HA. Even LB's magnum opus featured rather shitty combat.

Ultima 7 was nice, but it only scores points for it's open world and feature richness. Fighting enemies in U7 was a dull clickfest.

It figures LB would think Molyneux a good designer. They are both all about ambitious ideas and weak excecution.

 

[ChaosReaver]

Oh for the love of god. Lazy game designers isn't the problem. It's an unstable market and the big publishers not willing to risk money on new games that they don't know will sell. Don't crap all over designers because you think of them as lazy, when that is not the case at all. Besides, there are only so many new things you can do with a game and keep it enjoyable.

Out of all the games This guy has put out, I think the only one I've heard of is City of Heroes, and even then I haven't played it. Now there probably are a few lazy designers out there, but saying all but a handful are? That's a dick move on his part.

 

[Frozengale]

It's not the fucking game designers' fault that the games are shit, it's the consumers. We eat this shit up and continue to buy garbage games, rather than demanding change. The industry has no need to put out new ideas or innovation if the market isn't interested in it.

The artist is not required to create crap just because the consumer will take it.

This is one of the points that Lord British is pointing out. Game Designers become lazy and don't care about pushing the medium, they are fine with keeping it in the same spot. While the consumer will consume it, they are not the ones who actually create the content.

If there is ever going to be any change it will depend on the Designer. The customer may or may not continue to consume content from that creator but the reaction of the customer can not change what the designer creates, it may influence later works but it won't change it. The designer must ultimately make the choice to create something interesting.

 

[razer17]

What was that? That sounds an awful lot like me pulling my Kickstarter pledge. Ah well, more money to spend on games made by game designers that 'suck'.

Totally in agreeance. I refuse to back such a cocky human being. Not to mention, he called Molyneux a great designer, and Fable to me is an incredibly lazy game. And the Ultima series had God knows how many iterations, which doesn't really take that much designing either, much like his MoH analogy.

Shroud of the Avatar seems interesting, but screw this guy.

 

[featherweight]

Yes, because basicly digitizing D&D is not at all like rehashing someone else's ideas.

My what a high horse you have my lord.

*Edited*-
for extra snark.

 

[Frozengale]

you come off as ignorant.

That's me


It's been 20 years since the guy made anything worth mentioning.

Perhaps, but that does not make him wrong.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

you come off as ignorant.

That's me


It's been 20 years since the guy made anything worth mentioning.

Perhaps, but that does not make him wrong.

Doesn't make him right either



It's easy to criticise others, talk is cheap.

 

[Frozengale]

you come off as ignorant.

That's me


It's been 20 years since the guy made anything worth mentioning.

Perhaps, but that does not make him wrong.

Doesn't make him right either



It's easy to criticise others, talk is cheap.

Says the one criticizing someone else while admitting they haven't played their games.

Yes, talk is very cheap indeed.

 

[Grottnikk]

Two words, Dicky, my boy...two words: Tabula Rasa.

You, too, have sucked at times. Don't worry, it's okay to be wrong.

What a knob

 

[Daystar Clarion]

you come off as ignorant.

That's me


It's been 20 years since the guy made anything worth mentioning.

Perhaps, but that does not make him wrong.

Doesn't make him right either



It's easy to criticise others, talk is cheap.

Says the man criticizing someone else while admitting they haven't played their games.

Yes, talk is very cheap indeed.

Criticising a man for criticising others isn't the same thing.

Or is it?

Maybe so.

I don't rightly know or care

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

Well, now I know why I always thought that the plot of Ultima felt like it was written by a high schooler. It's because it was!

 

[CosmoJoe]

I don't know, this coming from the guy who let ultima be ruined by ultima 8 and 9 is kind of ironic. Even as a old age ultima fan I can see he's a hot air balloon. This is not like the old days where you can make big budget games with like 10 people Garriot ...

I find the comment about making games with 10 people really interesting. I am in my 30's and grew up with games like The Bard's Tale, Ultima IV, etc. I think back to how different these games were from what there is today. The games back then had no tech or dazzle to hide behind; it was all about the gameplay. The barrier to entry was a lot higher. The games didn't hold your hands. There was a lot of trial and error, note-taking, etc. It took me a while to finish a lot of those games but the feeling when you did was very fulfilling.

You look at the games now, which take huge groups of people to put together. Lots of them are artists, 3D modelers, what have you. But yet you have to ask, compared to games like Ultima 7 or even earlier games, is there really that much more meaningful content? Some of the early Ultimas, as simplistic as their graphics were, had fairly large game worlds. I remember playing Ultima 8 with my roommate in college and it took us quite a while to finish it. Then I think about a more recent game, which I really liked - FEAR - which while being a totally different genre, was one I finished in a few days.

I guess what I am getting at is that I look at the games now, and think about the games I played growing up in the 80's and early 90's and I have to wonder if the quality of games has really gone up much, if at all. I think developers now have a much harder time not getting caught up in the flash, and the tech and game engines, and relying on those things to prop up flimsy gameplay.

 

[Alandoril]

I kinda agree with him. It's the homogenisation of the roles that is a huge problem. Instead of people being allowed to excel in one arena and really push the boat out in it, they have to spread themselves too thin and dabble in everything.

The other problem is that the only jobs you ever really see advertised the majority of the time are for coders and artists. What about EVERYTHING else that goes into making a game? That is the reason games to tend to have such poor stories, for example. The companies don't hire writers (and if they do it's from the same tiny circle) they just leave it to coders who have spare time to knock together some dialogue.

 

[RN7]

Garriott may have been harsh in declaration that there are few good designers, he did bring up a valid point. Most who want to and are successful in breaking into the industry do so with training that makes them better suited to roles such as programming, writing, or art design. However, being good at part of the design process does not mean you have the necessary training and skill to be a good overall designer, and like Garriott stated, there are too few options for one to study and train to become an actual designer as opposed to a programmer, or artist, or etc.

Granted, this is not taking into account several outside factors like team-size, demands from publishers, and the like.